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For those of us with groups larger than four I know I'd like to have some additional powers to grant them with their own Terendelev's Scales.
Cloaking Mists: Three times per day as a standard action, a scale can be used to cast obsucring mist. While concealed in the mists the scale grants the effect of the Blind-Fight feat to the bearer.
Graceful Movement: Three times per day a scale can be used to cast feather fall. Alternately as a standard action, a scale can be used to grant the target a +4 competence bonus to Acrobatics and Fly checks for 1 minute.
--We will, we will... VROCK YOU!
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If you look at the Scales, you'll see each one replicates a 2nd level Cleric spell and allows three uses per day. I'd avoid the obvious buffs (like Bull Strength) or combative spells and instead go for more subtle measures.
Well, the scales seem to follow a pattern (of sorts). A 2nd-level spell, usable three times, and another bonus or limitation. In terms of the spell, each of the pre-defined scales gives a benefit that really only benefits the user (although levitate's clouds could provide a benefit to others).
With that in mind, that the scale is used to affect only the bearer of the scale, I would personally rule out the Fog Cloud (as it affects a large area), and the Shield Other (as it affects another).
I like the idea of the Feather Fall ability, or possibly substituting it for Glide. I also like the idea of having one scale cast Grace, and then give a bonus to movement speed while in use (say 5 or 10 feet). Maybe call this one Graceful Movement, and call the Feather Fall scale the Graceful Flight or Gliding Descent.
Another idea could be using one to cast Effortless Armor, and give, perhaps, a +2 bonus to AC vs AoOs while in use. This would have limited useability, though, as not every character will be encumbered by armor.
Finally, what about one scale that casts Protection from Evil (or Chaos). I would want to apply a limitation to this scale, such as stating it only gives the bonus to AC and perhaps the mind-affecting spells. Summoned outsiders could still hit the PC.
Or what about Acute Senses or Honeyed Tongue. I imagine both of those as spells that aren't too overpowered, and are more of a utility spell. Not sure what the bonuses would be.
Those are my idle thoughts to get things started!
I agree that more options are needed. I wonder if the fine developers had a few extra they could toss our way that didn't make it in?
The powers affect others, it's just the bearer that can cast them. The only ability that is bearer exclusive is Alter Self. The others can target others, Levitate even says a cloud appears under the object or creature. There's no reason to limit Protection from Evil (or Chaos) as most of the outsiders encountered aren't summoned and those that are summoned still have a chance since demons have spell resistance.
The powers affect others, it's just the bearer that can cast them. The only ability that is bearer exclusive is Alter Self. The others can target others, Levitate even says a cloud appears under the object or creature. There's no reason to limit Protection from Evil (or Chaos) as most of the outsiders encountered aren't summoned and those that are summoned still have a chance since demons have spell resistance.
Oh! I stand corrected. That'll teach me to insert words into descriptions I read! I was taking the words that the scales grant a power to the one who holds it and that the scales don't function if more than one is carried to mean something a little different. As it stands, then, one individual person could benefit from every single scale's power. The PCs all use their scale's power on the PC holding the Alter Self scale.
That would depend on party size, they're only useable 3/day so average 4 man party someone's getting left out. Also they don't work at all if you hold more than one. I'm still not sure what happens if they start passing them around. That part of my question got skipped and the part that wasn't a question got responded to.
That would depend on party size, they're only useable 3/day so average 4 man party someone's getting left out. Also they don't work at all if you hold more than one. I'm still not sure what happens if they start passing them around. That part of my question got skipped and the part that wasn't a question got responded to.
I would rule, in my campaign, that the scales are the power and it does not matter if Joe or Sue call the power. 3 times regardless of who uses it and it is done for the day.
-- david
That would depend on party size, they're only useable 3/day so average 4 man party someone's getting left out. Also they don't work at all if you hold more than one. I'm still not sure what happens if they start passing them around. That part of my question got skipped and the part that wasn't a question got responded to.
Correct, you can't hold more than one or they won't work. Which, I see, is different than having the scales power used on you. You don't hold the scale, so you can get the benefit, even though you're holding a different scale. I think I may change that when I run my tables.
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Cold Aura: 3/day the user can emit a 5' aura of cold, as frost fall (Fortitude DC 16), from a corner adjacent to them. The holder of the scale has immunity to the effect for one round. When the holder moves, the aura stays in the area in which it was initially called.
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I'm a little iffy about the DC. I went with 16 for the artifact being CL 19 (caster capable of 9th level spells = 19, modifier 4) and 2nd level. I felt even a minor artifact needed a save higher than 13.
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Ive got 6-12 players. So far its just going to be Roll a d4 everyone and that will be the power of that scale. Unless i see something to catch my eye in the next three days.. then it will be a d# whatever.. I do kinda like that its limited to just a few powers as for me anyway with so many players.. it can be a logistical nightmare. Thankfully 6/12 are comfortable DM stuff other then 2e/rifts so it is nice ive got almost psydo-dm's.
Sorry nothing really constructive in this post.. i just wanted to share
It's been a while, but I thought I should add the addition that I'm using as my fifth scale; it is a combination of a silver dragon's cold and paralyzing breathe (albeit it only staggers for a round).
Paralyzing cold: Three times per day as a standard action, a scale can be used to make a melee attack (using a weapon, unarmed strike or natural attack), if it hits the attack deals an additional 2d8 cold damage and the target must make a Fortitude save DC 10 + half-level + Con modifier or be staggered for 1 round.
Silence: Three times a day as a standard action the scale can be used to cast the spell Silence. It also provides a +4 bonus to Stealth when sneaking up on demons and cultists.
Calm Emotions: Three times a day as a standard action the scale can be used to cast the spell Calm Emotions. It also provides a +1 divine bonus to Diplomacy and Sense Motive checks.
I'd thought of one that does Instant Armor, but realized it would be overpowered. I mean, it would create Full Plate (even if it "only" lasts 19 minutes)!
I agree that more options are needed. I wonder if the fine developers had a few extra they could toss our way that didn't make it in?Nope; only four were built. I'm certainly enjoying seeing what folks come up with for more though! :-)
For future consideration: since we RPG'ers are essentially gamblers at heart - I would advocate including around 6 or 8 options when something similar crops up. This caters both for larger play groups as well as make it more viable to roll-your-reward.
I agree that more options are needed. I wonder if the fine developers had a few extra they could toss our way that didn't make it in?Nope; only four were built. I'm certainly enjoying seeing what folks come up with for more though! :-)For future consideration: since we RPG'ers are essentially gamblers at heart - I would advocate including around 6 or 8 options when something similar crops up. This caters both for larger play groups as well as make it more viable to roll-your-reward.
But that will also cut into word count.
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Change the font size from 12 to 8 :) Can add alot more info without changing the page counts :)
Back on topic though.. What i did was created Terendelev.. then had the PC's roll my hero quest dice (which is a d6 with a 3 shields, 2 skulls, 1 scarab) if anyone rolled a scarab they would get to roll on the second table for a Greater (possibility)power. But even with 10 players, nobody did so they all have 1/3/4 abilities.
d4 roll if dont roll scarab
1 Cloudwalking
3 disguise
2 resistance
4 sacred weaponry
Of the extra abilities i came up with this for my options, everything scaled to the Character level of the PC holding the scale, usable 1x per day or week depending on if the power is a higher ability then the PC would have if they were a silver dragon of the same HD as they have currently.
d100 if do roll scarab
01 Graceful flight
02 Blizzard breath
03 Control Weapon
04 Control Winds
05 Detect Evil
06 Feather Fall
07 Fog Cloud
08 Reverse Gravity
09 Detect Magic
10 Flare
11 Light
12 Message
13 Stabalize
14 Resistance
15 Virtue
16 Bless
17 Divine Favor
18 Pro Evil
19 Shield
20 True Strike
21 Augury
22 Calm Emotions
23 Cure Moderate
24 Withdraw
25 Invisibility
26 Web
27 Cure Serious
28 Dispel Magic
29 Hold Person
30 Wind Wall
31 Break Enchantment
32 Flame Strike
33 Plane Shift
34 Wall of Force
35 Banishment
36 Greater Dispel Magic
37 Heal
38 Repulsion
39 Greater Scrying
40 Holy Word
41 Greater Spell Immunity
42 Holy Aura
43 Mass Cure Critical
44 Gate
45 True Resurrection
46 +10 Fly
47 +10 Acrobatics
IF higher then a 48, gain one of the initial 4 abilities usable double times per day.
48-61 Disguise
62-74 Cloudwalking
75-87 Resistance
88-00 Sacred Weaponry
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I agree that more options are needed. I wonder if the fine developers had a few extra they could toss our way that didn't make it in?Nope; only four were built. I'm certainly enjoying seeing what folks come up with for more though! :-)For future consideration: since we RPG'ers are essentially gamblers at heart - I would advocate including around 6 or 8 options when something similar crops up. This caters both for larger play groups as well as make it more viable to roll-your-reward.
Yeah, that would indeed eat into the wordcount. Especially in the case of our current format for new items—ALL of the items have to fit in to that two page entry, and cutting items when one goes over wordcount is not really an option because that increasingly starts to strand Item Cards with no game support.
The basic assumption of number of PCs, their levels, and even the assumption that they're playing core races with core class abilities is absolutely necessary. When preparing a published adventure, we don't have the luxury of knowing the exact layout of the group that's gonna play it, but by making assumptions like this we can produce a baseline adventure that comes close enough. The adjustments to an adventure for a group that deviates from the baseline expectations (such as one that has more than 4 PCs) is the responsibility of the GM.
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Change the font size from 12 to 8 :) Can add alot more info without changing the page counts :)
Other non-options that folks have also suggested over the past many years of RPGs include:
1) Shrink the margins! So much wasted space on the edges of the pages!
2) Get rid of the art! The words are all that's important anyway!
3) Web enhancements! Put the extra stuff up online for free!
4) Make the book bigger!
Alas, all five of those options (including the font option) aren't good ideas for various reasons.
(And yeah, I know it was a joke... but since a lot of folks seem to take these options seriously, I just wanted to step in and say something to the effect of "It is the way it is for a reason.")
Actually, #3 could work, but not for putting NEW items up. Rather, for EXPANDING on items. For instance, additional abilities for the Scales (or guidelines on what types of spells are best suited for the Scales). :)
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Actually, #3 could work, but not for putting NEW items up. Rather, for EXPANDING on items. For instance, additional abilities for the Scales (or guidelines on what types of spells are best suited for the Scales). :)
Actually... #3 doesn't work, because the amount of work we put in on a web enhancement is no different than what we put in for every product. The only time we save is on shipping and printing, which isn't something Editorial is involved in. So each web enhancement we do basically means adding work to an already full schedule, which means that our employees get less time to be with their families or time to unwind because they're working late hours or weekends.
AKA: More web enhancements will lead to more employee burnout, and that leads to a drop in overall product quality. Not a good thing, and not worth the risk in my opinion.
Yes, that's true. And having gone through burnout (GM burnout but still) I'd not wish this on anyone.
i don't see whats so hard about doing the extra powers yourselves, Tangent101 figured out the pattern in the second post the rest is super easy, why should Paizo have to do it all? considering how much time, effort and thought most people put into CHANGING half a chapter how hard it it to come up with a few extra powers.
Admittedly, I run all my games using Savage Worlds - but one guy playing a fighter-type has turned his scale into a small shield that grants the Arcane Resistance edge (+2 TN vs arcane attacks). The others all have them on pendants around their necks, so I've had to be flexible, re: size of each scale.
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Regarding the Cloudwalk ability of the scales - do I miss something here?
Having a CL19th leviate spell would make the whole adventure obsolete, because it would allow at least three pcs to leave thr 230 ft deep cave...
Or is the cave somehow not open to the city above?!
Yeah; that's the case. The cave collapses behind the PCs, pretty much. In order to exit the way they came, they'd have to dig up through a lot of rubble that would likely collapse further if they started shifting it around.
Freedom: Three times per day as a standard action, a scale can be used to cast remove paralysis. The targets receive an additional +1 sacred bonus on saves versus paralysis and effects which cause the staggered condition for three rounds.
Consecration: Three times per day as a standard action, a scale can be used to cast consecrate. If used by a lawful good character, the sacred bonus on positive channeled energy DC's granted by the scale increases by +1.
Those are the two additional scales I'll be handing out for my six player group.
I'm not sure what I'm going to do with a 6th (if that person ever comes back), the one I'm messing with is:
Sight: The user of the scale can cast Darkvision, Communal 1/day. Anyone under the effect of this spell can also see through fog, clouds, and smoke as if they weren't there, even from magical sources.
That's overpowered. Darkvision for one person, sure, if you're going to include the other effects. But not Communal. That's a level 3 spell.
I went with Aid, it's been really helpful in the caves and it isn't super overpowering like shield.
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Not to preform thread necromancy, but I have some built up. I custom made several for my specific party members, and all of them "upgrade" when they reach Mythic Tier 3. I've made 8, not because I think that 8 players is a good Idea, but because I only know three of the players characters yet, and may have up to two more joining, so I wanted something to be available for any new people for me to have a good spot to start from.
Upgrade: Upon reaching Mythic Teir 3, the Scale casts Mythic Draconic Reservoir 1/day instead
Upgrade: Upon Reaching Mythic Teir 3, this scale instead allows you to cast Mythic Daybreak Arrow 1/day, except that all instances
of "undead" are replaced by "evil outsiders".
drink the Positive-energy infused blood to regain 2d6 hp, as a swift action. It continues to bleed for the full duration of the spell (18 more rounds) or until it's bearer is at full HP. If the bearer of this scale does not sup on the blood, it drips to the ground uselessly.
Drinking the blood in this way does not constitute an evil action, and if the bearer would be harmed by positive energy, as long as their alignment is non-evil, it does not harm them and still heals them.
Upgrade: Upon reaching Mythic Teir 3, the blood heals 4d6 hp per round or until it's bearer is at full HP. In addition, if you are a Dhampir,
you gain the Life-Dominant Soul feat while the Scale bleeds.
Upgrade:Upon reaching Mythic Teir 3, the bearer is also affected by a Dispel Evil spell. The Protection from Evil effect remains
for it's full duration, even if the Dispel Evil effect is discharged.
Upgrade: Upon reaching Mythic Teir 3, the Scale instead casts Mythic Consecrate 1/day and The DC to resist positive channeled energy
within it's area gains an additional +4 bonus if channeled by this Scale's bearer
Upgrade: Upon reaching Mythic Teir 3, The Holder of this scale instead can cast Fly 2/day. The affected creature is covered
in a mist that appears as silvery draconic wings, and has concealment (20% miss chance) for the duration of the effect
Upgrade: Upon reaching Mythic Teir 3, the bearer can additionally treat a roll of 2-10 on a single Charisma based skill check as if it were an 11 3/day
Upgrade: Upon reaching Mythic Teir 3, the Scale may be used to cast Heat Metal as well. In addition, the target of the spell is Entangled for it's duration, and the number of dice rolled to determine damage dealt are doubled. This damage is not reduced by elemental resistances, but elemental immunity and elemental absorption still affect the damage dealt by this ability.