Made some changes to War Soul.
Some of you get your cake and get to eat it too. In playtest, that 1st level feat is -super- important.
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I really like the idea, but I can't shake the feeling that it gets a lot without really giving up very much. 6 levels of maneuvers is pretty clearly way better than psychic strike, especially with stances. Plus access to really powerful blade skills...
I'm not sure what I'd recommend instead, other than trading out more bladeskills, though.
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Well... the thing is Psychic Strike adds at most 6d8 damage with Powerful Strikes at 19th level. 27 damage that isn't multiplied on a critical, and requires a move action (or burning psionic focus and a swift action) to recover. It's not really worth spending actions to get back in the middle of combat, which means you're going to get a maximum of three hits with it in a fight if you burn your focus and use two weapon fighting.
Using your focus for a psychic strike means no Focused Defense, Focused Offense, Reaching Blade, etc. So you're probably just getting one, or two with two weapon fighting.
(Before it gets brought up, Exploding Critical actually sucks out loud. It burns your psionic focus... which you could have done anyway with a swift action.)
Meanwhile with 6 levels of maneuvers you get between 3 and 7 readied maneuvers, which can be recovered by slaying enemies (no loss in action economy). This maneuvers can be harsh or extremely protective counters, boosts that let you increase your power using your oft-unused swift actions (no other abilities aside from the now lost psychic strike charge via focus compete with them), or strikes to let you get effective hits in when you have to move. It gives you access to some crazy powerful blade skills, like Broken Blade Attitude that gives a hefty +1 to +4 AC bonus and even more reason to use Focused Offense, Discipline Blade Shapes which makes the Soul Bolt redundant (especially with Solar Wind maneuvers), Thrashing Dragon Assault which gives some absolutely absurd damage hit and damage bonuses that stack with everything, and Veiled Moon Mystery which lets you pick up freaking Hide in Plain Sight at 8th level.
Psychic Strike does between 1d8 and 3d8 damage (4.5 to 13.5) at 3rd level to between 6d8 and 18d8 damage (27 to 81) at 19th level over the course of a battle. And that's assuming you burn your focus on it and take a blade skill to support it.
Maneuvers, only looking at Thrashing Dragon for simplicity, still beat out Psychic Strike. Things like Flick of the Wrist that lets you auto-disarm someone if you can hit them twice (orders of magnitude easier than using disarm), Hurricane of Fangs which let you get some solid ranged hits in with a sizable damage increase (which can crit, unlike Psychic Strike), Reflexive Twist which can ensure you don't fail a reflex save when it's important, Rending Claws which piles more damage onto full attacks, etc. Solid counters, devastating boosts, and a mix of standard action attacks for when you can't full attack and full attack boosters and ranged options.
I mean, compare Hurricane of Fangs to all of Psychic Strike.
At 11th level, when you get it, Psychic Strike just increased to 3d8 (or 13.5) damage. A total of 9d8 (40.5) damage if you activate it three times.
Hurricane of Fangs lets you full attack someone from 50 feet away. At this level you're getting 6 attacks (7 if you're hasted), and Hurricane of Fangs is adding 11 damage to each of those. Now, you're not going to hit with every attack. Assuming you miss half of those, you still almost meet the damage dealt by all 3 of Psychic Strike's hits over the course of the entire battle- but you still have other maneuvers, and if you kill something you could recover Hurricane of Fangs and use it again without any loss of actions or psionic focus.
Stances have some incredible effects too. Like Battle Dragon's Stance that effectively gives you +2 to hit, +4 to damage, and +4 to initiative which stacks with everything. Even Inner Sphere stance (available at 1st level) gives a fantastic +2 dodge bonus to AC and +2 morale bonus to Will saves.
Psychic Strike just can't compete.
To anyone calling the archetype OP I would like to remind them that the "Gifted Blade" archetype exists and that it has a really amazing power list.
Also their is a popular opinion that Base Soulknife is underpowered because of Psychic Strike. Many claim that the Gifted Blade archetype was required to make Soulknife work.
Yeah. But that's all it does, damage. Maneuvers come with defensive benefits (especially the stuff attendant with stances) and utility options that don't involved just doing more damage... while matching the damage benefits of psychic strike or being more effective. Plus it actually works on mindless creatures.
Though, if the goal really is to increase the overall power of the class through this and Gifted Blade, you shouldn't just do that through archetypes. Errata it, post an update, whatever. Forcing people to use ostensibly optional material to bring a class up to the power level you want probably isn't a good idea.
I wouldn't call it optional considering Gifted Blade is happily in the same book as Ult Psionics.
Also I am not talking about the intent of the devs with either of the classes, I am only commenting that a similar archetype exists and their are precedents for strong archetypes from both DSP and Paizo.
Gifted blade gets a very small power point pool, so it offsets against unlimited use psychic strike.
It's certainly a strong archetype, but I consider the base soulknife solid enough that you aren't weaker for not taking it.
Gifted blade gets a very small power point pool, so it offsets against unlimited use psychic strike.
It's certainly a strong archetype, but I consider the base soulknife solid enough that you aren't weaker for not taking it.
Agreed with Jeremy here. I think the soulknife as it stands is a solid choice for a character, especially with the myriad of blade skills available in UltPsi. War Soul ups the ante some, because, frankly, Path of War is able to fit into any campaign, but it does increase the overall potency of martial characters.
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Contemplative Wilder. Vitalist. Erudite Psion to a degree. I think Tactician, but I'm not sure.
When can Vitalist do that? I've rolled one or two before and don't recall that ability, though I might have just not gotten high enough level.
Vitalist can change his powers known every day starting at level 1.
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Yeah. But that's all it does, damage. Maneuvers come with defensive benefits (especially the stuff attendant with stances) and utility options that don't involved just doing more damage... while matching the damage benefits of psychic strike or being more effective. Plus it actually works on mindless creatures.
Just spit-balling here: Perhaps replace the blade skills learned at 4th, 10th, and 16th? It roughly lines up with when the War Soul would learn new stances and the lost blade skills are made up in utility from the stances/maneuvers.
Vitalist can change his powers known every day starting at level 1.
Wow, I somehow completely did not notice that. The more you know~
Yeah. But that's all it does, damage. Maneuvers come with defensive benefits (especially the stuff attendant with stances) and utility options that don't involved just doing more damage... while matching the damage benefits of psychic strike or being more effective. Plus it actually works on mindless creatures.Just spit-balling here: Perhaps replace the blade skills learned at 4th, 10th, and 16th? It roughly lines up with when the War Soul would learn new stances and the lost blade skills are made up in utility from the stances/maneuvers.
I really like this, it feels somewhat closer to an even trade.
Doing a little shuffle with war soul. Pulling the recovery feature to 4th, and dropping a blade skill at 10th level to bring it down a little (it coincides perfectly with a stance gain).
Taking too many more out I think would gut out what makes it a soulknife.
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I finally made time to run some playtest stuff with the Harbinger. I can't post the detailed kind of data that I did with the core materials because all I got over here are hastily scrawled notes and gibberish.
The Harbinger did about as well as the other PoW classes, beating people to death with their own arms and such. Like pretty much everyone else, he failed miserably at killing the mob of sorcerers. Too many magic missiles for anyone.
Claim makes is insanely easy to get back maneuvers, which I guess is good since I never felt like I had a lot of them. Against multiple opponents like the buccaneers, big cats, and so forth, making a bunch of claims and then laughing your way to the morgue with the bodies of his opponents was a cinch thanks to dark authority punching their attack rolls in the butt.
At level 10, huntsman's curse followed by persecution was basically a death sentence and returned those maneuvers for killing a claimed enemy. Persecution might be stronger than it needs to be.
Thanks for the info Yuengling. As always, you're making our job easier! Did you try this out with any of the Harbinger archetypes (or any of your other tests with archetypes at all for that matter)?
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I did not use an archetype for this or the others. I can tell you my next character is going to be a Soul Hunter moving into Umbral Blade becausse those things are sweet as hell.
Glad you like those!
Expect more Claiming support in PoW2 for that and the Harbinger :)
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It's the end of the 11th hour for Path of War; if there's something in there that I haven't addressed already that you can think of, please bring it up now. I'm doing my final read through and checking for last minute bits; after that it hits the errata sheet. Let's try to make that sheet as small as possible to non-existent.
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For good or for ill, final changes have been submitted.
*waves goodbye to Path of War 1*
Alright, now that that ship has finally launched (sorry guys I took so long!), full steam ahead on Path of War 2. I think we'll have Zealot sometime this week and sometime shortly after that we'll have the Mystic.
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And what a fine ship she is. I cannot wait to see her return to port, with a shiny new PDF paintjob.
My body is ready!
Just confirming...
Harbringer is PoW2?
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My body is ready!
Just confirming...
Harbringer is PoW2?
Yup, it's in PoW2. It'll be the first released with the new booklet set when that gets started. After that, likely Zealot and then Mystic and maybe another supplementary content booklet. Similar formula unless we decide something different along the way.
-X
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"Soon" :)
But more seriously:
I'm working to get the layout feel less "psionics" and more "combat."
I'm still wrapping up the Table of Contents (should be done today)
There are a couple final graphics that are going in that I'm waiting to receive.
If the layout goes well, should be out this week.
I'm working to get the layout feel less "psionics" and more "combat."
First: psionic is awesome. A psionic Warder would be even more awesome.
Second: The old Werewolf the Apopcolypse hand cut marks in the cover. It would be expensive, but if you could add a axe cut to the cover, that would awesome.
Third: I was going to suggest wrapping the whole thing in metal, as if it was made from cast off plate mail. But then I remembered that some stalkers and others didn't wear armor, and to represent them, at least part of the cover would have to have a more...fleshy cover. And that's just...ick.
Fourth: speaking of psionic warders, are there any plans to make slight class alterations to make martial characters psionic? Similar to what happened in the Ultimate Psionic handbook, where the core classes got their adjustments?
I can understand if yawl don't; that would create a precedent where you would have to make psionic and martial adaptions for the 'Akashic Mysteries' (or worse, 'psionic martial adaptions'), and so one for the rest yawl's publishing career. But since psionics & martial charactes are so much more awesome than anything else, I won't complain if you do stop there.
Design Manager
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I can understand if yawl don't; that would create a precedent where you would have to make psionic and martial adaptions for the 'Akashic Mysteries' (or worse, 'psionic martial adaptions'), and so one for the rest yawl's publishing career. But since psionics & martial charactes are so much more awesome than anything else, I won't complain if you do stop there.
LOL! So, there are actually some initiator/psionic archetypes and PrCs on this project, and over in Akashic Mysteries (my baby) there are already some preliminary psionic/akashic archetypes available, and some plans for initiator/akashic combos at some point in the future.
The big thing is that we're not going to try and force things together; if it makes sense to have an entire discipline blending veils and maneuvers, we'll do that. If it just doesn't make any sense at all for two power sources, or two classes, or what have you to come together, then we're not going to force them into some tortured construct just to try and make it work.
Chris, Jeremy, or Andreas may have a slightly different take on that (and really it's Jeremy and Andreas who matter), but I suspect they'll say largely the same thing, with maybe a bit more insight into their particular fields of expertise.
You know what I'd like to see (and/or build myself)? A Warder/Dread combo who combines his Marks with Terrors.
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That pretty much covers it. When it makes sense, we'll blend them. If it doesn't, we won't. It's not going to be mandatory (either from a development perspective or from a player perspective), it would be options and only if they work.
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My wallet cringes. I look forward to what these new books will bring about as much as I look forward to seeing PoW 1 as one unified PDF. Thank you DSP staff.
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Retribution
Her boots pounded against the cobbled streets, hobnails sending up sparks where she slipped and slid against the rain-slick stone. The half-elf's dark hair was plastered against her neck, her clothing soaked through. She had seen him, the man on the horse, nearly a mile back. Natty had thrown her knife at him, and something had blocked it without him even moving.
So she ran. And she kept running, because every time she slowed to listen, she could hear the pounding of hooves on stone.
Natty tried to turn the corner and slammed painfully against a post, slipping on the soaked cobbles. Her armor was all the way back in the inn, her good knives too, and -
There he was. The man on the horse, clad all in black leather. The beast smoked unnaturally in the rain, the droplets turning to mist before they could touch rider or horse. His hands were nowhere near the reins, but the horse turned towards her and approached with a slow, deliberate stride.
"Natalia Whisperdotter, you are charged with murder," the man said in a soft, yet firm voice. His words echoed, like bells; Natty saw his eyes shifting colors, like rainbows trapped in a storm. "Your guilt is beyond question. Repent and surrender, or face death."
Natty ran.
The pounding hooves were so much closer now. The raindrops before her opened, and the man on the horse emerged from the gap, as though from a gate cut through the air. She barely managed to slide between the beast's legs, though this did not save her - the man's saber caught her upside the face, opening her cheek and nose and sending blood splashing onto the streets. The rain washed it away swiftly, as it covered her sobs of pain. The man on the horse watched her run.
"You cannot escape Death, Natalia," he said in that calm, bell-filled voice. "He sees all. He saw you kill those children. He saw you cut off their ears for the bounty on goblins. He saw, and he told me."
Natty cursed in Elven and tried a door on the side of the street. Locked, no luck. Hooves pounded against the cobbles, with no sound of splashing water to disguise the harsh striking of iron on stone.
"You should have surrendered, Natalia," the calm voice said, too close to her back.
Something cold ran through her chest, not once, but twice. The half-elf hit her knees, feeling the blood running out of her lungs, curiously detached in her moment of death.
"This is your punishment," the calm voice whispered, almost sadly. "You should have let me save you, Natalia Whisperdotter."
The half-elf slumped over, her eyes closing. She did not fight for breath, or to live. She had ran, and the time for running was over.
The man dismounted and knelt next to her corpse, shaking his head. Reverently, he removed a single iron coin from his pocket and placed it on her tongue; a pair of crossed scythes was left face-up, where those who found the corpse would see it.
"Justice is done," he murmured, before mounting his horse and trotting away into the night.
This time, the hooves made no sound at all.
For those interested in the prestige classes planned for Path of War 2 (we really need a better title) I am happy to announce the Midnight Magister, featured in the above story - a mounted combatant inspired heavily by the legends of the Headless Horseman.
Wow, that was a fantastic introduction to a prestige class. It really makes me want to play it!
That pretty much covers it. When it makes sense, we'll blend them. If it doesn't, we won't. It's not going to be mandatory (either from a development perspective or from a player perspective), it would be options and only if they work.As a mythic mania backer, I have to ask the inevitable question: could you eventually do something with mythic PoW/mythic incarnum similar to how you are doing mythic psionics?
Maybe?
I'm directly developing mythic Psionics, as in I'm writing it. Path of War and Akashic Mysteries are being done by others and my direct system knowledge isn't sufficiently expert to feel comfortable directly developing mythic content, so it would depend on those developers wanting to do it.
That being said, if they write it, I'll publish it. :)
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Design Manager
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That pretty much covers it. When it makes sense, we'll blend them. If it doesn't, we won't. It's not going to be mandatory (either from a development perspective or from a player perspective), it would be options and only if they work.As a mythic mania backer, I have to ask the inevitable question: could you eventually do something with mythic PoW/mythic incarnum similar to how you are doing mythic psionics?Maybe?
I'm directly developing mythic Psionics, as in I'm writing it. Path of War and Akashic Mysteries are being done by others and my direct system knowledge isn't sufficiently expert to feel comfortable directly developing mythic content, so it would depend on those developers wanting to do it.
That being said, if they write it, I'll publish it. :)
I am down for doing some Mythic Akashic at some point (Akashic Mythteries?), but it probably won't be for a while yet. I'm still finishing up the content for the first book and have a lot of ideas tucked away for a second book that I'd like to do and really open up the Essence system before jumping in and exploring how it might mesh with Mythic. We just released the Vizier and I'm getting the Guru ready for final ready review before sending it over to Jeremy to start layout as well, after which we've got the Daevic, archetypes, PrCs, and Akashic races. Lined up for a potential book we have (names subject to change) the Tatvaist who mixes his raw Essence into the 4 basic elements, the Veda or Vedist who heals by investing Essence into allies and drawing out their afflictions when he reclaims it, and the Pharaoh, who uses whips, spears, shields, and chariots all forged from akashic energy to counter spells, protect allies, and force others to obey him or suffer deleterious effects. But you can talk about all that here.
I want that PrC Knives. I want it bad.
As soon as I can subscribe I will.
That pretty much covers it. When it makes sense, we'll blend them. If it doesn't, we won't. It's not going to be mandatory (either from a development perspective or from a player perspective), it would be options and only if they work.As a mythic mania backer, I have to ask the inevitable question: could you eventually do something with mythic PoW/mythic incarnum similar to how you are doing mythic psionics?
I'm not going to lie; I don't like Mythic. I got the book and was impressed with its shine but then I played with it and I don't like it as DM. That being said, if there is significant interest and/or Jeremy or Andreas asks us to do it, PoW will have a mythic piece. I've tried using the existing Mythic book for PoW, however, and while the class specific stuff is nice in those paths, overall it's not entirely necessary. Many of the current path abilities worked just fine with PoW. What we may do instead, is just create path abilities for the existing paths to fit for Path of War and include it into PoW2. No need to reinvent the wheel, right?
-X
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...PoW will have a mythic piece. I've tried using the existing Mythic book for PoW, however, and while the class specific stuff is nice in those paths, overall it's not entirely necessary. Many of the current path abilities worked just fine with PoW. What we may do instead, is just create path abilities for the existing paths to fit for Path of War and include it into PoW2. No need to reinvent the wheel, right?
I'll agree with this. Since my next game is going to be Wrath of the Righteous and I want to play a Stalker I looked into it. Champion, Trickster, and even Guardian all work fine. I'd appreciate getting a couple Path abilities specific to intitators but I don't feel like I need them, much less a specific Path.
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That pretty much covers it. When it makes sense, we'll blend them. If it doesn't, we won't. It's not going to be mandatory (either from a development perspective or from a player perspective), it would be options and only if they work.As a mythic mania backer, I have to ask the inevitable question: could you eventually do something with mythic PoW/mythic incarnum similar to how you are doing mythic psionics?I'm not going to lie; I don't like Mythic. I got the book and was impressed with its shine but then I played with it and I don't like it as DM. That being said, if there is significant interest and/or Jeremy or Andreas asks us to do it, PoW will have a mythic piece. I've tried using the existing Mythic book for PoW, however, and while the class specific stuff is nice in those paths, overall it's not entirely necessary. Many of the current path abilities worked just fine with PoW. What we may do instead, is just create path abilities for the existing paths to fit for Path of War and include it into PoW2. No need to reinvent the wheel, right?
-X
There's nothing wrong with this approach.
My approach for Mythic Psionics includes adding in psionic path abilities for the existing paths, as well as a new psionic path. For example, the Soulknife is likely not going to take any abilities from the new psionic path.
For Path of War, I would think it would pretty much ALL fit in the existing paths.
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Alright, I guess I'll go head and add a little Mythic bit in PoW2 just to make sure we've got it covered.
-X
Mythic Discipline Focus. Mythic Deadly Agility. Mythic Greater Unarmed Strike.
While I personally hate Mythic with a passion, I can see why some players would like to see it.
Still looking forward to the Path of War 2 items! Can't wait till you're taking feedback on them again.
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Mythic Discipline Focus. Mythic Deadly Agility. Mythic Greater Unarmed Strike.
While I personally hate Mythic with a passion, I can see why some players would like to see it.
Still looking forward to the Path of War 2 items! Can't wait till you're taking feedback on them again.
Is it the pet slime? Is that what you're after? :p
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I do love me the pet slimes!
Actually it was those gloves that produced clones of thrown weapons. Though personally I would prefer if it took up a weapon slot or counted as the same slot as a Quiver or bart bag.
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The pet slime still has me rolling in my chair, I still can't get over how funny it is. :P
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