Fist of the Heavens! A guide for the Champion of Irori!

[oitomeia]

How should I build a CoI with 30 points?

I'm really into Oracle with Sidestep (since I can pump my charisma and apply to my saves with Pally level 2)

In my current campaing I can create a 30 point character level 7 and I was thinking about something like this:

1. Cleric (Guided Hand)
2. Oracle (Sidestep Secret)
3. Paladin
4. Paladin (Divine Grace)
5. Monk
6. Monk
7. Monk

Start getting levels on CoI during the game ...

(The order doesn't matter since I'll begin level 7)

Will it work for a Spirit CoI? How can I build this and actually deal damage? (Since Guided Hand only applies to Attack Rolls)

I forgot to mention this campaing is extremelly low gold :(

[prototype00]

The damage will be mostly with your smite (though with 30 points, you can certainly pump strength a bit) and with Eldritch heritage (orc) to boost strength.

Low gold will be a problem, since Ring of Ki Mastery and being unarmored will both be gold intensive. I'm not quite sure how to fix that.

prototype00

[oitomeia]

But are those 7 levels setup any good? Getting Oracle and Cleric before everything else is stupid, somehow?

[prototype00]

Its another level of 0 BaB with some 1st level spells to show for it. AC will be okay due to sidestep secret. Your party is definitely going to have to carry you for a bit.

prototype00

[oitomeia]

Should I go for Paladin Hospitaler (Level 4) instead? Reach level 8 and then start leveling CoI?

[Valiant]

One of the prereq for the prestiege class is that you have the 'Still Mind' class ability.

Now correct me if I'm wrong:

A lot of the Monk Archetypes you are mentioning in your guide require Still Mind to be swapped out.

So you can't get the prestiege class with those archetypes...so they might not be worth mentioning?

Again, correct me if I'm wrong, please.

Love the read on everything else!

[prototype00]

Which archetypes did I mention that trade away Still Mind? I thought I was careful about that. If I included any that was a mistake.

Prototype00

Oh wait, sorry you meant mention the ones that trade it away? I was rather banking on people reading the pre-reqs themselves and making the right decision (lazy I guess)

[Zilfrel Findadur]

Hey dude can you take a look at my character sheet and tell me if it's legit please? i read the guide an built this character based on it :D

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=983569

[Zilfrel Findadur]

oh and these are the students of this wise guy.

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=985241

not quite sure if the Saving Throws are good.

[prototype00]

So 4 levels of hospitaler to qualify for guided hand and then transition into CoI, its great if you have the patience for it (or start at a higher level)! Otherwise, looks fine, where is your cloak of protection +5 for basically unbeateable saves?

Oh, and Crane's wing isn't as good these days, but you'll still take it so you can fight defensively with Osyluth guile. Le sigh. (Dude, where is your Osyluth Guile?)

prototype00

[Zilfrel Findadur]

I removed it, but i think i changed my mind, i think i will replace it with Improved Grapple, the guy is practically unhittable right now xD
i just want to see how they beat this encounter, is a CR 18-ish. I will put 2 students and the master, so i put selective channel to the master so he could uber heal his students and still be unhittable.

People will tell this encounter is evil by nature, but one of the PCs is a min/maxed munchkin and more experienced than me, so he will probably resolve it.

[oitomeia]

Since I've started on level 8 (And we're getting lots of XP each game) I did this:

Paladin Hospitaler - 4
Monk of the Lotus - 3
Oracle - 1

With 30 points to ability scores (It works with 25 too) I got Wisdom and Charisma to 18 (Both 16 +2 from human +2 from atribute bonus on 4 and 8)

Got +4 on anything from Monk (Bonus AC, Saves for Touch of Serenity and "to Hit" with Guided Hand)

Got +4 on anthing from Paladin (Channels, Smite, Saves etc)

Going to get Osyluth Guile on Level 9 (Since I can't get earlier); together with my first level on CoI.

************************************************************************
Edit*:

BTW, what are your thoughts on going pure Snake style? Buff sense motive and completely forget about armor!

[TheSideKick]

You need to update this guide to include an armored character. Mithril Brest plate, moms monk archetype with tiger and dragon styles can hurt so bad with tiger claws and smite evil. Str=cha >con>dex>wis>int tiger style adds mobility and a massive "pounce" like slap to the face. 4x str 2x unarmed damage, power attack at 2.5x and 2x smite evil. Easily over 100 dpr at level 12. I can't remember the exact damage against an evil or chaotic target but it hurts.

[christos gurd]

i suspect the acg is going to affect this guide a lot.

[Fernando Henry]

First of all, great guide Prototype! I found your guide randomly a few days ago and ever since I've been using all my spare time thinking on making a CoI. Very inspiring!!!

I have a few suggestions. First and foremost, you ask feedback on your guide and there is now contact mean on it, maybe a link to this topic is a good idea!

About the attribute, some suggestions for allocating in 15, 20 and 25 point-buy may be very useful. Still on the attribute topic I think you should make it more explicit the MAD problem and how to avoid it. My suggestion is the following:
1- Strength: Belt of str and orc bloodline gives 18 points of str, making the guided hand feat redundant;
2- Dexterity: UMD with a ring of mystery (Lore/Sidestep secret);
3- Intelligence: UMD with a ring of mystery (Lore/Mental Acuity) hopefully the same ring using the magic enchantment of equipment, I think this is FPS illegal if you don’t have the appropriate craft feat;

All in all, I think the last consideration makes the two builds you suggest rather antiquate.

How to make a low level character. Probably from first to seventh level you are going to have some difficulties, how to overcome them? I Still don't know...

Skill guide. You need 10 ranks to classify to the PrC, if you are nor human and dump int to 7 you'll only have 11 ranks in skill. If you pretend to get some style feat then you'll have some problems.

I don't think you are taking full advantage of the martial artist class feature. If you chose an archetype that loses the FoB you'll get it back. Furthermore when flurrying “For the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus from his monk class levels is equal to his monk level”. Pure gold!

Pursuit of Knowledge is very good, just combine it with some Lore secrets via a mystery ring!

Valiant Stand is AWESOME it's a bonus from 2 to 5 in AC and to hit, both of them are some serious CoI problems until very high levels, ok it is a 9th level ability...

Skill Mastery is uber blue, with it you can take 10 on UMD wile sleeping, making the int bonus from ring of mystery (Lore/Mental Acuity) a permanent thing. That is, you can use it to get more skill points!!!

Whirlwind Smite is very nice to say the least. With it, and a good wisdom, you can spend only one smite for a crowd. Depending on the case, freeing you from the cleric level and bronze gong.

Perfect opening and your AoA combo is probably wrong, I think. You only get one AoA per action. It doesn’t maters, if on the same action your adversary provoked it 20 time in the same action you only get one. An example of it is moving with the same action around you, you only get one!

For what I said before, I believe that the MoMS is very blue archetype!!

Hospitaler kicks in very late in the game to justify it, and you lose one SE (from the Silver Smite Bracers).

Regards
Fernando

[Papa-DRB]

Will be starting a new campaign in a few months and this is one of three character concepts that I am contemplating.

The AP will take us to 17th level, probably for the last few battles only, so I was wondering how to break down the classes, and in what order to take them.

At the end I will be Cleric 1 / Monk 3 (4?) / Paladin 3 (2?) / CoI 10.

Human, 20 point buy. S-11(12?), D-12(13?), C-12, I-8, W-17(16?), H-16

I am thinking of taking the classes in this order: Cleric 1 / Paladin 1 / Monk 3 / CoI 10 and take the last two levels of either Monk/Paladin or Paladin only at the end.

What do you guys think about classes and stats?

The background that I have worked out in my head supports Cleric/Paladin/Monk/CoI chain, so that is fixed, but when to I take the last levels and which ones?

-- david

[Rizaidym]

prototype00 wrote:

So you would consider having a couple of extra ki points around (that could, as you say, be used for smiting, but will more than likely be used for self/party healing seeing as how as this is a frontline character that doesn't wear armor, and the CoI does not progress number of lay on hands) as something beyond even the pale of a serious powergamer, with access to the like of summoners and druids?

Well and good, at least I know where you are coming from.

prototype00

I would like to point out this line in the CoI's Ki Pool class feature: In addition to the normal uses of this ki pool, a champion of the enlightened may expend 2 ki points to trigger either his lay on hands ability (if he has it) or his smite evil ability. His class levels stack with paladin levels when determining the effect of such abilities.

Emphasis mine. CoI advances lay on hands, I believe.

EDIT: Er, wait, does it? I think I just second -guessed myself. Clarify, please?

[prototype00]

It advances the lay on hands amounts, but not the number of times you can do it.

prototype00

[Richard Forrest]

I think the Unchained monk will do wonders for this class. Full BAB and a flurry that works well with Multiclassing, combined with d10 HD.

[Woran]

I am really curious of there is a good synergy with a sacred fist warpriest

[Gidonihah]

So if I'm reading this right, I think using Bracers of Celestial Intervention with this Prestige class would be very powerful.

Getting nine smite evils to sacrifice in order to get Summon Monster 9 should be very doable.

And it may even be powerful enough to justify increasing the amount of Ki you aim to generate, so as to make a summoner Paladin of sorts.

[Richard Forrest]

Gidonihah wrote:

So if I'm reading this right, I think using Bracers of Celestial Intervention with this Prestige class would be very powerful.

Getting nine smite evils to sacrifice in order to get Summon Monster 9 should be very doable.

And it may even be powerful enough to justify increasing the amount of Ki you aim to generate, so as to make a summoner Paladin of sorts.

Wouldn't work that way. Burning Ki just allows you to use Smite Evil an additional time per day, it doesn't actually grant you more uses. You'd only be able to use it as summon monster ii, more than likely.

[christos gurd]

the new tortured crusader wisdom based paladin could be interesting since it says that DOES get smite evil, albeit altered.

[Zedorland]

Tortutured crusader allows for a far less MAD build, focusing largely on wisdom and strength/dex.

Oread seems strong in this regard.

[Douglas Muir 406]

Bump: has anyone done an update of this Guide? In particular, for the Unchained Monk?

Doug M.