Sylvan Bloodline, Eldritch Heritage, AC's, and a FAQ answer

[ShoulderPatch]

Hitting FAQ on this
Still seeing this discussed
I think the answer is in the rules already... though poorly worded
I think the answer is no, Sylvan is not valid with Eldritch Heritage
I also think we all think something about the issue, and it comes up enough the RAW isn't clear enough, so instead of discussing it let's just FAQ it

I bet total over 500-1000 posts have already been made about this issue, let's get it clarified and move on to something new.

To the Devs: The question is...
Can you use the Eldritch Heritage feat for a wildblood archtype bloodline, Specifically Sylvan, to gain the animal companion

I've got 10 platinum and a jade circlet that says "no", but even if I'm wrong at least the question will stop being asked.

[Mojorat]

Your going to see this discussion die down because there is a way to get an ac through a different rout. From my view though there is a segment of the boards that selectively reads rules. Really its an archetype and probably isn't going to be faqed if it has not been already.

[ShoulderPatch]

# of people who hit FAQ > opinions of people who post in a thread with their opinion about an issue.

Questions asked in a short form > multi page debates.

Hit FAQ if you want.
Less than 2 hours in, already at 5 FAQs, 15-20 often gets answered (eventually).

Don't hit FAQ if you don't want.
If enough don't, it won't get answered.

Easier than riding a bike.

[+5 Toaster]

Owen from super genius games wrote the feat, and he mentioned in another thread that he didn't even know about the wild bloodlines when he wrote it. he said he'd be ok with it, but the sylvan one is definitely an issue.

[blackbloodtroll]

There are a number of places mentioning gaining the bloodline powers from another source.

If it isn't this feat, then what source?

[gourry187]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

There are a number of places mentioning gaining the bloodline powers from another source.

If it isn't this feat, then what source?

there are two feats in Faiths and Philosophies ...

Pathfinder Player Companion: Faiths & Philosophies

Nature Soul
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Knowledge (nature)
checks and Survival checks.

Animal Ally
Prerequisites: Nature Soul, character level 4th,
Benefit: You gain an animal companion as if you were
a druid of your character level –3 from the following
list: badger, bird, camel, cat (small), dire rat, dog, horse,
pony, snake (viper), or wolf.

found in this thread

thread

[Michael Sayre]

gourry187 wrote:

blackbloodtroll wrote:

There are a number of places mentioning gaining the bloodline powers from another source.

If it isn't this feat, then what source?

there are two feats in Faiths and Philosophies ...

****

found in this thread

thread

That has nothing to do with BBT's question. He was talking about gaining a Bloodline, not gaining an animal companion.

That being said, I think the real answer to BBT's question is that there was some forward thinking design involved when they mentioned gaining bloodlines from other sources. A big one I see coming is the new Bloodrager class from the Advnaced Class Guide. I imagine he'll probably have bloodlines and those references will apply.

On the subject of whether Eldritch Heritage can/should work with Sylvan- I think that RAW prevents this. You can't take an archetype without taking all of its abilities, and you don't actually have all of the abilities the archetype replaces. Moreover, the specific Wildblooded option in question, Sylvan, has a Bloodline power that is both a bloodline power and an Arcana, and you cannot gain an Arcana with Eldritch Heritage. Moreover, archetypes have to be taken at 1st level and you canot take Eldritch Heritage at first level. All of that combine with the fact that Wildblooded archetypes aren't even actual bloodlines makes this a no-go for me.
For the people who don't think it's a big deal and should be allowed even if it isn't truly RAW:
That particular combination is involved in a lot of awkward gray/completely outside the rules areas, things like grabbing the Boon Cmpanion feat and throwing on some Robes of Arcane Heritage to boost your companion to character level +3. So you now have an animal companion at your level =3 drawn from the unrestricted druid list. What Paizo did decide was balance, was a Ranger progression animal companion drawn from the ranger specific list of critters as Gourry posted above, a combo that can't be boosted past character level and doesn't include any of the most powerful animal companions. I think that gives an indicator of the baseline of what is/is not an acceptable gain for cost, and the Eldritch Heritage bit definitely exceeds that.

[gourry187]

my apologies, I was under the impression it was regarding how to get the Sylvan Bloodline power which grants an animal companion.

That is after all part of the original topic

[Michael Sayre]

gourry187 wrote:

my apologies, I was under the impression it was regarding how to get the Sylvan Bloodline power which grants an animal companion.

That is after all part of the original topic

No worries, I just thought I'd jump in and point it out before BBT got really grumpy and went on one of his infamous rants :)

[blackbloodtroll]

Infamous? Well, at least I am remembered.

Anyways, I was referring to Wildblooded Bloodlines gained through Eldritch Heritage, which is the core of the topic.

[ShoulderPatch]

Yup, the idea here was to K.I.S.S. by
A) Get some FAQ requests (19 and counting in < 48hrs isn't bad)
B) Phrase it in a simple question (Kept it short and specific for a reason)
Let the Devs respond if they will

If people want lengthier discussions on It literally dozens of threads already cover the topic. This is about trying to follow the FAQ format the Devs said they prefer and see what happens.

[Azten]

I would say no, because the animal companion is also a Bloodline Arcana, and Eldrtich Heritage does not give you those.

[Nefreet]

*casts Raise Thread*

I'm normally not the type to bring back a thread from almost a year ago, but I have a friend in PFS that really wants an answer to this exact question. For the record I told him it doesn't work, as I believe that the Sylvan "mutated" Bloodline is a class feature of the Wildblooded archetype, and not its own Bloodline, but he thinks that Eldritch Heritage should still work nonetheless.

And also for the record, it does appear that opinions are varied on this topic:

Sylvan wildbloodline and Eldritch Heritage: Animal companion at -5 levels?
Eldritch Heritage and Sylvan Bloodline
Sorcerer Dip, Eldritch Heritage, and Sylvan Bloodline

In my search I found a response from JJ (read: not a rules guy) that, although he's not SKR, SRM, or JB, was the most "official" answer I could find:

James Jacobs wrote:

FiddlersGreen wrote:

Are the wildblooded bloodlines bloodlines in their own right? Would you be able to select wildblooded bloodlines with the Eldritch Heritage feats and would a wildblooded sorcerer be able to utilise a Robe of Arcane Heritage?

No, they aren't. That's why they're not listed as bloodlines, but instead listed as archetypes. Things like Eldritch Heritage and that robe would work off of the associated non-mutated bloodline's rules, and would likely need your GM's adjudication to clear up problems should they arise.

An FAQ to finally put this to rest would be nice. With 37 hits as of now, that's 37 more than I'd have if I started a new thread.

[reyyvin]

ShoulderPatch wrote:

Hitting FAQ on this

Still seeing this discussed
I think the answer is in the rules already... though poorly worded
I think the answer is no, Sylvan is not valid with Eldritch Heritage
I also think we all think something about the issue, and it comes up enough the RAW isn't clear enough, so instead of discussing it let's just FAQ it

I bet total over 500-1000 posts have already been made about this issue, let's get it clarified and move on to something new.

To the Devs: The question is...
Can you use the Eldritch Heritage feat for a wildblood archtype bloodline, Specifically Sylvan, to gain the animal companion

I've got 10 platinum and a jade circlet that says "no", but even if I'm wrong at least the question will stop being asked.

Actually, this HAS been answered in an FAQ:

http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fz#v5748eaic9rai

here are the rules for wildblooded:

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateMagic/spellcastingClassOptions/s orcerer.html#_wildblooded-%28archetype%29

here are the rules for archetypes:

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/classArchetypes.html

and here's eldrich heritage:

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateMagic/ultimateMagicFeats.html#_e ldritch-heritage

Wildblooded counts as a class archetype; in order to take an archetype, you must be a member of that class.

As an archetype, Wildblooded also requires you to swap out class features; if you do not have the ability to "eventually" gain those class features, you cannot swap them out (assuming no level limit... we'll go by the assumption that it is possible to gain 20 levels in any class you join/multi-class into). Wildblooded also states that you have a mutated version of a bloodline. In the case of Sylvan, it is Fey.

For Sylvan, in particular, you need to replace your bloodline Arcana, level 1 sorcerer bloodline power, and level 15 sorcerer bloodline power, when you get them.

The Eldrich heritage simply gives you access to a bloodline power. It does not count as levels in the sorcerer class, nor grant you a bloodline Arcana. It also specifies that you cannot select a bloodline you already have.

Taken together, in order to take Sylvan, you must
a) have Fey bloodline
b) be able to swap out your Fey bloodline arcana, plus level 1 and 15 bloodline powers (when you get them).
c) be a sorcerer to select the archetype.
d) cannot select the same bloodline with Eldrich Heritage.

This also means you cannot use EH to have Fey and Sylvan

It is very clear this is not allowed by RAW. This only works if in a home game where DM basically will give you a bloodline arcana AND a level 1 bloodline power for the price of a feat.

[Michael Sayre]

Reyyvin's interpretation had always been mine as well.

[Nefreet]

That FAQ only concerns multiclassing. Using it we can only discern that the Crossblooded and Wildblooded archetypes cannot be taken together. That's it. It says nothing about how to treat Wildblooded Bloodlines, or Bloodlines in general.

(I'm having to play Devil's Advocate for my friend, since he doesn't post on the forums. You needn't convince me, but I'm looking for arguments to convince him)

From his POV, he sees "Sylvan Bloodline". Eldritch Heritage reads, "Select one sorcerer bloodline".

How can I tell him that those two don't equate to the same thing?

[reyyvin]

Nefreet wrote:

That FAQ only concerns multiclassing. Using it we can only discern that the Crossblooded and Wildblooded archetypes cannot be taken together. That's it. It says nothing about how to treat Wildblooded Bloodlines, or Bloodlines in general.

(I'm having to play Devil's Advocate for my friend, since he doesn't post on the forums. You needn't convince me, but I'm looking for arguments to convince him)

From his POV, he sees "Sylvan Bloodline". Eldritch Heritage reads, "Select one sorcerer bloodline".

How can I tell him that those two don't equate to the same thing?

No worries Nef. Please forward this to your friend.

That FAQ does not concern multi-classing. It concerns taking multiple archetypes together at the same time. Here is the FAQ:

"No, because the archetype rules say none of the alternate class features can replace or alter the same class feature from the class as another alternate class feature. Because the crossblooded and wildblooded sorcerer archetypes both alter the bloodline arcana and bloodline powers, they aren't compatible archetypes."

This clearly spells out that both Crossblooded and Wildblooded are archetypes. This is where the problem is. Where does it allow you to take an archetype of a class you have not selected?

Second, for the Eldrich Heritage Feat, please read the entire feat. "Benefit: Select one sorcerer bloodline. You must have Skill focus in the class skill that bloodline grants to a sorcerer at 1st level (for example, Heal for the celestial bloodline). This bloodline cannot be a bloodline you already have. You gain the first-level bloodline power for the selected bloodline. For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer. You do not gain any of the other bloodline abilities."

It does not give you levels in sorcerer or ANY other bloodline abilities. It only gives you what it says: a level 1 bloodline power.

Please read the text for the Sylvan bloodline:

"Bloodline Arcana: See bloodline powers.

Bloodline Powers: Your magic shows a kinship to that of the beast-talkers and shapechanger fey.

Animal Companion (Ex): You gain an animal companion. Your effective druid level for this ability is equal to your sorcerer level – 3 (minimum 1st). This bloodline power counts as your bloodline arcana and also replaces laughing touch."

The Animal Companion ability replaces BOTH the bloodline arcana as well as the level 1 bloodline power. Even if Wildblooded were not an archetype, you still could not gain this with Eldrich Heritage since you do not have a Fey bloodline arcana to swap out.

----

The rest of the FAQ talks about how it would be allowed by DM prerogative. For PFS, that isn't allowed, but in a home game, go for it. As a DM, I WOULD allow Wildblooded to not count as an archetype in my home game, since I personally do not believe it should be an archetype.

That said, I would NOT allow Sylvan for Eldrich Heritage since the animal companion itself replaces both the level 1 bloodline power as well as the arcana. I would house rule it taking a 2 feats, since it is clearly a more powerful option (1 for the arcana and 1 for the bloodline power). I have several characters with pets... action economy alone is almost like having 2 characters, albeit one with more limited options

[Nicos]

You can totally take the Animal companion with just two feats though (animal ally), not sure what would be the problem with taking it using eldrith heritage.

[Nefreet]

reyyvin wrote:

Animal Companion (Ex): You gain an animal companion. Your effective druid level for this ability is equal to your sorcerer level – 3 (minimum 1st). This bloodline power counts as your bloodline arcana and also replaces laughing touch."

The Animal Companion ability replaces BOTH the bloodline arcana as well as the level 1 bloodline power. Even if Wildblooded were not an archetype, you still could not gain this with Eldrich Heritage since you do not have a Fey bloodline arcana to swap out.

I like this one the most. I'll try that.

[Nicos]

reyyvin wrote:

That said, I would NOT allow Sylvan for Eldrich Heritage since the animal companion itself replaces both the level 1 bloodline power as well as the arcana. I would house rule it taking a 2 feats, since it is clearly a more powerful option (1 for the arcana and 1 for the bloodline power). I have several characters with pets... action economy alone is almost like having 2 characters, albeit one with more limited options

You already can have an animal companion using two feats, like the two feats you need to have eldritch heritage. AND, eldritch heritage actually give you a weaker enemy.

[reyyvin]

Nicos wrote:

You can totally take the Animal companion with just two feats though (animal ally), not sure what would be the problem with taking it using eldrith heritage.

a) We're talking about RAW. It doesn't work.

b) when we talk about balance, Animal Ally is nothing close to a full selection animal companion.

If you just want a horse, take Animal Ally. The other options are also pretty weak.

Sylvan bloodline gives you access to the full druid range of animal companions - which are generally a MUCH more powerful option.

Melee on Warhorse: better mobility for rider and some damage.
Melee on Tiger/velociraptor: vicious and brutal. Probably better then the rider.
Melee on Stegosaurus/Elephant: Huge damage and AC tank, probably better then the rider.

There's a reason that classes granting AC levels only stack for options shared by both lists: some are more powerful then others.

[Nicos]

reyyvin wrote:

Nicos wrote:

You can totally take the Animal companion with just two feats though (animal ally), not sure what would be the problem with taking it using eldrith heritage.

a) We're talking about RAW. It doesn't work.

b) when we talk about balance, Animal Ally is nothing close to a full selection animal companion.

If you just want a horse, take Animal Ally. The other options are also pretty weak.

Sylvan bloodline gives you access to the full druid range of animal companions - which are generally a MUCH more powerful option.

Melee on Warhorse: better mobility for rider and some damage.
Melee on Tiger/velociraptor: vicious and brutal. Probably better then the rider.
Melee on Stegosaurus/Elephant: Huge damage and AC tank, probably better then the rider.

There's a reason that classes granting AC levels only stack for options shared by both lists: some are more powerful then others.

a) THere is no RAW. THe FAQ do not talk about Eldritch heritage and the words of JJ, as good as his advice are, are not official FAQ:

b) When talking about balance you have to consider that tiger and that stegosaurus are at -5 level.

[reyyvin]

Nicos wrote:

a) THere is no RAW. THe FAQ do not talk about Eldritch heritage and the words of JJ, as good as his advice are, are not official FAQ:

b) When talking about balance you have to consider that tiger and that stegosaurus are at -5 level.

Nicos wrote:

reyyvin wrote:

That said, I would NOT allow Sylvan for Eldrich Heritage since the animal companion itself replaces both the level 1 bloodline power as well as the arcana. I would house rule it taking a 2 feats, since it is clearly a more powerful option (1 for the arcana and 1 for the bloodline power). I have several characters with pets... action economy alone is almost like having 2 characters, albeit one with more limited options

You already can have an animal companion using two feats, like the two feats you need to have eldritch heritage. AND, eldritch heritage actually give you a weaker enemy.

In your version, for 2 feats, you either get a weak AC at class level -3 OR a choice of any AC at class level -5. Easy choice to make, since your next feat (in either case) is Boon Companion.

Either that, or you're already a druid and trying to combine the levels. In that case, 2x(class level)-5 is completely broken for something deadly like a tiger or allosaurus.

Having a Horse or dog with 2x(class levels)-5... still underwhelming.

I pointed out the RAW in my above posts. scroll up a bit and refute it. If you can show me any place in the rules that allows you to take a class archetype without being a member of that class, then I'll change my opinion. The FAQ and Wildblooded are very clear that Wild-blooded is a class archetype that modifies a bloodline, not a bloodline in itself.

[reyyvin]

reyyvin wrote:

Nicos wrote:

a) THere is no RAW. THe FAQ do not talk about Eldritch heritage and the words of JJ, as good as his advice are, are not official FAQ:

b) When talking about balance you have to consider that tiger and that stegosaurus are at -5 level.

Nicos wrote:

reyyvin wrote:

That said, I would NOT allow Sylvan for Eldrich Heritage since the animal companion itself replaces both the level 1 bloodline power as well as the arcana. I would house rule it taking a 2 feats, since it is clearly a more powerful option (1 for the arcana and 1 for the bloodline power). I have several characters with pets... action economy alone is almost like having 2 characters, albeit one with more limited options

You already can have an animal companion using two feats, like the two feats you need to have eldritch heritage. AND, eldritch heritage actually give you a weaker enemy.

In your version, for 2 feats, you either get a weak AC at class level -3 OR a choice of any AC at class level -5. Your next feat is probably Boon Companion. Level 7 tiger vs level 9 horse/dog at character level 9, easy choice to make.

Either that, or you're already a druid and trying to combine the levels. In that case, 2x(class level)-5 is completely broken for something deadly like a tiger or allosaurus. At character level 9, this means a level 13 tiger

Having a Horse or dog with 2x(class levels)-3... means a level 15 horse/dog at character level 9. Powerful, but still underwhelming.

I pointed out the RAW in my above posts. scroll up a bit and refute it. If you can show me any place in the rules that allows you to take a class archetype without being a member of that class, then I'll change my opinion. The FAQ and Wildblooded are very clear that Wild-blooded is a class archetype that modifies a bloodline, not a bloodline in itself.

[ryric]

There is no precedent for a feat that grants access to a class feature being able to give an archetype modified version of said feature. "Sylvan" is not a bloodline on its own - the bloodline is Fey. A wildblooded archetype sorcerer who selects the fey bloodline has their bloodline stuff changed to the sylvan stuff. That's the only way to get at those abilities.

Saying you can take archetype altered abilities with Eldritch Heritage is equivalent to claiming you can take Steady Aim or Up Close and Deadly with Amateur Gunslinger. Those are 1st level deeds for gunslinger archetypes, but they are not available without taking the archetype.

[Nicos]

reyyvin wrote:

In your version, for 2 feats, you either get a weak AC at class level -3 OR a choice of any AC at class level -5. Easy choice to make, since your next feat (in either case) is Boon Companion.

Either that, or you're already a druid and trying to combine the levels. In that case, 2x(class level)-5 is completely broken for something deadly like a tiger or allosaurus.

Having a Horse or dog with 2x(class levels)-5... still underwhelming.

A wolf -3 is better than a tiger -5. And boon companion, well taking 5 feat for a -2 level animal companion do not seem to have balance problems at all.

Not sure about the druid thing though.

reyyvin wrote:

I pointed out the RAW in my above posts. scroll up a bit and refute it. If you can show me any place in the rules that allows you to take a class archetype without being a member of that class, then I'll change my opinion. The FAQ and Wildblooded are very clear that Wild-blooded is a class archetype that modifies a bloodline, not a bloodline in itself.

THe FAQ do not talk about elditch heritage at all.

[reyyvin]

Nicos wrote:

THe FAQ do not talk about elditch heritage at all.

Nobody is disputing that the FAQ does not specifically address Eldritch Heritage. The FAQ clarifies that Wildblooded is an archetype, not a bloodline. Sylvan bloodline is a Wildblooded archetype of the Fey bloodline.

Where does Eldritch heritage allow you to take a class archetype?

Eldrich Heritage gives access to a level 1 bloodline power, it does not give you the bloodline.

[Kydeem de'Morcaine]

reyyvin wrote:

Nicos wrote:

THe FAQ do not talk about elditch heritage at all.

Nobody is disputing that the FAQ does not specifically address Eldritch Heritage. The FAQ clarifies that Wildblooded is an archetype, not a bloodline. Sylvan bloodline is a Wildblooded archetype of the Fey bloodline.

Where does Eldritch heritage allow you to take a class archetype?

Eldrich Heritage gives access to a level 1 bloodline power, it does not give you the bloodline.

The reasoning I have heard is that:

Yes, wildblooded is an archtype of sorcerer that allows a sorcerer to take these other bloodlines that are slightly different from the normal bloodlines. The sorcerer archtype. The bloodlines are not an archtype they are a bloodline allowed by the arctype. But they are still bloodlines. Eldritch Heritage does not give you sorcerer (archtype or not). So Eldritch Heritage allows you to get the powers of a bloodline. That's how it works.

Not sure I agree with that reasoning, but that is how it was presented to me.

[reyyvin]

Kydeem de'Morcaine wrote:

reyyvin wrote:

Nicos wrote:

THe FAQ do not talk about elditch heritage at all.

Nobody is disputing that the FAQ does not specifically address Eldritch Heritage. The FAQ clarifies that Wildblooded is an archetype, not a bloodline. Sylvan bloodline is a Wildblooded archetype of the Fey bloodline.

Where does Eldritch heritage allow you to take a class archetype?

Eldrich Heritage gives access to a level 1 bloodline power, it does not give you the bloodline.

The reasoning I have heard is that:

Yes, wildblooded is an archtype of sorcerer that allows a sorcerer to take these other bloodlines that are slightly different from the normal bloodlines. The sorcerer archtype. The bloodlines are not an archtype they are a bloodline allowed by the arctype. But they are still bloodlines. Eldritch Heritage does not give you sorcerer (archtype or not). So Eldritch Heritage allows you to get the powers of a bloodline. That's how it works.

Not sure I agree with that reasoning, but that is how it was presented to me.

With that logic, any sorcerer can access Wildblooded bloodlines without taking the archetype. FAQ with Wildblooded + Crossblooded is pretty clear this doesn't work.

The only way to get access to the wildblooded is through the archetype. Only the wildblooded archetype gives access to the "mutated version" of a bloodline. They don't exist in the rules outside of the archetype.

It is like arguing that if you get a class feature with a similar name from class A, you can swap it with an archetype feature of Class B. Example, Sohei monk (archetype) gets weapon training at level 6. So... I can swap that with... Armored Defense from the Fighter Armor Master.

[thorin001]

The FAQ for contradicts the FAQ for Qinggong/other archetype, at least for optional archetype power stacking.

Qinngong: When you have a choice you must take the power from the non variable archetype.

Wildblood/Crossblood: Having a choice you means cannot take that combination.

[reyyvin]

thorin001 wrote:

The FAQ for contradicts the FAQ for Qinggong/other archetype, at least for optional archetype power stacking.

Qinngong: When you have a choice you must take the power from the non variable archetype.

Wildblood/Crossblood: Having a choice you means cannot take that combination.

Not correct. With Wildblooded, you must swap out each option. In all cases, this changes the blooline arcana. With Crossblooded, you gain the bloodline arcana of both bloodlines.

Both of these archetypes modify the bloodline arcana. You cannot take an archetype that modifies the same ability. This is a general rule that applies UNLESS another rule/FAQ specifically breaks the rule (like the Quiggong you mentioned).

The remainder of the FAQ describes how a DM should handle the combination if they house rule the combination into their game - which, in essence, then follows the general rules for the Quiggong archetype (choice of abilities at each level).

In the case of the Quiggong, it does not force the character to swap out ANY monk abilities. A monk could be a quiggong and swap NONE of the abilities. Do to this, Paizo has ruled a specific exception to the general rule to allow Quiggong to combine with other archetypes, with the caveat that they cannot choose to swap out abilities gained by their other archetypes, as these abilities are forced changes by the other archetypes, AND that the character cannot choose to gain back any standard monk ability swapped out by these archetypes.

By issuing the FAQ, Paizo simply confirmed that neither Wildblooded nor Crossblooded would gain the exception that Quiggong was allowed.

While I'm not familiar with every single archetype in the game, there are a handful of other exemptions, either stated directly or indirectly. A Monk may take multiple Vows (they all replace Still Mind). An Oathbound Paladin may make multiple Oaths, as long as their only overlap is Code of Conduct and Spells (since that is part of the base archetype); they are still not allowed to overlap any other class feature, either with multiple Oaths or any other archetype. For both of these, this is stated directly in the Archetype. Arcane Discoveries are not an Archetype in itself, but alternate feat replacement options.

[Iammars]

Qinggong and Crossblooded are two archetypes that work differently.

Crossblooded replaces every bloodline ability with a choice between 2.

Qinggong gives you the choice as to which abilities you want to replace. If you don't replace something, there is a default. There is no "default" with Crossblooded.

[James Risner]

Qinggong works different than every other archetype to date.

It allows an array of options that can be swapped out but doesn't dictate when or which thing is swapped. So until a choice is made, nothing is modified.

Every other archetype requires choices to be made, adds to something or removes from something.

[ShoulderPatch]

Bumping this as I see it came up being debated in another thread again.

I do think by RAW it is already not allowed, not only for the Sylvan as an archtype discussion but also because Eldritch Heritage does not give you the Arcana and it states it counts as an Arcana. The wording of the bloodline stops you. You can't take it as you can't make that trade in. [Just as you can't stack two archtypes that change the same power because one has already taken it away before it could be traded for the other]. If you've got a quarter and something costs a dollar twenty five you can't buy it just because you have the quarter and technically that's part of it.

However as it will just not die here, i do acknowledge the wording has a tiny bit of ambiguity and it's just too tempting of an option (esp. now post "Boon Companion") for people to not keep trying to go after without someone on high saying no, Bump.

[Pathfinder Design Team]

ShoulderPatch wrote:

Hitting FAQ on this

Still seeing this discussed
I think the answer is in the rules already... though poorly worded
I think the answer is no, Sylvan is not valid with Eldritch Heritage
I also think we all think something about the issue, and it comes up enough the RAW isn't clear enough, so instead of discussing it let's just FAQ it

I bet total over 500-1000 posts have already been made about this issue, let's get it clarified and move on to something new.

To the Devs: The question is...
Can you use the Eldritch Heritage feat for a wildblood archtype bloodline, Specifically Sylvan, to gain the animal companion

I've got 10 platinum and a jade circlet that says "no", but even if I'm wrong at least the question will stop being asked.

FAQed

FAQ wrote:

Archetypes and Gaining Powers: If an archetype like wildblooded sorcerer grants new class features like bloodline powers, domain powers, or the like, if I don’t have that archetype, can I use feats like Eldritch Heritage or Believer’s Boon and choose the powers granted by the archetype.

No. These powers only exist for the archetypes that grant them. This is particularly important because in some cases, the archetype might trade out non-parallel features to gain those powers. For example, a fey sorcerer with the wildblooded archetype trades out both her bloodline arcana and her 1st-level power to gain a new 1st-level power, but a non-sorcerer using a feat to gain a 1st-level power never had the bloodline arcana to begin with.

[Chess Pwn]

So if I am a wildblooded sorcerer can I eldrich heritage for another wildblooded bloodline?

[James Risner]

Chess Pwn wrote:

So if I am a wildblooded sorcerer can I eldrich heritage for another wildblooded bloodline?

No, because you don't have "that" archetype, you have your archetype for a different Wildblooded bloodline.

[Talonhawke]

Finally an answer to this question thanks guys.