so yeah new challenge time. you get one class, but can gestalt two archetypes for that class that normally overlap. armored hulk/titanmauler seems like a fun one. note that this means you could put any base archetype on an alternate class.
If you get both archetypes? Hmmm, I could see doing some kind of versatile character like a detective/Dervish of dawn. Good overall skills and interesting versatility in performances for both combat and out of it... I think that would be a reasonable gestalt.
Of course, a troubling outgrowth of this kind of gestalt would be the dreaded synthesist/ standard summoner. If I understand your meaning about blending archetypes, this fellow would have an eidolon suit and an eidolon companion.
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the magus would be better,
from expirence I know that wizard/fighters are the weakest gestalt that doesn't have overlap, unless you take prestige classes like abjurant champion
hmm and as for the two archetype challenge, monk (four winds or zen archer and quinningog) maybe bard (arcane duelist and sandman)
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as to the two magi above I'd take the top one, but I'd try to pump inelegance a bit more, taking a race that helps it out,
and you are wrong on the no race gives +2 to both int and str, thing
human alternate race trait, gives up bonus feat for another +2 to any one additional feat
if you start that, could you do so on these boards and pm me an invite? that sounds really cool,
if everyone's a gunslinger, then DPS is covered against most everything (a party of gunslinger gestalts, I'm drooling)
if I were to make what I think would be the coolist party combo with the above
party of 4
paladin (holy gun)/gunslinger (gun tank maybe?)
ninja (glory rouge, maybe carnavalist, maybe not, maybe pet trainer)/gunslinger(either Pistolero or mysterious stranger)
alchemist (grenader)/gunslinger (mechanist)
sorcerer, bard or dread (it's a fear based psionic class)/gunslinger (either pistolero or mysterious stranger)
Only reason I didn't suggest synth/mast summoner was that I was unsure of the impact to the synthesists evolutions and the like from the master summoner side.
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just realized pistolero and mysterious stranger overlap,
if everyone's a gunslinger, then DPS is covered against most everything (a party of gunslinger gestalts, I'm drooling)
if I were to make what I think would be the coolist party combo with the above
party of 4
paladin (holy gun)/gunslinger (gun tank maybe?) focus dex followed by cha followed by con and wis lowest stat: int
ninja (glory rouge, maybe carnavalist, maybe not, maybe pet trainer)/gunslinger(either Pistolero or mysterious stranger) focus dex followed by cha followed by int lowest stat con or str
alchemist (grenader)/gunslinger (mechanist) focus int followed by dex followed by con (lowest stat cha and wis)
sorcerer, bard or dread (it's a fear based psionic class)/gunslinger ([mysterious stranger, maybe also pistlero) cha followed by dex, maybe pump con after that
bigdaddy- for the wildwest campaign ideas that i think would be cool:
oath of vengeance paladin/mysterious stranger (great Cha synergy)
preacher inquisitor/guntank (great Wis synergy)
weaponmaster 3|sohei/pisolero (can flurry with a pistol starting at 9th)
also, any Wis based full caster will end up with good stat synergy, all good saves, d10 HD, full BAB, etc.- a cleric with the right god, an empyreal sorcerer, or a druid could work (druid doesn't seem thematic if you think of the european origin, but if you think of him more like a native american shaman it fits much better).
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dang it,
double dang it
I could show you how, it's not hard
I've not done one myself, but it's not hard, I just don't have time to DM in any setting, are you anywhere near the Chattanooga/Cleveland area?
this looks like such an awesome thing and I've not gotten my fix of gestalt in a while (huh, gestalt wouldn't be a bad drug name, the tagline could be,"makes you feel like there's two of you" hmm needs work,)
hmm, so stuff happened while i was away from my computer. witches are wis based in my home games, so witch/gunslinger is a bit more MAD but still viable.
also scarred witch doctor/winter witch going for the winter witch prc
Sorry the part where i typed that witches are wisdom based in my home games didnt stick when i posted.
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ok I'm going to turn various characters into level 20 gestalts first off the webcomic order of the stick
Elan
Bard 20/sorscerer (maestro) or wizard (enchantment or illusion) 10/dashing sordsman (in universe PrC, call it a suped up duelist if it makes you feel better)
V
Wizard 10 (evoker)/ cleric 10/psion 10/ mystic theurge 10
Durkton
cleric 20/paladin 20
Haley
Rouge 20/ranger 20
Roy... hmm roy is tricky as is he's a strait fighter (and proud of it) but he has a higher total mental stats than any of the casters in the party, and his father wanted him to be a wizard, he's LG and sympathizes with the paladins, hmm
fighter 20/paladin 5/wizard (illusionist) 5/eldritch knight 10
belkar
also tricky, ranger (two weapon fighter) is is his primary class and he has at least 3 levels of barbarian, but he is shown to have considered bard as an option (for the purpose of demoralization) and his intimidate check is through the roof, so he has a more than decent cha, though he has a wisdom of 12 or less,
Ranger 20/ either barbarian 20 or barbarian 9 oracle 1 rage prophet 10 or ranger 20 barbarian 10 bard 10
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as an extra note roy alternativly could be depicted as a fighter 20/magus 20, I don't know,
next one
Dr McNinja
Dan McNinja
Barbarian 15/alchemist 5/Ninja 10/Assassin 10 (alchemist levels optional, he might just have 20 levels of barbarian)
Ms McNinja
Ninja 10/Assassin 10/fighter 9/crimson assasin 10/shadowdancer 1
Dark smoke puncher
Ninja 10/wizard illusionist 1/ arcane trickster 10/machinesmith 19
Gordito
Gunslinger 20/Alchemist 5/ninja 5/monk 5/... I don't know what to put for the remaining 5 levels... paladin (holy gun)?
Dr Mcninja
Paladin (oath against undead) 5/alchemist (Chirurgeon, possibly herbalist, possibly not) 10/scholar or monk 5/ninja 20
How would yall build a Waves Oracle/Ninja gestalt? Would you focus on Shurikens, flurry of blows, or something else?
Also thoughts on Aasimar favored class bonus used to affect punitive transformation waves revelation for +5 DC eventually.
Kensai/oath of savagry pali with combat reflexes gets OA's equal to CHA+DEX+INT, and can use a quarterstaff trip build to essentially full attack up to eight creatures at once
is it just me or would it be kind of awesome at higher levels to have a monk of the sacred mountain/mountain druid? nice thematic synergy plus you could spend all of your time as a storm giant monk with full caster progression (mountain druids get giant shape 1+2 instead of the plant shape abilities). a large monk's unarmed strike does 4d8 at 20th level... none of the charts go this high, but based on the listed progressions i think a huge one would do 8d6 per hit... toss Strong Jaw on yourself and your base damage is 16d6! lol.
edit: i forgot about the MoSM's vow of silence, that would screw up your casting... i guess you'd have to pick a different archetype, or dip 4 levels of something else and grab a monk's robe (4 levels of inquisitor would increase your wisdom synergy even farther or fighter would get you 3 bonus feats including specialization)
OMG this makes me want to make a paladin/magus that smites eveil, then casts litany of righteousness then unleashes a spell combat with a maximized intensified shocking grasp with his keen katana.
He's MAD as hell, and he's not going to take it anymore!
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How about this:
Gnome Empyreal Sorc//Hungry Ghost Monk (with a dip of Heretic of Heresy Inquisitor on the monk side)
Super Heresy gives you Bluff with double your Wisdom, sweet. You're a gnome to use Bewildering Koan for swift action single target lockdown, so that Bluff bonus helps.
And you use Hungry Ghost abilities to replenish ki. It doesn't say you need to punch people to steal ki, so let's steal it with fireballs instead.
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not bad all,
I recently built a stealth/theft focused build based off of the character sam starfield
I spent 3 levels for quickling then take 4 levels of ninja (glory rouge/mage slayer) gestalted with 7 levels of shadow sorcerer then take 10 levels of arcane trickster gestalted with arcane duelist bard then finish up with assassin and sorcerer (the original build was only level 10 instead of 20 but this was the plan)
it's got full sorcerer casting,
10 levels of bard casting (4th lvl spells) and other bard stuff,
9d6 sneak attack you can use on your spells
nice assassin goodies
super speed and nice racial defenses
all in all a decently powerful build, and a very fun one to play
How about this for a gestalt:
That Lucky B-----d
This is a gestalt of invulnerable rager barbarian and archaeologist bard, taking advantage of the fact that its luck ability is not a performance (I never quite saw a satisfactory conclusion on whether performance can be used in rage; this avoids the issue and goes on to compliment the barbarian).
The build is mostly based around your generic superstitious, CaGM, beast totem barbarian, but you add in the Fate's Favored trait plus the Lingering Performance and Extra Performance Feats. With just a mild CHA of 14, you get 36 effective rounds a day where you get a scaling bonus ranging from +2 to +5 to attack, damage, skills, and saves. With those kinds of numbers, you can use it just about every round where you are raging.
Combined with uncanny dodge and evasion from the archaeologist, you turn the already tanky and deadly barbarian (made more so by the perfect saves of the gestalt) into a downright pain in the rear for the GM. It works well flavorwise too, since some of the abilities the archaeologist are ones that come with the vanilla barbarian, and a reliance on luck seems generally more appropriate that music (sure, there is heavy metal...but not everyone wants to play a Dethklok member).
i like the barb/archaeologist, but why not take some dragon disciple levels on the bard side :)
also, i was thinking about my earlier monk/mountain druid idea and thinking about how funny it would be to add vital strike into that build... with improved vital strike you'd punch for 48d6 base (plus str/power attack/etc- add dragon style for 1.5 str and 3:1 power attack), that's worse than failing a save against disintegrate (and even more so if you're looking at adding mythic as well- tack on mythic power attack and mythic vital strike...)
i like the barb/archaeologist, but why not take some dragon disciple levels on the bard side :)
also, i was thinking about my earlier monk/mountain druid idea and thinking about how funny it would be to add vital strike into that build... with improved vital strike you'd punch for 48d6 base (plus str/power attack/etc- add dragon style for 1.5 str and 3:1 power attack), that's worse than failing a save against disintegrate (and even more so if you're looking at adding mythic as well- tack on mythic power attack and mythic vital strike...)
Certainly a valid option, since the luck rounds do not scale with level. And with fate's favored, the bonuses from luck are rather front loaded, and you are getting a +3 to...just about everything...by level 5. All you are really missing out on are a few spell levels...and that would hardly be your main concern since you would be melee death incarnate already.
Your reflex saves also would not be 'perfect' anymore either...but at that point with superstition and luck, you are just giving your GM a tiny glimmer of hope of getting a spell off on you.
I guess my challenge fell by the wayside.
Hmmm... what about gestalt low-powered game? Say 5 point-buy, low-treasure. Maybe even a house-rule on spells to require an ability score modifier equal to spell level to cast a spell (so 10 + 2xlevel instead of 10 + level).
Probably end up with a lot of min/max characters, but it would be interesting.
in a 5 point buy game you'd probably get a lot of pet classes (since the pets are still just as strong... lunar oracle/summoner would be a particularly potent option.
You're gonna get a lot of summoners, inquisitors, and bards, since they only ever need a casting stat of 22 to cast any of their spells. And with a 16 to start and a +6 item, you're at your 22.Hmmm... what about gestalt low-powered game? Say 5 point-buy, low-treasure. Maybe even a house-rule on spells to require an ability score modifier equal to spell level to cast a spell (so 10 + 2xlevel instead of 10 + level).
Probably end up with a lot of min/max characters, but it would be interesting.
That could be an interesting consequence (though personally there wouldn't be any summoners). More likely a 14 to start and some level bumps, otherwise that leaves the rest of the stats at something like 7,9,10,10,10.
Pets might need to be toned down a slight bit. Edit: Ninja'd by nate :)
You're gonna get a lot of summoners, inquisitors, and bards, since they only ever need a casting stat of 22 to cast any of their spells. And with a 16 to start and a +6 item, you're at your 22.Hmmm... what about gestalt low-powered game? Say 5 point-buy, low-treasure. Maybe even a house-rule on spells to require an ability score modifier equal to spell level to cast a spell (so 10 + 2xlevel instead of 10 + level).
Probably end up with a lot of min/max characters, but it would be interesting.
Hmmm....considering that my archaeologist/barbarian idea gets bonuses out the wazoo, I think it could acutally rock that campaign.
Technically, a wizard/sorcerer/witch could be made on that build though. Not a very good one, but still possible. Just put everything into the casting stat and get a race with a bonus to that stat. No points left over for anything else, but meh. They might end up more survivable than usual since all the enemies would have to be nerfed to match the other classes. No hope for making anything gestalt though (unless you gestalt two full casters maybe), since you would not have anything leftover for phsyical stats.
I'm thinking what would go well with Swashbuckler. Maybe some type of Sorcerer, but Battle Oracle is just such a powerhouse for gishes.
I'm thinking what would go well with Swashbuckler. Maybe some type of Sorcerer, but Battle Oracle is just such a powerhouse for gishes.
paladin perhaps?
edit:at least 2 levels anyway.
Could do a Paladin dip for Grace, but it seems like a squandered opportunity.
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Antipaladin (Knight of the Sepulcher) & Ninja, Eldritch Heritage: Orc Bloodline
At lvl 20... something like +40 to all saves and on the first hit each round 1d10+50ish (physical damage) +72 (negative energy via Touch of Corruption, Conductive weapon) +DC ~37 for Stun/Paralysis (Cruelty) +Sneak attack (or 10 damage to an ability score; eg: Con, -100 hp effect).
Could do a Paladin dip for Grace, but it seems like a squandered opportunity.
this would seem awesome with that link
Hmm. I should start checking more multiclass archetype synergies.