Dangerously curious for the wand. I'm sure if you're looking at a level 9 build bard won't be that bad, but it will delay you while you're leveling up.
I think the wand would only be worth it if you were shooting adamantite cartridges at people a lot, which is a definite possibility.
I personally went Bard, but I wanted the class abilities, not just the one spell.
I ended up using the spell only maybe a third of the time, ammo costs I usually cover with my Day Job. Yay for stratospheric Diplomacy rolls and the ability to use it as my Day Job!
-j
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I have an 8th level Gunslinger in PFS who uses a double barrel pistol. With Rapid Shot and Haste I can get off 8 shots a round, considerably more than a Musket Master is likely to get off. And yet, I would still not bother with Abundant Ammunition most of the time. Why? Because spending a round casting the spell is a round I am not spending waisting the bad guys. If you can cast it as a pre battle buff, fine, but otherwise it just isn't worth it.
As an example, I recently played in Bonekeep. I used 50 rounds of ammunition in that adventure. Most of it was cartridges and some of that was cold iron so I spent around 300gp in ammo. But I also used up over 20 charges on my Wand of CLW and a Potion of Flying, both of which were worth more than 300 gp. So the ammo was not my big expense there.
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I personally went Bard, but I wanted the class abilities, not just the one spell.
I ended up using the spell only maybe a third of the time, ammo costs I usually cover with my Day Job. Yay for stratospheric Diplomacy rolls and the ability to use it as my Day Job!
-j
What are you gaining from Diplomacy that you aren't getting from Perform? I'm sure there are things, just trying to get a feel for the differential.
I'd use scrolls instead of a wand. The UMD is only 1 point higher, and once you cast from the scroll you can throw the now-blank scroll down as a free action, as opposed to sheathing the wand as a move action.
@trollbill, can I ask how you are getting off 8 shots per round? I am coming up quite a few less than that, so perhaps I am missing something.
Primary
SecondaryRapid shot
Haste
All x2 from the double-barreled pistol.
Yeah, pistoleros can get a silly number of attacks a round. They are usually really close to the front line, though.
@Deadmoon - technically nothing, as the character is an orator, so she uses the same roll for both. I just took the Caravan vanity because I felt like it.
-j
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Yeah, pistoleros can get a silly number of attacks a round. They are usually really close to the front
True, but Gunslingers have good HP and descent ACs so I don't mind taking a little pressure off the front liners once on a while. Of course I just added Distance to my gun so it has the same range as a musket.
Also, not a Pistolero. If I was I wouldn't get off as many shots as my gun would be jamming every other round. Mysterious Stranger solves that problem.
Still, Musket Master, looks fun too!
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ok, I can see 4 shots in the first round... but how do you reload?
Just counting... assuming reloading isn't an issue...
8/3 from level
6/6/1 from rapid shot
4/4/4/-1 from two weapon fighting
4/4/4/-1/-1 from improved twf
4/4/4/4/-1/-1 from haste.
That's six. I supposed you could say you are blowing both barrels at once to for the first shots, getting you:
0/0/0/0/4/4/-1/-1 (for 8)
The problem, as I see it, is you still need to reload, and reloading requires a free hand. Unless you are using some alchemist, witch, tiefling, or a weapon cord trick... though I would have thought that since recovering a weapon with a weapon cord is a swift action, you could only do that once (allowing one reload, but not both).
The 8 shots isn't using TWF, it's reloading both barrels of a single double-barreled pistol as a free action between every shot with rapid reload and paper cartridges.
Two shots from your primary attack, two shots from haste, two shots from rapid shot, and two shots from your secondary attack. You've got a free hand the whole time, avoiding weapon cord shenanigans.
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Zefig has It right. I am not using any 2-weapon shenanigans, just using Rapid Reload and Alchemical Cartridges to reload and fire both barrels with each attack. That's 8 attacks against up to 4 differant targets with a -9 to hit assuming Deadly Aim and +14 to damage if I am using Focused Aim which I almost always am.
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To the OP, unless there are other benefits you see from taking a level in Bard, it's probably more worth your while to just max out a Day Job to help pay for your ammunition instead (unless you're of the camp that hates Day Jobs).
My Gunslinger uses Diplomacy and the Caravan vanity to great effect. My modifier at level 7 is +19, and it's a skill that I don't mind maxing in Society.
Although I did just spent 360gp on ammo after my visit to Bonekeep, as that was a brutal scenario, most others I've played during her career haven't required much resupplying. You'll probably spend more on consumables over time.
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The 8 shots isn't using TWF, it's reloading both barrels of a single double-barreled pistol as a free action between every shot with rapid reload and paper cartridges.
Two shots from your primary attack, two shots from haste, two shots from rapid shot, and two shots from your secondary attack. You've got a free hand the whole time, avoiding weapon cord shenanigans.
Ok, by "secondary shot" you are talking about the iterative attack.
So, (with just BAB in consideration) the attack bonuses would be...
4/4/4/4/4/4/-1/-1
Thank for clearing this up... I was confused (not only by the terminology used). Now I can see how a double-pistol can make a pistol using gunslinger a machine gun, and probably a more effective combat monster than my musket-master will be.
Using paper carts makes the misfire chance 15%... so about 1/8 of the time. Which means that you'll probably misfire each round? So as a Mysterious Stranger, how do you deal with the misfires?
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So as a Mysterious Stranger, how do you deal with the misfires?You can't. Which is why you're much better off playing a pistolero or a musket master, not a mysterious stranger.
Check out the 5th level ability, negates missfires up to charisma modifer. Though that can be wasted rather quickly with 8 shots a round.
-Mysterious stranger archetype|
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Misfire likelihood is the reason that I have been looking past rapid shot for my musket master. Of course, my luck has been that Jayne Munny (my gunslinger) misfires probably twice a scenario, but has only ever gotten a crit once in his first four levels.
I have been planning on going the Vital Strike route, since it really seems a lot better than the deadshot deed (they are almost the same... the primary difference to me seems to be a) feat vs deed, b) full phase vs standard action, c) use grit to get a higher probability of partial damage over all or nothing).
However, Munny just made 5th level, and I am trying to figure out which feat to get for him. He already has Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Deadly Aim, and Extra Grit. Now, I could use the feat for something other than pure combat specialization, or not.
Actually, I am thinking that Blind-Fight would be good... in preparation of getting Ricochet Shot Deed. That being said, I think it is kind of silly, but could be fun once and a while.
Opinions?
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Exactly. 8 shots per round means slightly more than one misfire per round, so you can ignore maybe 3 rounds worth of misfires per day. Basically, misfires are just too big a deal to play a mysterious stranger, unless you shoot with a single single-barreled pistol, or are a dwarf taking advantage of the dwarf favored class bonus.
On the contrary, it's exactly the reason you should play a Mysterious Stranger. I have a Charisma of 22 at 8th level. That means I can ignore 6 misfires a day. So far I haven't had a problem since I got Stranger's Fortune. Compare using a double barrel pistol with a regular gunslinger. Firing 8 rounds (assuming cartridges for all shots) nets you around a 67% chance of a misfire at some point during the attack routine. For a regular gunslinger this stops the routine at the first misfire and prevents the routine from being used on the following round as well. With the Mysterious Stranger you just keep right on shooting, even sometimes scoring hits on a 2 or 3 which is something a regular gunslinger can't do.
In a home campaign that involves a lot of combats in a single day this might not work, but in PFS you only have 4-6 encounters and some of those are easy enough I don't have to go full auto. On the other hand, if I need to I can dish out well over 100 HP of damage in a single round without having to worry about misfires. That's pretty good for an 8th level character.
Mysterious Stranger works great for maximizing the number of attacks you get in a round both because Strangers Fortune allows uninterupted fire and because Focused Aim works on a per round rather than per attack basis. It's not so great for gunslingers that aren't trying to do this and you definitely have some issues prior to reaching 5th, but they are not insurmountable issues.
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Dead Shot is a much better version than vital strike, because instead of just adding damage dice, you add EVERYTHING to the bonus damage, and you only misfire if all of your iterative attacks misfire, which is pretty great
Nope.
For each additional successful attack roll beyond the first, the gunslinger increases the damage of the shot by the base damage dice of the firearm. For instance, if a 7th-level gunslinger firing a musket hits with both attacks, she does 2d12 points of damage with the shot, instead of 1d12 points of damage, before adding any damage modifiers.
Emphasis mine.
How is this any different than Vital Strike, save that it takes a grit and a full round action?