have any other parties seriously wanted to burn down the starting town?


Carrion Crown

Liberty's Edge

our group just started carrion crown. the peasant attack while burying the professor wasa bad enough for not liking the peasants. then later my charactor was using the dancing lights cantrip to try and drum up attention for the bard's concert, and the peasants were acting scared of the minor illusions. so i have the feeling our party may end up burning down the town or otherwise ending up in a confrontation due to just not liking the townsfolk. also, does anyone else think the town priest's picture in the module makes him look undead?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

My group actually really enjoyed the way I ran the town. I don't see why the town'd be scared of minor illusions, considering the fact that they do sell some magic items and not everyone agreed with the jerks trying to ruin the funeral. I don't know what kind of "they're scared of us" act leads you to think that burning down a place you don't live in and can simply leave is a good reaction, though it makes sense if you're evil or even leaning strongly towards chaos.

Yes, I do agree that the priest looks undead, but the party enjoyed how he gave the rogue a verbal lashing when he tried to claim he worshipped Pharasma, due to being afraid the priest wouldn't let him in the church if he admitted to following Cayden.


yes, but my party wants to burn down EVERY town

yes, they thought father whatshisname was actually the BBEG of the adventure.

Silver Crusade

This isn't Sandpoint.

In Ustalav the man you drink with may be a werewolf, the man living down the street could be a vampire, the local bakers wife may be a cultist of Urgathoa.

These are the people you know, who you've lived with for years. Now imagine a bunch of outsiders roll up to town to bury a man who is well known for travelling around and using god knows what type of magic and they start poking their nose into things that are best left undisturbed?

They are suspicious of you because being suspicious keeps you alive...

Also bear in mind that this town is about a couple of days travel away from one of the most dangerous places in the world. They have a right to be paranoid.

Finally, if you are thinking about burning the town to the ground maybe their actions are justified?


Are you even bothering with the Trust point system?

I'd have a look over it, even if you weren't. Just having these situations come up can really help the player understand that the town trusts them now.


"Wanted?" No my players took extreme umbrage over the attack at the funeral and pert near leveled the place. Yup, what a beginning for budding heroes...they got mellower later though.


It is a slight pain. Despite, according to settlement guidelines, Golarion having lots off, and powerful, spellcasters, the peasants in this mod freak out alot!


I actually had the characters visit the local tavern a few times to have the locals "warm up" to them.
Dares of ordering a "random specialty drink" {I have a list of 100} with results like:
The drink is mint green with dark swirls and a slice of a strange fruit on the edge of the glass. The drink smells like a tangerine and tastes spicy. It causes the drinker to temporarily levitate.
Along with games & gambling with the locals will result in gaining rumors, information & possibly trust points.
The GM can place postings in the town square that will provide hints or introductions to important people in upcoming campaigns or this one, including NPC's you need to meet offering services or products, etc.

In other campaigns I have had to add hunting parties the PC's can join, people needing help as a small side quest for money, objects or information and an outside surprise town attack that puts the PC's helping the entire town to help the game proceed.

Sovereign Court

y'all dont like my dancing lights? Get the kerosene! Why not; one overreaction deserves another amirite?


The gm we had for this part wasn't our normal gm, and did things so badly if I had the time, the means, and the power I totally would have burned it to the ground. Almost died because of those peasants several times, then got run out of town when we were doing everything we could to help them. I don't think he understood the fact that we could earn trust and it wasn't just deducted at every opportunity. Bad start for the AP, and even after switching gms it didn't get much better. Considering there's a lodge in a forest that needs to burn, Jack the Ripper needs to move to lipistat and go to town, once he's finished there he can vacation in illmarsh, and every one in caliphas needs to flush with holy water.

At least when we camp out in the wilderness monsters attacking is normal, and animals will generally leave us alone unless we tick them off. At least most of the nobles have been pretty cool, outside of the ones we needed to kill.


I play a ranger in the Carrion Crown. We stared down the funeral protesters, then fought zombies and crawled through the Harrowstone prison, just before leaving Ravengro two days later. I'm not sure why the GM is having you linger in town so early in the adventure, but I suggest getting out of town and forget you were ever there. It's easier than avoiding bountyhunters the rest of you potentially short adventuring careers. I thought it was cool that you used Dancing Lights to enhance the Bard's show :)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

The GM's having you linger, because you're supposed to linger. The good professor requested you stay with his daughter for a month...

Grand Lodge

I ran two groups through Ravengro and the second group specifically wanted to kill only one person in the entire town... Jominda the Apothecary.

She refused to sell them magical potions because of their terrible trust score and they felt they needed it to save the town. Hijinks ensued and it ended with the wizard getting a 600 gp fine.


The trouble with Ravengro is that the town is written to be super unfriendly and suspicious, and yet the players are still expected to care about the town and its people.

Not to mention that I have a couple off-race characters (a full-blood Orc and a tiefling), and I felt narratively compelled to make the town overwhelmingly racist towards them.

So it's a bit of a balancing act as a GM. I've gone out of my way to work in scenes that will show at least some of the characters as sympathetic towards the players. It's something your GM should be trying to do as well, but can be entirely forgiven if (s)he hasn't found a good way to do it yet.

That said, there's only so much you can do. As a player you could really improve the adventure (and help out your GM) by trying to find some reasons for your character to want to stay and help the town. Perhaps he could fall for a local girl (Kendra, even), or make friends with the bartender (Zokar at the Laughing Demon is super friendly, if you haven't chatted him up yet). There are a couple of other people who were friendly with the professor and at his funeral that you might also make friends with.

And yeah, the priest is totally creepy looking. Welcome to Ustalav ;)

Silver Crusade

I didn't want to burn down ravengro, but I DO want to burn down illmarsh a lot!

Dark Archive

I haven't started this AP yet, but one thing I was going to do is try to work up some sympathy for the town. Near the beginning of "Rule of Fear" is a great section that talks about how Ustalov is a place where all the scary stories told in other parts of Golarion about boogeymen in the night are all too true in Ustalov. The folks of Ravengro are simple people that are untrusting just because it's how they stay alive. I've got a decent group of players who - once they understand this (even if I have to straight up tell them) - I think will want to work their way into the town's trust so they can help out. But we'll see. Shrug.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I find it funny that players think that they are even able to raze a town when they are level one and there are some people there who probably can take out the party by themselves, i.e. the priest and the magic shop owner. And probably that retired military commander councilman.

The Exchange

magnuskn wrote:
I find it funny that players think that they are even able to raze a town when they are level one and there are some people there who probably can take out the party by themselves, i.e. the priest and the magic shop owner. And probably that retired military commander councilman.

I find it funny that that when players don't like someone in an RPG (especially D&D though...) their reaction is so absurdly violent. Seriously? burn down a town you don't like? who thinks like that in any sort of a realistic situation?


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Well, the phrase "adolescent power fantasies" comes to mind. ^^


yeah, AKA what's getting pretty close to burning me out on gaming with most people in my area.

Sovereign Court

Lord Snow wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
I find it funny that players think that they are even able to raze a town when they are level one and there are some people there who probably can take out the party by themselves, i.e. the priest and the magic shop owner. And probably that retired military commander councilman.
I find it funny that that when players don't like someone in an RPG (especially D&D though...) their reaction is so absurdly violent. Seriously? burn down a town you don't like? who thinks like that in any sort of a realistic situation?

I know, right?


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I have wanted to destroy every single town in carrion crown so far. Halfway through the 5th book right now and every single location has left me with a bad taste in my mouth. Mostly because your "allies" end up being more difficult to deal with than your enemies. In one of the books the sheriff had us find out what happened to a certain important NPC. When we came back I told the truth and it was so over the top that he thought we were lying and was going to have us arrested. Needless to say we were level 9 at the time and there are now a lot of fatherless children. I don't blame the GM either. With the way things turned out I wouldn't believe me.

Sovereign Court

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So the Sheriff is having a tough time believing your story. He wants to arrest you so clearly the most reasonable thing to do is just kill him.


Unfortunately a lot of APs IME, at low level, suffer from the NPCs seeming way more important than the PCs. Which is not what I wish to play.


thenovalord wrote:
It is a slight pain. Despite, according to settlement guidelines, Golarion having lots off, and powerful, spellcasters, the peasants in this mod freak out alot!

It helps to remember that the people of Ravensgro and the lands of Carrion Crown have had a bad time with powerful spell casters. Mix that with the knowledge that the Whispering Tyrant is just resting, a dollop of the land still bearing scars from the last time he was out and a just a dash of justified paranoia in other areas and you have a people who aren't going to be very friendly or willing to trust unknown magic users.


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Their small farming community is a day or two ride north of the planet's worst undead infestation, a week's ride south of the planet's worst demon infestation and maybe three days ride east of the planet's worst orc infestation. I'd be a jerk too.


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Captain Netz wrote:
I have wanted to destroy every single town in carrion crown so far. Halfway through the 5th book right now and every single location has left me with a bad taste in my mouth.

+1


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

My IC reminder of Sloanzilla & others points in response to almost this very issue.


Pan wrote:
So the Sheriff is having a tough time believing your story. He wants to arrest you so clearly the most reasonable thing to do is just kill him.

Just how many of your players ,when told by a sheriff , "Your lying! Drop your weapons you're all under arrest!" have just dropped their weapons and meekly went to jail???

No player I have ever gamed with has ever done that or anything even remotely similar.

I end up with the sheriff either backing down after being told in no uncertain terms...NO!, or a little to a lot of blood and the thunder of spells depending on how seriously my players took the sheriff's threat/orders.

Since the town hired these highly skilled heroes to do something the sheriff and his posse could not, I tend to have the townies believe the heroes rather than arrest them for doing their job...much less drama and more focus on the players rather than the oh so important npcs

Sovereign Court

Some context would probably help. Not everygame is wild west style. Either the sheriff is a corrupt POS and they should kill him or he is just a guy doing his job and doesn't know what is really going on. Sometimes that means, god forbid, putting away weapons and working with the Sheriff. Oh so important NPCs? Sounds more like do whatever the #$%^ we want PCs to me.


Thanks for the reply...the oh so important npc line was in response to thenovalords post directly under your post that I quoted.

And the ap's npcs do tend to be a bit high in the importance...I still remember the demi-lich in an ap a while ago...my players screamed like little schoolkids!

As for some context...you did not have much in your quoted post...sorry.

Dark Archive

I like the idea of this thread. Burning things is fun!!!


My players used torches in the night...tossed on rooftops...at 1cp each they had a LOT of them...now I know why!!!

Silver Crusade

Not to shift the focus from Ravengro to Illmarsh, but really guys, Ravengro was tame and quaint compared to the creepy evilness of Illmarsh.

How is a Crusader supposed to react when

The town of Illmarsh:

the populace is sacrificing their female children to squirt out little fishes for the Scum? Ok, ok, I know, I should be an understanding hero and forgive them for a couple centuries of these "sacrifices" just so the town can have a bountiful harvest of fish. I don't think my immediate hostile reaction to the sheriff's threat of bodily harm was out of place.

Anyway, I have not burned the town down, but if any town deserves that fate, it is Illmarsh.

Sovereign Court

Cornellius Aggredor wrote:

Not to shift the focus from Ravengro to Illmarsh, but really guys, Ravengro was tame and quaint compared to the creepy evilness of Illmarsh.

How is a Crusader supposed to react when

** spoiler omitted **

Anyway, I have not burned the town down, but if any town deserves that fate, it is Illmarsh.

spoiler:
I would give to the town folk a break on this. The religious leaders were pretty much bluffing them into believing it was the way of things. Anyone who got out of line was sent to the tern rocks. My PCs had no problem killing the clerics. They actually wanted to help the town back to reality and get them back on their feet.

I am beginning to suspect that my gaming group and I are very different than the norm......

Silver Crusade

Pan wrote:
Cornellius Aggredor wrote:

Not to shift the focus from Ravengro to Illmarsh, but really guys, Ravengro was tame and quaint compared to the creepy evilness of Illmarsh.

How is a Crusader supposed to react when

** spoiler omitted **

Anyway, I have not burned the town down, but if any town deserves that fate, it is Illmarsh.

** spoiler omitted **

Our group is not about killing first then speak with dead later. I just find playing my alignment quite a challenge in the town of Illmarsh. (NG)

The Exchange

selunatic2397 wrote:
Pan wrote:
So the Sheriff is having a tough time believing your story. He wants to arrest you so clearly the most reasonable thing to do is just kill him.

Just how many of your players ,when told by a sheriff , "Your lying! Drop your weapons you're all under arrest!" have just dropped their weapons and meekly went to jail???

No player I have ever gamed with has ever done that or anything even remotely similar.

I end up with the sheriff either backing down after being told in no uncertain terms...NO!, or a little to a lot of blood and the thunder of spells depending on how seriously my players took the sheriff's threat/orders.

Since the town hired these highly skilled heroes to do something the sheriff and his posse could not, I tend to have the townies believe the heroes rather than arrest them for doing their job...much less drama and more focus on the players rather than the oh so important npcs

Even without surrendering, PCs of 9th level should be able to avoid imprisonment in any number of ways that do NOT involve the murder of innocents... incapacitating them is one easy option, and escaping is another. KILLING every NPC that hinders you is an overreaction and probably has to do more with player immaturity than roleplaying a tough character.

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