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So, discovered the Trench Fighter archetype from "Rasputin Must Die!"(Reign of Winter 5 of 6).
Wondering if anyone has experience with it, or have any builds that make use of it.
It is very interesting.
no but thanks for showing me this. it makes me very very happy!
Well if you go trench gunner 5/ sohei monk 6/gunslinger 1 (for quick clear) you could have fun with the weapon training shenanigans that are often talked about. could make for a fun cowboy type character.
a trench fighter would have dex to damage before a gunslinger (CRAZY) and could add weapon spec at the next level opening up point blank master at 5.
would that work? i was thinking mysterious stranger 1/trench x with an intimidation build to apply cha to damage occasionally while destroying lives with dazzling display fun.
trench gunner/ gun tank is flavor fitting
as is trench gunner/gulchgunner
trench fighter and urban barbarian could be pretty deadly as well.
it would require some weaponcord work to keep your offhand clear because of the "You cannot use this feat if you are carrying a weapon or shield in your off hand," clause. but if you just had the pistol dangling then yea I think it could work... would be fun too!
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I had an idea that might be interesting. Musket Master + Trench Fighter, focusing on rifles. Grab a Far-Reaching Sight and a Distance weapon, stack a bunch of static bonuses (Deadly Aim, enhancement, Weapon Training, etc), perhaps UMD some form of scrying, and spend full round actions sniping bad guys from a mile away.
Because Pathfinder obviously needs a Spec Ops sniper PC to make ranged combat even more broken ;)
Do note that if you are using the guns everywhere (which is all but expected, considering you can get machine guns...) then the gunslinger gets gun training at first level.
Here are some Quotes from James Jacobs that I am to lazy to directly quote, it seems that he believes you cannot double dip on the Dex to damage :(
As for builds and ideas?
Stacking Dex as high as possible is obvious
Pick up a Tower Shield for extra AC and the ability to turn it into full cover (and get bonuses to it)?
TWF double pistols is always good, and you get the feats to make it easier, plus weapon specialization.
Take the Duck and Cover teamwork feat.
Stand next to a Phalanx Soldier (or an Armiger)
Ride a horse? You can drop down on a horse to gain cover.
Take the Body Shield feat as some sort of weird revolver/grappler build? (I grapple you, now I shoot you!)
Aside from that, just build a regular gunslinger with extra feats and no grit, or take the amateur gunslinger feat.
Probably half-elf, slap your free Skill Focus into Perception.
Str 10
Dex 18+2
Con 12
Int 10
Wis 14
Cha 8
Gunslinger (Musket Master) 5/ Fighter (Trench Fighter) 5
1: Point Blank Shot
B: Skill Focus (Perception)
B: Rapid Reload
3: Precise Shot
4: Rapid Shot
5: Deadly Aim
6: Weapon Focus (Rifle)
7: Far Shot
8: Bullseye Shot
9: Weapon Specialization (Rifle)
10: Point Blank Master
The idea being to jack as many bonuses to hit and damage as you can, with iterative attacks being less of a concern (though Rapid Shot is still nice). If there was a Furious Focus equivalent feat for Deadly Aim (talk to your GM?) then it would be a must have.
Important magic items to pick up would be a Distance rifle with a Far-Reaching Sight, as high a +Dexterity belt as you can pick up, and Gloves of Dueling. Given WBL at level 10, you could get a +4 Belt of Dexterity, Gloves of Dueling, a +2 Distance Rifle with the sight, with 4k left over for something else (magic armor and a Cloak of Resistance, or magical ammo).
Your bonus to hit at maximum range (1600 feet) would be 10 BAB + 7 Dex + 3 Weapon Training +2 enhancement + 1 Weapon Focus - 3 Deadly Aim - 10 range penalty, for a net +10 to hit vs touch AC.
Damage would be 1d10+14 Dex (2x)+6 Deadly Aim +3 Weapon Training +2 Weapon Specialization +2 enhancement, for 1d10+27 damage per shot at 1600 feet away. Not enough to one shot most bad guys, but enough to hurt like hell.
Improved Precise Shot and Pinpoint Targeting in a few levels is also excellent, letting you negate some of the penalties.
Of course, you don't have to fight from max possible range, or focus all on one shot. In the middle of a fight, you can still fire off your 3 iteratives for a hefty chunk of damage per shot with obscene accuracy.
Trench Fighter is really designed for worlds in which guns are simple or martial weapons - note that they don't actually get firearm proficiency naturally. That said, it has some nice abilities to add to a gunslinger, or you can burn a couple feats on firearm proficiency and gunsmithing.
Racial Perception bonus, low-light vision is more likely to be useful at long ranges, the favored class bonus for gunslinger is bonus Grit, having two core classes makes Multitalented relevant, Elven Immunities helps to shore up the weak Will saves of a Fighter/Gunslinger.
Mysrerious stranger would work, aside from grit limitations.
Remember also that guns only target touch AC when firing within the first 5 range increments. Wait, far-reaching sight negates that. Nm :)
Since this is aimed at building a trench fighter, not a gunslinger, what about taking x levels of fighter and 1-2 levels of urban barbarian and getting furious focus? Maximize all the damage die you can on that readied shot?
Trench Fighter / Urban Barbarian
Do Your Controlled Rage with +Dex
You could get creative and run an Elf with Kirin Style to add 2x Int to the attack as well. A 2 level dip into Alchemist (Grenadier, Vivisectionist) will net you Mutagen and the ability to infuse your shots with an alchemical item. A Hybridization Funnel with alchemists fire and an acid flask would add 2d6+ Int mod x2 in damage, with a likely 1d6 Sneak Attack since the foe won't see you coming.
So, in theory, you could get gun damage +3d6+ 2x Dex +4x Int in a single shot at 1600 feet vs touch AC.
You could also go Sword and Pistol with a revolver and a short sword to make the most of a jacked up Dexterity. Clever usages of Quick Draw and weapon cords could also let you switch between TWF with pistols and swords, though your WBL would be dumped entirely into weapons XD
The best part about a Trench Fighter, is you can wear a trenchcoat and have it make sense.
Because, think about it.
When I think Trench Fighter, especially given where it was published, I think of a guy with leather trenchcoat and a Mosin-Nagant with a bayonet.
Also, the archetype makes mention of machine guns, which is presumably something they statted out in the same AP issue that the archetype was published in, but I haven't seen the stat block pop up on d20pfsrd yet. What are the mechanical aspects of a machine gun? If it lets you fire off more rounds a turn or something similar, it could be absolutely brutal to build around.
When I think Trench Fighter, especially given where it was published, I think of a guy with leather trenchcoat and a Mosin-Nagant with a bayonet.
Also, the archetype makes mention of machine guns, which is presumably something they statted out in the same AP issue that the archetype was published in, but I haven't seen the stat block pop up on d20pfsrd yet. What are the mechanical aspects of a machine gun? If it lets you fire off more rounds a turn or something similar, it could be absolutely brutal to build around.
It fires in a line and you roll an attack against each person in the line at -2.
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Ack! Scary thought - take it AND gunslinger. At 3trench/5gunslinger, you're adding double dex to damage.
Both abilities do the same thing (allow you to add Dex to damage) so they would not stack. It's the same bonus.
It'd be the same as having an Agile weapon and Mythic Weapon Finesse.
Now, if one of the abilities were worded like the Paladin Divine Grace "add a bonus equal to your CHA bonus" there might be something there...
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Actually, it does:
Trench Warfare (Ex)
Starting at 3rd level, a trench fighter can select one specific type of firearm (such as a machine gun, revolver, or rifle). He gains a bonus equal to his Dexterity modifier on damage rolls when firing that type of firearm. Every 4 levels thereafter (7th, 11th, and 15th), the trench fighter picks up another type of firearm, gaining these bonuses for those types as well. Furthermore, when behind partial, normal, or improved cover, a trench fighter gains an additional +2 AC bonus from the cover.
This ability replaces armor training 1, 2, 3, and 4.
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Actually, it does:
Trench Warfare (Ex)
Starting at 3rd level, a trench fighter can select one specific type of firearm (such as a machine gun, revolver, or rifle). He gains a bonus equal to his Dexterity modifier on damage rolls when firing that type of firearm. Every 4 levels thereafter (7th, 11th, and 15th), the trench fighter picks up another type of firearm, gaining these bonuses for those types as well. Furthermore, when behind partial, normal, or improved cover, a trench fighter gains an additional +2 AC bonus from the cover.
This ability replaces armor training 1, 2, 3, and 4.
That's actually super sweet then. I just noticed Gunslinger uses the same wording, so you totally can add double DEX to damage. Neither ability is allowing yout to add DEX to damage, they both create new, untyped bonuses equal to your DEX bonus that add to damage. That's disgusting. And sweet.
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I wonder if there is a way to build an effective Trench Fighter build, without a Gunslinger dip.
Probably. Maybe just go Striaght fighter and follow all your normal damage boosts (Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, etc.) while seeting aside the necessary feats for reloading and ranged combat. He'l actually get all of those much sooner than the GS due to his rapid feat accrual. He might not have the utility of the Gunslinger, but his raw damage per shot should exceed the GS's substantially, and won't be reliant on Grit points to to boost it. It'd be hard to pull off a Trench Fighter using other than one-handed or advanced firearms due to the limitations on reloading two-handed firearms though.
On the flip side, you're more likely to have wiggle room in your feats to take awesome and thematic combos like Leaping Shot and Prone Shooter that a Gunslinger just wouldn't take because he has more important feats he needs.|
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It seems like Trench Fighter could be a great archetype for feat intensive builds that don't see a lot of play, like Sword and Pistol fighters. I've seen a Sword and Pistol fighter built using the Core Fighter, and it seems like he'd lose very little by going Trench Fighter, while adding his primary ranged attack stat to his ranged damage.
Or pehaps a necromancer/ trench figther/ eldich knigth?