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Sadly, this closes the door to any change, even some that could actually end up making ALL the 6 people happy :-(*head explodes*My beliefs are very simple.
If 4 people have picked a GM to run and those 5 people are having a good time, everyone who is not one of those 5 people needs to STFU and stop telling the one person who isn't happy that they are right and the other 5 people are wrong.
If the GM isn't making 4 players happy with how they run, they need to look in the mirror, not blame the players.
The one unhappy person is generally the problem, and so the solution is not blaming 5 happy people and telling them they need to change what is apparently working just fine for them.
No, it actually makes change very simple.
The one person changes to accomodate the 5 people.
EDIT: And if the one person is "right" they can show it when they GM. And if they were courteous with other people's rules, they will likely get the same courtesy in return.
And whoever runs the best game, will be the style that becomes the norm for the group.
For one, majority rule isn't always the best option in a given situation, for reasons I'd rather not get into as it would likely turn into a massive tangent argument.
Secondly, isn't the OP trying really hard to prove that her way is the "best" way? And, as described, doesn't it seem like some people are generally agreeing with her? the cleric seems to have appreciated having all those spells written out on cards. the fighter seems to have appreciated being given a no-nonsense fighter to play. suddenly, we no longer have the 1 v/s all split that you describe. to me, it seems like we have a far more even split between players who appreciate and want to use the rules, and players who don't really care all that much about the rules. In this case, the players really need to come to a compromise, which it sounds like the OP is really...
Yes...that and the OP really needs a way to cope. Some players will always be problem players...sometimes the only thing will be showing them the door. This can be done diplomatically...or bluntly, as the case calls for it. That alone might save some hair. Much of this post is actually for the OP...
The idea of basic house/table rules has been discussed...I'll chime in and agree. If you might get a call that's vital, ok, otherwise stay off the cell phone...and if you're there to game...let's do that...which requires the vast majority of anyone's attention. I'd hesitate to insist everyone understand what their character can do...they should...but making that happen is out of your hands.
Something to try: Sit down with each person individually and discuss what their goals are regarding the game, and the character...make sure to let them know that you're frustrated, and trying to make it work for everybody, and want their input. Play up what they can do to achieve their goals...and to help you help them. Make them feel important, not just in the game, but to you as a friend. Friends are less likely to be disruptive when they feel it matters. Maybe even see if they'll do some of the out-of-game work for you...things like the spell cards are strictly extras...cooking dinner is too...you can ask if maybe someone else would take up where you're leaving off...the point is to give them some level of responsibility for the game. For some, this means they'll become a more active participant...but in many cases, it'll backfire. It helps to know your players.
I hope some of this is helpful.
A small suggestion for the Druid Character: House Rule the casting to become Spontaneous (still keeping WIS as primary casting stat and using the tables for the oracle for spells per day and spells known), giving all Summon Nature Ally and domain spell (if applicable) as bonus spell Known? After that, she only have to print the spells (good old cut&paste) and clip it with the character.I had a player like that and when he fell in love with the oracle after failing to be a cleric for not knowing his spells.
Another thing could be trying to prolong the levels with side quests, regulating the XP given, giving time to players to master their characters.
And Ciretose? For me, being GM and players implie a social contract: I must be willing to be entertaining to a degree (if seeing rain fall is more entertaining than listening to me, I really have a problem), but the players must also be minimally invested in the game before I begin (Rule mastery is not necessary, but the wanting to learn the game must be there). I don't think I really need to be more interesting than a movie on Netflix... If I need to be for a player, it's because the player is not interested in the Game and, for me, they can return home, coming back on Movie Night.
For me, DMing is a labor of love, but few things are totally free in life and for myself, I need to feel that the game is a two-way street (minimal interest on both parts) when I play.
To finalize, if there are mistakes and unclear statements in the post, I'm sorry as English is not my primary language and I'm truly rusty writing it.
Good day to all.
I'm pretty new to the world of tabletop gaming, and jumping straight in the deep end by DMing a Legacy of Fire campaign (3.5). I'm loving the game, I'm putting heaps of effort into preparing maps and spell cards, making tokens to represent everything on the board, and I've run into a problem:
My players can't seem to be bothered with even the simplest things.
The players are my boyfriend, my sister, my step-sister, a friend of mine from high school, and his friend and co-worker. They're fun to play with, and I love them all, but here's just a few things that frustrate me about my group:
-Interrupting me out of character when I'm monologuing in-character.
-Not bothering to read up on their class features.
-The cleric and druid almost never cast spells, turning every battle into a melee slug-fest, which gets particularly frustrating when the druid whines about not being able to hit anything with her sickle and 12 STR.
-Not even knowing what half their spells do - I don't expect them to keep track of every spell, but I kid you not, the druid ground combat to a halt because I had to point out to her that the spell lists don't contain all the information about the spell, and she had to flip to the full spell description about 20 pages in, and she complained because she couldn't find flame blade in an alphabetical list.
-I provide dinner, and nobody contributes to the cost, despite the fact that I'm the only one who's unemployed.
-Half the players don't assist in the cleanup after the session, leaving me and my boyfriend to clear up rubbish, wipe off the map, wash dishes, etc.
-Not adding things up properly on their character sheets, even when I'm sitting right next to them, walking them through the process.
-Getting dice confused - I kid you not, after three months of weekly gaming, two of them can't even tell the difference between a d8 and a d12.
-Being glued to mobile phones throughout the session.
-PVP.It frustrates me that I've spent so much time and money on visual aids, spell...
BEAT TEHM!!!!! BEAT THEM WITH A STICK!!!! USE A MALLET IF A STICK DONT WORK! BETA THTEM WITH HARD HEAVY OBJECTS UNTIL THEY STRAIGHTEN OUT OR LAID OUT! AAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaa!
Seriously though, some of the advice here is really good. Esp the part where that one guy said to ask if they just want to hang out.
Game-surrounding issues of people not bringing food:
I, too, cook for my weekly D&D group. I do it mostly because I like cooking. At first, I made all the food. Then, I started leaving obvious holes (Pasta, no garlic bread? HERESY.). And people started volunteering to fill them - somebody will bring some drinks, somebody will bring some bread, etc. Send out an email before game saying "Hey, I'm making X, Y and Z. Can somebody bring A, B, or C?". You'll never break even, really, but it can help.
You and I are lucky enough to have friends who pick up on hints. It seems the OP is having problems with her friends showing some basic respect for her efforts.
I suggest playing some board games instead. King of Tokyo is pretty sweet.
If you really want to play RPGs and your friends make it un-fun, there's always org-play, find-a-group boards, virtual tabletops, and play by post. Life is too short to let other people ruin something you enjoy.
It sounds like several of your players are far more interested in the role-playing aspect of the game than the combat aspect of the game (some appear to have near-zero interest in the latter). It might be worth considering this, and attempting to enhance the aspects everyone enjoys rather than following the adventure path's progression completely.
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My first bit of advice, take all of this advice with a grain of salt. Some of it honestly makes me cringe. There's no 'ONE TRUE WAY' to play D&D or anything else. Take each day one day at a time and do your best. You and your players will improve over time, that much is certain.
Some things already mentioned, and a few tidbits:
1) Tie reality to the PCs. If they aren't paying attention at the table, then the PC is distracted. If they miss their initiative give them a brief amount of time to correct it and then skip them. Explain that you worry that combat is bogging down the sessions and you want more time for the story. Sometimes I'll use a 'count outloud to five' method. "Your turn, what are you doing? (Short pause...) Five, four, three, two..." They usually attack something by that point.
2) Discuss swapping out their characters. Try and match what they like to do with what the character would be good at doing. Honestly I tend to ret-con these types of changes, especially when dealing with new (e.g. non-hardcore) players. "Guys, starting this session, 'X' was always a Ranger and not a Druid." Don't sweat being 'figher heavy'. That kind of thing only matters if you can't be flexible and adapt encounters to your group. Speaking of...
3) Be flexible. Look, this is hard to do, I know, but I'm guessing you'll love it once you get used to it. Personally, I'm addicted to it. You mentioned your clever group trying to get the bugbears drunk. Imagine how the session might have gone had you allowed it to happen. I'm guessing it may have been more fun. Look for opportunites to go off the rails and make things 'custom' for your friends. There will be some learning involved but you'll all love it in the long run. Make sure that whatever you're doing, you're rewarding the players who participate. Speaking of...
4) Reward the players who participate. Now, to be clear, I am NOT recommending favoritism. Except that I am, if only slightly. Don't use anything tangible like XP, gold, or anything like that. Use gentle praise, like, "That is a GREAT idea. Roll a d20."
5) Put wallflowers in the spotlight. This can be hard, too, but you might start by just watching for opportunites. Imagine the party in a city where they're intended to encounter a key NPC. Try having that NPC stumble into the wallflower's character alone. It may pay off big time. And even if it backfires, you can usually get the adventure back on track with a few quick adjustments.
6) If all else fails, put the game aside for a minute and focus on the table stuff. Have a conversation about how others think combat might go a bit faster, etc. Once I actually held an impromptu acting session where we just threw people into different roles and had them act in character for the scene. Another option is to have them spend a session trying to weave together their backstories, come up with villians for each other, or do other things that make their characters more 'real'. A bit of maintenance can go a long way, and these don't even need to be whole sessions. Maybe just the first fifteen minutes.
It sounds like you're off to a great start. Before long you'll be in here tossing advice out on how you improved your own table.
Cap your xp lvl at 3. Let your players get familiar with their builds/ classes.
Stop feeding them and they will bring their own food or pitch in together on something.
Assign duties, have one person run the initiative and spell effects board, one person sets up and breaks down, one person cleans maps and such. Rotate duties.
Have a session that is ALL character audit. Take them one by one and show them how to add and what their classes do. Keep track of to hit and AC chances so when you see a dice rolled you have a good idea if it hits or not. Take that time to go over back grounds and character aspirations.
Set up house rules for in and out of character communication. Talk to problem players and make sure everyone is having fun. Organize and guide it. Own your campaign and house.
I get a sense from the OP that she is getting a lot of stress from this role and is doing a good deal to try to make the game fun for the players. And so I think ciretose's lecturing her that she effectively is 'to blame' is over the top, harsh, and not helpful. And it seems like the OP has tuned out since then.
Besides that, there's been a lot of good tips in this thread. I would just point out that the OP is having issues with asserting authority, and that there is a dynamic of feeling pushed over and people not appreciating her efforts. I definitely can relate (the average age of my players is 11!), and I know there is a countervailing tendency to "push back" and be passive-aggressive myself toward the players. Avoid that, and look for concrete ways to deal with the underlying problems causing their lack of focus.
Definitely find some individual time talking to those players who aren't taking advantage of all their class abilities, about what class makes the most sense for them. Consider allowing them to switch out class, race, and other character-creation decisions without penalty.
I have just adopted the "hanging folded initiative cards" described at this blog. I've found it useful to track initiative and, most importantly, let the players know when their turn is coming up. If someone isn't ready, they Delay and I set their card onto the table.
The character who isn't using all their druid abilities and then complained afterward to you that the monster was "too hard" was being a real d***. I'm thinking you need to get your boyfriend and that other player (who played the Fighter) to (1) help split GM duties with you -- not just tracking initiative, etc. but also mentoring the less focused and less capable players, and to (2) help you be your co-advocates at the table when issues arise. They sound like they'd be big supporters and would give you less of an "all of them vs. me" feeling.
[2 CENTS INCOMING] This is how I learned to GM, by being a newbie and dealing with 4 frustrating players who were my friends and roommates. It hardened my heart to the point where I can now mess with my party by destroying magical items and the like. It can be a fun game when the players are the ones who need to stay on their toes instead of the GM dealing with "problem players". [2 CENTS DEPOSITED]
Also, I bought a big metallic d20 that I can slam on the table. That helps.
Took my players nearly a year to figure out which die was which. They still roll the wrong dice occasionally.
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I don't think my partner will ever figure out which is the d8 vs d10. At this point I just think it's cute.
TI think a lot of good advice has been given in this thread (and a little bad advice). So here's my 2cp
I GM a lot. I do it because I love to do it. Whenever I'm sitting at a table and realize I've been drawing a map/cutting out minis/prepping pre-gens/reading a module for the 3rd time/whateverthecase for hours on end, and I think to myself for the slightest moment "why am I putting in 20x the effort of anyone else?" I suddenly realize "who am I fooling, I love this crap." If I wasn't feeling that way I'd push through for a while, but it seems like that's the point where you started and now you're well past that.
So, I advise that you become willfully ignorant a bit about the players in the group who are causing you to have a bad time. I think that ignoring people that aren't paying attention and skipping their turn is a good idea. Maybe if those players not participating hurts the group enough some peer pressure may come from other players at the table. By ignoring the people who aren't participating as much it will give you more time to focus on the game with the players who want to play. Occasionally tossing out some hints to the people who are paying attention that a "certain spell that druids/wizards/clerics/whoeverisn'tpayingattention can cast would sure go a long way" might be the kind of push you need to get that peer pressure machine working in your favor.
I know where you're coming from though. I GM for some very good friends who are both casual and poor players, but like your group they love playing. I found that pre-gens did wonders for them. I also learned that handing them everything that hero lab (I really recommend hero lab too btw) can print out for skill/feat/spell descriptions did wonders for them. I did what I needed to do to make it so they had to learn/remember as little as possible (basically all they had to learn/remember was to look at their sheets). I cost me more prep time, but much less headache. I also start out every game session with them stating something like "If you don't know how to do something just tell me in plain language what you're trying to do and I'll translate to game language to try to bog down the game session as little as possible." It helps! They just say stuff like "I want to try to check for traps" and don't even realize they're using game terms. This approach puts more pressure on you, but if you want to play with people who don't want to learn rules that's sometimes required.
Best of luck, and don't forget that you're doing this primarily because you love it.
PS: As a final note; your game may fall apart. But! With the magic of the internet and Skype and virtual table tops, while you may not get to play with a local group, you may be able to still have a comparable experience. This situation you're in is not your only option!
First off like so many people have stated, u are a stellar dm. Its hard being a dm with a great grp at times, u are a great dm with a less than stellar group.
from reading ur posts, u are wanting to have an epic campaign whereas ur group mainly just wants to relax and goof off and roleplay. Both of yal are not in the wrong per se,, its just thats its clashing.
So I will give u advice to were u can have ur cake and eat it too.
First off look for another group of like minded dnd players or people who want to learn. Its hard finding new people and I have found one of the best ways that works for me is to go to public places and bring a dnd book with u, core book, beastieary book, etc and juat have it to where people can see. U will ne surprised at how many will come up and ask what that is or do u play dnd. Also sadly yes alot of dnd players do fit the physical stereotype I have seen and if u see anyone looking like they would be comfortable in a resonance fair or such, go up and introduce urself and ask if they no about dnd. Basically work on forming a seperate group and seat down with each new peraon and make sure their focus is more inline with urs.
Secondly, pick a seperate date than the one ur original group is using.
Third, focus ur time and energy in the workings of the new group and just focus mainly on roleplaying scenarios for the original group.
This way u get ur cake and eat it too. U eep the orginal group and u get to hang out without the unnecessary drama of trying to get them to change and they get to focus on what they consider fun and u and everyone stays in good graces with each other. The new group u focus ur time and efforts into and get rewarded hopefully with getting the feedback and gqmeplay ur desiring. Also if said group doesnt work, u can always stop it and hey these guys are basically just strangers and accantices so doesnt weigh heavy on the emotions to just stop compared to doing it to the group of family and friends.
If the new group is really successful and make sure to invite the players who actually play to the new group of course with some ind of vow of silence lol, u can start Lessing the efforts in the orginal group and let them ill the session without u having to, whereas instead of it being ur fault, it just dies because eh its not as enjoyable anymore.
Again its a way u can have ur cake and eat it too, it just envolves u being a bit more actively socialable. Hell the book thing works wonders for me and I have a friend we created tshirts that well his has a dnd logo and mine has pathfinder and it says "if ya no what this is and interested holla at me. Granted we made those outta desperation but believe it or not, walk onto a community campus with something like that cor bout an hour and u will get quite a few people asking questions. Ur are gonna get people just wondering and not really caring and u will get some that do like but like ur friends care mainly on one aspect and not the others (larping types), but just throwing advice out there for ya. Im pretty sure u being a girl wearing a shirt that says u dm, will sadly get u aloy of guys talking to ya so u might wanna state something like me and mu boyfriend dm to prevent the ones who just wanna date lol.
Anyway rambling done, continue on qith the good fight and hopefully one day u will get what ur wanting in return.