I have a player with a wand of cure light wounds (I have just found out how much I hate these as a GM now lol, he bought it form a magic shop with full 50 charges), he is using it and marking off the charges but seems to be using it rather too much.
Case in point. Trap set off squishing him and casuing 50hp damage. He was stabilised and brought back to zero then promptley used up enough charges to heal up to max hp whilst the rest of the party just stood waiting or investingated the room further. I had no problem with this as he was marking the charges off and the other players were pre-occupied anyway. I thought no more of it.
But after the game one of the other players remarked to me that he thought it was a little excessive and is there a rule that says how many times a wand can be used per day for instance?
My thinking is if he has the time nad charges and he only uses 1 charge per standard action it shoudn't matter as once the charges are gone that's it.
Anybody any ideas?
I find curing up from a wand of cure light to be a fairly standard cleric activity. If 50 HP of damage has been done to several characters, I see no reason not to heal everyone up if your job as cleric is to keep everyone healed (at least outside of combat). It's a standard action to use, so you can use it 10 times a minute, so it's not (in a time in game sense) preventing the group from doing whatever they want to do in that room investigating and the cleric can rejoin them a few minutes afterward, missing almost none of it. I doubt the group will be upset that they were healed.
BUT! You're the GM. If you feel the party having easy access to healing is a problem, then cap the wand like others have said. But you might find that throwing traps that do 50 damage at your party w/out a consistent way for the party to heal will result in the group stopping to sleep more often (to recharge the wand), that he'll carry a golf club bag full of healing wands (unless it's 10 max total and not by wand) or characters dying more often (as the cleric would like to memorize some spells other than curing spells).
By the rules, there is no limit. As long as he has charges in the wand, he can use it until it's used up. Wands of Cure Light Wounds are an extremely cost-effective means of healing - as you've noticed, the only downside is the time taken to use each charge. About the only thing I can suggest is that you as the GM keep track of the charges (or at least make them tracked out in the open where everyone can see it - my players have, in the past, used a whiteboard). Remember, it can only heal a maximum of 450 hit points before it's drained, and the player has to buy another. Also, don't let him roll the healing in private - make those rolls public.
All healing up does is improve one of the almost infinite variety of finite resources the party has to manage (hit points). As GM it is trivial to get that wand used up, just by hitting him more. It doesn't matter if he's at full hit points for the start of every combat: daily use abilities like spells affect encounter outcomes far more than hit points do. Throw an extra encounter at the party. Hit them while they're resting. Add a monster or two to the next few encounters. That 750 gp will vanish in short order.
The only additional thing to note is that it could be construed as unfair to "punish" intelligent use of resources (and buying a wand of CLW is definitely the smart thing to do). There is no need to do so, and there are many ways to make that resource have a negligible effect in the long run.
Also known as the "well, you're all healed up, have no spells, and there's a fire giant looking at you funny" solution.
Would you rather they sit around a day for the cleric to regain spells to heal, or worse yet, leave the adventure to return home to heal? If the players want their characters to be healed up, they will find a way. Healing wands keep the story moving at a faster pace imo.
This is what I'd like to ask from the OP.
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I would say my self I dont care if the party wants to buy 300 wands of Cure light wounds its there gold, and if they want to use those wands I dont care, its for them to use.
A few things:
1: Who has 300 Wands just "sitting around" for so relatively cheap?
2: Who says they all work?
3: Who says they are what the label on the package says they are?
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Would you rather they sit around a day for the cleric to regain spells to heal, or worse yet, leave the adventure to return home to heal? If the players want their characters to be healed up, they will find a way. Healing wands keep the story moving at a faster pace imo.This is what I'd like to ask from the OP.
Game time doesn't have to flow at the same rate is real time, we all know that right. Sometimes having to leave a dungeon and head to a safe camp or town was the norm in 'ye old days'. By having such items resource management and party cohesiveness becomes far less important.
So, the party decides to leave the dungeon to rest up instead of using a wand to heal.
When they head back, they find the rest of the dungeon had been cleaned up by someone else.
Said person probably was smart enough to pack a wand or two, and had got off with the loot instead of the PCs.
The world is not static. It's only logical that someone would go and claim the treasures, especially if someone already cleared the way for them.
I dont care if they have the money to buy 300 wands I would let them, yes its extreme and that was why I used that, I guess the real question is why did they buy only wands of cure light wounds and not better healing wands. That's the real question. :p
Cure light wands give you the best bang for your buck. Why pay 4500 GP for 2d8+3 Cure mod wand when I can spend 750GP and just cast cure light twice?
A few things:
1: Who has 300 Wands just "sitting around" for so relatively cheap?
2: Who says they all work?
3: Who says they are what the label on the package says they are?
Don't you know that Cleric Wal-Mart is well established in Pathfinder? :P
I would say my self I dont care if the party wants to buy 300 wands of Cure light wounds its there gold, and if they want to use those wands I dont care, its for them to use.A few things:
1: Who has 300 Wands just "sitting around" for so relatively cheap?
2: Who says they all work?
3: Who says they are what the label on the package says they are?
Really?
1. No one. He was exaggerating. And the price is a set price in the book. Its not like they are buying them at a discount.
2. Well thats what Spellcraft is for. You check. And you buy your wands from a reputable source. If you are buying them from a guy in a shady ally... sure they might not be as advertised. Otherwise its just the DM being a ... not nice person.
3. See number 2.
@Heaggles - Its the most cost effective wand. If your using it for out of combat healing there is no reason to get more expensive wands.
@0P - Whats the issue? He is using it for Out of Combat healing. Are you wanting your party to run into combat situations half dead? This is fine. Actually its been a staple suggestion by most cleric/healing guides that I have read. Most groups I run/play in spend party loot on Wands of healing before they buy anything else.
Game time doesn't have to flow at the same rate is real time, we all know that right. Sometimes having to leave a dungeon and head to a safe camp or town was the norm in 'ye old days'. By having such items resource management and party cohesiveness becomes far less important.
Name one Fantasy story where the Hero left the dungeon/place of the Bad Guy and went and camped for the night. Name one.
Its unrealistic. And just cause it is from the old days doesnt make it a good thing. As a hero trying to save a prisoner to the evil lich... are you really going to leave and come back 4 or 5 times. And why hasn't the lich caught on and sealed off your entry or refilled the rooms you went through with more guards. Is the whole dungeon static and no one every walks around and discovers that for the past 3 days you have been coming in and out of the dungeon slaughtering its denzins.
If out of combat healing can limit sillness like this then I am all for it.
Don't bother with doing anything with the wands other than making sure charges are tracked and wands are paid for. Unless you have a dedicated healer then wands are your primary method for healing. Beyond that a wand of CLW is still preferable for the cleric because he doesn't have to worry about spending all his spell slots on healing and can use them for something else, especially at mid levels. Consider that a CLW cast by the cleric will heal for 1d8+5 (9.5 hp avg). A wand of CLW made by the cleric will heal for 1d8+1 (5 hp avg). However, rather than casting CLW as a first level spell the cleric could instead cast (as buffs) Bless, Divine Favor, Magic weapon, and others. As debuffs you could cast Bane, Doom, Forbid Action, and others. Now when a character has 90 hp and isn't in immeadiate danger more powerful healing isn't needed to rectify the situation. You can take your time and use a wand of CLW to top him off, rather than waste you chances to buff or debuff. The buffs may be small, but still probably more useful than +9 hp.
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If the question (being this is the Rules forum) is whether using a wand of CLW over and over to heal up between encounters is legal, yes it is.
If the question is whether changing this might improve the game in some way, first you need to identify the problem (if there is one): Is there something you're wanting from the game that using a wand for out-of-combat healing prevents you from getting? You're going to have to start there. Then we'll be able to make useful suggestions on what to do about it.
Why not give out 3.5 healing belts instead of wands of cure. They work forever but only have 3 charges per day. A resonable trade off for to the unlimited use per day but only 50 charges of cure wands. That would be my recomendation, but I certainly wouldnt suggest limiting wand usage if they still only have a set number of charges to use.
The starting trap (the 50 damage squish trap) sounds like the worst type of trap design that has infested D&D. It only targeted one PC, it simply cost resources and then it's over.
Not necessarily, the trap's purpose might only be "show". That means be there just to scare or to help reinforce the whole "why anyone else been here yet" and such.
I am not saying that such a trap set to challenge the players is a good design, i am just saying that such a trap can serve other goals.To answer the OP, no there isn't a limit.
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There's no limit. Don't even try. The limit is that it costs 15gp every time he does it, and only heals 1d8+1. The other limit is a standard action, which takes 6 seconds. The actual dice rolling should take less than that. If the other players can't wait 30 seconds for the guy to heal himself so he can not die when they need him...I don't even know what to say about your group. CLW wands fine just the way they are.
I really don't see the issue, if he uses all those charges on himself and then there are not any left for later, oh well.
I have a player with a wand of cure light wounds (I have just found out how much I hate these as a GM now lol, he bought it form a magic shop with full 50 charges), he is using it and marking off the charges but seems to be using it rather too much.
Case in point. Trap set off squishing him and casuing 50hp damage. He was stabilised and brought back to zero then promptley used up enough charges to heal up to max hp whilst the rest of the party just stood waiting or investingated the room further. I had no problem with this as he was marking the charges off and the other players were pre-occupied anyway. I thought no more of it.
But after the game one of the other players remarked to me that he thought it was a little excessive and is there a rule that says how many times a wand can be used per day for instance?
My thinking is if he has the time nad charges and he only uses 1 charge per standard action it shoudn't matter as once the charges are gone that's it.
Anybody any ideas?
No there is no such rule, and why do you hate them?
I wonder if that other player would have been complaining if it was his character on the line...
PS:You are correct it is one use per standard action once the charges are gone the wand is just a stick.
Stefan I have never played a game where a 2nd group followed the first group hoping they cleared the dungeon out for them. However if group 2 did employ this tactic it would be common thinking that either group 1 cleared the dungeon, in which case they would be jumped in their weakened state.
If group 2 was worried about group 1 being to powerful to jump, even in a weakened state then I doubt they will try to go through a dungeon that sent group 1 packing.
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Why not give out 3.5 healing belts instead of wands of cure. They work forever but only have 3 charges per day. A resonable trade off for to the unlimited use per day but only 50 charges of cure wands. That would be my recomendation, but I certainly wouldnt suggest limiting wand usage if they still only have a set number of charges to use.
my old party had almost every member with that belt and the Anklet of Translocation.....that told me that those items were either underpriced, excessively important or showed glaring holes in the system where such items are too needed.
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I would say my self I dont care if the party wants to buy 300 wands of Cure light wounds its there gold, and if they want to use those wands I dont care, its for them to use.A few things:
1: Who has 300 Wands just "sitting around" for so relatively cheap?
2: Who says they all work?
3: Who says they are what the label on the package says they are?
Ah yes, you are perhaps referring to the great ClerWandCo debacle of ’69.
It was eventually traced back to a change in management at the ClerWandCo factory of Port Hobbs, Nebraska (AE), specifically the retirement of the quality assurance manager and her temporary replacement by a senior vice president of dimensional inter-cross traffic shipping and receiving.
It turned out that 78 of the 300 shipped Wands of Cure Light Wounds were actually Wands of Decompose Corpse due to a technical error on the procurement documentation, a simply transposition error of the sixth and ninth digits of the On Line Wand Order forms.
A class action suit is still pending
I blame Malfoy
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I would say my self I dont care if the party wants to buy 300 wands of Cure light wounds its there gold, and if they want to use those wands I dont care, its for them to use.A few things:
1: Who has 300 Wands just "sitting around" for so relatively cheap?
2: Who says they all work?
3: Who says they are what the label on the package says they are?
Ah yes, you are perhaps referring to the great ClerWandCo debacle of ’69.
It was eventually traced back to a change in management at the ClerWandCo factory of Port Hobbs, Nebraska (AE), specifically the retirement of the quality assurance manager and her temporary replacement by a senior vice president of dimensional inter-cross traffic shipping and receiving.
It turned out that 78 of the 300 shipped Wands of Cure Light Wounds were actually Wands of Decompose Corpse due to a technical error on the procurement documentation, a simply transposition error of the sixth and ninth digits of the On Line Wand Order forms.
A class action suit is still pending
I'm sorry to say that Port Hobbs, Nebraska was recently wiped off the map due to a mysterious explosion and consumed by fire.
Blimey, come back after work to find a lot of replies. Seems I'm doing the right thing then. He can use it as many times as he wants until the charges run out. Maybe the unhappy player is just a bit miffed that the other player is not sharing the cures I guess.
Blimey, come back after work to find a lot of replies. Seems I'm doing the right thing then. He can use it as many times as he wants until the charges run out. Maybe the unhappy player is just a bit miffed that the other player is not sharing the cures I guess.
Did the miffed player help pay for the Wand of CLW? If not, then he's got nothing to be miffed about. He should have bought one on his own or contributed to the group pool to pay for it.
Blimey, come back after work to find a lot of replies. Seems I'm doing the right thing then. He can use it as many times as he wants until the charges run out. Maybe the unhappy player is just a bit miffed that the other player is not sharing the cures I guess.
HA! Yeah, the character can buy this own wand and have the cleric use it on him. :P
Personally, my clerics always try to keep everyone healed as reasonably as possible, but for some healing is a valuable source of income! :P
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Well, it kind of makes sense to put a limit on magical healing per day. There's only so much magical screwing around you can have done to you before your biology starts to go on strike. Even mundane medicines have "bad effects" if you use them too often or for too long. You can't just go popping acetaminophen like Tic-Tacs for too long before your liver hands in its resignation papers. Maybe something like a soft-cap... you can be healed up to your max HP per day + your total Con score as a given, but after that, you must roll a con check to see if the "overdose" of magical healing starts having detrimental affects on your physiology (ie. leaves you fatigued, sickened, or staggered).
I disagree. Because magic.
This is one of the ways 3.5 has evolved. The design assumptions assume that in fairness to the player, they can choose to spend their money on being at full hit points all the time.
Since that is obviously the optimal way to play, you can't fault players for doing it. It only makes sense. I'm going to wear a seatbelt if I plan to crash a car. I'm going to use a wand to heal to full HP if I plan to open a dungeon door I fully suspect a horrible monster dwells behind.
As a GM, I've just given over to it. I assume in all of my balance efforts (usually reviewing AP encounters before running them) that my party will be at full HP. It's actually easier than trying to predict how back-to-back encounters will play out.
There's no need to rely on attrition to challenge the characters. Build your challenges around full HP, and the game plays just fine.
I personally find the "cure wand dance" between encounters to be tedious, so I hand wave that too. Any time the players would have a few minutes to do the wand dance, I let them go back to full. Sort of. I have an elaborate house rule that explains how this works, without recourse to "healing bursts" or any such silliness.
In other words — this isn't the player's fault. If you find the aesthetics of smart wand use to be undesirable, you can and should just take wands away and restore HP between fights if the players get time to rest.