Dreamscarred Press introduces the Path of War


Product Discussion

1,701 to 1,750 of 2,138 << first < prev | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | next > last >>

Changing Man wrote:

My apologies if this has been answered already:

Some elements of the 1st 4 +1 books did not do so well in reviews by EZG and such; have there been revisions or adjustments made to these things, or are they 'still an issue' so to speak?

I jumped in as a subscriber as soon as I saw this project; I look forward to 'seeing it through' to completion, even if I don't actively take part in discussions or playtesting. (I'm just sold on Dreamscarred Press, so- yeah. Don't disappoint me, dudes &/or dudettes ;) )

To be honest, as much as I respect EZG's reviewing skills, I do have some disagreements with his assessment and he and I have discussed that to a degree (all very polite! EZG is a great fellow and both intelligence and thoughtful). That being said, based on playtest data from subscribers and forum goers, my own game, and reviews from people like EZG, I've made some telling changes to the book so yes, you should see changes.

-X


ErrantX wrote:

To be honest, as much as I respect EZG's reviewing skills, I do have some disagreements with his assessment and he and I have discussed that to a degree (all very polite! EZG is a great fellow and both intelligence and thoughtful). That being said, based on playtest data from subscribers and forum goers, my own game, and reviews from people like EZG, I've made some telling changes to the book so yes, you should see changes.

-X

Thank you for your quick response! I understand that there is always some pressure to get things 'out the door' with any project, and some 'oopsies' are bound to occur (I noticed some obvious C&P errors referring to Manifestor Levels, as well as the front-inside-cover of the Warden claiming to be the Warlord). Some errors are just editorial things which are bound to happen when you are on a schedule and under pressure- easily fixed for digital products. Other things- mechanical matters- are another matter entirely. In any case, this project still has my support, and I look forward to seeing how everything evolves!


If my understanding is correct this is what the plan seems to be

1. A compiled PDF is released (Note that the current released PDFs don't have all the changes that we will see in this compiled PDF)
2. We read this PDF and become this Fry
3. We look for and report any mistakes we find in the PDF
4. Also last minute testing occurs just in case something slipped through the already thorough testing
5. The compiled PDF gets updated with fixes from steps 3+4
6. The PDF from step 5 gets a physical release

If I'd wrong please correct me.

Publisher, Dreamscarred Press

Changing Man wrote:
Oh yeah, and Jeremy- from the sounds of things, your little one arrived about the same time as my youngest. Belated Congrats :) I'm sure you'll have that kid slingin' dice in no time...

Thanks! Having a 3-year old AND a 6-month old makes for a busy life, but it's definitely worth it.

And congrats to you, as well!


Jeremy Smith wrote:
Changing Man wrote:
Oh yeah, and Jeremy- from the sounds of things, your little one arrived about the same time as my youngest. Belated Congrats :) I'm sure you'll have that kid slingin' dice in no time...

Thanks! Having a 3-year old AND a 6-month old makes for a busy life, but it's definitely worth it.

And congrats to you, as well!

Wow, we're practically in the same boat; my middle son turned 3 in May, and the youngest boy is now 8 months. Fortunately I have an 11 year old daughter who can jump in and help!


Insain Dragoon wrote:

If my understanding is correct this is what the plan seems to be

1. A compiled PDF is released (Note that the current released PDFs don't have all the changes that we will see in this compiled PDF)
2. We read this PDF and become this Fry
3. We look for and report any mistakes we find in the PDF
4. Also last minute testing occurs just in case something slipped through the already thorough testing
5. The compiled PDF gets updated with fixes from steps 3+4
6. The PDF from step 5 gets a physical release

If I'd wrong please correct me.

That is pretty much correct yes! :D


Some more random questions/comments!

The Judge lists a Deadly Judgement, but has no description for it.

The Hawkguard's Archery Training class feature removes penalties/grants bonuses that all characters get. When using a buckler with a ranged weapon, you suffer no attack penalty and always retain your shield bonus to AC.

The Zweihander Sentinel trades Broken Blade for Scarlet Throne; it should lose Acrobatics as a class skill, not Bluff.

In the interests of avoiding the creation of a must-have feat line (and in light of Paizo's rulings on similar actions like charge and Spring Attack) I'm going to assume that the Vital Strike feat line does not work with standard action strikes. Is this correct?

Comments have been made to the effect that in the final release only a handful of Broken Blade maneuvers will require the disciple to be unarmed. Is that unarmed only or all Broken Blade discipline weapons? Including, potentially, any weapons added via Weapon Group Adaptation?

And an observation; the Steel Serpent discipline seems... confused about what it wants to be. Like, it's not sure if it wants to be a poison/ability damage discipline, or a secondary unarmed discipline, or grappling, or what. Half of it wants to make the best rogue ever (Sneak Attack, stealth bonuses, flat-footing, poison/ability damage). Then you've got some grapple-boosting maneuvers, quite a bit that specifically says that it works with unarmed strikes (admittedly these maneuvers are other limited to piercing/slashing weapons), the delightful utility of the entire ____ Fang line.

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

The Hawkguard's ability to remove penalties to hit while wielding a buckler is for characters who choose to use thrown weapons, which do not ignore the penalty like bows. It's basically an "equalizer" for ranged combat within the archetype. For a standard bow or crossbow user, the real goodie there is the free bonus feat and retaining the shield bonus to AC.

Note that you do not normally retain the bonus to AC from a buckler when you use that arm for firing/attacking with any ranged weapon, including bows:

"In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn."

You ignore penalties when wielding a bow, there's no exception that allows you to retain your shield bonus.


Ssalarn wrote:

The Hawkguard's ability to remove penalties to hit while wielding a buckler is for characters who choose to use thrown weapons, which do not ignore the penalty like bows. It's basically an "equalizer" for ranged combat within the archetype. For a standard bow or crossbow user, the real goodie there is the free bonus feat and retaining the shield bonus to AC.

Note that you do not normally retain the bonus to AC from a buckler when you use that arm for firing/attacking with any ranged weapon, including bows:

"In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn."

You ignore penalties when wielding a bow, there's no exception that allows you to retain your shield bonus.

Didn't think about thrown weapons, true. I've always interpreted the ignore penalties line to mean that you keep the shield bonus to AC, if for no other reason than that makes it pointless to use a buckler with a ranged weapon (except on the first round if you roll badly for initiative).

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

GhanjRho wrote:


Didn't think about thrown weapons, true. I've always interpreted the ignore penalties line to mean that you keep the shield bonus to AC, if for no other reason than that makes it pointless to use a buckler with a ranged weapon (except on the first round if you roll badly for initiative).

I've had it ruled in against me in PFS and by a few GMs I've played with that bows do nothing about retaining the shield bonus per the quoted line above, so if nothing else we've got a "better safe than sorry" bit of verbage in there that's going to be necessary for thrown weapons anyway.

When Chris wrote the original Archer Lord it was pretty bow specific, but when I helped rewrite the new mechanics I was really honed in on making sure it included stuff for thrown weapons as it's a kind of underused and under-supported combat style.

You can make a very effective Hawkguard dual-wielding starknives, sibat, or less effective but more iconic weapons like handaxes.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I was reading a gestalt thread earlier and now I really have a hankering to play a gestalt Warder (Zweihander Sentinel)//Psion (Egoist or Nomad). Cant decide on the Psion specialization, Egoist might be better overall, but I think Nomad would just be more fun.


The 1 page ad at the end of the Psionic Bestiary got me even more pumped for PoW! Is that going to be the cover for the compiled book?


Yes, that is the first preview teaser for the real Path of War cover! :)


I remember a statement about a possible Firearm Discipline?

I have an idea, though it's a bit out there.
So guns target touch AC and thus require minimal dex investment to hit targets. Also classes outside gunslinger don't usually get dex to damage.

So what if we went the other way on this? The Gun discipline could be used effectively by characters who pumped strength because of minimal dex requirements to be accurate with firearms.

Have the discipline use rifle butts/pistol whips, close range shots, and some far range shots. Maybe even unarmed strikes. Think like the film Equilibrium, the RWBY videos, ect.

This way the gun discipline would play differently from Solar Wind, which focuses on ranged strikes/boosts.

Some crude examples of strikes
-fire gun at a target and use momentum to hit a an adjacent target in melee.
-hit them with gun, DC to shake/stun/confuse
-shoot their hand and reduce enemy accuracy for a round or make them drop item

Boosts
-target touch AC outside first range increment
-shots do bonus d6s for the round
-during a melee full attack add a gunshot for every X BAB

Counters
-shoot down projectiles
-shoot melee weapon to make it miss
-shoot enemy for attacking you

Probably a special rule that gunshots used as part of the maneuvers/stances don't provoke AOOs.

I think this could be a cool discipline to use for an organization or accessed by Archetypes.

This discipline could also work well for someone who wants a pistol in one hand and a melee implement in the other.


Insain Dragoon wrote:


Probably a special rule that gunshots used as part of the maneuvers/stances don't provoke AOOs.

Probably should just be baked into one or more stances to do that, no need to make a special rule exception.

Quote:
This discipline could also work well for someone who wants a pistol in one hand and a melee implement in the other.

How would you handle needing a free hand to reload in this case?


Obtaining a revolver? That one gauntlet that stores weapons? Quick draw and weapon cords?

That problem already existed except their was no incentive to dual wield as such, so I don't see how it's a problem with the discipline.

I guess a stance to do that would work well enough, but a feat or text in the maneuvers would be prefered over having to use a stance forever.


Insain Dragoon wrote:

Obtaining a revolver? That one gauntlet that stores weapons? Quick draw and weapon cords?

That problem already existed except their was no incentive to dual wield as such, so I don't see how it's a problem with the discipline.

I guess a stance to do that would work well enough, but a feat or text in the maneuvers would be prefered over having to use a stance forever.

Oh, I quite agree, there's not many ways currently to deal with the issue. I was just throwing it out there as how to accomplish it using either a boost or a maneuver. Really, the only incentive that exists right now to dual wield with a firearm is the Sword and Pistol feat, and that has a heavy feat investment to it.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

Soulknife PoW archetype.

Psychic Warrior PoW archetype.

Awakened Blade final version.

The psionics addition to PoW1. Check em out.

-X


ErrantX wrote:

Soulknife PoW archetype.

Psychic Warrior PoW archetype.

Awakened Blade final version.

The psionics addition to PoW1. Check em out.

-X

"Broken Blade Attitude (Su): While maintaining psionic focus and manifesting his mind blade, the war

soul's combat intuition focuses him towards the deadly end that the Broken Blade adherent pushes for.

While in a Broken Blade stance, the character gains a +1 dodge bonus to his AC for every five class levels

(minimum of +1), and may use his Wisdom modifier in place of his Dexterity modifier when using the

Acrobatics skill or making a Reflex save."

I am assuming the exclusion of text regarding armor restriction for this feature is intentional?


Insain Dragoon wrote:
ErrantX wrote:

Soulknife PoW archetype.

Psychic Warrior PoW archetype.

Awakened Blade final version.

The psionics addition to PoW1. Check em out.

-X

"Broken Blade Attitude (Su): While maintaining psionic focus and manifesting his mind blade, the war

soul's combat intuition focuses him towards the deadly end that the Broken Blade adherent pushes for.

While in a Broken Blade stance, the character gains a +1 dodge bonus to his AC for every five class levels

(minimum of +1), and may use his Wisdom modifier in place of his Dexterity modifier when using the

Acrobatics skill or making a Reflex save."

I am assuming the exclusion of text regarding armor restriction for this feature is intentional?

I'm confused. Why do you mention armor restriction? It's a class with Medium armor and shields.

-X


1 person marked this as a favorite.

He was just checking to see if this was too good to be true. Many similar Paizo abilities have an armor restriction. Glad you guys are avoiding that design choice.


Well the similar ability on the Stalker, Steelfist commando, and I believe for the Dervish Warder archetype all require light armor to ne active.

In addition a similar ability for the Gunslinger, Swashbuckler, Brawler, and Monk all have a restricton of light or no armor.

I don't know if it would be OP, but if the Soulknife can get his bonus while in a Breastplate it would be a first.


Not true. The Bannerman archetype for Warlord gets a scaling dodge bonus to AC already. It would not be the first, but it would definitely be a rare ability.

To be honest though, I doubt this kind of ability will disrupt balance in any way. If you are a strength Soulknife, then your AC could use some help because you will just be a dude in Medium armor with few AC buffs.

If you are a Dex Soulknife, your AC is supposed to be high in exchange for doing less damage and sacrificing a good number of feats to being Dex based. This archetype would have to take weapon finesse as his only level 1 feat (barring being human), then take Deadly Agility, then at 5th level he can finally Piranha Strike or Discipline Focus. He then still has to spend one of his Blade Talents to get this extra AC. Its a lot of investment, so it deserves reward.

Also, a normal Soulknife has access to that Blade Skill too. They just need to have a Broken Blade Stance. Martial Training II gives a stance. I am a pretty big fan of their being multiple ways of entry for this kind of thing.


I don't even think the blade skill is OP, it's just that all other similar abilities call out what kinds of armor they work in. Even the Bannerman specifically states applicable armors.

If it had a sentence of "this bonus only applies in medium, light, or no armor" then it would match the usual phrasing.


Addressed some fixes to the archetypes, check the links above.

-X


Question: Is the War Soul archetype compatible with the Soulbolt? They both alter the 1st-level feat, after all.


Justin Sane wrote:
Question: Is the War Soul archetype compatible with the Soulbolt? They both alter the 1st-level feat, after all.

By RAW, no. When archetypes cross the streams, bad stuff happens. Ask Egon. They are incompatible with each other.

-X


Shame. Solar Wind seems wonderful for a Soulbolt.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Justin Sane wrote:
Shame. Solar Wind seems wonderful for a Soulbolt.

That's not by any stretch the only soulknife archetype in the works. It's just the first, most basic one. There will be more, and for the other fighty-psychics as well.

-X


ErrantX wrote:
Justin Sane wrote:
Shame. Solar Wind seems wonderful for a Soulbolt.

That's not by any stretch the only soulknife archetype in the works. It's just the first, most basic one. There will be more, and for the other fighty-psychics as well.

-X

Well then. I know one of my friends will be very happy to hear this! I was already ecstatic with the Warsoul. Stop putting me on the hype train, y'hear?


Interest level increased by a factor of 50 :)

(I'm gonna buy it anyhow, but hey... Any extra gravy is always welcome!)


The more I hear the more I'm ready to shout "shut up and take my money!"

Any idea when the pre-order will be up? I really want to show my support with my wallet.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

You got stuff for psionics in Path of War?

Publisher, Dreamscarred Press

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Hayato Ken wrote:
You got stuff for psionics in Path of War?

Right here from ErrantX's posts above:

Soulknife PoW archetype.

Psychic Warrior PoW archetype.

Awakened Blade final version.

Publisher, Dreamscarred Press

Insain Dragoon wrote:

The more I hear the more I'm ready to shout "shut up and take my money!"

Any idea when the pre-order will be up? I really want to show my support with my wallet.

If you mean the PDF, you can preorder now.

If you mean the print release - should be available in July. :)


Hayato Ken wrote:
You got stuff for psionics in Path of War?

Breaking off a little bit of a teaser's worth for PoW1 with a pair of archetypes and a prestige class. PoW2 will have a Psionic-Initiator base class with the Zealot, and archetypes for the psionic classes, as well as a few other psionic goodies, including feats and a Martial Tradition possibly as well. We're working out the details, more to follow!

-X


There's going to be more than one book now?

Shadow Lodge

Yup - PoW2 is currently in production =)

Publisher, Dreamscarred Press

With as many ideas as Chris and Jade and others have been coming up with, and new ideas they continue to come up with, we had to say at some point "this is what the base book is going to be" because otherwise, the book never would have finished. ;)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Playing a Psion in a group with the three classes from Path of War (warder, stalker and warlord? Can´t remember the correct name right now) right now.
While it seems quite strong to me, even in comparison to the flexible psion (dealing damage and conditions for non casters is really a strong thing) i can´t say i understand all the mechanics so far, but i´m curious how this will work out on middle to higher levels.

Shadow Lodge

The main thing I've noticed is that at the mid-high levels where the Casters usually take over and the melee types are mostly regulated to cleanup crew after the Casters have locked everything down, this keeps the meleers a bit more engaged and involved, and lets them participate more in the actual engagement rather than just being there to remove HPs after the enemies are disabled, disadvantaged, or outgunned.

Granted, that's speaking of my GM experience with ToB. I have not yet had the fortune of taking a PoW class up that high yet.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

What I've noticed in my playtesting and from some others, is that out of the box, a martial disciple is going to hold more than its fair share of the cards and is going to be a viable low-level class. As we progress to mid levels, casters start having a lot of tricks that the initiators can't quite handle, but they have tricks to avoid these hazards, temporarily negate them, or simply have punishing attacks that make casters die. At higher level, the casters can rip down an initiator, but the initiator has potent attacks, defenses, and stances that make them stand tall against most encounters, and allow casters to conserve their highest level spells longer.

-X


3 people marked this as a favorite.

In my current campaign we have two martials a Barbarian and a Warlord. It cannot be overstated how much better a Barbarian is at ending encounters swiftly through the use of SMASH. That's not to say that the Warlord is a slouch. He's been specialized in Golden Lion and Scarlet throne and has effectively used maneuvers to make his team fight stronger by using counters to negate attacks, allow adjacent ally flank bonuses, grant party AoOs, and party buffs boosts.

In terms of a 1v1 PVP I think the Barb is stronger. In a team set up I think the Warlord makes an appropriate sacrifice in terms of "selfish power" to instead increase "group power." Similar to how a Bard is worse at 1v1 combat than a Magus/Inquisitor, but contributes to the group.

Also my player is having a lot of fun and finds the Warlord to be very refreshing.


Insain Dragoon wrote:

In my current campaign we have two martials a Barbarian and a Warlord. It cannot be overstated how much better a Barbarian is at ending encounters swiftly through the use of SMASH. That's not to say that the Warlord is a slouch. He's been specialized in Golden Lion and Scarlet throne and has effectively used maneuvers to make his team fight stronger by using counters to negate attacks, allow adjacent ally flank bonuses, grant party AoOs, and party buffs boosts.

In terms of a 1v1 PVP I think the Barb is stronger. In a team set up I think the Warlord makes an appropriate sacrifice in terms of "selfish power" to instead increase "group power." Similar to how a Bard is worse at 1v1 combat than a Magus/Inquisitor, but contributes to the group.

Also my player is having a lot of fun and finds the Warlord to be very refreshing.

This. This right here. This is what I was trying to accomplish. Awesome.

-X

Paizo Employee Organized Play Developer

Insain Dragoon wrote:

In my current campaign we have two martials a Barbarian and a Warlord. It cannot be overstated how much better a Barbarian is at ending encounters swiftly through the use of SMASH. That's not to say that the Warlord is a slouch. He's been specialized in Golden Lion and Scarlet throne and has effectively used maneuvers to make his team fight stronger by using counters to negate attacks, allow adjacent ally flank bonuses, grant party AoOs, and party buffs boosts.

In terms of a 1v1 PVP I think the Barb is stronger. In a team set up I think the Warlord makes an appropriate sacrifice in terms of "selfish power" to instead increase "group power." Similar to how a Bard is worse at 1v1 combat than a Magus/Inquisitor, but contributes to the group.

Also my player is having a lot of fun and finds the Warlord to be very refreshing.

This was pretty much the exact same experience we had in playtesting with the Warlord. The Warlord himself was actually doing pretty similar damage to the Arcane Duelist in the group, and not as much as the Inquisitor and Barbarian, but he served as a force multiplier with his Warleader ability and boosts, while his counters were often the factor that bought the group that little bit of extra breathing room they needed to finish the fight.

I actually found that not only were the teamwork oriented initiators more fun to play than ones that were built as beatsticks, they actually performed way more effectively over the course of a game. It is possible to build glass cannon damage monsters or combat thugs from them, but you're actually losing out and contributing less overall.


To address a complaint on stat damage.

Early game stat damage with a Stalker or Steelfist would generally end combat slower than just hitting them. Late game a lot of things you fight will be
A. Immune to poison or fort saves in general
B. Have a high enough fort save that you have a 50/50% chance of succeeding the maneuver

Against humanoid foes, who are less likely to be in category A or B, it allows the player to meaningfully contribute to combat without maximizing for the DPR olympics.

I like that paradigm shift in terms of player control as it allows someone to be effective without falling back on the BIG WEAPON BIG POWER ATTACK or MUSCLE ARCHER staples.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I think the maneuvers that make flat-footed and allow an attack are very strong. It´s similar to a feint maneuver, but uses a skill check, what is way easier to do and allows an immediate attack.
On low levels, that attack really counts and probably makes enough damage.

Also the maneuvers that give penalties seem pretty strong to me^^


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I do agree that at low levels it can be disconcerting sometimes, but flat footed AC is generally pretty high unless the monster has a high dex. Maneuvers can be pretty amazing at low levels and I don't think anyone would contest that, but as a feature it's one of those things that weakens in power as the levels ramp up, but maintains usefulness.

In most cases it's a *skill check to reduce the enemy AC by 1-3* or to get an effect off that requires a flat footed foe (a later stance grants sneak attack dice). After about level 6 most maneuvers require you give up a full attack option.


Insain Dragoon basically has right. Maneuvers don't scale nearly as fast as the rocket tag that is the magic system. Psionic powers have the best scale conditions on them, and I'm not just saying that because I work for Dreamscarred Press. Maneuvers are too static to scale, so they either rock face or they're under powered, and that's all based on what level the actual maneuver is.

-X


1 person marked this as a favorite.

It's worth mentioning my current character is a Single Rapier, Deadly agility Stalker who prioritizes Steel Serpent and Veiled Moon with a couple Solar Wind maneuvers that will probably be replaced as Steel Serpent advances. He carries a few chakrams, for use with SS and SW, that he throws when he can't get in position. So far at level 3 he's been fun and useful to the group, feels similar in power to an Inquisitor of the same level.

I'm hoping the items for PoW2 go through as their was an item that I remember being like an amulet of mighty fists for thrown ammo.

1,701 to 1,750 of 2,138 << first < prev | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Third-Party Pathfinder RPG Products / Product Discussion / Dreamscarred Press introduces the Path of War All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.