Female GMs?


Advice

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Jessica Price wrote:
Guys, seriously, take it down a notch. It's a good thing your wife made this thread, Lamontius. As far as I can tell, LazarX is just saying it's a shame we even have to ask whether female GMs have experienced gender-based harassment.

Exactly this. Lamontius, your wife did nothing wrong in making such a thread--far from it! But we'll know we're in a better place as a community when nobody feels the need to do so--when gender is no longer something people feel the need to take into account when evaluating (or being) a gamer. We just aren't there yet.

Scarab Sages

I don't think it's a matter of sex, but rather a matter of work. I don't think I've ever met female player with the drive to not only enjoy the game, but to achieve the level of system comprehension and put in the extensive work required to DM, at least without a lot of assistance.

My wife has DM'd solo games for me a few times, and we had a lot of fun, but when I'm the one who knows all the rules, it ends up with me as the GM, but I'm running characters and she's playing the encounters.

Now, that's not to point out women I've met as being poor players, but rather that there are fewer women I've met that want to devote the time and effort to the system than there are men I've met. But then, players of both sexes tend to be a bunch of lazy scum anyways. :P

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Davor wrote:

I don't think I've ever met female player with the drive to not only enjoy the game, but to achieve the level of system comprehension and put in the extensive work required to DM, at least without a lot of assistance.

.....

...there are fewer women I've met that want to devote the time and effort to the system than there are men I've met.

In my experience, male and female players/GMs have been roughly equivalent in their ranges of "system comprehension" (to use your term), with the only difference being women's ability to recognize their incomplete expertise as compared to men's tendency to vastly overestimate their own rules-fu.

Scarab Sages

Right, but then I DID fill my post with an overabundance of qualifiers pertaining to anecdotal experience. :P

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Um... okay? Did you think I was saying you hadn't really had your experience or something?

Scarab Sages

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Jiggy wrote:
Um... okay? Did you think I was saying you hadn't really had your experience or something?

Oh, no. I just wanted to clarify. I find that when discussing topics related to sex that one can never clarify too much. >_>

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Davor wrote:

I don't think it's a matter of sex, but rather a matter of work. I don't think I've ever met female player with the drive to not only enjoy the game, but to achieve the level of system comprehension and put in the extensive work required to DM, at least without a lot of assistance.

My wife has DM'd solo games for me a few times, and we had a lot of fun, but when I'm the one who knows all the rules, it ends up with me as the GM, but I'm running characters and she's playing the encounters.

Now, that's not to point out women I've met as being poor players, but rather that there are fewer women I've met that want to devote the time and effort to the system than there are men I've met. But then, players of both sexes tend to be a bunch of lazy scum anyways. :P

Both men and women can have blindsides as GM's. For women it can be the niggly bits of system mastery. For men, it's losing sight of the interrelated story details. Both of which can be dealt with and overcome.


Davor wrote:
I don't think it's a matter of sex, but rather a matter of work. I don't think I've ever met female player with the drive to not only enjoy the game, but to achieve the level of system comprehension and put in the extensive work required to DM, at least without a lot of assistance.

*chuckle* After your first sentence I was thinking in my head, "He's right, every female GM I've seen puts *tons* of effort into the game to make it special - even the few that aren't great!"

Definitely a variety of experience issue - certainly the amount of work put in has a direct influence on the result (if not always changing it).


When I got in the hobby back in the 80's the only girls I ever saw at the table were girlfriends of one of the male gamers and/or that creepy GM with a pony tail. That seemed to be one of the few entry points for girls to game at the time.

Being a +1 can be a lame entry point for any hobby. You sadly just don't get much respect and it takes longer to earn it. When/if the relationship breaks off no one expects you to remain interested in the hobby. Human nature maybe...

But good news! My friends daughter just had her first Pathfinder game at Geek Girl Con in Seattle with other kids her age. So she might still have a creepy GM with a pony tail but at least that GM is a girl who is roughly the same age. :)

-MD


Davor wrote:

I don't think it's a matter of sex, but rather a matter of work. I don't think I've ever met female player with the drive to not only enjoy the game, but to achieve the level of system comprehension and put in the extensive work required to DM, at least without a lot of assistance.

My wife has DM'd solo games for me a few times, and we had a lot of fun, but when I'm the one who knows all the rules, it ends up with me as the GM, but I'm running characters and she's playing the encounters.

Now, that's not to point out women I've met as being poor players, but rather that there are fewer women I've met that want to devote the time and effort to the system than there are men I've met. But then, players of both sexes tend to be a bunch of lazy scum anyways. :P

Anecdotal evidence of course, but I sort of agree and sort of think you're completely wrong.

Most of the female GMs I've played with (and players too, but to a lesser extent) have been less interested in system mastery and extensive rules knowledge than some of the male GMs. That's not an matter of drive or hard work in my experience, just of a different focus. An awful lot of hard work can go into the campaign and adventure design and that has to be done for every game, not just a matter of getting the rules down once.

The female GMs I've played with generally favored more rules light systems over things like D&D/PF anyway. As, in general, do I.


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I'm a female gamer/GM who started playing in the late 70's and ran a couple of sessions then. I took a loooooong break and came back to 3.5 in 2006. We then switched to Pathfinder when it came out.

I've never run into real trouble with players as a female GM. I have a low, quiet voice, so people tend to talk over me at the gaming table as well as everywhere else in life. At the table, a few threats of '-2' are sufficient to get everyone's attention. I also reward players who pay attention and help advance plot points and flesh out their characters. My focus is on creating an immersive world where players 'become' their characters and have the ability to act as freely and creatively as possible within the confines of their abilities, social position, and finances. Kinda like real life.

The biggest technical problem was the jump from d6 to d20 and hitting 3.5 at the very end of the splat book deluge. There was a TON of material to learn and my memory is poor. I feel I spend an inordinate amount of time prepping, but players have expressed appreciation for the time and effort I put into organizing play (in RL games -- I'm trying my first pbp and have found it tough to keep focus).

As an INTP, system mastery is kinda my thing, even though I am a person of boobage.


Avatar-1 wrote:

I don't think gender really comes into it (except for corner cases, maybe, but that's an exception).

A lot of players just tend to always think of themselves as players and never really think of putting themselves in the GM seat, or are too worried they won't be able to be a decent GM. Applies to both genders.

This seems to be my experience as well. The ratio seems just about the same in my social circles as to Girl players/girl GMs compared to boy players/boy GMs. The fact there are fewer girl players in general is the root cause of a perceived lack of girl GMs. Figure out how to get more girls into the hobby and you increase the number of girl GMs.

Easier said then done, but let's face it, this is the sort of thing that either is handled over a generation or two by raising your children with an appreciation for the nerdier aspects of society, or is done all in one huge tidal wave because of some massive media sensation that made a fad out of some Roleplaying game. The latter gets results sooner but effectively drops off quickly as well and won't stick as well, and also really is hard to predict what can do such a thing.


Vincent Takeda wrote:

My wife had an open invitation to join my gaming group and adamantly refused to do it.

She has always been interested in writing and I always thought she'd be good at gaming.
She also adamantly refused to let me teach her chess.
She let someone from her work teach her chess and wouldnt play me until she was able to beat everyone else at her work with reasonable confidence.
Now she's even joined a gaming group and we talk about her table all the time, but its not a table that i'm at.
Finally they asked her to try running a game.
She came to me for help putting it together.
I do not run the system that her table is running but i've run similar plots in similar systems for decades.
Her table normally only runs one-offs. Never a story that lasts more than one day.
On the day her campaign was done they asked her to keep it going.

I admire your wife's independence and gusto, but the way in which she seems to exclude you seems excessive. Sorry if my appraisal is incorrect, I'm just going off of what you wrote. The two of you playing chess at home could be an enjoyable passtime. While I am completely in favor of partners having their own interests and hobbies, I'd love it if I shared even one with mine.


I know a few. At least three off the top of my head. I haven't had any of them GM for me though.

Well. The first one is actually male, but was born female, lived most of their life as a female, so I thought I'd include them. That game was gonna be under the fallout pen and paper system. I just am never around for that game. I hear it's good though.

Another one of them usually GMs for D&D 4e, but from what I understand, she's been learning 5e as well, and now that her 4e game has sorta fallen apart, you know, people having jobs and such, she's looking to start a 5e. I believe she also is part of the first's fallout game.

And then there's this one girl online I know. She GMs several games. I think she started in 3.5, plays pathfinder, and has played a few other systems as well. While she was already GMing a few games, she was a player in mine for a little while, and she was honestly one of the best role players I had, and had the most thought out back stories and characters, which was appreciated. Her character's intro is one of the most memorable RPG moments I've ever had.

All of them are great role players and roll players. They've displayed great system mastery, storytelling skills, and organizational skills. Honestly, the women I've roleplayed with are some of the best gamers I've ever known, now that I think of it.


I've never had a female GM, but to be honest, I couldn't care less what his/her chromosomes are. Now, I have female players in my game, and again I don't care what their gender is.

One of the female players is a rookie, and is definitely learning the game gradually. She doesn't do much reading, although she is organized.

The other female player seems to be lost. She never knows which dice to roll. Started her out with a Fighter, but she now wants to be able to cast spells and still fight, so when we start up our Runelords campaign I intend to give her a Bard. Sure hope it works out, as I want her to have fun.

Dark Archive

I think that anyone who thinks lesser of them than a male GM is sexist, for obvioius reasons. No reason that a male GM is better than a female, and vice versa.


I was impressioned by a GM years ago at a con for a PFS game which was the best run game I've ever sat at. She gave us a little preamble about expectations beforehand as to her style, and ran the game with a sense of urgency that we all felt that we were running out of time because the game was moving so fast. It was awesome. I have tried to emulate her style since.

Some balance between being a total boss and yet totally flexible, in that you are willing to hear people out but are ultimately responsible for the entire table experience is to me a characteristic that draws upon traits classically deemed both male and female. DMs kind of automatically have to be a freak of both genders to be fun to game with (IMHO), which is what draws me to the hobby no matter which side of the table I'm on.

I think the biggest hurdle to expanding the prevalence of more female players and especially GMs is that inherent to male-dominated culture (in sheer numbers) is the stone-age mentality some folks have about intelligence, communication, and power - the Ol' Boys Club mentality which views the male race as the master of the female race. Insidiously not even outright hostility! Instead often operating as a subtle set of assumptions which lead to comments which lead to tensions invisible to the untrained eye, but tangible to someone trying to break the mold. Like a gamer glass ceiling whose currency is 'table-cred' rather than money.

Fortunately I have also witnessed that trend changing slowly as well, with people who are willing to check their assumptions at the door, side-by-side religious views and political philosophies, and all the other other game-irrelevant stuff, in order that we can keep the spirit of the 0th rule.


I've had both male and female GMs. The female one wasn't any worse than the males (and better than some of them)..at least until she's gone nuts, but that had less to do about the feminity and more about overdosing on alcohol and experimenting with worse stuff even. Might have been a small problem with her period, but then I'd say one of my male GMs was a bigger pain in the back when I tried out a female PC


Drejk wrote:
I played a whole campaign GMed by a female friend. It was one of two campaigns that were actually completed instead of falling apart, being dragged into infinity or slowly dissolving. It took some six or seven years and left back door for eventual follow-up campaign but was finished.

The same GM started another campaign in the same universe (World Of Darkness/Mage The Ascension): this time on the other side of fence, of sorts - Technocracy On Mars, over fifteen years after the end of previous campaign.


Female GM here. I ran the first two books of Legacy of Fire for a group of friends, starting last February, before the campaign fell apart to shifting circumstances. Began Kingmaker this year, moved it to a PBP due to no longer having a venue (someone was stealing stuff from my house). The group loved what I was doing, particularly voices - I have an easier time doing male voices than my male GMs have doing female ones, so I can easily set apart different NPCs. Never had any problems in my home group, except for one player who loved to make sexist jokes ("A woman was hit by a car yesterday." "Really? Why was the guy driving in the kitchen?"), but he went on to other things.

Moved to PFS, and loved it. It was a long time before I felt comfortable running a scenario, because there was only one other woman who would show up to games with any regularity (Cammi, if you ever read this, come back! We miss you!). To this day I've only seen about half a dozen women play a local PFS table, in an ever-changing lineup of men.

Face-to-face, I've encountered no overt harassment as a female GM, and I'm racing towards my second star now. The VC and VL have both praised my style, which gives me a much-needed confidence boost.

There was one incident, though, which left me feeling down. For my first Con, we put up pre-registration on the con website for a total of six PFS tables per day. The GMs were listed by first name. So we had Tom, Anthony, Denzil... and Veronica. I got two sign-ups for the first slot, and one for the second (from one guy who thought we we playing the card game). The other guys (spare the VL) were full for each slot. That nearly broke me.

The incident was a downer, to the point where I'm considering putting my name down as Ronnie on the website next year, because it's more masculine. But the regulars have all been great, and have never questioned me or made me feel inferior.

In my own head, though, I constantly feel like I have to keep proving myself. The 'fake geek girl' BS and other recent events make me feel as though I need to work twice as hard as my male counterparts for the same amount of respect and recognition. That's not true, of course (not with the regulars, anyway), but knowing something to be false can't stop me feeling it.

Shadow Lodge

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El Ronza wrote:

The incident was a downer, to the point where I'm considering putting my name down as Ronnie on the website next year, because it's more masculine. But the regulars have all been great, and have never questioned me or made me feel inferior.

In my own head, though, I constantly feel like I have to keep proving myself. The 'fake geek girl' BS and other recent...

Wow. That's crap to have to have gone through that. I'll play at your table any time, El Ronza.

I've known more female players than GMs, but never even thought about it until the last few years. We always had female players and every so often one of them would step up and GM. In the last 10 years or so though, I've started running into all male groups. By comparison, all male groups suck. I don't know what it is, but some guys just think that when the ladies aren't around they can suddenly be total douche-bags. Sorry guys, I'm a decent person full time, not just when I'm trying to impress the girls.

I also hate those guys I've run into in the last few years who always complain about the guy who's girlfriend tags along to play. Shut up and teach her to play, guys. We should be so lucky as to find a partner that shares our interests.


Should not have clicked into thread ....nope....should not have have clicked....

Scarab Sages

mplindustries wrote:
Lamontia wrote:
As a player, what are your thoughts on female GMs? Have you had one? Ho was it? Why do you think there are so few?

I've had couple. It was fine. They're no better or worse than the male GMs I've had.

I think there are so few because there are likely fewer female gamers than male gamers and only a small portion of the gamer population GMs, so the intersection of those two groups is pretty small in the end.

If it means anything, 1/3 of the females I've gamed with have tried GMing.

Pretty much this most players are male, most players never GM so there aren't a lot of girls who also GM. I've had them worse than some (guy's who've GM'd for years and gotten very good at it), better than others (some of whom are also guy's who've GM'd for years and formed their own opinions of how things should be and are unwilling to change). Frankly I think the only way to get more girls GMing is to get more girls gaming and then encourage them to try their hand at GMing.

Sadly short of magical gender changing spells or a shift in attitudes amongst the community at large I doubt that'll change.


I introduced my husband and brothers-in-law to AD&D 2nd edition several years ago and we've been doing a round-robin of D&D and Pathfinder games ever since, adding girlfriends and wives as they came along. I'm currently planning two Pathfinder games for when it's my turn to GM. I also run a Pathfinder beginner box game for teenagers at our local library, which has been entirely female in attendance. I've got three players ranging in age from 12 to 15 and no boys at all. It's been fun, honestly, because the girls are exploring being powerful in a world that might not always see them as powerful. I work to balance gender equality, especially for the library game, but throwing some things in that let the kids think about what it means to be female in an antagonistic society has been about as helpful as teaching them how to use a bank (yes, I maintain an interest-paying bank for adventurers).


Uuuugh

Quote:
As a player, what are your thoughts on female GMs? Have you had one? Ho was it? Why do you think there are so few?

"Why does it matter?"

"No."


My wife is GMing for the first time and is doing a great job at it. We are doing a RotRL campaign and she really has done a good job with both the mechanics and with the ability to make the campaign seem to come alive with her NPCs and descriptions.

So yes, female GMs can be great. They also can not be great. Gender should not matter only individual skill.

Scarab Sages

kijilinn wrote:
I introduced my husband and brothers-in-law to AD&D 2nd edition several years ago and we've been doing a round-robin of D&D and Pathfinder games ever since, adding girlfriends and wives as they came along. I'm currently planning two Pathfinder games for when it's my turn to GM. I also run a Pathfinder beginner box game for teenagers at our local library, which has been entirely female in attendance. I've got three players ranging in age from 12 to 15 and no boys at all. It's been fun, honestly, because the girls are exploring being powerful in a world that might not always see them as powerful. I work to balance gender equality, especially for the library game, but throwing some things in that let the kids think about what it means to be female in an antagonistic society has been about as helpful as teaching them how to use a bank (yes, I maintain an interest-paying bank for adventurers).

Sounds interesting.


I've noticed that female GMs can get groups easier and players tend to show up to the table more frequently.

That right there is half the struggle of GMing.

I have also noticed that people tend to be more comfortable with a female role playing a male than a male role playing a female, so barrier to a diverse NPC cast goes down.

On the flip side, the social stigma that females should not like fantasy, sci-fi, or fun in general is still there. Getting one of my friends into D&D took years of effort and now she likes it more than I do. But she really struggled against the notion that she wasn't suppose to like this stuff.


Marroar Gellantara wrote:


On the flip side, the social stigma that females should not like fantasy, sci-fi, or fun in general is still there. Getting one of my friends into D&D took years of effort and now she likes it more than I do. But she really struggled against the notion that she wasn't suppose to like this stuff.

There is such a stigma? It seems to me like a western, probably american thing. Perhaps I'm the alien around and its my view that's wrong, but from what I see at my place in Poland A female sharing "male" interests is actually a good and desirable thing. GMs and Groups, especially stable ones are hard enough to come by that scoffing at females is to be considered bad tone, given they're already a rare sight at the table.


I've only had experience with one female DM, who I played a couple of mixed pathfinder/3.5 games with. She was a very animated person, games were often pretty enjoyable, though she was sometimes stuck in very old mentalities (Like, for example, being surprised that my cleric walked up to enemies and smacked them with heavy things rather than sitting back and casting CLW on the fighters) and sometimes was not exactly fond when I threw curve balls, but as mentioned before the sessions were overall fun.

I don't really think the sex or gender of the DM matters, it's all in the attitude and the effort. I know I haven't played with many female DMs since my regular pathfinder group only has two females in it and neither seem interested in DMing. Our group does seem to be expanding a bit though, and our current campaign has been rotating DMs as a means of spinning up interest for people to try out both sides of the table, and it seems to be working, so we might just end up with a little more diversity.


StDrake wrote:
Marroar Gellantara wrote:


On the flip side, the social stigma that females should not like fantasy, sci-fi, or fun in general is still there. Getting one of my friends into D&D took years of effort and now she likes it more than I do. But she really struggled against the notion that she wasn't suppose to like this stuff.
There is such a stigma? It seems to me like a western, probably american thing. Perhaps I'm the alien around and its my view that's wrong, but from what I see at my place in Poland A female sharing "male" interests is actually a good and desirable thing. GMs and Groups, especially stable ones are hard enough to come by that scoffing at females is to be considered bad tone, given they're already a rare sight at the table.

I think it's more common in nerd communities where cosplay is prevalent (video games, comic books, etc.) but it certainly exists. A lot of male gamers have an unhealthy gatekeeper mentality going on.

Grand Lodge

StDrake wrote:
Marroar Gellantara wrote:


On the flip side, the social stigma that females should not like fantasy, sci-fi, or fun in general is still there. Getting one of my friends into D&D took years of effort and now she likes it more than I do. But she really struggled against the notion that she wasn't suppose to like this stuff.
There is such a stigma? It seems to me like a western, probably american thing. Perhaps I'm the alien around and its my view that's wrong, but from what I see at my place in Poland A female sharing "male" interests is actually a good and desirable thing. GMs and Groups, especially stable ones are hard enough to come by that scoffing at females is to be considered bad tone, given they're already a rare sight at the table.

Sign me onto the group that gives a collective "What?" about women suffering some sort of stigma about enjoying fantasy/sci-fi.

Lucky to be Canadian I guess.

Liberty's Edge

^_^ Don't matter to me, I GM and Play with pretty much anyone, only Female GM I've had that had issues when she tried to stick us in a novel/story line she was writing for a story. The story was great but the players took a backseat to a lot of NPC's. So while entertaining wasn't exactly what I tend to fully enjoy. But I've had male & female GM's do the same things before since 2nd edition.

Some create more story than interactive adventure, some more war games than thinking games, and some more story driven than combat. Long as I have an inkling of what to expect I'm generally happy.

Except those GM's that tend to go out of their way to create worlds that require you to be level 20 to face rats....dealt with one of those GM's too once.

O_o never much fun, until that skill they underestimate [Diplomacy] changes the enemies when I got them to listen to converting to the god of Balance, thus the race as a hive mind (which I think should have been immune to interaction skills) now had to do good for 50,000 years to make up for their 50,000 years of evil. (Which as the other players found, happily ended the game at level 4)


Arachnofiend wrote:
I think it's more common in nerd communities where cosplay is prevalent (video games, comic books, etc.) but it certainly exists. A lot of male gamers have an unhealthy gatekeeper mentality going on.

I would say this is true. To give some perspective as to why, though, it's really kind of a survival instinct. Back in my middle school getting bullied days my makeup of friends were just other dudes. The girls I'd try to talk to either wouldn't want to talk to me or the ones that would tended to be ones that participated in bullying. Then, some time goes by and I kept trying and when it seemed I would get someone's attention to just talk some a%#~+&+ felt the need to intervene cutting that interaction short. So, adapting to that is a bit much like a walled garden. For a while it was very much "me and my friends here" and "you and everyone like you that I don't really feel comfortable around anyway can stay over there." Then, I grew up and had to learn a#&!$*+s are just a&@#!*%s.

Sovereign Court

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I met my current GF at a Pathfinder Society Table. As we got to know each other I found out she's a good cook, likes baseball, likes video games, and is into fantasy RPGs. I feel like I couldn't be luckier.


StDrake wrote:
Marroar Gellantara wrote:


On the flip side, the social stigma that females should not like fantasy, sci-fi, or fun in general is still there. Getting one of my friends into D&D took years of effort and now she likes it more than I do. But she really struggled against the notion that she wasn't suppose to like this stuff.
There is such a stigma? It seems to me like a western, probably american thing. Perhaps I'm the alien around and its my view that's wrong, but from what I see at my place in Poland A female sharing "male" interests is actually a good and desirable thing. GMs and Groups, especially stable ones are hard enough to come by that scoffing at females is to be considered bad tone, given they're already a rare sight at the table.

There is definitely such a stigma. I have experienced it...

But, perhaps it's an age thing? These young kids born after the invention of the internet may not have had to deal with as many limits on what was proper?


Arachnofiend wrote:
StDrake wrote:
Marroar Gellantara wrote:
On the flip side, the social stigma that females should not like fantasy, sci-fi, or fun in general is still there. Getting one of my friends into D&D took years of effort and now she likes it more than I do. But she really struggled against the notion that she wasn't suppose to like this stuff.
There is such a stigma? It seems to me like a western, probably american thing. Perhaps I'm the alien around and its my view that's wrong, but from what I see at my place in Poland A female sharing "male" interests is actually a good and desirable thing. GMs and Groups, especially stable ones are hard enough to come by that scoffing at females is to be considered bad tone, given they're already a rare sight at the table.
I think it's more common in nerd communities where cosplay is prevalent (video games, comic books, etc.) but it certainly exists. A lot of male gamers have an unhealthy gatekeeper mentality going on.

I was more talking about the stigma that females apply to themselves.

I've seen friends repress smiles because they think the activity they are doing is suppose to be less fun for them than for males.


El Ronza wrote:
There was one incident, though, which left me feeling down. For my first Con, we put up pre-registration on the con website for a total of six PFS tables per day. The GMs were listed by first name. So we had Tom, Anthony, Denzil... and Veronica. I got two sign-ups for the first slot, and one for the second (from one guy who thought we we playing the card game). The other guys (spare the VL) were full for each slot. That nearly broke me.

That's really unfortunate. I wouldn't take it to heart though, I'm sure it has nothing to do with your capabilities as a GM. Often times people feel comfortable with gaming (or doing any other hobby) with people like themselves.

As an example, when I was in my early twenties, there was a potential gamer to our group that was in his 40s. There isn't anything wrong with 40 year olds gaming with twenty year olds, but I didn't want him in our group. I didn't have anything against the guy (I'd never met him,) I just wasn't comfortable with the idea.

As far as the topic its self, I haven't ever gamed with a female GM, and can count on one hand the number of female players in our various groups. I'd put more weight on the GM's personality & experience than gender.

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