I decided to pick up Ultimate Campaign a few days ago, as it seemed appropriate; my GM was asking for us to give a backstory for our character and details on what they are like as a person.
So I read through Ultimate Campaign, started a word document and started writing up details about Circumstance of Birth, Family, Region, Social Rank and Education... Before I knew it, I had written a few pages and I had hardly even gotten into who my character was as a person, just stuff that had happened around him or to him.
What do you think are some solid policies for your character's background and personality? I don't want to be the guy that shoves a 10 page unreadable novel to my GM and expect her to absorb all of that.
Also, do you have two separate documents for your background; the one you hand to your GM and the document containing every single detail about your character? That's something I had considered; then I can reference the complete document if my GM has a particular detail she's interested in.
*random sidenote* Generally, I'm a dirty min/max-er who first comes up with a powerful concept and then builds the character around that. But there's only so much of that to do, so I figure I may as well branch out and actually come up with a reasonably compelling story and character to accompany my min/max'd shenanigans!
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Tobiah Panshin writes about this in a free booklet and I think his ideas are worth considering.
Very short summary: 2 pages is the ideal size.
A background should definitely contain information about where the PC is fearing/hoping/trying to go in the future. What does he want to accomplish? This is crucial information to GMs trying to bait plot hooks, and helps ensure that adventure pitches don't fall flat because they don't interest the PC at all.
As a player, I like to give my character a detailed backstory. I like a great detail to my characters so that I can use it if the situation arises, and to "explain" the character's abilities, skills, and feats.
As a DM, One page is enough, sometimes just a few sentences. We play APs as a regular group, so the assumption is that we're all right-time/right-place kind of characters, though I do use any details given to modify plot hooks, which has worked well in the past.
I think that what you hand in to the DM should provide the basic story your character is using, plus some things in the past that have influenced them, good or ill, especially any unresolved matters or tensions.
I doubt anyone wants a genealogical history of my Paladin, but I will mention that Sir Smartypants has a copy of it in his squire's backpack, should anyone doubt his lineage. (And I'd probably actually write that out, knowing it'll never see the light of day.)
@ The Chort, How did you find Ultimate Campaign overall?
I'll preface this by saying that I have a bias for the short and sweet; others' preferences may vary.
What do you think are some solid policies for your character's background and personality? I don't want to be the guy that shoves a 10 page unreadable novel to my GM and expect her to absorb all of that.
Somewhere between a half-page and a page is my sweet spot for backstories, at least as far as the public, written component goes. There will typically be some more that lives in my head, or in conversations between me and the GM, rather than on the page, and this part will get expanded upon (and perhaps revealed) over the course of play, and there will be some stuff that lives in list or notes form rather than in prose (such as family names and the dates of significant events).
Also, do you have two separate documents for your background; the one you hand to your GM and the document containing every single detail about your character? That's something I had considered; then I can reference the complete document if my GM has a particular detail she's interested in.
I think it is probably wise not to expect your fellow players (GM included) to care too much about the minutiae and trivia of your backstory, yeah. That said, I typically don't care too much about them myself; a broad framework backstory that is open to additions and improvisations is more my style.
If you are producing weighty tomes of backstories, though, then yes, I think a highlights reel would be a good idea.
I would suggest that you don't hit your GM with more than a couple double spaced pages (if that; and certainly not your fellow players). The main purpose of a backstory for the GM is to give the GM some idea of what your character will be interested in (and some ready made plot hooks to mine), but he probably doesn't need more than a couple pages will provide for any given campaign, and if he does, a good GM is perfectly capable of working with you to put some more flesh on the bones.
The other purpose of a backstory is to help you get into character. For that purpose, write as much as you please. But IMO it is important to remember that a backstory is for getting a sense of who the character is, not for logging everything he or she has ever done.
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If I'm GMing, I don't want more than a paragraph from my players. 100 words is plenty, I want to play the story, not read a story.
(Edit: this is if they want to provide a backstory - I almost always won't request one unless I'm making an extremely tailor-made campaign)
As a player, I'll try keep it to a couple of sentences, unless the GM has specific criteria, in which case I'll keep it to a sentence per criteria. If there's more than about 6 or so criteria, I'll question whether I want to play in that game.
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I don't want my players writing any backstory out. I'm a very picky critic--every background I've ever read has been awful. I want them, instead, to have a conversation with me--in person, e-mail, whatever--about their background, and then I can work it in, make sure it works, and I don't have to read stilted prose, just ideas that will enhance the game.
I don't want my players writing any backstory out. I'm a very picky critic--every background I've ever read has been awful. I want them, instead, to have a conversation with me--in person, e-mail, whatever--about their background, and then I can work it in, make sure it works, and I don't have to read stilted prose, just ideas that will enhance the game.
"Every" backstory? Really? I don't expect players to be Faulkner. I expect them to tell me how their character has arrived in the narrative. But you do agree that background serves some purpose, right? I agree that working with players on their backstory is worthwhile, in any medium.
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I don't want my players writing any backstory out. I'm a very picky critic--every background I've ever read has been awful. I want them, instead, to have a conversation with me--in person, e-mail, whatever--about their background, and then I can work it in, make sure it works, and I don't have to read stilted prose, just ideas that will enhance the game.
Ha! Yeah, I know what you mean. Personally a backstory that makes me cringe is far worse than none at all. (And I've been given ones so bad that I want to frame them).
Personally I go very bare bones on backstory, a I like to go in knowing what sort of archetype I want to play and how my character should turn out.
I want to play the story, not read a story.
I'd rather have somebody with an open ended, ambiguous backstory that I can pepper with old acquaintances and nuggets of wisdom as the game progresses. Given my current trend of playing the demihuman races, I just use this as a framework.
My bitter jaded elf is ashamed for deserting the Lantern Bearers. My grubby greedy dwarf wants to pay a lavish dowry to buy his bride. My mad, bleached gnome thinks he can buy back his youth with stolen trinkets. All of these characters have lived for a century, but I'm deliberately vague on their pasts, because it doesnt matter. They've lived a long time, travelled, have lots of old acquaintances and probably a fair bit of wisdom to share. But I'd rather leave it ambiguous and come up with that in-game, so I like to stick with what's important.
As for human PCs, you're not nearly a long lived. You've probably had time to learn the tools of your trade and depending on your level had some success at it. My human knight is on a quest to prove himself after a lesser noble is caught letting him win a tourney match and shatters his confidence.
There's a lot left unsaid in these back-stories, but they're filled with potential to expand apon. When I DO write a back-story around the two or three page mark, I tend to just fill it with stories my PC might share with the others rather than dead parents, prophesies and compelling revenge plots. Valeros, Alain, Merisiel... so many of the iconics have little in the way of backstory. Only enough to say "this is who I am". I think the "meet the iconics" post are as good an example as any for writing up a PC, and they're more or less the framework I use.
tl;dr Less is more
Don't fret too much about it
Write as much as you can have fun with
There's a lot of good info in here and I'm inclined to agree; all the minutia of every event in your life is not a big deal. Maybe highlight some major events, but more importantly a blurb about what your character is like; values, goals and fears.
...but I guess I felt some pressure to actually fill in some of the details due to the nature of our campaign; my GM wanted to make a campaign based on the anime Slayers, and I chose to be a wizard; grandson of the illustrious wizard Shazard, one of the "Five Great Sages of the Present Age." The anime leaves it's history much like many of the people in this forum leave their history: ambiguous. So it seemed like a good idea to iron out some details so my GM could use it when we visit my hometown of Sairaag someday.
...it's more like I'm submitting a version of what happened and seeing what she thinks. She might say "Yeah, that works" or "That's not what I had in mind..." and then I change my backstory to adapt. Cooperative storytelling, if you will.
I feel the depth of the background should be one paragraph to one page, depending on level started and GM desire. For example, I have a new character coming into a campaign at level 10. so I felt this required more detail than a first level character. I like to add a few threads/characters that the DM can use for adventure seeds as they chose. If they use them, great. If not, they are still there to mine.
Example (spoilered for campaign);
Sebastion (Bast) Mal’thais was born in Riverspire in the heart of Kyonin to a young elven hunter and his paramour, an aasimar druid. Soon after his birth, his mother stole away with him to the north and the Realm of the Mammoth Lords. He was raised in druidic tradition hermited away in a small hutted cave near Icestair by his celestial mother. Brought up so near the Irrisian Border, and the threat of the winter witches a constant threat he was guided in defense against the unnatural arts. She gifted him the rare talent to call a celestial elemental to bond and be his companion. Her unusual training methods drew him away from flora and fauna and tied him closely to the elements. Though instead of a soft breeze, he became a storm. Thunderous and hard as the realm in which he was raised. His elven blood ran hot in his veins, and his mother feared the wanderlust she saw in her child. Her attempts to curtail his anxious spirit were cut short when she was killed by creatures from the world wound while he was communing with his shadow in the hot springs near Tolguth. He left the north soon after her death. To seek a way to avenge her.
Overhearing some Ulfen Traders speaking of the demons that populated Ustalav, he decided to head there in his quest to seek a means to combat the denizens of the world wound. With only a frost sling, a dagger, and his faithful shadow Quothe he was ill prepared for what he met in cities of men such as these. Poor and desperate to find what he sought, he spent a year thieving to survive in Caliphas with frequent trips across the Avalon Bay into Illmarsh to fence his ill gotten goods. He met an old wizardly bounty hunter in Illmarsh at the beginning of his second year in Ustalav named Eloruh, and they became fast friends and accomplices. Between himself, his shadow, and Eloruh… Bast was able to build a small nest egg and a collection of various tools and knickknacks. He began to gain skill in tracking, and some more roguish abilities during this time. It was during his second year that he acquired, Kaysera, his exceptional Black Mithral Scythe. Stolen from the carriage of some Pharasmin inquisitor. Soon after, with a price on his head, Eloruh convinced Bast to head to Kyonin to seek out his past.
In Kyonin, Bast took up with a small druid circle and began to once again advance in the path of his lost mother. These Kyonin Druids were intrigued by this unique form of power and faith taught to Bast. And he garnered the attention of some minor noble spellcasters. Throughout his time in Kyonin he found out very little about his father and nothing about his past. But he became a bit of a popular oddity amongst the nobles. After a few years he took the gifts and favors they bestowed upon him and sought out a great smithy to produce a suit of armor that would honor his heritage, protect him during his quests, and not interfere with his cause and his druidic beliefs. The smithy created for him a miraculous chainmail made of dragonhide. Around this time he received a message from Eloruh. Eloruh himself had fled Ustalav shortly after Bast, but he headed west to Lastwall where he earned his keep as a scout. It seemed a horde of unnatural creatures had been assaulting the settlements, and with many and more knights errant heading to the world wound they were calling out for reinforcements to handle the threat. Distraught he had not found the answers he sought, but joyed to see his old friend again, he set out for The Lastwall settlement of Hallein Town.
Reunited once again, Bast, his shadow, and Eloruh seemed unstoppable. Together they lead many sorties and halted the advancement of a medium sized undead horde. Lauded by the people of Hallein and other settlements in Lastwall. They were inducted into the roaming order of Galadonian Knighthood. Bast then invited Eloruh back to Kyonin for a much needed respite. It was then that he was summoned by a great power to head to the gangster town of Riddleport were his destiny, and perhaps his past, awaits….
I don't write paragraphs. I mostly have bullet points which are easier to read and succinct.
@ The Chort, How did you find Ultimate Campaign overall?
I wasn't exactly sure on getting this book, but I thought, what the heck, it's only $10 for the pdf, and I could probably use some help on making a backstory and character that isn't laughably bad.
I'm glad I picked it up, I haven't nearly read through the whole thing, but there's a lot of goodies in here. There's a wealth of ideas on how to brainstorm a backstory. The book asks you question after question that you can ponder in respect to your character. And there are tables to generate backstories; different tables for every class! If I were completely lazy, I'd just roll it and run with it; all of them would make for workable and interesting characters. I just read all of the wizard backgrounds to get me thinking.
There's even something for my dirty min/max-er side! I love the Drawbacks as opposed to Flaws from 3.5. The Drawbacks are so much more flavorful than "You have a -2 penalty on attack rolls" or whatever, like the Hedonistic drawback.
Whenever you spend a day without gaining reward or
treasure (at least 10 or more gold pieces) or spending
an hour on entertainment or pleasure, attempt a DC
20 Fortitude save at the end of that day. If you fail, you
begin the next day fatigued. This fatigue lasts 4 hours,
or until you receive a reward or sufficient entertainment
or pleasure.
I thought it was hilarious and absolutely fantastic as way to define who your character is. Also, getting a third trait is much less busted than bonus feats, as traits are weaker and don't enable feat trees and so on.
The story feats are fun too; feats that require a certain deed or trait as a prerequisite and are decent in their own right, but they unlock another power when you complete the goal of the story feat.
...and that's Chapter 1, Character Background. There's still 3 more chapter that I've barely even looked at; Ch. 2 Downtime, Ch. 3 Campaign Systems, and Ch. 4 Kingdoms and War.
I REALLY look forward to delving deeper into this book.
Somewhere between a half-page and a page is my sweet spot for backstories, at least as far as the public, written component goes.
Bingo!
Don't burden your GM, your fellow players, or (although it's harder) yourself with too much history. You're preparing to play a game that will happen in the future. The most important things you can include in your character write-up are those that influence the story you are about to participate in: goals, motivations, biases, preferences, etc.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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IT also depends on how much detail everyone wants.
As an example, since all I'm playing right now is PFS, I can sum up most of my characters in a sentence or two.
Do I have more than that for my characters? Yes. And if the GM wants more I can give it to them. I had a WoD character that I made an entire magical paridigm for her hedge magic. So I'll keep it simple, and elaborate more than asked.
I find it really depends on the GM and how much he tailors the campain to the backstories he gets. Some GMs will more or less ignore your backstory, possibly adding in a little extra flavor or motivation at certain plot points but in general going with whatever adventure they had planned. Others will take your backstories and build the world around them. I write paragraph backstories with basic motivation for the first group, and 1-3 page long backstories for the second. Backstories aren't necessarily written in character, though sometimes they are. My last one was written from the perspective of someone telling a story about himself (he is a storytelling bard).
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Tobiah Panshin writes about this in a free booklet and I think his ideas are worth considering.
Very short summary: 2 pages is the ideal size.
A background should definitely contain information about where the PC is fearing/hoping/trying to go in the future. What does he want to accomplish? This is crucial information to GMs trying to bait plot hooks, and helps ensure that adventure pitches don't fall flat because they don't interest the PC at all.
Could not have said it better myself, especially the part about keeping the players engaged.
The more the players give me, the more the world revolves around them.
I've got the guy you I have to drag any motivation out of. He's hulk-smash. I throw up monsters, he kills them. Done.
I've got the guy who read my entire world backstory, not just the highlights, and is now trying to (apparently) own it through intrigue and convoluted planning.
I've got a couple other players somewhere in-between.
As a GM, I have more fun writing for the second guy, but I'll try to work with both styles so they both get something out of the game. The first guy is going to be a means to the other players' ends. The entirety of his characterization (exaggerating slightly) is "I'm a hero that fights evil."
Ok. I can work with that, but it means you're often going to be along for the ride with the players who actually gave me motivations, friends, allies, enemies, families, histories, and goals to hang plot hooks on.
Sure, there's the main plotlines unfolding beyond the characters, but this is a sandbox game and the PCs dip in and out of world events as they want to while pursuing personal goals, which the group roleplayer tends to shape.
What do you think are some solid policies for your character's background and personality? I don't want to be the guy that shoves a 10 page unreadable novel to my GM and expect her to absorb all of that.
99% of the time I'm the DM, so I never have any character bios (or, better said, I have them, but no one to send them to!). So the policy I have for players and the bios goes as follows:
1.- Everyone must write a half-page document detailing the general idea about their characters. I give them a basic outlook of the setting and type of campaign, and they make their stories from there.
2.- We gather up for a pre-campaign session where every player must create a connection between his PC and at least 2 other PCs. The connections can range from being family members to having an old debt to pay. During this session everyone also gets the opportunity to better discuss their characters with the DM in order to chisel it and fit it properly in the story.
3.- Everyone must then send an, at the longest, 2-page background story. I also ask them to send a single-page document pinpointing fundamental story hooks they would like to see developed.
Works pretty good for us, avoiding too-log stories filled with inconsequential material while at the same time giving everyone the option to flesh the stuff properly. Also gives me a good basis with which to weave their personal stories into the main plot.
i actually have alot of fun creating characters and backgrounds, however as i mostly play Pathfinder Society Official play introductions and backgrounds are generally for you alone, other than to say "hi, im *such and such* and im a *such and such* of *so and so (if applicable)* but im getting alot more into the roleplay side of things and trying to get more of my friends and/or random people i play with to enjoy that side of things too. my newest character is a prodigy of my high level character (his daughter), and i absolutely love her background/introduction that i ACTUALLY say when i sit down at tables. (see spoiler)
there are no real spoilers, just a little long.
i usually make sure to sit so that the gm doesn't ask me to give my background first when i get a chance ill randomly (sometimes in the middle of the gm asking for the next person, but i never interrupt the other pc's) i say "hmm? oh me? you want to hear about me? well i'm Selena, daughter of Serana Silvertounge, but you probably dont know her. my daddy though, hes another matter, hes REALLY famous in the society, i think he worked for the Silver Crusade, but i decided to join the Grand Lodge instead, yeah hes like a venture captain or something i dunno but anyway hes pretty famous. oh right im a bard, or at least thats what my papa says, he also says im musetouched or something, i just know that when i sing and talk people feel happy or something.
its pretty funny when i do it because most other people are just like "im john and im a level (x) ________"
edit: thats just what i SAY, i also tell the gm if he wants more info about my character or how she reacts to things so he can plan around me possibly slowing things down in order to ensure the other pc's aren't just sitting there bored while i roll my 85 billion diplomacy and breeze through the role-playing portions of the scenarios.
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The title of this thread seems to be a bit of a Strawman Argument; it sets one's expectations towards thinking that one extreme is better than the other. (That is, very little background to a large, elaborate one).
As a GM who has had player backgrounds of all sizes, and as a player who has written both giant backgrounds and several paragraphs long backgrounds, neither is any better than the other. Whatever among of information you want to convey to your GM is appropriate for you to do so. I will say that smaller backgrounds tend to foster more liberal interpretations from the GM while longer ones tend to get more details ignored. For example, you may write all about your thirty-two cousins in your background, but the chances of the GM using any one of them over more immediate (or interesting) family members is microscopic.
Here's a write up I made of a character of mine that I reforged in the Background Generator. In Microsoft Word, double Columns, its about a page and a half.
Name: Kyr’shin Yilenzo
Race: Kitsune
Current Age: 19
Birthday (Adoption): 8/1
Height: 5’ 11”
Weight: 175 lbs.
Hair/Fur: Red-Orange
Eyes: Brilliant Blue
Code
Humanity and goodness are not measured by appearances. Kindness is the greatest magic and words have the power to change the world. Everyone has the potential for goodness. Avoid senseless bloodshed with sincere words when possible, but never compromise the safety and happiness of others simply to avoid conflict. Obey the law when possible, but do not limit yourself to its doctrines because your enemies will not.
Family
Duke Irja’won Yilenzo (Adoptive Father): The youngest son of a powerful noble, Irja’won was granted his title by his father and mother in hopes that it would attract him a wife. When Irja’won showed little interest in the idea, he was married to the traveling Diplomat, Shiji’murel. Irja’won is considered somewhat stiff for a mist elf because he only has a single extra-marital affair every year or so. Irja’won is a samurai with the sword saint archetype.
Duchess Shiji’murel Yilenzo (Adoptive Mother): Once a great mist elven diplomat who travelled the world over, Duchess Shiji’murel settled down in the mist elven capitol when her father married her to a higher-ranking noble, Duke Irja’won. Shiji’murel was the one who brought Kyr’shin home to her husband. Shiji’murel is a rogue with the rake archetype.
Liluss Yilenzo (Adoptive Brother, 130 years): Kyr’shin’s eldest adoptive brother was never home during Kyr’shin’s formative years; Kyr’shin has only heard stories of his oldest ‘brother,’ but has has very little contact with him. Liluss wrote often to his father and mothers, and from what Kyr’shin has seen of his letters, he has his mother’s wanderlust and his father’s detachment. Liluss is a druid with the urban druid archetype.
Varidil Yilenzo (Adoptive Brother, 31 years): The younger of Kyr’shin’s “older” brothers, Varidil was a constant companion and playmate of Kyr’shin until Kyr’shin quickly outgrew him. Although Vary older now, Kyr’shin has a somewhat estranged relationship with Vary because he is a constant reminder that Kyr’shin isn’t a flesh and blood member of the Yilenzo clan; to Kyr’shin, Vari has scarcely aged a day from their boyhoods while he is now an adult, and will likely pass away before Vari is considered an adult by his own people.
Faun Yilenzo (Adoptive Sister, 14 years): Faun is Kyr’shin’s younger sister and was born when he was five years old. At the time, Kyr’shin bragged and boasted about having a little sister as a playmate, as he and Vari were still roughly the same age biologically. Like Vari, Kyr’shin watched himself grow older while his adoptive siblings stayed virtually the same.
Childhood
The exact specifics of Kyr’shin’s early life are sketchy at best; all that he is sure of is that his adoptive mother, Shiji’murel, purchased him from an Altha Majere ship captain when he was a toddler. Kyr’shin’s mother didn’t bother asking any specifics, such as why the captain had Kyr’shin or where he came from, much to an older Kyr’shin’s annoyance. Although he was given the family name, Kyr’shin’s already possessed his given name when Shiji’murel brought him home. Although Kyr’shin wouldn’t realize anything peculiar about it, Kyr’shin was a particularly adapt shapeshifter, able to transform between his true self and his human appearance quicker than most and mastered the art of maintaining his form before his fourth birthday.
From a young age, the Duke and Duchess used Kyr’shin as a conversation starter during social gatherings. Because of the exoticness of his race, they were content with him tramping about when he was young, but as he grew older the Duchess began spending exuberant amounts of gold in order to train Kyr’shin in a wide variety of odd athletic skills, including discus tossing and catching and gymnastics. When he was eight years old, Kyr’shin was given to a mist elven samurai for training. A member of the Order of the Dragon, Kyr’shin excelled at wielding the katana and the Duchess quickly had a miniature suit of armor commissioned for him to attend parties in.
Kyr’shin’s greatest upset happened when he was ten years old; his older brother, Liluss Yilenzo, whom he had never met, returned to the Land of Mists posthumously with a band of adventurers he had been traveling with. The heroes had hoped to use the Yilenzo family’s influences to afford a resurrection for their companion, which the Duke and Duchess happily agreed to. Young Kyr’shin watched a local cleric return a dead man to life that day, and from then on Kyr’shin was convinced that most problems could simply be cast away via spellcasting.
Adolescence
When Kyr’shin turned 13, his samurai instructor abandoned his training, frustrated at the speed at which his pupil was physically growing. He claimed that his time was not well spent because Kyr’shin was obviously shortly-lived. Kyr’shin spent the next six years training himself alone while seeing to his father’s errands. One such errand had young Kyr’shin spending most of his time with a young, flighty mist elven minstrel named Daezindrae, the son of a lesser noble house. Daezeindrae came from a long line of mist elven diplomats, and after the minstrel helped talk Kyr’shin out of a messy conflict with some traveling humans, Kyr’shin begged his new friend to teach him everything he knew about wordplay. A retired diplomat herself, the Duchess was thrilled with this development and encouraged the development of Kyr’shin’s diplomatic skills. Although not quite as good as true mist elves, Kyr’shin’s reputation as a diplomat spread quickly.
Although Kyr’shin’s adoptive parents never hid the fact that he was adopted from him, up until he was an adolescent he always thought of himself as their true son and would inherent a title from them when he came of age. At the age of 16, Kyr’shin’s self-image was described when Irja’won explained as gently as he could that Kyr’shin couldn’t inherit these things because by elven law one wasn’t an adult until he was elven decades old, and Kyr’shin would probably have died from old age by then. Swallowed in his doubts and remorse, Kyr’shin did the only thing he could think of; visit Daezeindrae, who informed the young man that he desperately needed to get laid.
One skill that Kyr’shin was as proficient in as any mist elf was courting. Kyr’shin has always humans to elves as partners and he has had several relationships of note with the daughters of various human ambassadors; aided by Daezeindrae, his first major fling was with the daughter of a human ambassador, which ended several weeks later when Kyr’shin was caught a white lie. He had claimed that he was the bastard son of his father, and therefore nobility. Kyr’shin’s second relationship lasted much longer; he talked his way into his ex-girlfriend’s best friend, an adventurer, sixty minutes after his previous relationship ended in order to spite her. During his 12-month relationship with this young lady, Kyr’shin never revealed his true form to her out of fear of how she would respond. Daezeindrae convinced him otherwise, and on the night of their anniversary Kyr’shin showed himself to his love. And she ended the relationship with him in disgust. Following this Kyr’shin had several short relationships, but he never allowed himself the luxury of a long-term relationship with another.
Adulthood
As an adult, Kyr’shin was sent on more minor missions on behalf of his father, the Duke. Kyr’shin was officially inducted as Irja’won’s only samurai as a political stunt; Kyr’shin is well aware of this, but it is a title he bears proudly none the less. At 19 years of age, Kyr’shin convinced his father to send him abroad to a dwarven sword master in order to learn the craft of swordsmithing. It was there he met Dyme and the two became fast friends. When Kyr’shin’s father wrote to him, requesting that he sail south to check a business venture, Kyr’shin happily complied, more than willing to partake his first (and only) mission on behalf of the Duke.
Personality
Kyr’shin has a very laid back personality on account of living with the mist elves for his entire life. He is very boastful of his accomplishments because of his family; despite carrying the Yilenzo name, Kyr’shin is aware that none of their prestige is his own and decided long ago to leave behind a legacy of grandeur. As an adopted orphan, Kyr’shin values family over everything else and is hard-pressed to turn his cheek towards family problems. Kyr’shin thinks highly of Dyme and because of his somewhat sheltered life, he projects much of his relationship with Daezeindrae onto Dyme, despite the former still living in the Land of the Mists.
Kyr’shin can be remarkably headstrong and has a deep appreciation for the cultures of others thanks to his mist elven parents; that said, Kyr’shin does not consider the elven culture his own, no matter how much it has impacted his world view. Because his samurai training was never finished in the Land of the Mists, Kyr’shin’s only true service is to himself and his family; Kyr’shin proudly boasts of his own skills and his family’s prestige.
As you can see, I limited myself to roughly one paragraph per major family member and three paragraphs to each of the subheadings. Writing backstories is a very useful writing experience for this reason because it helps to teach you to limit your information to only the most important details.
Character backstories are like a resume. To much resume = skipped and in the garbage (I've read lots of bad resumes in my time haha). Cut the chaff, stick w/the meat.
1/2 to 1 page MAX for a character. Remember, characters are at the start of their careers in most games. Follow the KISS strategy. (Keep it simple stupid). Remember that the DMs have to remember your story, everyone elses story AND the story they want to tell.
I always go with the following:
First I ask the DM for a rough outline of the game I'll be playing so I can ensure that I will create a compatible character with the group and story. Then I come up with an enemy from the past that counts as a minor problem in the backstory (the DM can use the baddie later and make it more powerful if he/she so chooses). Then a buddy I knew from the past that I'd like the OTHER players to run into for some fun RP. Then 2-3 goals I want to accomplish during the course of the campaign. The first one is to help the DM and I integrate the character into the group. This is just why I'm where I am and what posses me to join up with strangers to adventure together. Then a personal goal I think I could accomplish in the near future with my friendly neighborhood group mates and my final goal being a long term one that would make me super happy with how my character turned out if it could be worked into the game. Finally a short history of my character. I don't go into super detail in the history, but I put the most important things in there.
If you put to many iron clad details in, you're going to end up correcting the DM on your story and not having as much fun. I'd rather the DM know that I had a sister and we didn't get along and he/she come up with her personality on the fly than have to correct him/her 2-3 times when interacting with my characters sister. Remember - the DM has to integrate what you want into the campaigns story. Help him or her do this.
Put that into 1/2 to 1 page.
For cons or society play, 2 sentences to intro. Anything else gets explained via role play at the table.
The title of this thread seems to be a bit of a Strawman Argument; it sets one's expectations towards thinking that one extreme is better than the other. (That is, very little background to a large, elaborate one).
You can call my title a Strawman Argument, but I hope you got past it actually read my post? It's not easy to synthesize the point of a thread in one line, and I thought wording it as I did would reasonably describe the dilemma I was facing. Apologies if my title didn't meet proper thread-making guidelines. >_<
I'm not trying to argue that long background = horrible background; I just was concerned that I was producing too much content that wasn't necessarily enhancing the game and putting additional strain on my GM. Then I opened up the conversation to hear how everyone has dealt with that issue in their group. And here you are. =3
The more the players give me, the more the world revolves around them.
I've got the guy you I have to drag any motivation out of. He's hulk-smash. I throw up monsters, he kills them. Done.
I've got the guy who read my entire world backstory, not just the highlights, and is now trying to (apparently) own it through intrigue and convoluted planning.
I've got a couple other players somewhere in-between.
As a GM, I have more fun writing for the second guy, but I'll try to work with both styles so they both get something out of the game. The first guy is going to be a means to the other players' ends. The entirety of his characterization (exaggerating slightly) is "I'm a hero that fights evil."
Ok. I can work with that, but it means you're often going to be along for the ride with the players who actually gave me motivations, friends, allies, enemies, families, histories, and goals to hang plot hooks on.
Sure, there's the main plotlines unfolding beyond the characters, but this is a sandbox game and the PCs dip in and out of world events as they want to while pursuing personal goals, which the group roleplayer tends to shape.
I would say this is the situation I'm up against; the campaign that I run as GM, for example, is Rise of the Runelords, where background can be somewhat worked in, but really, the way the adventure plays out is written for you so there's only so much you can do there.
The campaign my friend is running is more of sandbox, with an overarching storyline she has in the back of her mind. She really wants us to get into it and do some cooperative storytelling. Work pieces of your character into the world she's creating.
So I'm comfortable giving my GM a couple pages to read, but still worried I'm producing too much. Right now I'm shaving off anything that isn't an important foundation for my character or relevant NPCs.
I like a decent bit of a background in some cases. Depends on how enamored I am with the concept. Simple is usually better unless you've got something you think is really good up your sleeve.
Sun Xiao (my Monk) I wrote a good bit on, though all the "need to know" is in the "Basic Personality" section. There's a link to it in my profile if anyone wants to read it. Along with the campaign journal. I like to think my writing improved over time.
I once gave a long backstory. It was reaaaalllly long. I wrote a 3-page summary for the DM but then I expanded my long backstory. It's now about 140,000 words and available on Amazon.com.
I usually prefer a single-page point form list with the player giving an oral story of his/her character during the character's introduction to the party.
Much easier for me to remember and organize (and highlight key points).
Personally, I don't like long back stories. At least if the players are starting off at level 1. I feel like a 1st level character is too fresh and new to have much of a back story. And even then, how much can you say about some characters?
If someone turned in the phrase "He wants to impress his retired adventurer father, so he became an adventurer himself." as a backstory, I'd be happy. It wraps up a lot of important bits about the character in very few words.
I guess it just depends on a combination necessity and quality for me.
Take a lesson from engineering. Lab write-ups have an abstract; a description of the purpose and the result. Try doing the same.
You can have your 1-page or 2-page document, but anyone who just wants dessert can read the abstract. People who want more can read the rest.
For the GM, I would challenge you to think like a GM and then make a bullet list of what they will want from an adventure-making perspective. Your motivations to adventure? Potential allies? Potential enemies? Things to reward them with?
I feel like a 1st level character is too fresh and new to have much of a back story.
I tend towards disagreement. A level 1 character probably should not have a massive listing of accomplishments, but that doesn't mean they can't have an involved backstory. What got that character their level of fighter, wizard or whatever could potentially be a tome all its own. And that's before you add in things about their personal life that might have made them who they are.
For me, a short backstory is about two pages. Any longer than that and I will throw together a single page of highlights for my GM in a bullet point format, however.
As a GM. I recommend wrighting as much background as you desire, but give the GM a 1 or 2 page type written background touching the key points. If the GM likes the idea of a 10 + page novel then you can give him the larger version. The longer background is not wasted. Wrighting it has revealed a lot of your characters personality and how they typically react in situations. Such information is invaluable to making a strong, consistant, and well roleplayed character.
One player wrote me a 3 page background and he is going to be rewarded by stories revolving around his background as it gave me ideas that work well in my campaign environment.
The rest I made roll on the Ultimate Campaign charts last night as they provided nothing in the way of background.
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So I read through Ultimate Campaign, started a word document and started writing up details about Circumstance of Birth, Family, Region, Social Rank and Education... Before I knew it, I had written a few pages and I had hardly even gotten into who my character was as a person, just stuff that had happened around him or to him.
I'd recommend just leaping at the specific events that inspire you. Very few of my characters have 'circumstances of birth' that would turn out to be relevant to the character's later life. But with the comic book character John Constantine, whose birth resulted in the death of his twin, his status as a 'born murderer' has serious repercussions on his adult life.
Social rank, education, etc. only matter in so much as they inform the current reality of the character. Are they a snob, because of elite upbringing? Do they have an enormous chip on their shoulder about having grown up on the mean streets, horsewhipped if they didn't get out of the way of the noble brats out for their weekly drunken revels?
I've seen a few character generation sheets that seem like checklists of family members and what sort of building one grew up in, etc. but that sort of stuff might end up having zero to do with the characters personality or characterization, so it might be more productive to just gloss over anything that doesn't leap out as a defining thing, rather than have a backstory filled with irrelevant minutiae.
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Personally I never buy adventure paths, I prefer to make adventures myself. That allows me to customize the adventures and overall setting to the PCs. Saying that I don't mind if a player hands me a 4 to 10 page biography, it's simply more source material, but for those GM's who prefer pre-made adventures or have a particular theme in mind it's not necessary.
However, I'm strictly against the DM as god school of thought that some older guys subscribe to. What harm would there be in a player writing 10 pages plus of background material if he never actually shows that material to the GM, but simply uses it to increase his own verisimilitude increasing his own interest. He dons't have to bog down the other players or the GM with his lengthy background, he could just list some bullet points in a one page handout.
Recently a friend and I where discussing putting the backgrounds as well as down time rules/guidelines to the test by inviting a bunch of storyteller players to a pathfinder game. These are the kind of guys that normally turn their noses up at D&D, it's too combat based and too restrictive. He's betting, and I agree, that a nice set of rules supporting your character personality and non-combat situations such as building businesses, making contacts, and ruling kingdoms will inspire them, changing their opinions. Here's hoping.