The Worldwound Incursion (GM Reference)


Wrath of the Righteous

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Paizo Employee Creative Director

Tangent101 wrote:

I must admit I'm curious about something. Does Mythic Adventures and WotR assume that Hero Points are NOT in use?

I've noticed that a number of the Mythic abilities are quite similar to benefits from using Hero Points. Also, the second book strongly suggested using Hero Points if the GM doesn't want to use the Mythic rules.

(I must admit I'm contemplating using Hero Points for The Worldwound Incursion and then eliminating them when the players become Mythic. This would provide players with a means of escaping death upon reaching 2nd level until they become Mythic, as well as providing a hint at the mythic nature of the characters prior to their Ascension.)

We always assume Hero Points are optional.

They are, in my opinion, a GREAT option, since they help keep PCs alive and are quite useful against turns of bad luck.


Hmm. It seems odd, that's all. After all, Traits are in the same Optional Rules section that Hero Points are, but the general assumption for WotR is that Traits are in use (and in fact are driving certain aspects of the story itself). Hero Points don't seem to have this same vibe for some reason.

(I use them, mind you; I don't like characters dying because of a bad die roll. Heck, I even allow 1 Hero Point to save a character rather than two so to encourage their use. If the players for my future WotR game are willing to use them, I'll include them in that game as well.)

Paizo Employee Creative Director

I've never considered traits to be optional... but they ARE a tiny bit of power creep from the core rulebook which is why they ended up being categorized as optional.

Liberty's Edge

I feel like a noob asking this question but here goes:

When an encounter lists a challenge rating AND a story award is it assumed both awards are given to characters or only one?

For example, B2 in the Abandoned Temple is listed as CR 1 (while I see nothing that should give it any kind of CR) but then states a story award of 200XP per NPC, for a possible total of 400XP. Now, CR 1 is worth 400XP so I assume this is where the story award comes in but there are other encounters that don't add up like that. For example areas E and F both have a listed CR of 4 (1,200XP) but offer an optional story award on 400XP each.

So what does the adventure assume is being awarded?

When I run games I typically get rid of XP and level up by fiat but I always like to do a complete breakdown spreadsheet of all encounters and awards to best determine the insertion of sideplots and best place to level, etc. I don't remember seeing this when I did a breakdown of the first chapter of Reign of Winter, which is my only other experience running a Pathfinder AP.

EDIT:

Some of the story awards are obvious replacements of the CR such as area D awarding 800XP if the mongrelmen are made friendly replacing their CR 3. This area also awards an obvious addition of 400XP.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Joshua Goudreau wrote:

I feel like a noob asking this question but here goes:

When an encounter lists a challenge rating AND a story award is it assumed both awards are given to characters or only one?

For example, B2 in the Abandoned Temple is listed as CR 1 (while I see nothing that should give it any kind of CR) but then states a story award of 200XP per NPC, for a possible total of 400XP. Now, CR 1 is worth 400XP so I assume this is where the story award comes in but there are other encounters that don't add up like that. For example areas E and F both have a listed CR of 4 (1,200XP) but offer an optional story award on 400XP each.

So what does the adventure assume is being awarded?

When I run games I typically get rid of XP and level up by fiat but I always like to do a complete breakdown spreadsheet of all encounters and awards to best determine the insertion of sideplots and best place to level, etc. I don't remember seeing this when I did a breakdown of the first chapter of Reign of Winter, which is my only other experience running a Pathfinder AP.

EDIT:

Some of the story awards are obvious replacements of the CR such as area D awarding 800XP if the mongrelmen are made friendly replacing their CR 3. This area also awards an obvious addition of 400XP.

You always get XP for defeating monsters and traps and stuff (this isn't the encounter's CR, but the actual XP totals listed for monsters and traps in the encounter). Story award XP is in addition to all of that.

The CR 1 notation in area B2 is in fact an error; there was at one point a minor encounter there with a giant fly, but I removed it to put in the more detailed NPC Reactions section. I then forgot to omit the (CR 1) from the encounter. Which is another reason why you shouldn't use the CR notation as an XP indicator—the CR notation (except when it's an error, as in this case) is there pretty much just for you the GM to have a quick and easy reference for the encounter difficulty, so that in play you can make last minute adjustments if you wish to, for example, warn off weakened PCs, or add a few extra things to bolster an encounter against tougher PCs.

Silver Crusade

B2 The CR1 challenge is to make the NPC's not do what they would naturally do. Via diplomacy or possibly intimidation.

In the D example. Defeating the three Mongrels would be worth 1200 XP (400*3).. Which is the most you can get for helping them.

In E, getting across a 10' gap isnt exactly a CR4 challange.. the difficulty is more of a level 1 challange.

In F, its mostly for a perception check and a knowledge check, hence the CR1 reward. The creature itself as im sure you know is a CR5 if they were to fight it.

In this and the other path i ran, and the two paths i played in. Story Awards were added ontop of the encounter awards if there was combat or something.


DanP wrote:
Cool stuff with an extra helping of flavor

Great start, should've given the PCs a high level of immersion and pushes them right in!

But 7 PCs at lvl 2--oh, boy, sounds like a lot of work to make the following encounters still representing a challenge to the group.

Ruyan.

Liberty's Edge

Joshua Goudreau wrote:
...questions...
James Jacobs wrote:
...answers...
Klokk wrote:
...also answers...

I was wondering if that was a typo. Thank you for the clarifications.

For the most part the XP awards are pretty logical and intuitive but there were a few that had me scratching my head and wondering what the intention was.


I have a little problem - probably because i'm not very experienced as GM.

My players know Pathfinder a lot better than me. Their characters are very optimazed.

Most ecounters are blast - they finish them so quick that sometimes monsters can't do anything. In ecounter in Black Wing Library oponents couldn't do even a single action - they were tripped to death.

How would you advice to make ecounters harder and more challenging for players but not gamebreaking at the same time? I don't want to have TPK, but i really feel this AP is too easy for them.


Roll dice behind the screen and have the monsters win initiative.

Liberty's Edge

Arkadiusz Dydziński wrote:

I have a little problem - probably because i'm not very experienced as GM.

My players know Pathfinder a lot better than me. Their characters are very optimazed.

Most ecounters are blast - they finish them so quick that sometimes monsters can't do anything. In ecounter in Black Wing Library oponents couldn't do even a single action - they were tripped to death.

How would you advice to make ecounters harder and more challenging for players but not gamebreaking at the same time? I don't want to have TPK, but i really feel this AP is too easy for them.

I am wary of something in your post. You said they were tripped to death. Were the PCs using the attack of opportunity generated by the NPC standing up to trip them again? I ask because that does not work. The attack of opportunity happens before the target is standing, so they can not be tripped at that time. I only mention this because you mentioned your inexperience and that is easy to miss.


I think he means the foes were tripped and then attacked as they stood. Then next round they'd be tripped... and attacked as they stood.

Do note: if a trip attempt fails, the tripper can become the tripee.

Also, an enemy can attempt an Acrobatics roll to roll away from foes without triggering AoO (I asked about this recently and it was confirmed). So Acrobatics can help enemies move away from a tripping foe.

By the way, did they have the Improved Trip Feat? Without that, they suffer an AoO when tripping.


Tangent101 wrote:
So Acrobatics can help enemies move away from a tripping foe.

What would the DC be for this? Would it be a static number, based on the opponent's CMD, or other?


Just bought the module from my favorite FLAGS (Sentry Box Calgary!). Anyway, read it over 3 times already. I love it. If this is Amber's first published adventure then kudos on an exceptional job.

I really, really like the detailed inclusion of the NPC's from the start, and the detailed backgrounds. Somewhat conincidental that in a city of 12,000 they have all had previos interactions, but I'll wave that off as fate.

The only thing I would have changed is the devotional points mechanic. I love the idea but I have to admit stopping to cast mend item on a helmet while guards are reacting to your presence seems hard to reconcile.


Tangent101 wrote:

I think he means the foes were tripped and then attacked as they stood. Then next round they'd be tripped... and attacked as they stood.

Do note: if a trip attempt fails, the tripper can become the tripee.

Also, an enemy can attempt an Acrobatics roll to roll away from foes without triggering AoO (I asked about this recently and it was confirmed). So Acrobatics can help enemies move away from a tripping foe.

By the way, did they have the Improved Trip Feat? Without that, they suffer an AoO when tripping.

That's correct. They have Improved Trip - our fighter is builded around tripping enemies so he rarely fails (but thx for info that tripper can become tripee if he fails - i didn't know that). I will try to use Acrobatic - i forgot about this skill and evading AoO.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

I've been looking at the Exp for this book, and it says that you should get enough exp to go from level 5 to level 6 between the Minotaur, Jeslyn and the wardstone/babues. I added it up and it totals 20500, about 2500 short for to hit level 6 (per player). I'm not sure where the extra exp is supposed to come from.

Experience totals per part
Part 1: 1800
Part 2: 3300
Part 3: 5100 (varies depending on randoms)
Part 4: 5500
Wardstone/Babues: 4800
Total: 20500


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There is a 35 percent chance of a random encounter while underground per hour. There is a second encounter chart for Kenabres (above ground) as well; while it doesn't give the time or percentage, I'd say keeping it at 35 percent per hour is still viable.


For the above ground I'm pretty sure they mean for you to hit one in between every area above ground.
Not sure if I read this in it, or just made it up.

I think it's in there somewhere though.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Yeah, the random encounter for underground works out to about a 100% chance of 1 encounter and Ekeli, you're right, it does say that you get one random between each location. Both of these are included in the numbers I put up before (part 3 varies b/c it depends on the encounters you get on the amount of exp you get).


Stat Blocks Question-
For the Fiendish Minotaur on pg. 50, I'm trying to get the numbers straight for his damage bonus with the power attack with a greataxe...
Would it read like this? Power Attack- greataxe (+8/+3; 3d6+9??)
I'm terrible with crunch.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
GreenGrunt wrote:

Stat Blocks Question-

For the Fiendish Minotaur on pg. 50, I'm trying to get the numbers straight for his damage bonus with the power attack with a greataxe...
Would it read like this? Power Attack- greataxe (+8/+3; 3d6+9??)
I'm terrible with crunch.

His BAB is +6, so that means he would get -2 to attacks with PA. With a two handed weapon -2 translates to +6 to damage.

So his new attack line would read

Power Attack- greataxe +7/+2 (3d6+12/x3)


Thank you j b...
So the minotaur has up to two increments of -1 penalties as per the power attack rolls, but he can add up to an additional +4 damage with his great axe, and since he's using a two handed weapon that's another +2 (50% of the +4)!!

Then you add on the +6 damage with the smite good ability, which would translate to +18 damage!! Fiendish minotaur=low lvl paladin slayer.
Ouch!

There is no stats for the height and weight of the Minotaur in the Bestiary first printing, nor do I find it in the errata. : (


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
GreenGrunt wrote:

Thank you j b...

So the minotaur has up to two increments of -1 penalties as per the power attack rolls, but he can add up to an additional +4 damage with his great axe, and since he's using a two handed weapon that's another +2 (50% of the +4)!!

Then you add on the +6 damage with the smite good ability, which would translate to +18 damage!! Fiendish minotaur=low lvl paladin slayer.
Ouch!

There is no stats for the height and weight of the Minotaur in the Bestiary first printing, nor do I find it in the errata. : (

No problem, don't forget he's got a -1 to hit from smite good as well b/c of 8 Cha. For size... the 3.5 Minotaur is 7ft tall and 700 pounds


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Unless there is a ruling I am unaware of, the Minotaur does not take a penalty from having a negative CHA modifier. Smite Good allows it to add a Charisma bonus if applicable, it does not require the subject to take a penalty.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

We do try to put sizes and weights for our monsters in the books... but when we don't... that's an indication that there just wasn't room to do so for that monster. It's not something we can errata, since there's no room for it.


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Tactics Notes: This is just a GM reference for some of the NPCs in The Worldwound Incursion.
Alot of the spells I can't remember so I jot some notes as to effects and what not, so it will hopefully prevent me from burning the pages of rule books as I scramble to look at what does what when an NPC casts a spell. I was able to take notes up to Faxon, at which point, my brain exploded. I hope this helps anyone who is considering running this adventure. As an aside, I never really appreciated how deadly this adventure can be to low lvl parties until I started reading up on what these NPCs can be capable of (especially Faxon)... I modified the fiendish beetle because I would think it would have to be a little intelligent to cast smite good on opponents.

Millorn's Tactics
-Casts Blur (duration: 3 minutes), grants concealment (20% miss chance)
Spells: 0-4 1-3 2- 2
*Mage Armor- Duration: 3 hours (AC in stat block, otherwise AC 10)
*1 magic missle spell: Casts 2 magic missles @ 1d4+1/Range: 130 ft.
*1 Color Spray Spell: Range 15 ft. cone, Will DC save of 13/ PCs are unconscious, blinded, and stunned for 2d4 rounds, then blinded and stunned for 1d4 rounds, and then stunned for 1 round. (Only living creatures are knocked unconscious)

Hosilla's Tactics
Magic Weapon- Duration: 3 minutes; gives glaive a +1 to attack and damage (+5/1d10+3/x3; otherwise +4 to attack and +2 to damage)
Shield of Faith- Duration: 3 minutes; gives Hosilla a +2 deflection bonus to AC (already in stat block, otherwise AC 16)
Virtue Duration: 1 minute; gives Hosilla 1 temporary hit point (22 hp?)
Wand of Spiritual Weapon: Range-130 ft. Duration: 3 rounds; +3 to Attack, Damage 1d8+1 (45 charges)
Touch of Evil- 5x day for 1 round, melee touch attack, creatures are sickened for 1 round; sickened condition: target takes a -2 penalty on attk rolls,saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks.
Judgement of Destruction: 1/day: increases damage bonus of glaive to +4
Favored Judgement (Human) when fighting humans Hosilla gets a damage bonus +4 with the glaive (+5 damage if used in conjunction with Judgement of Destruction)
Judgment of Healing: When reduced to 6 hp, Hosilla switches to this judgment, giving her fast healing 1.
Cultists-
Protection from Good: Duration: 1 min; Effects: +2 Deflection bonus to AC and a +2 resistance bonus to saves vs. Good aligned creatures. Cultists gain another saving throw against spells or effects that possess or exercise mental control over the cultist; this save is with a +2 morale bonus. If successful, such effects are suppressed for the duration of the protection spell. While under the effects of this spell, the cultist is immune to any new attempts to possess or exercise mental control over the target. (New Cultist AC is 15 v. good creatures)
Command Range: 30 ft. Duration: 1 round Save: Will DC 14 Options: Approach- moves to cultist as quickly as possible, provoking attacks of opportunity; target can do nothing else but move. Drop- On its turn, the target drops whatever it is holding and cannot pick it up until the next turn. Fall- target falls to ground and remains prone for 1 round. It may act normally but suffers appropriate penalties (-4 to melee attacks, can move only 5 feet as a move action, standing up requires a move action and provokes attacks of opportunity; target that is prone cannot use ranged weapons except for crossbows and shuriken) Flee- On its turn, the target moves quickly away from the cultist. It may do nothing but move and provokes attacks of opportunity. Halt- The target stays in place for 1 round. It may not take any actions but it is not considered helpless.

Vagorg's tactics:
Potion of Invisibility- Duration: 2 minutes Effect: Stationary creatures that are invisible get a +40 bonus on their Stealth checks. Bonus is reduced to +20 Stealth if Vagorg is moving. If Vagorg attacks via spell or glaive the invisibility ends. Vagorg is in total concealment while invisible, attackers have a 50% chance to miss if they attack his square.
Mage Armor- Duration: 5 hours/ AC is reflected in stat block (Otherwise AC 15 w/o Shield)
Shield- Duration: 5 minutes/AC is reflected in stat block (Otherwise AC 15 w/o Mage Armor; AC 11 w/o either Mage Armor or Shield)
Summon Monster 1: Duration- 5 rounds; Range: 35 ft. Casting time: full-round action (Vagorg will cast this spell 4-5 times if possible)
Fiendish Fire Beetle: CR 1/3; XP 135; CE small vermin; +0 Initiative Senses low-light vision; Perception +0
AC: 12, touch 11, flat-footed 12 (+1 natural, +1 size)
hp 4 (1d8)
Fort +2, Ref +0, Will +0
Immune mind-affecting effects
Resistance: cold 5, fire 5
Offense
Speed 30 ft., 30 ft. fly (poor)
Melee bite +1 (1d4)
Smite Good 1/day ( bite is 1d4+1 damage against good creatures)
Stats
Str 10, Dex 11, Con 11, Int 4, Wis 10, Cha 7
Base Atk +0, CMB -1; CMD 9 (17 vs. trip)
Skills Fly-2
SQ luminescence
Treasure none
Luminescence (Ex) A fire beetle's glowing glands provide light in a 10-foot radius. A dead beetle's luminescent glands continue to glow for 1d6 days after its death.
Bull's Strength- if cast: cast time- 1 standard action/Duration: 5 minutes- Vagorg's Str increases to 17, giving him +6 to hit with his ranseur of the gargoyle (2d4+4/x3) and increasing his BAB to 4; CMB +5, CMD 16

Faxon's Tactics
Blindness/Deafness: Range 150 ft./Casting Time- 1 standard action/Duration: permanent/Save: Fort DC 16/Faxon must choose either blind or deaf for affected target: Blind: -2 penalty to AC, loses Dex bonus to AC (if any), takes a -4 penalty on Str and Dex checks and on opposed Perception checks. All opponents are considered to be in total concealment vs. blinded character (50% chance to hit). Blinded characters must make a DC 10 Acrobatics check to move faster than half speed. If this fails, character falls prone. (Core Book- pg. 565) Deafened: Character takes a -4 penalty on initiative checks, automatically fails on Perception checks based on sound, and has a 20% chance of spell failure when casting spells with verbal components. (Core Book- pg. 566)
Bestow Curse: Range touch; Casting Time- 1 standard; Duration: permanent; Save Will DC 17; Places a curse on character, Faxon chooses a -6 decrease to Str score of fighter types
Vampiric Touch: Range: touch; Casting Time: 1 standard; Duration: instantaneous/1 hour; Save none; Melee touch attack deals 2d6 damage. Faxon gains temporary hp equal to the damage dealt. Temporary hp disappear 1 hr later. Faxon cannot gain more than target's hp + Con score.
Hex- Evil Eye: Save Will DC 16 (reduces effect to 1 round), standard action- does not provoke attk of opportunity, 30 ft. range, duration: 7 rounds (see save), effects: either a -2 attack roll on fighter type or a -2 skill check on spellcasters.
Hex- Misfortune: Save Will DC 16, standard action- does not provoke attk of opportunity, 30 ft. range, duration: 1 round (Will negates hex), effects: any time target takes an ability check, attack roll, saving throw, or skill check, it must roll twice and take the worse result. Same creature can't be targeted by hex more than once per day.
Burning Gaze: Range 30 ft.; Casting Time: 1 standard; Duration: 5 rounds; Save Fort DC 15; Effect: target (1 target only) looked at takes 1d6 fire damage initially; burning creatures must make a Reflex save DC 15 to quench flames or catch fire, taking another 1d6 points of fire damage. Flammable objects worn by target must also save or take the same damage as the target. If a creature is already on fire, it suffers no additional damage from burning gaze.
Charm Person: Range 35 ft.; Casting Time: 1 standard; Duration: 5 hours; Save Will DC 15; Effect- charms humanoids (1 target) to ally and friendly status (see Core Book- pg. 254)
Command: Range: 35 ft.; Casting Time: 1 standard; Duration: 1 round; Save Will DC 15; Effect- Faxon chooses one of the following commands: Approach- moves to cultist as quickly as possible, provoking attacks of opportunity; target can do nothing else but move. Drop- On its turn, the target drops whatever it is holding and cannot pick it up until the next turn. Fall- target falls to ground and remains prone for 1 round. It may act normally but suffers appropriate penalties (-4 to melee attacks, can move only 5 feet as a move action, standing up requires a move action and provokes attacks of opportunity; target that is prone cannot use ranged weapons except for crossbows and shuriken) Flee- On its turn, the target moves quickly away from the cultist. It may do nothing but move and provokes attacks of opportunity. Halt- The target stays in place for 1 round. It may not take any actions but it is not considered helpless.
Burning Hands: Range: 15 ft. cone; Casting Time: 1 standard; Save Ref DC 15; Effect 5d4 fire damage


Is Othirubo's Dex boost from his Mutagen already included in the stat block on pg. 47?


Once the PCs get to H2, they have a number of options. But the path to Hosilla's quarters isn't on the way out, in fact you have to go down, which seem counter to way the PCs have been going. I can't find any reason for the PCs to go that way (except on accident) other than just telling them they need to explore and missing Hosilla's quarters seems to be a big mistake.

Any suggestions on how to get the PCs to head towards Hosilla's quarters, instead of just going up and out?


What about overhearing the two cultists talking about the really nice sword (Radiance) Hosilla has stashed away downstairs?


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Grayn wrote:

Once the PCs get to H2, they have a number of options. But the path to Hosilla's quarters isn't on the way out, in fact you have to go down, which seem counter to way the PCs have been going. I can't find any reason for the PCs to go that way (except on accident) other than just telling them they need to explore and missing Hosilla's quarters seems to be a big mistake.

Any suggestions on how to get the PCs to head towards Hosilla's quarters, instead of just going up and out?

The PC's don't know which way is out so it's a 50/50 that they got the right/wrong way. Also they agreed to clear out the den for Neatholm, so if they skip out they lose the help from Neatholm in Part 4.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Is it just me, or may it be that a part of Horgus first interactions with the PC's is missing? His paragraph is, compared to Anevia's and Aravashniel's, suspiciously short and there is another point: His promise of 1000 gold to escort him to the surface. Namely, there is an allusion to how he promised the PC's that sum a page earlier, but the wording seems to refer to another part in the text, a part which just isn't there.

On page nine it says: "If made helpful, he increases his promised reward if the PCs get him to the surface from 1,000 gp to 2,000 gp,..." As I said, this alludes that he somewhere makes a promise of this reward, but that section never appears. The next mention of this reward also alludes to this promise which never appeared in the text elsewhere.

In case that a paragraph was swallowed up by editor demons, I'd love to see it back here, given that Horgus got relatively little set-up for his interactions, in comparison to Anevia and Aravashniel. :)


Looking for ideas for (MY PLAYERS STAY OUT!):

Spoiler:
Millorn being charm person'ed before any actual combat began. He's friendly now (at least to the charmer) and I'm trying to think up some suitable backstory ties into it. Right now he's told them the Crusader's have been after him for his experiments in draining energies from demons to use for arcane might and learning spells from captured demons.


@DM Pendin Fust:
Well, Millorn is supposed to be mad - paranoid. There's an appropriate insanity in the Gamemastery Guide. If the PCs want to bring Millorn along and try to fix him, he should have that for a while. Perhaps it can 'upgrade' to the same-named Drawback from Ultimate Campaign before being cured, assuming the PCs don't use powerful magic to simply fix it.

As for tying him into the overarching story - perhaps had a run-in with cultists from above, maybe even working for them briefly before splitting off due to a difference of interests. Have there be a line of depravity that Millorn was not willing to cross, and the PCs can use that to bring him back to the light.


Hmmm good thoughts Thanis. I honestly didn't even think about using those rules.


I'm curious if anyone else has considered replacing the current demonic horde that happens at the end of Worldwound with a pair of Vrocks (which is close to a CR-11 encounter) to make it more... dangerous. I mean, as-written the final battle is a curbstomp against the demons. That seems a bit anti-climactic to me, so I was thinking of upping the ante a bit with something that can actually HURT the characters despite the damage reduction and regeneration.

Thoughts?


If I could go back and redo it...probably yeah. Maybe not to Vrock, but I would have upped it somehow as even the players said it was rather anti-climatic after everything else that occurred. Though, even knocking their DR down by 5 could have turned it into a much different fight so they could at least be hurt.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Tangent101 wrote:

I'm curious if anyone else has considered replacing the current demonic horde that happens at the end of Worldwound with a pair of Vrocks (which is close to a CR-11 encounter) to make it more... dangerous. I mean, as-written the final battle is a curbstomp against the demons. That seems a bit anti-climactic to me, so I was thinking of upping the ante a bit with something that can actually HURT the characters despite the damage reduction and regeneration.

Thoughts?

I would recommend no.

The point of the encounter isn't to endanger the PCs. The point is to throw them up against a foe that they normally would be slaughtered by but to let their new powers turn the fight into a cakewalk.

I suspect that Vrocks are powerful enough that they'll be able to still threaten the PCs, even with their enhanced powers. Especially when you throw in some of their spell-like abilities and defenses, and their spores (which bypass damage reduction), and their mobility.


James, just curious...do you have any expanded backstory on Millorn floating around?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

So, I guess that's a "no" on Horgus possibly missing any of his text? Then why the weird phrasing of his promise of a reward?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

DM Pendin Fust wrote:
James, just curious...do you have any expanded backstory on Millorn floating around?

I do not.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

magnuskn wrote:
So, I guess that's a "no" on Horgus possibly missing any of his text? Then why the weird phrasing of his promise of a reward?

It's not. It's a "I missed the question." Hold on...

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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magnuskn wrote:

Is it just me, or may it be that a part of Horgus first interactions with the PC's is missing? His paragraph is, compared to Anevia's and Aravashniel's, suspiciously short and there is another point: His promise of 1000 gold to escort him to the surface. Namely, there is an allusion to how he promised the PC's that sum a page earlier, but the wording seems to refer to another part in the text, a part which just isn't there.

On page nine it says: "If made helpful, he increases his promised reward if the PCs get him to the surface from 1,000 gp to 2,000 gp,..." As I said, this alludes that he somewhere makes a promise of this reward, but that section never appears. The next mention of this reward also alludes to this promise which never appeared in the text elsewhere.

In case that a paragraph was swallowed up by editor demons, I'd love to see it back here, given that Horgus got relatively little set-up for his interactions, in comparison to Anevia and Aravashniel. :)

Looks like there might be some text that got cut or lost. Indeed, when Horgus first encounters the PCs, he should offer them 1,000 gp if they can get him out of the dark alive.

And I wouldn't say "swallowed up by editor demons" at all. If anything, it was swallowed up by developer demons (me).

That said, he doesn't get a lot of setup for his interactions, because of the three NPCs, he has the least to offer the group. Other than a reward.


Tangent101 wrote:

I'm curious if anyone else has considered replacing the current demonic horde that happens at the end of Worldwound with a pair of Vrocks (which is close to a CR-11 encounter) to make it more... dangerous. I mean, as-written the final battle is a curbstomp against the demons. That seems a bit anti-climactic to me, so I was thinking of upping the ante a bit with something that can actually HURT the characters despite the damage reduction and regeneration.

Thoughts?

I have. My first idea was to replace half of the babaus with one vrock (same CR). Then I tought the same as you (two vrocks). My last idea involves doing two or three waves of demons (dretches/babaus/one vrock?), so players can feel powerful but at the same time feel some danger.

As written, I feel the combat is underwhelming, even more if you have previously killed or nearly killed Jeslyn just by making the wardstone explode (average damage is 70 vs Jeslyn's 80 hp). My players would probably look at me and say "So... That's it??"

This adventure lacks a powerful demon boss at the end.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:

Looks like there might be some text that got cut or lost. Indeed, when Horgus first encounters the PCs, he should offer them 1,000 gp if they can get him out of the dark alive.

And I wouldn't say "swallowed up by editor demons" at all. If anything, it was swallowed up by developer demons (me).

That said, he doesn't get a lot of setup for his interactions, because of the three NPCs, he has the least to offer the group. Other than a reward.

Thanks, that was exactly what I was looking for (aside from possible additional set-up flavor for Horgus, but I can provide that on my own, too ^^)! :)


My players really liked the Mongrelmen. I am thinking of opening the race up for replacement characters. It looks like they would be about 12 RP based on 3 monstrous humanoid, 3 natural AC, say 4 for the racial skills and limit them to +2 stealth/sleight of hand, 1 for slam attack, maybe 1 for the mimic ability. I am thinking standard stats (+2 CON, +2 WIS, -2 CHA). What do people think?


What about just use the bestiary rules and treat the mongrelmen as CR 1 monsters to use as a PCs?
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/monstersAsPCs.html


James Jacobs wrote:
DM Pendin Fust wrote:
James, just curious...do you have any expanded backstory on Millorn floating around?
I do not.

This is exactly the reason I've cut Millorn from my game. His story doesn't make a great deal of sense and just comes across as filler. I'd much rather have the party come across a dretch here.


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I'm still using Millorn, but I gave him a quasit familiar and made him one of Hosilla's subordinates. Its theoretically his job to sound the alert if something nasty comes up from the Darklands. Actually, its just an excuse for her to park her craziest subordinate out on an extended mission where she doesn't have to put up with his bad habits in the barracks.


Chuckg wrote:
I'm still using Millorn, but I gave him a quasit familiar and made him one of Hosilla's subordinates. Its theoretically his job to sound the alert if something nasty comes up from the Darklands. Actually, its just an excuse for her to park her craziest subordinate out on an extended mission where she doesn't have to put up with his bad habits in the barracks.

I like that rationale a lot

Liberty's Edge

Out of curiosity, is the 8 hours of work to cleanse the temple to Torag in area B intended to represent 8 person-hours (i.e., a four-person party can accomplish it in two hours) or 32 person-hours (i.e., a four-person party can accomplish it in eight hours)?

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