reyyvin's page

I would really like this to work with the Close Weapon Group, because although it would impose a minor feat tax, it would let Brawler[ACG] and Monk characters use Unarmed Strike damage with Brass Knuckles[like many think they should be able to do].

That said, Natural Weapons are only found in the Natural Weapon fighter group, unfortunately.

Thread Necro...

An Unarmed strike counts as both a manufactured and a natural attack

weapon focus (Unarmed Strike)
Feral Combat Training (Unarmed Strike)
Martial Versatility (FCT)

would this allow you to use monk damage (and unarmed effects) with weapons in the "Monk" weapon group... which include Cestus and brass knuckles?

Aye that's the official ruling I'm looking for is that if it works, and I have 3 attacks in a round (claw/claw/bite) and if each one does damage then by the end of this round it would be +3 and would bypass that level of DR.

There seems to be so much variation in interpretation among individuals that I was just wanting an official ruling one way or the other. Don't want to spend that much gold on something that is going to vary a lot from table to table.

It doesn't work like that. The text of Furyborn says:

"Each time the wielder damages an opponent with the weapon, its enhancement bonus increases by +1 when making attacks against that opponent (to a maximum total enhancement bonus of +5)."

They use 'it'... aka, the weapon. If they were referring to the wielder, they would have said him/her (or other gender pronoun). Each time the weapon damages the target, the weapon's enhancement bonus increases. If you want to change the wording to "the wielder's enhancement bonus increases" with every attack, you have a property that does nothing: the wielder cannot have an enhancement bonus, however, a weapon can. Natural attacks, including Unarmed Strikes, are weapons.

We also know that each natural attack is a separate weapon: if you have a claw/claw/bit, you would need 3 castings of a spell like Magic Fang to affect all 3.

Therefore, the Furyborn property would be enchanting each natural weapon separately, just like every other weapon property on an AoMF does. If you have 'flaming' property, you can't make it affect only the bite; it is all attacks or none.

Remember, the AoMF is not a weapon; it is a Wonderous Item that allows you to apply weapon properties to your natural attacks (including Unarmed strike).

Just like Bracers of Armor can add Armor properties, the bracers themselves don't count as any armor type. For example, you cannot add Brawling property to BoA, because the bracers are not Light Armor.

As to Constant vs activated magic items in wild shape... I recently learned (through my own lack of reading) that items like Corrosive property are ACTIVATED items. It takes a standard action to 'flame on' your sword, fists, or whatever with your flaming weapon/amulet ("Upon Command" = command word activated).

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/magicItems/weapons.html#_weapons-flaming

Compare with Holy, which does [i]not[/] require an activation: holy is always active and cannot be shut off. My Animal Companion couldn't use the Corrosive Amulet (in PFS, ACs are only allowed to activate Ioun Stones, if their Int is 3+), so I bought him a Holy one.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/magicItems/weapons.html#_weapons-holy

Speaking of lack of reading, I reverse my position on adding Keen to an AoMF. By RAW, you CAN put Keen on an AoMF. I just reread the entry and it says "Alternatively, this amulet can grant melee weapon special abilities, so long as they can be applied to unarmed attacks." Emphasis mine. In the "Unarmed attacks" section, it lists "armed" unarmed attacks include natural weapons. They can be slashing or piercing, so Keen is a legal option. Now, as to whether or not it would work with a blunt unarmed strike... I'd have to go with "no;" it would work fine with Tiger/Boar/Snake doing piercing or slashing damage.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/combat.html#_unarmed-attacks

I used Alain, Lem and a Giant Enemy Crab in another thread, so that is what I will use here. Say Alain is mounted and Lem stands between himself and the Crab. Normally, the charge rules state you can't declare a charge, because Lem is in the way.

However, as we all know, in Pathfinder, specific > general. The specific rules of overrun would allow Alain to charge the Crab, making an overrun attempt during the charge, which Lem would simply avoid, and continue on to the Crab to show off how BadA*s he is.

Ok... from my understanding, this is how it works:

Overrun as a standard action during movement = move your speed, any direction, make overrun during the move. This allows you to move to a different position before you move for the overrun, like if you want to overrun a guy around a corner or you are moving through difficult terrain.

Overrun as part of a charge: you move up to 2x your movement, in a straight line, follow normal charge rules (no difficult terrain, no hindered movement, 10' minimum move, closest square, etc),and you get +2 hit, which adds to your CMB, and -2 AC as you try and move through the guy in the way. The target of the 'charge' is the guy you use the Overrun on, but you don't make an attack roll (just the Overrun CMB). Basically, it lets you do the overrun in place of the attack (like a charging Trip/Sunder/Disarm).

Overrun with Charge Through: This is what you're doing with your example above. Alain will overrun Lem as you move towards the crab; Alain follows normal charge rules, except he can overrun 1 guy in his way (Lem). Technically Lem can't avoid the overrun (since you need Improved Overrun to take Charge Through), but an easy House rule if you want Overrun to do this (Normally, you would want Dragon Style to charge through allies). If Alain succeeds on his Overrun, then he continues to move towards the crab and makes his attack against the Crab (+2 hit, -2 AC, and I'm assuming Lance and/or Spirited Charge bonus).

Problem with Charge Through: both rider and mount may need to take it, but I'm not completely sure here. Many of the mounted feats are an ugly gray area.

Golgathar wrote:

Thanks for all of the advice! That really helps to clear things up for me and to rethink my build.

Unless the Eidolon has a weapon feat (Simple Weapon Prof, Martial Weapon Prof in a SINGLE weapon, Exotic Weapon Prof in a SINGLE weapon), it is not proficient in weapons. Note that one of the evolutions will add Simple Weapon Proficiency.

correct... the evolution adds simple, which can be upgraded to martial. You are better off simply spending a Feat to get proficiency in 1 weapon (like a light weapon) and using it in all hands. Just remember that lots of weapons will cost a lot of money, even if they are of low power (+1)... make sure you have a good mix of special materials present to bypass DR

Try an immovable rod. You could deactivate and reactivate it, or have your mount and character make the Str check to move it.

That would be funny. Attach the rod to your armor with Sovereign glue. Only problem is... when activated, you don't move, plus its a move action to turn the rod on or off.

Great idea, though. I'll have to remember this for my Dwarven Defender =D

Hmm... off the top of my head... if you're rich, use Sovereign Glue http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/r-z/sover eign-glue whenever you *really* need to stay in your saddle. A rules lawyer-type DM might not allow it "It says *objects*; clearly the glue is sentient and knows not to glue creatures together", or something like that. I would totally allow that, though, in the games I run. =D Clever thinking, too.

yeah... no. While I do play PFS, I like to mix RAI and some common sense with my RAW. Sovereign glue is basically taking advantage of a PFS mechanic (goes away at end of mod).

If the Belt doesn't work against prone, then the Belt would need to be combined with something that provides flight (flying creatures can't be tripped), such as Celestial Armor + Celestial Shield.... but that is almost 60K gp... but kinda defeats the purpose of a flying mount.

Are you considered in the same square as your mount? I think so, but I'm not sure. "Movement" refers to changing what space you occupy; if we take the absurd position that it refers to anything that moves your body in any way, then you're also immune to grappling and a host of other effects.

Of course, if we're just trying to abuse the RAW here, note that the belt apparently makes you immune to normal gravity.

It should really have "when standing on the ground" appended on there.

I'm just trying to find an easy way to avoid being dismounted, rather then spending most of my item slots for lots of (stacking) +2 bonuses to some CMDs

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/belt- earth-elemental

The belt makes the wearer "immune to effects that would push, pull, or forcefully move the wearer."

Is trip a form of forced movement?

Would this be different if it was being worn while riding a mount? Being dismounted results in falling damage (1d6), which indicates movement is involved.

I think your confusing what the restriction means. Uas are light melee weapons. Any weapon enchantment that can go on a light melee weapon or does not restrict it from applying to uas. This means furyborn works lead blades does not.

^^ This. An US counts as a blunt, light weapon. This means things like Impact (not for light weapons) and Keen (not for blunt weapons) cannot be applied to AoMF, but things like Disruption (blunt only) can be.

question on the War Wisps/Ancient WW...

Their touch attack gets iterative attacks. Is this correct?

I thought natural attacks do not get iterative attacks... is this a typo or a change, making their touch attacks count as weapons? If they gave them Multiattack, I could see this working.

The box text (for high tier) says you encounter 1 Ancient WW and 3 regular WW, but the stat blocks indicate 2 of each. Which is correct?

U get one spell per ability u replace so its not even goin to be three for a level 4 monk. And what our going to grab is barskin. By contrast what you lose is the extra +1 from the judgement abilities that are based on "every three levels". If you think barskin is worth the delay I wouldn't argue much against it but that's ALL your getting for it.

Not necessarily. The character is already Wisdom focused, you get more then just Barkskin, you get Ki Pool. that means 2 +WisMod uses per day.

for 1 Ki point, you can get: +1 attack when doing a FoB. This stacks with haste. More attacks = more win.

Additionally, don't underestimate the +4 dodge AC; I've played with a ZAM and this has saved his butt numerous times when he became the party Tank. Dodge AC stacks with all other dodge modifiers AND it adds to CMD.

You also get Barkskin, but with caster level 4, its only +2, which is nice for a while (saves money).

As to the loss of Inquisitor abilities... I haven't played one, so can't advise if its worth it.

I do agree with Grumpf that 6 levels of ZAM is great for Improved Precise Shot. Awesome feat and allows you to dump Dex to 13, which is all you need for Deadly Aim.

It was mentioned on the first page.

Thats what I get for posting when half asleep

After reading through the message boards for Feast of Sigils, I came across this question regarding the boon at the end of the module:

With there being only 1 stone, can an Animal Companion (with Int 3+) or Eidolon gain the benefit of the Ioun Stone as well as the PC? Can it gain the bonus feat instead of the PC? Would both the PC and the pet change alignment (and require atonement as necessary)?

I also noticed the Angel has an aura that makes animals not attack him; if an Animal Companion has the Celestial Template (magical beast), does this allow it to bypass the protection?

RAW wise it is a gray area which is why I said not to expect it to work. Some GMs will be fine with it, and some will not. And many mounted players will scream bloody murder if it is that easy to shut down their character.

Its easy to shut down any character, but there is usually a solution. In this case, increase CMD. If you rely on a strategy, learn its weaknesses and how to mitigate them. My main PFS is a mounted Paladin/Monk/Oracle - and being knocked off my Griffon sucks

I'm surprised nobody brought up the Titan Mauler's level 2 ability (Jotungrip).

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/archetypes/paizo---b arbarian-archetypes/titan-mauler

So...

Barbarian (Titan Mauler): Level 2, any
Fighter (Phalanx Fighter): Level 3, Polearm
Mounted: Lance
Bastard Sword/Dwarven Axe: with proficiency. but technically, they're 1-handed weapons anyway.

Plus, you can use a small sized 2-hander in 1 hand (-2 penalty).

Jason Bulmahn wrote:

I would actually say that both Fast Healing and Regeneration stopped bleed damage entirely. Although, if the initial source of the damage was one that could not be regenerated (such as scoring a critical hit with an acid arrow against a troll), then I would let that bleed continue.

Once again though, this is one of those gray areas that we left for you to rule in a manner that works best for your game.

Jason Bulmahn
GameMastery Brand Manager

Thread link please!

Not that it matters for RAW, but certainly helps with RAI. Thanks to this post: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2prmb&page=3?Vital-Strike#102

reyyvin; I agree on RAW regarding what Bleed says, but "not in my games" would be my answer... I mean, a spell that does 1 point of healing heals it, or you can apply a 1st aid (natural pressure), but fast healing 500 or regeneration 100000 won't stop it? Seems kind of silly to me. The regeneration spell would stop it, as would a fast healing spell... but the abilities don't? Makes little to no sense to me.

I mean, the spell is 7th level, the cost to add the ability to a creature is 6 RP... I don't see much difference in potency. Blessing of the Salamander is even lower level spell that grants Fast Healing, thus because it is a spell, would stop bleed. ?really? just because it is a spell it works? RAW sure, being "any spell" makes all the difference. RAI - No. Frellin. Way. If Regeneration can re-attach a severed limb, it CERTAINLY can stop bleeding...

In practice/RAI, i agree with you completely. In my home games, Fast healing = stabilize. Same with regeneration UMR (regenerate spell actually heals damage, so would count as ending bleed). I agree with your logic 100%.

The problem is, RAW and PFS, the way they are worded... not so much. A spell that grants Fast Healing still doesn't stop bleed effects; the spell itself doesn't grant any healing, but instead gives a fast healing effect.

The intent is for it to stay permanent, so if you alignment changes, and your deity no longer supports you then you lose your class features.

If you are asking can you just change it everyday then the answer is no.

No, I'm not asking about every day alignment change. Just saying that is a potential issue of it changes with alignment.

I assumed the initial choice is permanent (as the rule says), but my opinion is not the only viable one. RAW does support.

As far as alignment change... if Deity is Lawful-Neutral, for example, their worshipers can be LG, LN, LE, or TN. Cleric starts out LN, chooses Negative channeling, then later becomes LG.

Alignment is still in zone allowed by deity, so cleric still retains divine power granted by this same deity.

The question is... what happens to their Channel Energy class feature? Does it continue to work as originally chosen: or would it no longer function (like having a feat that you no longer qualify for, since you are no longer Neutral worshiping a Neutral deity)? [this is assuming the character is good and wants to keep channel negative, not retraining it, for Variant Channeling ability]

My question is when do all these occur? Also if a spell or ability states that it's at the beginning of a turn in what order to you do them in?

I have a character that just gained Fast Healing 5; with another ability I can add half my Constitution bonus to this. If I was taking Con damage at the start of my turn...do I get the Fast Healing with my normal Con first or take the Con damage THEN the Fast Healing with the reduced bonus?

I'm below 0 and 1 away from dying and not Stabilized. Do I roll for Stabilizing and if I miss it take the the -1 first and die....or do I get Fast Healing first and stabilize? If I was suffering from Bleed damage...do I take the Bleed damage first and die...or the Fast Healing first and negate the damage before it happens?

I am guessing that I am missing a ton of different types of damage that can happen....I know these are rare edge cases, but I am at the edge so I was just wondering if this is addressed anywhere as I cannot find it and the topics i found didn't give any good answers...

To OP: for order of operations, check the wording for each ability. As an an example, none of dying, poison, or fast healing, stipulate when during your turn they take effect, therefore, the order is up to the player. Many DMs like to do poison saves at the start of the turn, but there is no rule saying it must be done then (except per wording on an individual poison ability).

If the ability that damaged your Con specified that it was 'at start of turn,' then the ability damage would take place, and your Fast Healing later. If not, then you can take your Con improved Fast Healing before the Con Damage

Likewise, for the stability check, you can get Fast Healing first. If you are at 0 or above, no check needed. If under 0, since Fast Healing is "natural" instead of Magical healing, by the Stable rule, it isn't clear if this makes you Stable.

IMO, if you are naturally healing (via Fast Healing), you should automatically Stabilize, but I've seen most DMs rule otherwise.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/conditions#TOC-Dying
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/afflictions/poison
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/universal-monster-rules #TOC-Fast-Healing-Ex-
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/conditions#TOC-Stable

To Maouse: RAW, Fast healing would not negate a bleed effect. Fast Healing counts as Natural Healing; bleed is stopped by a heal check or magical healing.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/conditions#TOC-Bleed

At level 1, a Neutral cleric of a Neutral Deity can choose to channel either positive or negative energy, and the choice cannot be changed.

What happens if the cleric changes alignment? Channeling energy is not defined as a good or evil act (and this is supported by healing and inflict spells not having either the good or evil descriptor).

Assuming a cleric continues to worship the same Neutral Deity, if a cleric chooses to channel negative energy, then becomes good, what happens?

A neutral cleric of a neutral deity (or one who is not devoted to a particular deity) must choose whether she channels positive or negative energy. Once this choice is made, it cannot be reversed. This decision also determines whether the cleric can cast spontaneous cure or inflict spells (see spontaneous casting).

Do they loose access to the class feature, since they no longer meet the requirements, or do they continue to channel negative energy?

If they change channeled type (to positive), this could create a slippery slope where alignment flops back and forth depending on what they expect to face (I'm neutral today, I'm good today), etc.

I've never made a Summoner, and I've rarely been around one, so I'll just address one thing you mentioned and leave the rest for others to advise:

Golgathar wrote:

Str at 20 (+5 bonus, I have feat of augment summoning)

The Augment Summoning feat doesn't increase your Eidolon's Str and Con*. The feat augments creatures you summon via spells like Summon Nature's Ally and Summon Monster. Basically, since you're not using a spell to summon your Eidolon it doesn't benefit from the feat.

*There is a 2nd level Summoner spell called Summon Eidolon that will work in conjunction with Augment Summoning, and similar feats, but the drawback is that its duration is only 1 minute/level.

to Golgathander: ^^ This. You only get to add Augment Summoning if you Summon the Eidolon with Summon Eidolon spell..

As for multiple attacks and all that jazz...

weapon attacks are considered separate from natural attacks. Claws/Pincers are probably the cheapest way to get multiple extra attacks. That said, they take the penalty for secondary attacks when using a weapon, which is -5 hit, until you're level 9 and they get multiattack (reduce penalty to -2), plus 1/2 strength damage.

So if the Eidolon has 16 str, at level 1, and you take extra limbs (arms) and a 1 point evolution (assume you take a weapon feat, like short sword, for its first feat):

shortsword (+4, 1d6+3), 2 claws (-1, 1d4+1)

vs standard Eidolon: 2 claws (+4, 1d4+3)

melee weapon eidolons builds don't really open up until higher level. Double check with DM to see if multi-weapon fighting is allowed; in PFS, as far as I know, there is no additional resource that grants it to Eidolons.

Additionally, in a non-PFS game, see if your DM will allow you to retrain Eidolon Feats (Ultimate Campaign); if so, take multiattack at an early level, then retrain it at 9th.

Samasboy1 wrote:

Assuming he is at least medium, and the opponent's mount is something like a horse (Large but no reach), tripping the mount would not result in an AoO (not threatened by the target) and would halt the charge altogether. You do have to worry about the size and stability bonuses a horse gets though.

On the other hand, tripping the rider could work. Trip says the target is knocked prone, and prone is defined as laying on the ground. So you could definitely argue that tripping a mounted rider unseats him from his mount.

Don't expect it to work as there is a specific feat to take someone out of the saddle.

unseat

Unseat is not the be-all-end-all of dismounting a rider. Unseat works sorta like Grab, aka, you do your melee attack and then get a free bull rush (like Grab lets you do a melee attack and get a free grapple without AoO).

Trip says the target is prone; prone says the target is on the ground. Nothing in the rules (as far as I've seen) make riders immune to trip. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this.

From reading the descriptions of Bull Rush and Grapple (after standard to maintain, then using the move action), either can take a rider off their mount. The grapple move should allow the rider a free grapple check to break, as moving them off the mount puts them in a hazardous location (fall damage).

Drag and Reposition are iffy... technically, the rider would be put in a hazardous location due to taking falling damage (d6, more if flying), which would rule out Reposition; with Drag, you move the rider through the mount's space (which the rider shares), so also questionable.

To the OP... with the errata to Mounted Charge, it is up to the DM how they want to interpret it. Previously, the language was clear: only the charge attack would deal the extra hit/damage. Now, it says "first attack." I'm pretty sure this is meant to only apply to the iterative attacks a rider makes (with pounce) and NOT to AoO, but your DM may interpret it differently. FYI, there are THREE questions on Charging on that FAQ. Regardless, only 1 attack the rider makes has the hit/damage bonus from a lance charge, so if he gets the bonus damage on you, he won't get it on the wizard.

http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9ru6

Nope, when they traded it away, it became gone. You can't apply the Rogue favored class option to the alternate Eastern weapons.

This

Contradicting rules text in the feat. That's about right. FAQing for clarification.

Ugh. More editing issues.

The intro does indeed say spells, however the second line, which describes what the rule does, reads `spells and effects.

While it is unclear, I would go with the `spells and effects` until clarified. At PFS tables, YMMV.

It gives more tactical options in a bad situation.

If you fall prone, you will probably provoke an AoO when you stand up. If the PC is low on HP, dropping the weapon may be a good idea. You may also be facing enemies that do REALLY nasty things when you fall prone... or be facing one with Vicious Strike. The game is too varied to name every possible contingency any given player my face, but it does keep your options open.

It is not a great property, but there are situations when dropping your +4 uber weapon of worldslaying is a better option then falling prone, especially when you can draw your backup, the +2 almost uber weapon of continent slaying. Remember that if you have quickdraw (or you still have a move action that turn), you can grab your back up and full attack next round

Lincoln Hills wrote:

(Be warned: paladins don't need Wisdom, monks don't need Charisma, and they both need Str/Dex/Con, so don't expect to devastate unless you have a surprisingly high stat array. Someday I'll run a character with straight 13s, optimized to make the best of that - just to show it can be done.)

Yeah I'm taking the serenity feat from dragon compendium. Makes all my paladin features wisdom based

Combined with Zen, this is awesome.

16 Str = damage for bow. Unless DM allows the "guided" enchantment on a bow. If so, only put this as high as you need for Feats.
15 dex = 13 is all you need to qualify for Deadly Aim
15 Con = 3rd highest stat. yer gonna attract aggro
14 Int = dump, unless you want skill points
18 Wis = uber stat. AC, hit bonus, all saves (and 2x wis), perception, Ki Pool, probably Paladin spells too. I don't remember everything from 3.5
14 Cha = dump, unless you wanna be the face.

If you can drop Int and Cha for more Wis/Str/Con, may be a good idea. Otherwise, Dex, Int, and Cha are not that important.

Combining Zen and Serenity means he only has to focus on 2 stats. Wisdom is primary (headband), and Strength secondary (belt). can also add Con to the belt for more damage. Makes a MAD combo very easy to pull off with only 2 main stats.

I disagree. I think that since the item does not say that it works when worn by a fighter, it works for anyone.

However, this question is marked as answered in the errata, but I cannot find a reference in the errata. Can someone please point me toward the official answer?

awesome... basically, they looked at the title and assumed what they wrote already covered it (since the item's name was in the FAQ).

There is nothing in the errata, but there is in the FAQ. I think they refer to :

http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fn#v5748eaic9ni3

It doesn't answer the question at all, but rather stipulates what they apply to.

Do we really want to try to force a player to have multiple Companions/Mounts?

actually, thats what they decided on a while back when they declared that AC levels dont't stack unless they're on the same list.

I'd prefer it wasn't that way, and so would a lot of players. In PFS, that also means you can only 'use' one of them at a time, which is a wasted class feature

since Tongues is the prerequisite spell for Gold Nodule, would that qualify as giving them the ability to do so?

Actually Mike Brock ruled animals with it 3 or higher can activate Ioun Stones.

But no matter the source, animals are animals and cannot speak, unless something specifically gives them the ability to do so.

What would qualify something as "specifically gives them the ability" to speak?

are we talking about spells like tongues? http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/tongues.html#_tongues

how about items like the Gold Nodule Ioun stone, made from tongues

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/h-l/ioun- stones/gold-nodule

"This stone grants you the ability to comprehend, speak, read, and write a single language (chosen by the ioun stone's creator)"

or are we talking things that specifically say an animal can talk, like:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/3rd-party-magic-items/3rd-party-wondrou s-items/alluria-publishing/collar-of-beast-speech

(yes, I realize this item is not PFS legal)

Ah, unfortunately, you cannot have an ioun stone for an animal companion.

Relevant see a previous post about this topic.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. But looks like you can get a refund at least!

EDIT: Hmm appears to be an interesting corner case, because it's a magical beast.

Actually, these are specifically allowed in the PFS FAQ, so their ability to be used is not at issue.

http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fq#v5748eaic9p51

one question that is worth asking... does "activating" an Ioun Stone mean just turning it on (floating around your head or slotting in a wayfinder) ... or does it also allow them to use ones that cast spells, like Vibrant Purple Prism (I think probably not).

**edit: lol, ninja'ed**

This is for PFS...

My Paladin recently acquired a divine bond Animal Companion and I wanted to give it a bonus to the Fly skill. With limited options, I opted for a +2 intelligence Ioun stone. In addition to the skill ranks and +2 intelligence, it granted the beast an additional language.

This got me to wondering. The ioun stone grants it an additional lanaguage known. It obviously understand, but can it speak?

Due to PFS ruling on animal companions and speach, I'd initially think
"no,", but this is a magical effect.

What about other items like the Gold Nodule Ioun stone, which specifically grant an additional language?

For reference, the divine Bond is a Griffon (Monsterous mount feat), which is a Magical Beast. Plus, the character has the Celestial Servant feat (still a Magical Beast). By default, it can understand Common, but not speak it.

Or is "speak with animals" still the only way to communicate with an AC, no matter what?

It also doesn't say whether the healing is positive energy or alchemical.

I wonder if a Dhampir could make use of it...

good question. It doesn't state the healing is positive energy, but the base spell is CLW.

For cost, 9000k is a bargain if you compare it to a cure light wounds potion.

caster level x spell level x 50 gp = 250 gp each. x3/day = 750 gp.

pays for itself in 36 days, plus the cost of the 'ammo.'

By price... still a bargain. Use activated = spell level x caster level x2000. assuming CLW = 10000. because its uses per day, x3/5 = 6000, then x2 for slotless = 12000. and you get the +2 enhancement stuff for when you really need a +7 against poison.

a 3/day cure light wound item (level 1) would be 2400, so just 3.75 x price for that.

The FAQ for contradicts the FAQ for Qinggong/other archetype, at least for optional archetype power stacking.

Qinngong: When you have a choice you must take the power from the non variable archetype.

Wildblood/Crossblood: Having a choice you means cannot take that combination.

Not correct. With Wildblooded, you must swap out each option. In all cases, this changes the blooline arcana. With Crossblooded, you gain the bloodline arcana of both bloodlines.

Both of these archetypes modify the bloodline arcana. You cannot take an archetype that modifies the same ability. This is a general rule that applies UNLESS another rule/FAQ specifically breaks the rule (like the Quiggong you mentioned).

The remainder of the FAQ describes how a DM should handle the combination if they house rule the combination into their game - which, in essence, then follows the general rules for the Quiggong archetype (choice of abilities at each level).

In the case of the Quiggong, it does not force the character to swap out ANY monk abilities. A monk could be a quiggong and swap NONE of the abilities. Do to this, Paizo has ruled a specific exception to the general rule to allow Quiggong to combine with other archetypes, with the caveat that they cannot choose to swap out abilities gained by their other archetypes, as these abilities are forced changes by the other archetypes, AND that the character cannot choose to gain back any standard monk ability swapped out by these archetypes.

By issuing the FAQ, Paizo simply confirmed that neither Wildblooded nor Crossblooded would gain the exception that Quiggong was allowed.

While I'm not familiar with every single archetype in the game, there are a handful of other exemptions, either stated directly or indirectly. A Monk may take multiple Vows (they all replace Still Mind). An Oathbound Paladin may make multiple Oaths, as long as their only overlap is Code of Conduct and Spells (since that is part of the base archetype); they are still not allowed to overlap any other class feature, either with multiple Oaths or any other archetype. For both of these, this is stated directly in the Archetype. Arcane Discoveries are not an Archetype in itself, but alternate feat replacement options.

reyyvin wrote:

Nicos wrote:

THe FAQ do not talk about elditch heritage at all.

Nobody is disputing that the FAQ does not specifically address Eldritch Heritage. The FAQ clarifies that Wildblooded is an archetype, not a bloodline. Sylvan bloodline is a Wildblooded archetype of the Fey bloodline.

Where does Eldritch heritage allow you to take a class archetype?

Eldrich Heritage gives access to a level 1 bloodline power, it does not give you the bloodline.

The reasoning I have heard is that:

Yes, wildblooded is an archtype of sorcerer that allows a sorcerer to take these other bloodlines that are slightly different from the normal bloodlines. The sorcerer archtype. The bloodlines are not an archtype they are a bloodline allowed by the arctype. But they are still bloodlines. Eldritch Heritage does not give you sorcerer (archtype or not). So Eldritch Heritage allows you to get the powers of a bloodline. That's how it works.

Not sure I agree with that reasoning, but that is how it was presented to me.

With that logic, any sorcerer can access Wildblooded bloodlines without taking the archetype. FAQ with Wildblooded + Crossblooded is pretty clear this doesn't work.

The only way to get access to the wildblooded is through the archetype. Only the wildblooded archetype gives access to the "mutated version" of a bloodline. They don't exist in the rules outside of the archetype.

It is like arguing that if you get a class feature with a similar name from class A, you can swap it with an archetype feature of Class B. Example, Sohei monk (archetype) gets weapon training at level 6. So... I can swap that with... Armored Defense from the Fighter Armor Master.

THe FAQ do not talk about elditch heritage at all.

Nobody is disputing that the FAQ does not specifically address Eldritch Heritage. The FAQ clarifies that Wildblooded is an archetype, not a bloodline. Sylvan bloodline is a Wildblooded archetype of the Fey bloodline.

Where does Eldritch heritage allow you to take a class archetype?

Eldrich Heritage gives access to a level 1 bloodline power, it does not give you the bloodline.

I'm wondering WHEN I lose the one spell at each spell level. Let's say at 1st level I lose a spell known, since 0 level spells are included, I lose a cantrip. But I only lose 10 spells known, so it seems they should be done at static intervals. If I lose one at 1st, I should lose the next one at 3rd and that would be a 1st level spell. You can't front-end load this, because at some point I would be due to lose a spell level that I can't cast for 8 more levels.

So my recommendation for implementing this would be,
1st level = only 3 cantrips
3rd level = no new 1st level spell
5th level = no new 2nd level spell
7th level = no new 3rd level spell
9th level = no new 4th level spell
11th level = no new 5th level spell
and so on.

At 20th level,you would have
20th 8 4 4 3 3 3 2 2 2 2

which seems to be the intent of the penalty.

the easiest way to do this is look at the number of spells known at your current caster levels. now subtract one off each spell level.

for example:

Level 1: 4, 2 ............. becomes 3, 1

level 4: 6, 3, 1............ becomes 5, 2, 0

Level 6: 7, 4, 2, 1 ....... becomes 6, 3, 1, 0

level 10: 9, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1... becomes 8, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0

Spells are lost at 'static intervals': at the earliest opportunity.

Jeff Merola wrote:

Yes, they do stack.

Usually when I see a question like this there is a catch.

I'm curious what the catch is?

You can't take a 3rd level spell and apply a metamagic and end up with a 2nd level slot used.

Reyyvin, could you give us two examples of application?

I haven't seen people using it to cast below the level of the spell. Most ruling on effects apply to things that are similar, so I haven't seen that.

Taking both traits on 1 spell to apply a +2 metamagic feat to keep it as a level 1 spell.

Like an Intensified, Elemental (acid) shocking grasp (level 1), an Empowered Fireball (level 3), or an Intensified, Empowered Fireball (level 4). Things like that.

They work together, with the caveat that if you're sitting at my table and say "I have a trait called Metamagic Master", I'm going to ask you what book you found it in.

good call... or better yet, ask to present the book, since if they have a laptop, they can look it up easily.

reyyvin wrote:

I was just e-mailed about an online convention boon I won... The organizer says they must include a character's name/ID#/faction#/etc and chronicle number.

The problem is that I have no characters that can use the boon (Mounted Tradition). Filling out that information "uses" the boon, right?

If I gave the organizer information about an unmade character (like name of "Trade Boon" and #99) and put it as chronicle 1 , along with a copy of the original e-mail, would that allow me to trade it?

Not sure why an online boon would be any different from a regular convention boon and that information is not filled out at a regular convention.

Is the coordinator emailing the boon to you? If so that would be the only reason I can think of that they would require all that information to be filled out.

If you have to give him the information, just make the character number the next one in line for your number of characters and plan to make a character that can use it next.

If you are wanting to trade the boon; I would have issues as yes, that technically uses the boon and would prevent you from trading it for something else that you'd want.

**disclaimer all of the above is my opinion only**

The coordinator said that was the agreement they made last year with Paizo for e-boons. I have some boons from other online Cons, but they didn't need that info (They just have my PFS # on it).

Unfortunately for me, Mounted Tradition also requires a race boon to go with it, which I don't have; all of them are older and I'm unlikely to get one. Only usable option for me on it is a Tengu with an axe beak - and I already have an unassigned character that has that from DM credits and a certain quest chain.

I am looking for opinions since I don't want to get it, trade it, then screw the person that wanted it.

Chris Ballard wrote:

Want: Dhampir, Goblin (I know probably won't happen.)

Funny, I have both of those to give away. Trying to come up with the best way to help people with the goblin boon. Like a charity auction, raffle and/or some way to draw attendance.

Any thoughts?

mehaheha. Would love a goblin! Better then huge bluff halfling pretending to be goblin!

I believe the first challenge I would attempt to surmount is giving the little jello mold an actual AC. 'Cause they just sorta sit there and get hit. >_> Well, that and the thought of a gelatinous cube in fullplate barding is hilarious to me. It would just be a metal cube hopping along behind its druid master.

^^ Metal Slime!

First off, this is primarily for PFS; I'm posting in both the rules forum as well as the PFS forum, so as to hopefully get more Dev input.

Both allow you to apply a metamagic feat to a specific spell and reduce the total level by 1. Neither indicates that it is a trait bonus.

Do they work together on the same spell? I don't think they should, but I'm not sure there's RAW to support it and I'm starting to see it on more and more characters.

*FYI, Wayang Spellhunter is the Pathfinder name of the feat; Metamagic Master is what it has been renamed to in the SRD*

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/advancedNewRules.html#_magical- lineage

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/regional-traits/wayang-spellhunter-minata

Thoughts?

Why would the feat not apply to both classes?

That would mean, that it doesn't matter what restrictions either class have, because they both now have access to the Monstrous Mount, and that makes it on both "lists", making the levels stack.

Here is the wording in the feat:

"Prerequisite(s): Handle Animal 4 ranks; Ride 4 ranks; divine bond (mount), hunter's bond (animal companion), or mount class feature with an effective druid level of 4."

Each class has a different, named ability that grants them an animal companion. Paladin's gain a "divine bond," Rangers gain a "hunter's bond," and Cavaliers gain a "mount." The feat adds the selected Beast to each of these classes' list of companions.

Druids gain a "Nature Bond (animal companion)." Nature Oracles gain a "Divine Mount." Lunar Oracles gain a "Primal Companion." These all have different names then those referenced in the feat, so the Magical Beast is not added to their list.

If the feat referred to an "Animal Companion with an effective druid level of 4," then any of the above could take the feat. However, the feat specifically calls out 3 types of class features.

As always, in your home game, you can do whatever you like.

Nicos wrote:

a) THere is no RAW. THe FAQ do not talk about Eldritch heritage and the words of JJ, as good as his advice are, are not official FAQ:

b) When talking about balance you have to consider that tiger and that stegosaurus are at -5 level.

Nicos wrote:

reyyvin wrote:

That said, I would NOT allow Sylvan for Eldrich Heritage since the animal companion itself replaces both the level 1 bloodline power as well as the arcana. I would house rule it taking a 2 feats, since it is clearly a more powerful option (1 for the arcana and 1 for the bloodline power). I have several characters with pets... action economy alone is almost like having 2 characters, albeit one with more limited options

You already can have an animal companion using two feats, like the two feats you need to have eldritch heritage. AND, eldritch heritage actually give you a weaker enemy.

In your version, for 2 feats, you either get a weak AC at class level -3 OR a choice of any AC at class level -5. Your next feat is probably Boon Companion. Level 7 tiger vs level 9 horse/dog at character level 9, easy choice to make.

Either that, or you're already a druid and trying to combine the levels. In that case, 2x(class level)-5 is completely broken for something deadly like a tiger or allosaurus. At character level 9, this means a level 13 tiger

Having a Horse or dog with 2x(class levels)-3... means a level 15 horse/dog at character level 9. Powerful, but still underwhelming.

I pointed out the RAW in my above posts. scroll up a bit and refute it. If you can show me any place in the rules that allows you to take a class archetype without being a member of that class, then I'll change my opinion. The FAQ and Wildblooded are very clear that Wild-blooded is a class archetype that modifies a bloodline, not a bloodline in itself.

a) THere is no RAW. THe FAQ do not talk about Eldritch heritage and the words of JJ, as good as his advice are, are not official FAQ:

b) When talking about balance you have to consider that tiger and that stegosaurus are at -5 level.

reyyvin wrote:

That said, I would NOT allow Sylvan for Eldrich Heritage since the animal companion itself replaces both the level 1 bloodline power as well as the arcana. I would house rule it taking a 2 feats, since it is clearly a more powerful option (1 for the arcana and 1 for the bloodline power). I have several characters with pets... action economy alone is almost like having 2 characters, albeit one with more limited options

You already can have an animal companion using two feats, like the two feats you need to have eldritch heritage. AND, eldritch heritage actually give you a weaker enemy.

In your version, for 2 feats, you either get a weak AC at class level -3 OR a choice of any AC at class level -5. Easy choice to make, since your next feat (in either case) is Boon Companion.

Either that, or you're already a druid and trying to combine the levels. In that case, 2x(class level)-5 is completely broken for something deadly like a tiger or allosaurus.

Having a Horse or dog with 2x(class levels)-5... still underwhelming.

I pointed out the RAW in my above posts. scroll up a bit and refute it. If you can show me any place in the rules that allows you to take a class archetype without being a member of that class, then I'll change my opinion. The FAQ and Wildblooded are very clear that Wild-blooded is a class archetype that modifies a bloodline, not a bloodline in itself.

Ok, so here is the description of Monstrous Mount:

Quote:

Monstrous Mount

Prerequisite(s): Handle Animal 4 ranks; Ride 4 ranks; divine bond (mount), hunter's bond (animal companion), or mount class feature with an effective druid level of 4.

Benefit(s): You can select an exotic beast from the list of monstrous mounts to serve as your animal companion or special mount. You acquire and advance this creature in the same way as the mount or animal companion detailed in the class feature used as a prerequisite for this feat. You can also dismiss the creature as dictated by your class feature.

You must meet additional prerequisites to choose a creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher, as described in each creature's entry.

My question is simply this, if I meet the prerequisites by multiclassing (say with a Druid4/Cavalier1) would my levels stack for the Monstrous Mount? I ask because I know that RAW if a creature isn't on both lists that you cannot stack the effective druid level.

I would think not. This will allow the Griffon (or whatever you choose) to be on the Cavalier list, but not on the Druid list.

If you had 2 classes that granted "divine bond (mount), hunter's bond (animal companion), or mount class feature" then all the levels should stack. So, for example, a Paladin 5/Cavalier 1 should stack all levels. Some may argue that you would need Paladin 5/Cavalier 4 (for the "effective druid level of 4"), but since the Paladin and Cavalier have the same list, their levels would add together to form 1 level 6 mount (with 5 paladin/1 cavalier).

An archetype, like the Cavalier Beast Rider, may not combine;it trades "mount" for "exotic mount."

Sadly, it also does not work with a Nature Oracle's "Bonded Mount," which is somewhere in between a Ranger's mount and a Paladin's mount in power.

The Runelord of Sloth never got around to editing it.

^^ =D

You can totally take the Animal companion with just two feats though (animal ally), not sure what would be the problem with taking it using eldrith heritage.

a) We're talking about RAW. It doesn't work.

b) when we talk about balance, Animal Ally is nothing close to a full selection animal companion.

If you just want a horse, take Animal Ally. The other options are also pretty weak.

Sylvan bloodline gives you access to the full druid range of animal companions - which are generally a MUCH more powerful option.

Melee on Warhorse: better mobility for rider and some damage.
Melee on Tiger/velociraptor: vicious and brutal. Probably better then the rider.
Melee on Stegosaurus/Elephant: Huge damage and AC tank, probably better then the rider.

There's a reason that classes granting AC levels only stack for options shared by both lists: some are more powerful then others.

Eh...

I am going to go with

Stephen Radney-MacFarland wrote:

Messageboard posts on a subjects made by the design and development team are not "official rulings" on the games. Clarifications in FAQ posts and errata are official rulings.

Even from the author.

You can add multiple archetypes to a class that don't modify the same class feature.

Sub-school specialization and Thassilonian specialists are both basically archetypes, and don't modify any of the same class features.

So I don't see any reason why you couldn't have a Admixture Wrath specialist.

Sadly, I also have to agree with this. There is precedent for FAQ disagreeing with designer intent.

Check out the Sohei Monk. The 'unofficial errata' listed in the pfsrd indicates that the original author's intention was that Flurry of Blows NOT work while wearing armor. However, the official FAQ allows armor to be worn.

After the designer submits his work, a small team of gremlins/goblins attacks it (the stories change), often altering it before it reaches publication. True story.

That FAQ only concerns multiclassing. Using it we can only discern that the Crossblooded and Wildblooded archetypes cannot be taken together. That's it. It says nothing about how to treat Wildblooded Bloodlines, or Bloodlines in general.

(I'm having to play Devil's Advocate for my friend, since he doesn't post on the forums. You needn't convince me, but I'm looking for arguments to convince him)

From his POV, he sees "Sylvan Bloodline". Eldritch Heritage reads, "Select one sorcerer bloodline".

How can I tell him that those two don't equate to the same thing?

No worries Nef. Please forward this to your friend.

That FAQ does not concern multi-classing. It concerns taking multiple archetypes together at the same time. Here is the FAQ:

"No, because the archetype rules say none of the alternate class features can replace or alter the same class feature from the class as another alternate class feature. Because the crossblooded and wildblooded sorcerer archetypes both alter the bloodline arcana and bloodline powers, they aren't compatible archetypes."

This clearly spells out that both Crossblooded and Wildblooded are archetypes. This is where the problem is. Where does it allow you to take an archetype of a class you have not selected?

Second, for the Eldrich Heritage Feat, please read the entire feat. "Benefit: Select one sorcerer bloodline. You must have Skill focus in the class skill that bloodline grants to a sorcerer at 1st level (for example, Heal for the celestial bloodline). This bloodline cannot be a bloodline you already have. You gain the first-level bloodline power for the selected bloodline. For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer. You do not gain any of the other bloodline abilities."

It does not give you levels in sorcerer or ANY other bloodline abilities. It only gives you what it says: a level 1 bloodline power.

Please read the text for the Sylvan bloodline:

"Bloodline Arcana: See bloodline powers.

Bloodline Powers: Your magic shows a kinship to that of the beast-talkers and shapechanger fey.

Animal Companion (Ex): You gain an animal companion. Your effective druid level for this ability is equal to your sorcerer level – 3 (minimum 1st). This bloodline power counts as your bloodline arcana and also replaces laughing touch."

The Animal Companion ability replaces BOTH the bloodline arcana as well as the level 1 bloodline power. Even if Wildblooded were not an archetype, you still could not gain this with Eldrich Heritage since you do not have a Fey bloodline arcana to swap out.

----

The rest of the FAQ talks about how it would be allowed by DM prerogative. For PFS, that isn't allowed, but in a home game, go for it. As a DM, I WOULD allow Wildblooded to not count as an archetype in my home game, since I personally do not believe it should be an archetype.

That said, I would NOT allow Sylvan for Eldrich Heritage since the animal companion itself replaces both the level 1 bloodline power as well as the arcana. I would house rule it taking a 2 feats, since it is clearly a more powerful option (1 for the arcana and 1 for the bloodline power). I have several characters with pets... action economy alone is almost like having 2 characters, albeit one with more limited options