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I know for a fact that DDNext tables sold out at GenCon very quickly, so there is a LOT of interest in DDNext.
I wonder if RPGs can work the same way that fast food restaurants do. If a BK exists on one corner, and a McDonalds opens up on the opposite corner, BK actually makes MORE money. Pathfinder does quite well. Perhaps when 'Next hits, the same thing may happen: people will play more RPGs and buy more material.
I don't think Paizo will need to 'steal' people away from 'Next. I'm only one person, but I play PF, and I play 4E. <<mind explosion>> IKR?
Why do anything?
Timeline:
1) D&D is created
2) Other RPGs are created
3) 3rd party companies are born, creating additional sources for all RPGs
4) D&D rises in popularity (thanks Catholic church!), 2nd edition D&D is born
5) Other games become popular as well (after all, the same stores are selling them)
6) TSR flounders and MtG saves the day! Yay!
6) 3rd edition is released with much fanfare - the tabletop RPG industry gets a much-needed shot-in-the-arm
7) Paizo Publishing is born, as an independent publishing house supporting WotC
8) 4e blows chunks - nerd-rage drives many former D&D players into Paizo's arms
9) Wizbro announces 5e (what a surprise!)
At what point did anything D&D/TSR/WotC do that hurt the RPG community in-general, or directly took from Paizo/PF/Goilarion? Good or Bad, it doesn't matter - it brings more attention to our hobby.
'Nuff said.
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I think Paizo is in a good situation no matter what happens with D&D Next. If D&D Next goes OGL, Paizo has an opportunity in terms of cross-overs between the two game systems. If D&D Next does not go OGL, then the openness of Pathfinder will remain one of its strongest advantages over D&D Next. As we saw with 4E, it takes multiple bad decisions to lose your position as the top RPG -- and so far Pathfinder shows no signs of going down that path.
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Did you know that Hasbro's game division accounted for $1.2 billion in sales revenue this past year? They followed this up by posting a 19% growth in sales the second quarter this year vs last year.
Did you know that Wizards of the Coast is expected to earn $445 million in revenue this year? Magic, of course, rules from this lofty perch, having achieved four straight years of 25% or better growth as of 2012. 2013 is shaping up to be another whopper of a positive sales gain for them, with record-breaking attendance occurring at every single major tournament that has been held so far this year, and every set getting a bigger and bigger response from consumers.
This is all attributable to a seemingly tiny little change that WotC made in 2009: they started using to their advantage the enormous social network they had already created via their Organized Play system, The DCI. They began localizing their game launches and pre-launch events within neighborhood stores, and began pushing their games in front of people on numerous platforms (game consoles, Facebook, tabletops at the store level, demos at places as varied as Barnes & Noble and the Warped Tour...the list goes on).
I would be very surprised (and proud) if Paizo was anywhere near those kinds of sales numbers. I very much doubt that they have the weight of money behind them that WotC and D&D Next has. And Hasbro will very likely throw as much weight behind it as they can, utilizing the well-oiled machine that is The DCI as their front line marketing tool.
You know what Paizo has, though? An incredible social network all its own. Someone alluded to the strength of Paizo's sales being in its repeat customers. This is very true. Those repeat customers create a very healthy revenue stream for Paizo, and are the best cheerleaders the company can possibly have. They create new sales by bringing in the Grognards and the 4e loyalists alike. I see more fun conversations start up as a result of Paizo's incredible product line than I see in any other game besides Magic, itself.
What I would like to see is Paizo begin to take advantage of this network the way that WotC already has. They should be utilizing their clientele and the stores who help create that clientele to its fullest. Things like Pathfinder Society one-shots (perhaps in the form of the defunct Kobold Quarterly PFS Quests) should be front and center for every store that looks at the PFRPG for its shelves (or already has it). They should have a very easy time of providing demos, and a way of capturing customers that will stick ("Liked your game? Here's the quick-play rules for your character in a handy pamphlet, along with a link to the Paizo website so you can check out everything the PFRPG has to offer. By the way, we're running a new adventure next week. You can bring your character back or try another one.") These demos should be available to local coordinators and liaisons that are independent of stores, as well. And those stores, coordinators, and liaisons should be rewarded in some way for generating traffic for Paizo.
I can guarantee you that WotC will be doing all of this, and more. I know because I've already been made part of process and I get updates every week.
I do not think D&D Next can knock the PFRPG down off its mountain any time soon. As others have said, it shouldn't be generating fearful responses or knee-jerk reactions. But it is a legitimate threat that should not be ignored.
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Counter it? Lol! They are countering themselves by even coming out with a new edition this soon! I wouldn't worry if I was Paizo. They are original tsr and know edition changes so soon only alienate fans. I have heard many 4e supporters are upset and many of us are here after they switched last time.
Adnd 1e and 2e weren't that different and that lasted what 20 years? I admit I was ready when 3rd came out but not 4th. I swear its like wizards has game adhd or something. They ALWAYS say "this is the dnd we are going to have for a long time.we will be having open content(3rd ed) and something for everyone at every level (4th). ". Its always some excuse to,change every few years when they should just say, " Hey, remember when we said this would last? Well, we are so addicted to the rush in sales we get when we release a new edition and with our designers being so untalented and lazy, we are breaking our promise. Sorry but we own the dnd brand and we know you will forgive us if we reprint the backlog of products and say it was for Gary."
Pft! !! I'm over wizards and dnd. I no longer can afford to buy thousands of dollars worth of books. I'm married with 2 kids and they come first. Ill support pathfinder and that's it. With this poverty situation we need quality products not new systems. If they had put half the effort they put into making dnd next into fixing the system they are on now, maybe people would actually end up liking 4th and/ or sticking with it.
I'm glad Paizo did what they did and took the reigns, making it their own and quite fresh in the process. Regardless of what the future holds, wizards will never see a dime from me. I don't support them in anyway including buying and supporting Hasbro. They have proven their greed to me and I'm kicking them to the curb.
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FWIW, I was just at the San Diego Comicon. I went to the gaming room and there were many tables of Pathfinder and even more tables of D&D in various editions-- 4e hiding behind smoked glasses (ie. being sponsored but not trumpeted), the D&D board game, and also many demos of D&D Next, both an introductory adventure and two further adventures.
I played the intro and the first adventure. Since we weren't required to sign any NDAs or swear any oaths of secrecy--which would be kind of useless anyway with the playtests being this public--I'll say, having played D&D editions 1-4 as well as Pathfinder, that D&D Next is basically 1st through 3rd with a few frills from 4e added on. Spells again look like actual spells. My wizard, while not having a familiar--still a problem--could at least cast illusions of whatever I wanted, as opposed 4e's annoying nonsense where illusions amounted to a pinch of meaningless descriptive blather cloaking a dumpy combat bonus and nothing more. My cleric had Command again which had a small list of popular commands but a mention that other commands were possible if the DM allowed them--so when attacked by the goblin with the pickaxe, I used command word "Flagellate." Everyone laughed, the DM allowed it, and the goblin took himself out.
I also played a Pathfinder demo game, deciding to see how the gunslinger worked--or didn't, as I managed to jam my gun five times in a row before giving up on it. And while Annie-Jam-Your-Gun was still the last woman standing in a TPK, it was a TPK. Having been in another such TPK at Paizocon--the module swiftly becoming "You die, she dies, everybody dies!"--the main generalization I can make is that it comes down to "throttle control" as one of the Venture captains put it, meaning that GMs/DMs/Storytellers/Etc. need to know how to pull back or double down so as to keep an exciting adventure going without everyone dying horribly. Also, bad dice happen. Rolling a 1 with my gun didn't help, and then going to the alchemical cartridges which loaded more quickly but jammed on a 1-5? Four more jams were not very thrilling. But it was a nice saving grace that I got a pull from the Harrow deck after the game and won the grand prize, that being another Core Rulebook. But I didn't win anything on the percentiles for the D&D prize table.
Which is a long way of saying that D&D Next, at least in its current incarnation, is a perfectly playable enjoyable game. So's Pathfinder. It also looks to be very little trouble to run a Pathfinder AP with D&D Next and presumably vice versa.
I want the guys to have jobs too but your prophecy of doom I think is misplaced. Look at it this way. Compare 3.0 power creep to PF power creep I think they have done a far superior job at keeping things balanced other than the Summoner and the Master of Many Styles. 2E lasted almost a decade. Expanding relevant content has been the success of Pathfinder. People still play chess, checkers, Monopoly ect without significant rules change.
Well, I got the historical data of every past edition of the game behind my assertions, so I am pretty confident that the pattern will repeat at some time.
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When does the next edition of D&D come out anyway? I've paid almostno attention to it.
To answer the OP: I don't think Paizo has to do anything other than what they do every month already, which is put out an interesting adventure and so on. They don't have to try and go for a D&D Counter Punch.
-Skeld
At last Gencon, they were predicting a two year playtesting period, implying a Gencon 14 release
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I'm hoping for something drool-worthy produced by Paizo at the same time .. something I feel is a must-have product that I can't live without buying as soon as it hits the virtual shelves.
Mostly, because I like buying drool-worthy products and want more of them.
I find this thread interesting. When folks post here, I glance at their subscriber tag line. When someone isn't subscribed to any product lines and they say "Paizo should just chill and do nothing", if they aren't a subscriber to a couple of Paizo's core subscription lines, then it's nearly moot since Paizo's revenue from that individual may really only be $20-30 next Summer.
Now if someone is a multi-product subscriber, Paizo's kind of banking on 2-3 months of subscription revenue from them - that probably means ~$200 next Summer from that individual, if not more.
5000 folks who think about pushing "pause" on their subscriptions next summer can affect Paizo. That's $1 million dollars of revenue lost on paused subscriptions so those 5000 folks (which isn't that many) can have the funds in their household to try D&D Next. Paizo also counts on some amount of new subscribers to replace churning subscribers. If every store throughout the U.S. is all abuzz with D&D Next, that also hurts the rate of new subscribers that they'd be counting on to replace their churn.
Thus, if Paizo releases something like "Ultimate Intrigue" (with a tasty swashbuckler base class) and a nice swashbuckling AP, I can tell you there's little odds of me hitting "pause" on my subscriptions. I think I have 5 or 6 of them now? But, if the line-up is stuff like NPC Codex 3, Gamemastery Guide 2, and say some AP that feels like a re-hash of one I already own, I'd be hard-pressed not to save my funds and give some thought to not at least give D&D Next a spin for "old time's sake".
To sum up - most of all, I find this thread interesting since I'm interested in speculation more on "what amazing product can Paizo make next Summer that you'd *have* to buy?" vs speculation over their long-term place in the RPG publishing universe.
Well, we already have the catalog for a lot of 2014 and so far it seems no new base classes. :(
I am still of the opinion that a new Pathfinder Edition would suck. Its not necessary.
It may not be necessary for Pathfinder players, but it may be necessary as another revenue stream for Paizo.
If it's a choice between having Paizo undergo radical downsizing and having Pathfinder 1.5/2E/Next, I'll take the latter.
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I seriously doubt we're yet anywhere close to the state where Paizo has to think about either downsizing or doing a new edition.
There's lots of Golarion left to explore. Next year, one of the big three hardbacks is going to be a Golarion book (the gods book).
What's more, with both Ultimate Campaign and Mythic Adventures, they're showing there's still a lot of gas in the current edition. Mythic Adventures has been called "Pathfinder 1.5" by some, as it is a new system on top of the existing system, but it doesn't require a refresh or reboot even of the rules. Ultimate Campaign is really cool because it takes the core rules places that they haven't been before. I'm especially fond of the Downtime rules, although I also like the Kingdom rules. (The Kingdom rules, however, I'd played with before in Kingmaker.) It shows that Paizo is still capable of putting out new cool things for the current addition that really do give the possibility of adding new depth, new flavor, and new toys to play without having either to go the route of power-creeping splatbooks, or without having to burn down the current edition and go back to the well with a new edition where people have to buy all the books all over again.
I hope they manage to maintain this for a long time. Many people seem to think it's inevitable that the burn-down will come, that we'll get a Pathfinder/2e where we'll have to re-buy all of the books again, but I hope that that date stays in the future for as long as possible. I wouldn't be adverse to a patch that changes some things without making all the old books obsolete, but even a change as big as the 3.0/3.5 change is going to mean a lot of rebuying and relearning of the system....
I seriously doubt we're yet anywhere close to the state where Paizo has to think about either downsizing or doing a new edition.
There's lots of Golarion left to explore. Next year, one of the big three hardbacks is going to be a Golarion book (the gods book).
What's more, with both Ultimate Campaign and Mythic Adventures, they're showing there's still a lot of gas in the current edition.
Do you really think that Ultimate Campaign or Mythic Adventures or another Golarion book will sell as much as a Pathfinder 2E Core Rulebook? And more importantly, do you really think that Ultimate Campaign (or one of the other books you suggest) will be selling as much as a Pathfinder 2E Core Rulebook three years from now?
To keep the company in business, they need "evergreen" products to keep cashflow coming in, and I have no doubt that sales of the Core Rulebook are starting to slow. Clearly Paizo is trying some other things to try to increase their market share (e.g. the card game, the virtual tabletop, licensing comic books and MMORPGs), but I'm pretty sure that one day soon most people who want a Pathfinder Core Rulebook will have one.
I think the AP instalments count as an 'evergreen' product (in financial terms, even if not as direct substitutions). We may not be buying the same AP every month, but those of us who are subscribed (which is a sizable number) are sending regular cash flow paizo's way.
Who knows the relative sales of the CRB vs the monthly AP, but it mitigates the point you make to some degree at least.
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I'm on board that we won't see Pathfinder 1.5 or 2.0 in 2014.
Let's go back to the OP's question though - if you had to come up with something tantalizing to put on the schedule for 2014, what would you release?
If your answer is NPC Codex 3 or Bestiary 5, it's a perfectly good answer. An asnwer of "nothing" doesn't make much sense though since Paizo will certainly want to print something.
It's always entertaining to come back to these threads a year later and see who guessed what.
My second guess - if not an Ultimate Intrigue, then something akin to Unearthed Arcana. This would contain various variant rules for a ton of things throughout the game. Perhaps the creme-de-la-creme from this venue?
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Speaking of variant rules, I'd like to see more support for Words of Power, and some other variant magic systems.
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I am wondering if it isn't time to do the Numeria AP, with a scifi in fantasy book. So rules for lasers, guns, spaceships, etc. Possibly even including Psychic Magic. It is an intriguing possibility.
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I am wondering if it isn't time to do the Numeria AP, with a scifi in fantasy book. So rules for lasers, guns, spaceships, etc. Possibly even including Psychic Magic. It is an intriguing possibility.
My magic ball says that GenCon 2014 book is called "Psionics & Tech" and will support the upcoming envitable Numeria+Distant Worlds AP.
The catalog only really goes through April of 2014, so I wouldn't draw any conclusions one way or the other about what might or might not come out after that.
That gives me some hope that James cryptic remarks when the Swashbuckler is mentioned will lead to something someday. Thanks! :)
My magic ball says that GenCon 2014 book is called "Psionics & Tech" and will support the upcoming envitable Numeria+Distant Worlds AP.
If you throw "Mutations" onto that, my 2014 will be glorious.
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My magic ball says that GenCon 2014 book is called "Psionics & Tech" and will support the upcoming envitable Numeria+Distant Worlds AP.If you throw "Mutations" onto that, my 2014 will be glorious.
Psychic magic, future tech, spaceships, mutations, planets, skymetals and sharks with lazor beam eyes. All of my money.
but I'm pretty sure that one day soon most people who want a Pathfinder Core Rulebook will have one.
Or two. Maybe three one day, when number one has fallen apart enough. ^^
I'm on board that we won't see Pathfinder 1.5 or 2.0 in 2014.
I don't think anybody was working under that delusion. :p But I think a realistic date is at the latest at the end of the decade. I just hope that Paizo solicits some heavy feedback when their development cycle for PF 2.0 begins, because I got a lot of thoughts percolating on the topic.
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I'm on board that we won't see Pathfinder 1.5 or 2.0 in 2014.I don't think anybody was working under that delusion. :p But I think a realistic date is at the latest at the end of the decade. I just hope that Paizo solicits some heavy feedback when their development cycle for PF 2.0 begins, because I got a lot of thoughts percolating on the topic.
Just make sure you don't ragequit and start a smear campaign against anything Paizo-related if your ideas don't make it into print, 'cause that's been known to happen in the past with some people ;-)
Hrmbl, why do I still see a certain someones posts on the thread list and then make the error of looking from there what he wrote? :-/
Anyway...
I just hope for the devs to take fan feedback into account when the time comes and make it part of their discussions. I don't expect fan ideas to exactly make it into any new edition at all, but at least that those ideas were noticed and considered. My feedback would not be on individual spells and feats in any case (aside from the Monk, ahem ^^), but rather on general design philosophies.
I am wondering if it isn't time to do the Numeria AP, with a scifi in fantasy book. So rules for lasers, guns, spaceships, etc. Possibly even including Psychic Magic. It is an intriguing possibility.My magic ball says that GenCon 2014 book is called "Psionics & Tech" and will support the upcoming envitable Numeria+Distant Worlds AP.
Pretty much what I think...
The two biggest "holes" I have most heard cited by Paizo people prior to last gencon are high level rules (which they need to do demon lords etc) and psychic magic (which they need to do Vudra and further develop some of the material in Distant Worlds).
Well Mythic was announced last Gencon. And in combination with a reference James Jacob made some time past where he said he didn't think a whole book was needed for psychic rules, and it could be part of another book, I could see the appeal of a science fantasy guide book that included psychics, cyborgs, lasers, etc for the Pathfinder game.
I think the AP instalments count as an 'evergreen' product (in financial terms, even if not as direct substitutions). We may not be buying the same AP every month, but those of us who are subscribed (which is a sizable number) are sending regular cash flow paizo's way.
Who knows the relative sales of the CRB vs the monthly AP, but it mitigates the point you make to some degree at least.
A company that sells X copies of an adventure path every month is not making as much income as a company that sells X copies of an adventure path and Y copies of the core rulebook.
A company that sells X copies of an adventure path every month is not making as much income as a company that sells X copies of an adventure path and Y copies of the core rulebook.I think the AP instalments count as an 'evergreen' product (in financial terms, even if not as direct substitutions). We may not be buying the same AP every month, but those of us who are subscribed (which is a sizable number) are sending regular cash flow paizo's way.
Who knows the relative sales of the CRB vs the monthly AP, but it mitigates the point you make to some degree at least.
Nor does it need the same kind of designers which would be needed to keep new rules rolling out. Hogarth is completely right here.
I am wondering if it isn't time to do the Numeria AP, with a scifi in fantasy book. So rules for lasers, guns, spaceships, etc. Possibly even including Psychic Magic. It is an intriguing possibility.My magic ball says that GenCon 2014 book is called "Psionics & Tech" and will support the upcoming envitable Numeria+Distant Worlds AP.
Except since they aren't calling it Psionics, I bet they don't put that word in the title. ;).
A company that sells X copies of an adventure path every month is not making as much income as a company that sells X copies of an adventure path and Y copies of the core rulebook.I think the AP instalments count as an 'evergreen' product (in financial terms, even if not as direct substitutions). We may not be buying the same AP every month, but those of us who are subscribed (which is a sizable number) are sending regular cash flow paizo's way.
Who knows the relative sales of the CRB vs the monthly AP, but it mitigates the point you make to some degree at least.
Of course. They could sell Y copies of another supplement instead though. My point was that it isn't necessary to have a rule book sustaining the company if flavour material can do the job. (They were doing fine staying in business pre-pathfinder, for instance).
Obviously they do better if they sell more of everything. But I don't think it's as necessary for them to be selling lots of core rule books as i took you to be you implying. (I don't deny it's desirable and without knowing the relative size of sales, the profit margin on each unit, etcetera etcetera it's not possible to say how significant a stagnation in rule book sales would be).
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If I would release anything it would be a 'best of' book taking a bunch of the best of the 3pp and putting it in a hardback. Maybe allowing some of it for PFS after that was done.
Slow and Steady wins the race, folks.
Can anyone confirm if there has been any 3pp PF material, which has already made its way back into the official rules, or not?
The way I always understood the OGL, it was always intended to be a two-way street. Curious how much that happened in practice.
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If I would release anything it would be a 'best of' book taking a bunch of the best of the 3pp and putting it in a hardback. Maybe allowing some of it for PFS after that was done.
Slow and Steady wins the race, folks.
Can anyone confirm if there has been any 3pp PF material, which has already made its way back into the official rules, or not?
The way I always understood the OGL, it was always intended to be a two-way street. Curious how much that happened in practice.
Weapon enchantments bypassing DR is an idea borrowed from Monte Cook's work, IIRC.
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Spells again look like actual spells. My wizard, while not having a familiar--still a problem--could at least cast illusions of whatever I wanted, as opposed 4e's annoying nonsense where illusions amounted to a pinch of meaningless descriptive blather cloaking a dumpy combat bonus and nothing more.
While I appreciate this move back to more traditional spells, I can't exactly blame WotC 100% for taking the route they did in 4E; considering the number of sessions wasted, over the years, listening to players and GM disputing what would be a believable use of an illusion, or reasonable Suggestion...I really don't need to backtrack every orc's life story, from cradle to present, to decide what his views would be on fratricide, you know what I mean?
Or "Before I rule whether the guard ignores his orders, and follows the illusion of the comely busty wench, I need to decide whether he had a visible father-figure, and if he was breast or bottle-fed as a child..."
"Jeez, man, why did you have to use an illusion? Couldn't you have just color sprayed him, and we can get on with the game?"
My cleric had Command again which had a small list of popular commands but a mention that other commands were possible if the DM allowed them--so when attacked by the goblin with the pickaxe, I used command word "Flagellate." Everyone laughed, the DM allowed it, and the goblin took himself out.
I'd have allowed it, but maybe had him drop the axe, and start hamboning himself. Slappity-clap-slap-flappity-clap....
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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If I would release anything it would be a 'best of' book taking a bunch of the best of the 3pp and putting it in a hardback. Maybe allowing some of it for PFS after that was done.
Slow and Steady wins the race, folks.
Can anyone confirm if there has been any 3pp PF material, which has already made its way back into the official rules, or not?
The way I always understood the OGL, it was always intended to be a two-way street. Curious how much that happened in practice.
How much of the JBE stuff for Kingdom Building did they put into Ultimate Campaign? Anything?
A company that sells X copies of an adventure path every month is not making as much income as a company that sells X copies of an adventure path and Y copies of the core rulebook.The core rulebook might be sold as something of a loss-leader though (with little profit), because it acts as the gateway to the rest of their products.
I wish I could find the message board post I'm thinking of, but an industry insider said that an RPG core rulebook is an ideal product because sales decrease in a slow and gentle manner compared to splatbooks which have a spike of sales and then trail off quickly. And in addition, a core rulebook has its production costs paid off fairly quickly and they benefit from the economies of scale from larger print runs. So in those senses a "core" book is the ideal product.
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I'm personally not that big on a repackaging/rebundling of rulesets (though I know my own tastes don't necessarily reflect the market), as the more introduction points there are, the more difficult it becomes for people to unravel how to get into the hobby, particularly when it comes from transitioning from the introductory products to the core rules (I'm not sure how many posts I've seen on here asking what to do after the Beginner Box, for example).
I can vouch for that, having got into the game via the Moldvay Basic box.
There were still adverts out for the Holmes box (and copies on some shop shelves), and the Mentzer box came out 2 years after. When the school club got together, there was often several sub-editions, even of one edition knocking into each other, and that's before you counted the players who'd graduated to playing with the big kids at 1E AD&D.Advice from shop staff was typically muddled. Having played out B1-4 and X1-2, we were assured by one that Dwellers of the Forbidden City was totally compatible with our Basic game.
It wasn't, but we bodged it somehow, ignoring references to anything we didn't recognise. We didn't even know a xorn had legs, I only had a picture of its head, so I assumed it had a giant worm body, that popped out of a hole in the wall...
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I wish I could find the message board post I'm thinking of, but an industry insider said that an RPG core rulebook is an ideal product because sales decrease in a slow and gentle manner compared to splatbooks which have a spike of sales and then trail off quickly. And in addition, a core rulebook has its production costs paid off fairly quickly and they benefit from the economies of scale from larger print runs. So in those senses a "core" book is the ideal product.
However, a Core rulebook released in a new edition too often ends up cannibalizing itself. Your customers lose faith that what they buy will be worthwhile for more than a couple of years to come, they will skip editions or jump ship altogether, or they'll decline to upgrade, and then also will no longer be possible customers for your new supplements.
There may be some evidence that this has happened with WOTC. I don't really know, because I don't know about sales figures. However, 4th edition appears to have stumbled (compared to what they wanted-- granted, it still sold more copies than almost every other roleplaying game out there, with the exception of Pathfinder, and of course with the exception of earlier editions of D&D). What's more, while the excellence of Paizo is certainly part of the reason they're the market leader right now, the fact that D&D is in a lull while waiting for the next edition to come out is assuredly also a contributor to why D&D's sales have sagged. It's not win/win/win to release new editions of your core rules all the time.
Nobody would argue with you that of all Paizo's books, the Core Rulebook is probably the single best seller. However, you make the leap from that to suggesting that it would be good for Paizo to release another Core Rulebook as soon as possible. That is not the case.
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I am wondering if it isn't time to do the Numeria AP, with a scifi in fantasy book. So rules for lasers, guns, spaceships, etc. Possibly even including Psychic Magic. It is an intriguing possibility.
I'd take this over an Ultimate Intrigue/Rogue book any day of the week.
I remember getting the sense that Paizo was tentative about printing Psychic Magic due to perceived low demand though.
The real challenge for this will also be bridging the folks who want a power point system vs a Vancian system, as I believe someone had hinted that Paizo would likely not be doing a power point system. This could further dent demand as folks throw up their hands and scoff, "wait - this isn't psionics like I thought it would be!"
Publisher, Chief Creative Officer
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To keep the company in business, they need "evergreen" products to keep cashflow coming in, and I have no doubt that sales of the Core Rulebook are starting to slow. Clearly Paizo is trying some other things to try to increase their market share (e.g. the card game, the virtual tabletop, licensing comic books and MMORPGs), but I'm pretty sure that one day soon most people who want a Pathfinder Core Rulebook will have one.
I'm not interested in seriously engaging when is a good time to do a new edition, if we'll do a new edition, etc., but I did want to say that we've sold more Core Rulebooks than the year before every single year since the Core Rulebook came out*, so we're not exactly looking at a precipitous decline like you might imagine. Or even a decline, period.
* This was not the case the year after the launch, for obvious reasons, but has held true since then.
The PED (Pathfinder English Dictionary). A book containing all the words, and their definitions, that appear in all Pathfinder products. This will end many, but not all, arguments about whether or not certain words actually mean what they do.
To keep the company in business, they need "evergreen" products to keep cashflow coming in, and I have no doubt that sales of the Core Rulebook are starting to slow. Clearly Paizo is trying some other things to try to increase their market share (e.g. the card game, the virtual tabletop, licensing comic books and MMORPGs), but I'm pretty sure that one day soon most people who want a Pathfinder Core Rulebook will have one.I'm not interested in seriously engaging when is a good time to do a new edition, if we'll do a new edition, etc., but I did want to say that we've sold more Core Rulebooks than the year before every single year since the Core Rulebook came out*, so we're not exactly looking at a precipitous decline like you might imagine. Or even a decline, period.
* This was not the case the year after the launch, for obvious reasons, but has held true since then.
That's interesting to know, Erik! I'm glad you haven't hit "peak Pathfinder" yet. :-)
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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More seriously, there have been a lot of good information on Golarion and Pathfinder monsters in all the dozens of Adventure Paths. I once collated all the 3.5 monsters from APs 1-24, and that was a bit of work. An AP-compilation Bestiary, or Golarion Gazeteer, would be welcome.
Maybe not the stand-out whiz-bang product to attract the attention of those new to the hobby.
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I'm hoping for something drool-worthy produced by Paizo at the same time .. something I feel is a must-have product that I can't live without buying as soon as it hits the virtual shelves.
Mostly, because I like buying drool-worthy products and want more of them.
I find this thread interesting. When folks post here, I glance at their subscriber tag line. When someone isn't subscribed to any product lines and they say "Paizo should just chill and do nothing", if they aren't a subscriber to a couple of Paizo's core subscription lines, then it's nearly moot since Paizo's revenue from that individual may really only be $20-30 next Summer.
Now if someone is a multi-product subscriber, Paizo's kind of banking on 2-3 months of subscription revenue from them - that probably means ~$200 next Summer from that individual, if not more.
5000 folks who think about pushing "pause" on their subscriptions next summer can affect Paizo. That's $1 million dollars of revenue lost on paused subscriptions so those 5000 folks (which isn't that many) can have the funds in their household to try D&D Next. Paizo also counts on some amount of new subscribers to replace churning subscribers. If every store throughout the U.S. is all abuzz with D&D Next, that also hurts the rate of new subscribers that they'd be counting on to replace their churn.
Thus, if Paizo releases something like "Ultimate Intrigue" (with a tasty swashbuckler base class) and a nice swashbuckling AP, I can tell you there's little odds of me hitting "pause" on my subscriptions. I think I have 5 or 6 of them now? But, if the line-up is stuff like NPC Codex 3, Gamemastery Guide 2, and say some AP that feels like a re-hash of one I already own, I'd be hard-pressed not to save my funds and give some thought to not at least give D&D Next a spin for "old time's sake".
To sum up - most of all, I find this thread interesting since I'm interested in speculation more on "what amazing product can Paizo make next Summer that you'd *have* to buy?" vs...
That last sentence was my purpose for the topic. I'm sad to see so many "They don't need to do anything" when I never suggested they needed to.
I agree whole heartedly that Paizo does an AMAZING job month in a month out with releases that keep my interest. I spend most of my RPG web browsing time here and adore the community. I have the playtest mats, but haven't really caught up reading them for a few updates. The quality of the DnDNext release or it's popularity or lack of it wasn't the point at all.
In business it's not considered being "scared" to position yourself on the shelf in an extra bright light when some new product is releasing at the same time, and will perhaps get more sets of eyes on them that week.
Without a doubt "what amazing product can Paizo make next Summer that you'd *have* to buy?" was EXACTLY my purpose as a fun thread experiment, but the vast majority went in a different direction sadly.
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That's interesting to know, Erik! I'm glad you haven't hit "peak Pathfinder" yet. :-)
To keep the company in business, they need "evergreen" products to keep cashflow coming in, and I have no doubt that sales of the Core Rulebook are starting to slow. Clearly Paizo is trying some other things to try to increase their market share (e.g. the card game, the virtual tabletop, licensing comic books and MMORPGs), but I'm pretty sure that one day soon most people who want a Pathfinder Core Rulebook will have one.I'm not interested in seriously engaging when is a good time to do a new edition, if we'll do a new edition, etc., but I did want to say that we've sold more Core Rulebooks than the year before every single year since the Core Rulebook came out*, so we're not exactly looking at a precipitous decline like you might imagine. Or even a decline, period.
* This was not the case the year after the launch, for obvious reasons, but has held true since then.
A smart business makes sure that the peak gets higher every day. I'm sure that getting out a video game, a comic, a board/card game, a Munchkin expansion, knitting patterns, goblin plushies and all that stuff targeted at non-RPG-gamer crowd in order to swoon them over to the hobby goes a long way.
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I am still of the opinion that a new Pathfinder Edition would suck. Its not necessary.It may not be necessary for Pathfinder players, but it may be necessary as another revenue stream for Paizo.
If it's a choice between having Paizo undergo radical downsizing and having Pathfinder 1.5/2E/Next, I'll take the latter.
Optimism is not my nature but I think there is a pervasive pessimism about the future.
Paizo cut its chops making content for a what was a tired bloated system whose only income stream was power creep. They made money then by injecting solid content via Dragon, Dungeon and Adventure Paths. They then upped that bet by rather than transitioning to the new system but instead saying lets keep 3.x going by publishing Pathfinder RPG.
My point is that more than anyone else Paizo should be aware that substantive content trumps new editions. Now a new edition my happen at some point but I hope that its a long time away because I don't in anyway see the need for drastic change. What I will always see the need for is engaging content. New editions recycle content.