Goblin Squad Member
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I understand the business plan and think its brilliant. But I will iterate what I was trying to say in other threads. Sometimes its more cost/time effective to properly implement something early the first time, because sometimes it becomes unfeasible to add later.
I still think it will be worth the effort to build a rotating neck structure into the default template model you are using, or even copy and paste the neck structure into all future models. So future VR tech will be much easier to implement.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'd like to say that this is an awesome insight into what the timeline and milestones are going to look like. With a better idea of the MVP and the OE launch goals, we'll hopefully be able to keep the discussion channeled in a productive direction.
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Goblin Squad Member
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We are targeting four roles for the start of Early Enrollment: fighters, wizards, rogues, and clerics.
Will we be able to activate our Destiny's Twin at the beginning of Early Enrollment?
Suppose I want to play a Paladin for my Destiny's Twin, but don't want to spend anything in Fighter yet. Could I go ahead and start earning XP and just save it up for later when Paladins are implemented?
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Goblin Squad Member
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We are targeting four roles for the start of Early Enrollment: fighters, wizards, rogues, and clerics.Will we be able to activate our Destiny's Twin at the beginning of Early Enrollment?
Suppose I want to play a Paladin for my Destiny's Twin, but don't want to spend anything in Fighter yet. Could I go ahead and start earning XP and just save it up for later when Paladins are implemented?
That's exactly what I plan to do with my twin. Hopefully I'll be able to swap him over to the race I want him to be later on.
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Goblin Squad Member
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EE will begin with humans, elves, dwarfs, and gnomes... right? Because we met that Kickstarter stretch goal.
EDIT: Of course that becomes less of an issue if you double-dog promise that characters created to participate at the beginning of EE will have (at least one) opportunity to have a total racial/feature/sex make-over i.e. just run through the character creator again when the full options are available.
At least one optional xp reset window (after Open Enrollment?) would be a good reassurance to get players involved at the beginning in some fashion -fighter- knowing that later they can still have their holy bardic half-orc dungeon crawling barbarian herbal healer/vintner from tabletop.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Overall, I'm very impressed with Ryan's willingness to lay bare so much of their planning. I'm sure there will be elements here that disappoint some people, but it's quite reassuring to me that they're setting very clear expectations of what we should expect for EE and OE.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Very interesting read, and thanks. Looking forward to discussing it with my crowdforger guildmates, and also with the Teamspeak group.
For those of us dreaming of roles that won't hit till open enrollment (sorceror, ranger, etc.), will we have the chance to reallocate training time as the new roles are added (similar to the race-change option for people as new races are added), or should we just plan not to start those characters for a couple of years after early enrollment?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Sometimes its more cost/time effective to properly implement something early the first time, because sometimes it becomes unfeasible to add later.
Likewise, sometimes the effort spent planning for a system that you haven't fully designed is completely lost once you go back with a complete design, because your initial planning didn't take critical factors into account. I've also become convinced that following good design standards makes a system generally extensible without the need to implement specific "hooks" for an undesigned system.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Proxima, my understanding based on the results of the crowdforging poll was that Gnomes would be the first race added, not that they would promise to have them in at the start.
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Goblin Squad Member
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From Dario's link above:
The very first Crowdforging poll closed, and the result of the vote was that Gnomes will be prioritized as the next race added to the game, and they will be added during Early Enrollment.
It's rather explicit that they won't be available at the beginning of Early Enrollment. However, I think it's good to remind everyone of this promise that Gnomes would be included before Open Enrollment.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Very interesting read, and thanks. Looking forward to discussing it with my crowdforger guildmates, and also with the Teamspeak group.
For those of us dreaming of roles that won't hit till open enrollment (sorceror, ranger, etc.), will we have the chance to reallocate training time as the new roles are added (similar to the race-change option for people as new races are added), or should we just plan not to start those characters for a couple of years after early enrollment?
I'd like to know this as well, BOTH of the characters I want to make are not going to be around until after the start of EE (sorcerer will probably be around before OE, but my Aristocrat will not likely be fully available until after OE. Guess he'll have to be a rogue then :) )
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Goblin Squad Member
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Looks good. Only one big complaint. When adding weapons, do away with crossbows in the original list and switch it to a two handed melee weapon such as greatswords or halberds.
This is because there is more difference (build wise) between 2-handed, dual wielding, and sword and board melee than there is between a crossbow and a shortbow user but the animations will be very different for all of them.
Also I'm assuming you're already planning on shields and holy symbols.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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We are targeting four roles for the start of Early Enrollment: fighters, wizards, rogues, and clerics.Will we be able to activate our Destiny's Twin at the beginning of Early Enrollment?
Suppose I want to play a Paladin for my Destiny's Twin, but don't want to spend anything in Fighter yet. Could I go ahead and start earning XP and just save it up for later when Paladins are implemented?
One possibility would be that all archetypes are variants and/or combinations of the four main ones; all Paladins would need to have basic fighter and cleric training before taking the Paladin-specific skills.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The hexes will be laid out in an east-west configuration.What does that mean? Is it a reference to the direction the "points" of the hex face?
I suspect this might represent something like four rows of 36 hexes, six rows of 24 hexes, or eight rows of 18 hexes, with the long axis being east-west. If so, it seems likely that East and West might be sides, and North and South might be corners.
(Side note: I've never liked the fact that hexes twist North/South + East/West into either North/South + Northeast-ish/Southwest-ish + Northwest-ish/Southeast-ish or East/West + Northeast-ish/Southwest-ish + Northwest-ish/Southeast-ish. Unfortunately, square grids aren't perfect, either.)
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Goblin Squad Member
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One possibility would be that all archetypes are variants and/or combinations of the four main ones; all Paladins would need to have basic fighter and cleric training before taking the Paladin-specific skills.We are targeting four roles for the start of Early Enrollment: fighters, wizards, rogues, and clerics.Will we be able to activate our Destiny's Twin at the beginning of Early Enrollment?
Suppose I want to play a Paladin for my Destiny's Twin, but don't want to spend anything in Fighter yet. Could I go ahead and start earning XP and just save it up for later when Paladins are implemented?
That reminds me of Second Edition AD&D. I thought that arrangement of classes was one of the best aspects of that system. Funny how themepark MMOs turned the Big Four into the Big Three...
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yeah +1 on the gnomes (you promised!) and +1 on the assurance EE players will get 1 racial change per Destiny Twin character.
Other than that, pretty much what I was expecting and glad it's been cleared up. This blog was really needed I think some of the threads in here have been pretty unnecessary because this stuff wasn't clear. Also glad to see the assurances about the character creator and how the "toons" will grow with the game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Reading the blog again, it looks as though you're only going to have ONE NPC settlement at the start - what alignment will that be and how will it affect characters who don't match that alignment?
Good question. I have a feeling that alignment concerns won't be in effect at the start. Not sure about CCs. Whether they will even exist then. There wasn't mention of them either, for MVP EE...
Edit: Just to be clear. "I have a feeling that alignment concerns won't be in effect at the start." I mean as far as settlement membership. Pretty sure the PVP system will be in there. Just a guess though.
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Goblin Squad Member
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As many have said before me hoping and praying that I would be able to respec my character as new ability and traits become available. It be nice to be able to jump in as early as I can but know that down the road I can tweak her or his ability as the blog seems to indicate I can change her or looks.
Everything that was said here makes me real excited to be in this game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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We are targeting four roles for the start of Early Enrollment: fighters, wizards, rogues, and clerics.Will we be able to activate our Destiny's Twin at the beginning of Early Enrollment?
Suppose I want to play a Paladin for my Destiny's Twin, but don't want to spend anything in Fighter yet. Could I go ahead and start earning XP and just save it up for later when Paladins are implemented?
Please allow us to do this. I have no interest in any of the four classes that are planned for EE. More so I dont want to waste my twin on one i wont play.
For me the Paladin, ranger, druid and the most interesting.
OR perhaps a comprimise. As you are thinking about doing with races (allowing a single race change) would you consider allowing a SINGLE archtype change or respec for those of us who want to play but dont want to play one of those four?
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Goblin Squad Member
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You don't level a role directly, you level skills which are required to advance in your role of choice.
So if you want to be a sword and board paladin you could start by skilling shield and sword abilities, health and heavy armor, some divine casting, perhaps diplomacy etc.
At the point paladins are released you'll be able to go in and quickly level up any remaining skills you might need and shoot up through the paladin levels with ease.
No reason for respeccing. Respeccing wouldn't work well with this game's skill systems.
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Goblin Squad Member
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You don't level a role directly, you level skills which are required to advance in your role of choice.
So if you want to be a sword and board paladin you could start by skilling shield and sword abilities, health and heavy armor, some divine casting, perhaps diplomacy etc.
At the point paladins are released you'll be able to go in and quickly level up any remaining skills you might need and shoot up through the paladin levels with ease.
No reason for respeccing. Respeccing wouldn't work well with this game's skill systems.
i wouldnt be so sure about that. remember if you slot all fighter skills you get a bonus to fighter stuff, but if you slot fighter and cleric skills you dont get the dedication bonus.
now i agree that having say - one hand weapon skill tree, two handed weapon skill tree, shield skill tree...etc would be great, but i bet the one handed weapon skills you learn is based on which archtype tree you are learning it in.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Please allow us to do this. I have no interest in any of the four classes that are planned for EE. More so I dont want to waste my twin on one i wont play.For me the Paladin, ranger, druid and the most interesting.
OR perhaps a comprimise. As you are thinking about doing with races (allowing a single race change) would you consider allowing a SINGLE archtype change or respec for those of us who want to play but dont want to play one of those four?
I understand that it wouldn't be wasted, you would just be accumulating xp that hasn't been allocated/designated/spent. Remember that you then have to spend the offline xp on skills you gain online.
The next question is really about cross-skilling. Training heavy armor, longsword, shield and cleric spells shouldn't be a waste of time for a future Paladin.
I got one more minor request. Since reputation and the alignment system won't be in effect, would it be too much to ask for a name change to go with that race change? If I am willing to spend money to gain xp as a human fighter/rogue for a future Half Orc ranger, do I really have to play a Human with a Half Orc name for 2 years?
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Goblin Squad Member
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i wouldnt be so sure about that. remember if you slot all fighter skills you get a bonus to fighter stuff, but if you slot fighter and cleric skills you dont get the dedication bonus.
now i agree that having say - one hand weapon skill tree, two handed weapon skill tree, shield skill tree...etc would be great, but i bet the one handed weapon skills you learn is based on which archtype tree you are learning it in.
What qualifies as "fighter skills" don't have to be xclusive to fighter. Especially the low to mid level ones. The specialist should always have the advantage over the multi class at the higher levels and the multi class should have the advantage at the low to mid levels.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I understand that it wouldn't be wasted, you would just be accumulating xp that hasn't been allocated/designated/spent. Remember that you then have to spend the offline xp on skills you gain online.
The next question is really about cross-skilling. Training heavy armor, longsword, shield and cleric spells shouldn't be a waste of time for a future Paladin.
I got one more minor request. Since reputation and the alignment system won't be in effect, would it be too much to ask for a name change to go with that race change? If I am willing to spend money to gain xp as a human fighter/rogue for a future Half Orc ranger, do I really have to play a Human with a Half Orc name for 2 years?
I dont find this acceptable. So while everyone else is learning class specific things im going to be learning on the most basic skills and fall behind the curve.
Not only that but we dont know that weapon/armor/spell training will be its own skill tree. I suspect that it wont be. I wouldnt mind playing a fighter provided that 1.5-2 years later when paladins are released I would have the option to respec into paladin. So make it like this. ONLY skills from the fighter tree give their xp back, then you can spend that XP ONLY on the paladin skill tree.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I dont find this acceptable. So while everyone else is learning class specific things im going to be learning on the most basic skills and fall behind the curve.
Not only that but we dont know that weapon/armor/spell training will be its own skill tree. I suspect that it wont be. I wouldnt mind playing a fighter provided that 1.5-2 years later when paladins are released I would have the option to respec into paladin. So make it like this. ONLY skills from the fighter tree give their xp back, then you can spend that XP ONLY on the paladin skill tree.
The way i understand it, the longsword tree would be the same for all classes that use longsword, but the cleave tree for instance would only be for the melee classes and then the weapon specialization tree is just for fighters. So there would be at least some basic skills to train for a future Paladin.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Moridian
Getting in on the Fun!
Yes, that's right! We're going to be opening up the fulfillment system to people who didn't back the Kickstarter so they can make pledges and choose rewards! After the end of June, we are going to take the system down for a brief period, and when we bring it back up, it will be open to anyone who wishes to support the game.We'll be taking some of the add-ons out of the system and removing many of the reward levels. These are benefits that we will reserve to the original Kickstarter backers, but if you missed out before, you'll still be able to get involved with Early Enrollment, get access to the Emerald Spire superadventure and the miniatures, and help us keep the crowdfunding process rolling forward.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well, I am apparently going to end up being more of a cleric than an alchemist. Good thing I'm such a religious fellow.
I'm interested in learning more about some of the flavor of being able to present your holy symbol. It sounds like it will be visible. Does this mean that there really will be some variety in the behavior of the clerics of different deities or will these differences be purely cosmetic?
I appreciate that they wrote this blog on the release timeline, rather than doing the FAQs. I think that was a good decision.
I wonder: do you Goblinworks folks plan for the system designers to be the same people as the content designers? As the system programmers? I'm a little surprised at the "systems first, then content" plan: I thought you usually have a pipeline, with systems designers giving designs to system programmers and content architects (who in turn give their designs to content artists). And that way, you can work on both, though the content lags behind the systems somewhat.
That is to say, I wouldn't expect it to take much effort to populate some of the world with iron nodes in addition to copper and tin, once you've made the basic harvesting node system. Maybe later on you'll want there to be more differentiation between copper and iron (given iron's fantastically complicated phase diagram in real life), but that could be released as an upgrade to the "placeholder" iron, rather than only having copper and bronze available until iron's design is mature.
And it seems like a lot of Pathfinder's features are on the border between system and content. For instance, is any given type of player contract a system or content?
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Goblin Squad Member
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What caught my my eye was the talk of animation. Animations have to be rich, deep, meaningful and diverse to keep me interested. Would a basic chest height slash hit a wolf? Could there be different animations for a same attack if the target was a humanoid, flying creature or a quadruped? Some AAA mmos still have poor character animations in my opinion... I'm looking at ESO videos and I'm not really that impressed with those character animations. One of the better ones when it comes to animations in my opinion is GW2.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm some what concerned that my DT will be laying dormant, just collecting skill points, and waiting for Monks to be introduced.
I do have an alternative plan to just skill up in generic, core skills and gathering - crafting skills, while I wait.
My Bandit. "Main" character will go with the Fighter / Rogue trees, as well as the core.
My other concern is that of the 22 months of game time I have already pledged to, almost all if it will be spent during the EE. This too encourages just banking the skill points, rather than spending them on a character in a skeletal game system / world.
This looks great! Now I just need to know how to get into early enrollment as a post-Kickstarter potential-backer :-)
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Goblin Squad Member
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I have updated the Unofficial PFO Map to show a hypothetical EE Opening area.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Great blog, but as always more information leads to new questions:
There are several assumptions made in many of the above posts regarding skills and archetypes. We need clarifications (within 12 months) on how skill trees and archetypes are connected, and how the EE period will deal with it.
ie. If I want to play a ranger, could/should I:
a) roll any class and demand a respec when ranger is released?
b) start playing with my twin/alt and leave my main with all xp unspent?
c) start building a ranger the best I can using rogue and fighter skills?
c1) ..and expect that they will count as (or be converted to) basic ranger training?
c2) ..and expect to start over (AD&D dual-class), but at least my higher stats will allow me to skip some skills
A different way of posing the question is: Will the "basic 4" archetypes hit the level caps before the later added ones?
Back to skills and abilities: Can we assume that many abilities will "belong to" more than one archetype? Will there be rigid 'skill trees' or will the stat requirements (and finding trainers) be the main prerequisite?
One aspect is whether a Ftr/Cle becoming a paladin needs to start from scratch. Another aspect is a whether a rogue will be penalized for slotting fighter skills if he trains dagger weapon specialization.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I really don't understand how GW can be planning on entering Open Enrollment without the bare minimum of all Core Races; Core Class Skill Trees; and the core game play elements (Combat PVE & PVP; Settlement Interactions (Construction, Warfare and Destruction - Capture; and a Gathering / Crafting system.
From what the Dev Blog says, the first two: Core Races and Classes, will not be in place. Which leaves me skeptical that the third will be in place.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Please allow us to do this. I have no interest in any of the four classes that are planned for EE. More so I dont want to waste my twin on one i wont play.For me the Paladin, ranger, druid and the most interesting.
OR perhaps a comprimise. As you are thinking about doing with races (allowing a single race change) would you consider allowing a SINGLE archtype change or respec for those of us who want to play but dont want to play one of those four?
I understand that it wouldn't be wasted, you would just be accumulating xp that hasn't been allocated/designated/spent. Remember that you then have to spend the offline xp on skills you gain online.
The next question is really about cross-skilling. Training heavy armor, longsword, shield and cleric spells shouldn't be a waste of time for a future Paladin.
I got one more minor request. Since reputation and the alignment system won't be in effect, would it be too much to ask for a name change to go with that race change? If I am willing to spend money to gain xp as a human fighter/rogue for a future Half Orc ranger, do I really have to play a Human with a Half Orc name for 2 years?
But what about me? I want to be a Sorcerer (which I'm assuming will be functionally different from a Wizard) and my twin to be an Aristocrat.
If GW is doing Sorcs right, they won't have the same magic skills as a Wizard (otherwise why make them different?), and I'll be severely gimping myself if I don't use all my training time until the Sorc skills and feats show up. The Aristocrat I could probably fake well enough with a bunch of social skills and maybe a weapon.
But what about Druids? They aren't really covered by any of the 4 core archetypes, what are they going to do?
I think one free re-spec is more than reasonable. I also think that re-specing should be a cash-shop item.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Bludd
About 15 hexes will be sites for eventual player settlements (the systems for claiming, building, and administering these settlements will be introduced later in the Early Enrollment period)
With 3 races, 4 archetypes and the basics of a skill trill will be in place. It depends how granular the skill tree is: Expect it to become very. I mean obviously fighter will be useful with sword sooner for eg. And Idk with Cleric: Using water "look a pond = get me some holy healing water?" I think Random above asks this question quite well above. ;)
I was wondering if the archetypes actually refer to Killer (f), Achiever (w), Explorer (r) & Socialiser (c)?
=
Instead, we had to operate from the perspective of how few players we could serve and over what period of time.[...]
Remember, that's a game that we plan to bring just a few thousand people into, with a very small number of additional players added every month. Yes, it will be small, sparse, and have little "content" in the traditional MMO sense, but it will also have a tiny player population.
This is just awesome imo. The quality of the people on the forums makes me think the interactions online will be immensely fun even with less content. That said I will enjoy crossing my blades with a few here. :D
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Goblin Squad Member
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Have they opened up the fulfillment system yet? Because I'd love to get into this action, but have no idea where to look. All the threads I found on the subject was horribly out of date and seeing as it was mentioned in last weeks update, I thought it wouldn't hurt to check.
@Moridian
Are you a backer?If not you'll need to wait for a while,
Currently only Backers have the access to fulfillment system.
If you are a backer, Send an E-mail to customer.service@paizo.com.
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Goblin Squad Member
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...if you slot fighter and cleric skills you dont get the dedication bonus.
Remember that the dedication bonus is the two-and-a-half-years-down-the-road topper of the "fighter tree", so it won't be of immediate concern.
...the one handed weapon skills you learn is based on which archtype tree you are learning it in.
I'd have to dig for the reference, but it's felt to me as if your archetype is based on what skills you have slotted, and that learning skills is an independent process. That'd be a great way to give folks incentive to spread out and learn bits of several things.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think one free re-spec is more than reasonable. I also think that re-specing should be a cash-shop item.
I've not yet figured out what purpose re-specs would serve. Any skill you learn will be useful in some way, so why would they give us a mechanism to get rid of them?
This is another arena where it feels they can adopt the EVE model: no re-specs ever, clean and simple, minimum viable product.