Of course that there is difference between male and female GM ;P I've had two female GMs and they were excellent in describing reality and roleplaying NPCs, far more than any male GM I have encountered. And they had no problems in trumping rules when it was necessary and cut rules lawyering off-top :)...huh, now I feel confused about my gender.
I've always focused on those things more than my fellow players have.
Heh, yeah, that is a stereotype I would rather do without. I am very rules oriented and probably not as good at RPing the NPCs as I should be. My husband is the exact opposite.
I would probably hesitate to run a game for strangers because I don't know what they'd expect, if they'd listen to me, etc. But with a group I've played with, no problem.
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I'm gonna be That Guy and make the comment about how physical sex and gender identity are not the same thing.
The only reason I'm never played a game GM'd by a female is because I'm the GM in my friend group. The one time my female flatmate was GMing a game I was unfortunately unavailable, but apparently she did very well. She was always the one most interested in describing actions and settings in detail and learning about the world she was in. Not because she's a woman, but because she's a writer/illustrator.
I'm gonna be That Guy and make the comment about how physical sex and gender identity are not the same thing.
OK, maybe I'm over-thinking this because it came directly after this comment, but why do you feel a need to say this? In what way is it relevant?
Two of the three girls in my group are GMs, have GMed, or are planning to GM. One is currently running Council of Thieves in our Monday game, finished up a short homebrew game before that, and has another she wants to run sometime in the future. The other has GMed several times in the past, prior to this current group's existence and back with my old group in Arizona, and is on the docket for sometime down the road when her schedule clears up some to run Legacy of Fire.
The third is the newest player to the group and to the game, and is still getting the basics down.
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If you are a female player, have you considered GMing, and if not, why not?** spoiler omitted **...
Hi Courtney,
Thank you so much for sharing your story! I totally understand what you mean about obsessing about proving yourself. At a regular game I played in at our gaming store, it took a really long time for the guys at the table to realize how knowledgeable and competent I actually was. I remember the night that one of the veteran players seamed to finally get it. You could almost see a light bulb going on above his head.I've been really lucky in my experience as a player so far playing with mostly guys. Everyone has been very respectful, and I would say have even dialed back the sexism at the table because I was there. Honestly, I am more bothered by being treated extra nice because I am a woman than in dealing with off color remarks. I'm pretty good with the set-down! I've also been really lucky in that both my brother and my husband, who I currently game with are totally supportive of me as a player and GM. I also don't really play sexy female characters, it just feels awkward to me, and that's not why I'm there. My husband has even tried flirting with me at the table, and it just embarrasses me! I'm pretty sure that's why he does it. ;)
I haven't had the opportunity to play with many other women, or girls. When I do have the chance, I am usually the more experienced player, so I try to encourage them as much as possible. As I said before, we have a 10 year old girl who plays in our PFS group, so I really try to model good role playing and tactics for her. Gaming is a fun, creative and challenging hobby! I think women make excellent gamers, and I'd like to inspire more of them to play.
Thanks again, really awesome post. :)
I'm gonna be That Guy and make the comment about how physical sex and gender identity are not the same thing.OK, maybe I'm over-thinking this because it came directly after this comment, but why do you feel a need to say this? In what way is it relevant?
I think it's relevant enough when talking about female GMs and stereotypes that do/don't apply to them to think about how female is actually defined, but this is a subject of specific relevance for me so I'm quick to jump on it when it presents itself.
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I think it's relevant enough when talking about female GMs and stereotypes that do/don't apply to them to think about how female is actually defined, but this is a subject of specific relevance for me so I'm quick to jump on it when it presents itself.I'm gonna be That Guy and make the comment about how physical sex and gender identity are not the same thing.OK, maybe I'm over-thinking this because it came directly after this comment, but why do you feel a need to say this? In what way is it relevant?
The thing is, I know that there are a number of cultural issues where I am much closer to the masculine stereotype than to the feminine. But I don't see myself as masculine or even androgynous. I don't appreciate the amount of gender absolutism that comes along with saying "Well, you could identify as any one of these other genders..." No. I don't want to. I want to be a woman who likes rules and tactics.
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Hey Mark,
That's fantastic that you're trying to get your daughters into gaming. I agree with you, girls are incredibly socially motivated, and your wife is right! It is entirely normal. :)
I actually just spoke to a group of 8th grade girls yesterday about why so few girls choose careers in field like engineering and the other hard sciences. Their main reason for not being interested in such professions is that they don't see women that they would aspire to be like working in those fields. In fact, for my generation, thee greatest predictor of whether or not a woman went into science or math, was whether or not they had a strong MALE role model in that field. Male, because frankly, there were even fewer female engineers and scientists to look up to when I was growing up! As en educator and a scientist, I am really trying to change this. I let them know that not only are they capable, but they are NEEDED in those industries.
I also try to let them know that it's cool to like hair and makeup and being a girl, and also be a bad A scientist....and gamer. :D I'm a big supporter of girls all around!
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This thread makes me very happy. Both Lamontia's brother and myself as her husband, have been very proud of her as she takes on more and more GMing.
Becoming a GM has been an intimidating process for me, as well. Being able to share the journey with her has been fantastic.
I think at times I am more chappy at the table when I perceive a possible gender bias than Lamontia is, just because she is so dang breezy and cool about it. I always want to make sure that she is looked upon as a great player or GM first, with gender having nothing to do with it. She makes this as easy as possible on me by being just as skilled, passionate and excited about our hobby as I am.
And yes Lamontia, I give you sass at the table just to see you blush.
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My questions are;As a player, what are your thoughts on female GMs?
We are just like guys, some of us are good, some are bad, most fall inbetween. In my personal experience I have noticed trends that more female GM's do certain things more than males or males do things more than females.
Have you had one? Ho was it?
Yes, twice. Once she was very good and very RP focused with very tight well thought out plots. Once it was horrible one of the all time worse GM's ever. She played blatant favoritism and was a complete control freak and took everything you said as a personal attack, but to be fair she was nuts to begin with.
Why do you think there are so few?
In my experience and this is just from what other female players have said when I tried to get them to try.
1) Lack of confidence.2) Lack of time.
3) Casual player (My experience has been percentage wise more female gamers are casual gamers than their male counterparts)
If you are a female GM, do you feel like you have been met with any additional challenges?
When I first started yes, the guys where less trusting and more quick to want to double check rules. Now that I have been doing it for awhile no.
Was it a leap for you to get your start?
For me personally no. I was nervous and a bit put off I keep getting second guessed but I was mentally ready for the what it took.
If you are a female player, have you considered GMing, and if not, why not?
Thanks, All!
Just curious! :)
Well I already GM and as for other female players I have tried to talk into giving it a try you can see my answer above on the reasons I get on why most of them are not interested in GMing.
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I have never had a female GM in Pathfinder, I have had one in Legend of the Five Rings and she was phenomenal. In my experience though the biggest issue for a female GM would be a female player. After my time in the military I have come to the conclusion that females find it hard to get along with each other. Its an unfortunate truth that I know can be hard to swallow.
Okay, I probably shouldn't even respond to this, because I think it is ridiculous...but I am going to for a few reasons; 1. I have heard this before from other male players, 2. I had ONE experience at a con that I think may be what propagates this idea, and 3. I have a suggestion for those male players that claim this is an issue.
First off, I think that this warrants addressing because it is an idea that I have heard several male players express. I personally do not think that it is true. I personally would like to have more female players at the table. While I am comfortable at a table of all men, it is definitely not my preference.
I did have an experience at a con where another female player seamed really not to be happy about me being there. I tried to engage her, but she kinda wanted none of me. I really think that this has to do with WHY she was at the table. If a girl is gaming because she likes feeling like she is a special flower, she is probably not going to be very happy when another girl is there to share the attention. That is not why I game. I don't need a bunch of guys to make me feel special, I have a husband for that. ;) I might also feel this way because I began gaming with my brother, so obviously I wasn't getting any special attention.
Finally, if you see this as a problem, stop perpetuating it. I'm not saying don't be nice to girls. Heck, I'm not even going to tell you not to flirt with them...OFF the table. If you are treating a female player differently during the game, you're not being nice. You are doing her a disservice in so many ways. For one, you're probably holding her back from being a better player. If you want to really be nice, help her grow her confidence and skills. Two, you're totally perpetuating the whole GM's girlfriend nonsense! Also, you're making her experience at the table be about the attention she gets, and not about the game.
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I think it's relevant enough when talking about female GMs and stereotypes that do/don't apply to them to think about how female is actually defined, but this is a subject of specific relevance for me so I'm quick to jump on it when it presents itself.I'm gonna be That Guy and make the comment about how physical sex and gender identity are not the same thing.OK, maybe I'm over-thinking this because it came directly after this comment, but why do you feel a need to say this? In what way is it relevant?
Your point is well taken, you just should have talked about 'gender stereotypes' rather than 'gender identity'. Unless you actually want to make the conversation about trans players and trans GMs. (I could go there, having had experience with both, but that really isn't what this conversation is about.)
What do I think of female players? Generally, they tend to have better hygiene than the male players. Generally, there are always exceptions.
What do I think of female GMs? I think they're uncommon, but neither better nor worse on average.
Have I ever played with female players? Yep. My college days we had 2 female players (GM's wife, my eventual best man's wife). I've played in games in the last few years where the female count was equal to the male count of players.
Have I ever had female players in the games I've GMd? I've had female players a couple of times over the years (including my wife who I introduced to gaming). I currently have a female player, I've had ToZ and his wife in my games, and my wife is about to start playing again tonight.
Have I ever had a female GM? Yes, I currently play in a game with a female GM. I'd put it the game on about a 6.5 or 7 out of 10. So on the upper side, but I don't think that has to do with the GMs gender, I think it's more just the person.
Is there anything weird about female players? In my experience, I've met more female gamers who are self-destructive than I have male gamers (Note I'm saying about 1/3 of female gamers I encounter are like this, while about 1/20th of the male gamers I've met are like this). By that, I mean they denigrate themselves way more than male gamers denigrate them. I've had one male gamer I've ever heard denigrate a female gamer for being female, and he was not invited back to a game. But quite a few of the female gamers I've encountered denigrate themselves as players or GMs. My own wife does this, and I have to keep reminding her that there's no reason for her to think she's a bad player because she's a female. She makes mistakes because she's not as experienced as everyone else. That's the only weird thing I've noticed over the years concerning female gamers, and I'm still baffled when I run into a smart, pleasant female gamer who denigrates herself about gaming just because she's female.
Yes, I answered some unasked questions, but I think they were pertinent to the thread. Honestly, I would love to see more female gamers. I think that would cut down on the 'I must be a bad gamer because I'm female and there's not many of us which must be because we're bad at it' attitude I get from some female gamers.
EDIT : Fixed a wording choice, I'd changed how I worded a sentence but left in the word Most from the old version, which changed the meaning of the sentence.
The genetic and social predispositions required to be a rippin' cool GM are gender free. I just wish I had either of them myself :-) Still, I've forced my GM'y presence upon many a gamer. What I lack in natural ability, I attempt to make up for in excitement and tasty snacks.
Growing up, most of us (as in my circle of gamers and associated communities there-of) didn't usually play with girls that weren't family or significant others because we had some social awkwardness about our persons that precipitated into packs of bookish male nerdlings clinging to one another for safety and gaming. It never felt like chauvinism to me, so all I can do now is hope I didn't drive any hopeful female gamers away in the 90's.
I think there is plenty of anecdotal evidence to support a change in the wind in terms of the percentage of female to male gamers. I can only hope that we also see a continuation of balancing the sexes in the GM seat. I can't wait to see what the culture looks like when my 6 year old daughter reaches 'game-store age.' There's no telling if she'll want to play RPGs as much as her old man as she gets older, but she's already a wiz at Rock-Paper-Scissors-Lizard-Spock...look out boyos, time to sharpen your game says I.
Lamontia, I'm just glad to know that you are excited about gaming in any capacity. The world needs more table-top gamers that can get others excited about playing, regardless of number of X chromosomes they might have.
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What do I think of female players? Generally, they tend to have better hygiene than the male players. Generally, there are always exceptions.
What do I think of female GMs? I think they're uncommon, but neither better nor worse on average.
Have I ever played with female players? Yep. My college days we had 2 female players (GM's wife, my eventual best man's wife). I've played in games in the last few years where the female count was equal to the male count of players.
Have I ever had female players in the games I've GMd? I've had female players a couple of times over the years (including my wife who I introduced to gaming). I currently have a female player, I've had ToZ and his wife in my games, and my wife is about to start playing again tonight.
Have I ever had a female GM? Yes, I currently play in a game with a female GM. I'd put it the game on about a 6.5 or 7 out of 10. So on the upper side, but I don't think that has to do with the GMs gender, I think it's more just the person.
Is there anything weird about female players? In my experience, I've met more female gamers who are self-destructive than I have male gamers (Note I'm saying about 1/3 of female gamers I encounter are like this, while about 1/20th of the male gamers I've met are like this). By that, I mean they denigrate themselves way more than male gamers denigrate them. I've had one male gamer I've ever heard denigrate a female gamer for being female, and he was not invited back to a game. But most of the female gamers I've encountered denigrate themselves as players or GMs. My own wife does this, and I have to keep reminding her that there's no reason for her to think she's a bad player because she's a female. She makes mistakes because she's not as experienced as everyone else. That's the only weird thing I've noticed over the years concerning female gamers, and I'm still baffled when I run into a smart, pleasant female gamer who denigrates herself about gaming just because she's female.
Yes, I answered...
Dude, women do the same thing with science, math and technology... I seriously hope I have daughters so I can teach them how awesome they are.
Dude, women do the same thing with science, math and technology... I seriously hope I have daughters so I can teach them how awesome they are.
Agreed.
Are there things women are better at based on biology? Absolutely. They're hard-wired in the brain to be more observant about non-verbal cues. They also have, in general, better linguistic predispositions. Does this mean every female is like that? No. Does it mean the average female is? Absolutely. Does that mean women are always better at communicating than men? Absolutely not. I've met too many who aren't. My wife likes to have conversations with herself in her head, and then ask my opinion on her conclusion. "So, what do you think about blue instead of green?"
Are there things men are better at than women? Absolutely. They're naturally stronger on average, and they naturally on average have better 3-d spatial senses. Does this mean every male is stronger and better at 3-d spatial senses than women? Not at all. Again, individuals are just that, individuals, and they are never average.
My wife does that too, the math thing. She's got an accounting degree and still beats herself up over math.
In general, men and women are pretty equal in the brains department, and the social interaction department. A lot of the issues (on both sides, males have just as many gender stereotype hangups as women) are the result of idiots they grew up listening too, not anything inherent in their gender.
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I started typing out a really long response to this thread, but then I accidentally refreshed the page. Ugh.
Anyway, to answer your question, I GM. A lot. In fact, I GM now more than I actually play (though I'm hoping to change that this weekend, but that's besides the point). I GM at conventions and for friends, and although this is a continuation of a conversation that's been happening on these message boards for a while, I often feel as if I have experiences -- particularly when GMing for strangers -- that are directly tied to my gender.
These experiences vary wildly, but the stories I recall best are positive. Have I had bad or weird experiences in which people (always players I don't know) have treated me differently or played in a way I suspect was not normal for them while I've GMed? Yep. You bet. However, GMing has ALWAYS been extremely fun for me. In summation, any bad or weird experiences are absolutely worth it for the great experiences GMing offers, including, you know, actually getting to run a game. :)
I think that the more women GM (and play in general!), the more male players will get used to playing with women at their table and as GMs. For a lot of male players, it's just really not an issue, but I can tell that there are those who just aren't used to it. They're not bad people at all, they just might be presented with a situation they didn't expect. I always keep that in mind, and I think doing so ensures everyone has fun.
So, in a very quick answer, I think the best way to dampen the not-so-good perceptions about women GMs is to get more women to play and GM. If you're a woman player and you're worried about being taken seriously as a GM, find people you trust to play with first. Or, if you do start feeling uncomfortable due to the way you're being treated as GM, speak up. Nine times out of ten, people don't even realize what they're doing. And if someone does realize it and they keep acting stupid, you'll probably start finding a lot of players coming to your defense.
I'm really excited to hear that people are talking about this. Lamontia, thank you for starting this thread! For those ladies who GM regularly, I'd love to play in your games. For those who just play and might be thinking about GMing, give it a try! See if it's something you like. If not, that's totally fine. If so, though, you can help us all as we try to break down some of those negative stereotypes about females in gaming in general.
Wow, OK, that was long, but hopefully it gets the point across!
Ive only ever had two female GM's I can remember, One was a stripper/bar tender and as a result was more aggressive and 'out there' than most women usually are. There was almost no difference between her an a male GM (sex jokes...trying to get laid...most of the shennanigans i usually try to avoid of glaze over while RPing.... I prefer my characters more like Ken Dolls.... Im not here to RP out repressed sexual fantasies)
The other was one of those people who tried to (and always did) kill off your character is she didnt like it. She did more character killing (as a DM AND a Player) than anything else, but I dont think that had anything to do with her being female.
We all just thought of that game like a DnD version of Paranoia, we were always dying and making something else.
I've had at least two female GMs. I didn't think any differently of them because of their gender. They are people too.
If someone thinks negatively of you, I wouldn't take it to heart. They might just be a bad person, and it's not your fault (unless you are a bad GM, but it doesn't sound like you are.) You should totally break the stereotype that girls can't game (or GM.)
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Dude, women do the same thing with science, math and technology... I seriously hope I have daughters so I can teach them how awesome they are.Agreed.
Are there things women are better at based on biology? Absolutely. They're hard-wired in the brain to be more observant about non-verbal cues. They also have, in general, better linguistic predispositions. Does this mean every female is like that? No. Does it mean the average female is? Absolutely. Does that mean women are always better at communicating than men? Absolutely not. I've met too many who aren't. My wife likes to have conversations with herself in her head, and then ask my opinion on her conclusion. "So, what do you think about blue instead of green?"
Are there things men are better at than women? Absolutely. They're naturally stronger on average, and they naturally on average have better 3-d spatial senses. Does this mean every male is stronger and better at 3-d spatial senses than women? Not at all. Again, individuals are just that, individuals, and they are never average.
My wife does that too, the math thing. She's got an accounting degree and still beats herself up over math.
In general, men and women are pretty equal in the brains department, and the social interaction department. A lot of the issues (on both sides, males have just as many gender stereotype hangups as women) are the result of idiots they grew up listening too, not anything inherent in their gender.
Something interesting on the spatial reasoning thing; research has shown that this difference in ability is probably more the result of nurture than it is nature. Spatial reasoning can be linked to the type of early play that male and female children tend to engage in (playing with LEGOs vs dolls). One university has also shown that offering a class in spatial reasoning to first year engineering students greatly improves the ability, so it certainly is something that can be taught and improved on. One of the things I really try to stress with the girls that I work with is that just because you don't get something right away, doesn't mean that you can't be good at it.
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Something interesting on the spatial reasoning thing; research has shown that this is difference in ability is probably more the result of nurture than it is nature.
Yeah, honestly, I don't think I buy that there are any differences between the genders' brains physiologically. I think the adage that women are better at language naturally is much more a result of the way we are raised and the cultures in which we grow up. I don't think either boys or girls are truly naturally better at one thing or another. Of course, this is my opinion. :)
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I totally disagree with this statement .Usually in my games players love to prank themselves and joking about their fails/faux pas/funny behavior.It's nothing offensive, yet all my female gamers asked me, as GM and rest of group don't invovle them in this situations unless they will start this pranks first. Did I wrong to agree with this ?
Okay, I probably shouldn't even respond to this, because I think it is ridiculous...but I am going to for a few reasons; 1. I have heard this before from other male players, 2. I had ONE experience at a con that I t
Finally, if you see this as a problem, stop perpetuating it. I'm not saying don't be nice to girls. Heck, I'm not even going to tell you not to flirt with them...OFF the table. If you are treating a female player differently during the game, you're not being nice. You are doing her a disservice in so many ways. For one, you're probably holding her...
I am not sure what you are asking me... But I think that what you are referring to is your female players asking to not be involves in something, and you respecting their wishes. If a male player asked you the same thing, you should respect his wishes as well.
I think we're talking about different things here, but, cheers anyway! :)
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Yeah, honestly, I don't think I buy that there are any differences between the genders' brains physiologically. I think the adage that women are better at language naturally is much more a result of the way we are raised and the cultures in which we grow up. I don't think either boys or girls are truly naturally better at one thing or another. Of course, this is my opinion. :)Something interesting on the spatial reasoning thing; research has shown that this is difference in ability is probably more the result of nurture than it is nature.
I agree with you, Amanda. A post earlier spoke about being talked over as a female player and GM, something that I also think is a nurture thing. Women are taught to be less aggressive in our society. They are also perceived much differently than men if they do speak up!
The talking over thing isn't a problem for me, I was raised in a family where you just talk louder if you want to be heard. So I have a pretty big voice! :D I do think though that I tend to approach rules debates differently than men do, I also am more likely to back down...although I am certainly changing this as my confidence builds.
I went to a panel at DragonCon last year that was headlined by Monty Cook. I believe the subject was on TSR itself. Also at the event, the only other panelist was writer/game designer Jean Rabe. I'll admit, I mainly went to see Monty Cook because hey, he's the guy who basically designed 3.0. Jean Rabe turned out to be far more interesting though, especially her being a woman in a very male dominated business. I was surprised at how blatant at times the misogyny and sexism could actually be.
In regards to GM, it's the same as players. It shouldn't matter what's between your legs.
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As a player, what are your thoughts on female GMs? Have you had one? Ho was it? Why do you think there are so few?
1. It is nice to hear your success story. Gratz :)
2. IMO gender should have no bearing on the GM or players . Unfortunately it does.
3. I have not played with a female GM. I play currently with a strong female player in my group. She has never Gamemastered, but has considered it. She has played consistently for almost 10 years.
4. Why so few? In a word...Testosterone. Even nerd/dork Testosterone can be rough to handle.
No matter who is in the GM chair respect has to be fundamental. The players must respect the GM and the GM must maintain control WITHOUT frustration. I feel anyone who wants to play or GM must deal with inherent things like authority issues at the table. I wonder if this can hold back people from taking the GM chair, especially female RPG players?
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I do think though that I tend to approach rules debates differently than men do, I also am more likely to back down...although I am certainly changing this as my confidence builds.
Yep, this has been an interesting thing for me to get over, too. Luckily, I haven't had anybody really vociferously argue about a ruling, but if they did and I was clearly right, I'd like to think I'd be able to strongly say so!
I'm curious, as a GM or player, have you ever had anybody try to steer you away from something you were doing? Like maybe you wanted to do something in character, and people were trying to get you to do something else (that maybe benefited them ...)? Or they wanted you to make a different decision in combat or something? I remember a lot of this in my REALLY early days of playing, and I wonder if it's a thing people find happening a lot, or if it was just something unique to a few specific players I knew.
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I do think though that I tend to approach rules debates differently than men do, I also am more likely to back down...although I am certainly changing this as my confidence builds.Yep, this has been an interesting thing for me to get over, too. Luckily, I haven't had anybody really vociferously argue about a ruling, but if they did and I was clearly right, I'd like to think I'd be able to strongly say so!
I'm curious, as a GM or player, have you ever had anybody try to steer you away from something you were doing? Like maybe you wanted to do something in character, and people were trying to get you to do something else (that maybe benefited them ...)? Or they wanted you to make a different decision in combat or something? I remember a lot of this in my REALLY early days of playing, and I wonder if it's a thing people find happening a lot, or if it was just something unique to a few specific players I knew.
My first long-term gaming experience was at my local game store in a group of anywhere from 8-12 long time male players. Note, I say long time players, not necessarily GOOD players, although some of them absolutely are. The campaign started out as mostly evil PCs, and before I started playing the GM said that some of the guys did some pretty shady and anti-woman stuff. I would say that for the most part, they were all very nice, and toned down the raping and pillaging on my account.
I started out as a 4th level Battle Oracle wielding a great sword, and they seriously pressured me to heal them CONSTANTLY. I think largely because I am female. I actually had one player yell at me after the game for not taking an AOO to stabilize him while I had an ogre up in my grill! This was one of the worst players at the table who seriously couldn't keep a character alive for more than a couple of sessions. The thing is, this guy would NEVER have done that to me if I were a guy. No. Way. I was kind of in shock, too, but I just said "Yeah, I'm totally going to heal you next time!"
Probably worse than the players though was how the GM treated me about it. If I took rounds to say, pop Shield of Faith, Bull Strength and Enlarge Person, he would mock me for being a selfish oracle. If I healed another PC (that actually brought value to the game), he would call me Cleric, and basically make fun of me for that as well. What's wrong with being a Cleric, anyway? To compound the situation, the GM awarded experience based almost solely on kills. So you would get 500 if you soloed an enemy, 1/2 if you worked with one other person, then after that it went "party" and was divided up. There was no experience awarded for healing. If I spent a session healing and buffing my guts out and basically making it possible for the PCs that got solo kills to to their job, I would get maybe an additional 200 EP for "role playing". It was a joke, so I just stopped healing people. I also vowed to NEVER play a healer in that group again.
The GM also kept threatening to take away my powers because he felt I was playing closer to neutral than good (I was chaotic good). For one, Oracles don't work like that. Two, I WORSHIP GORUM! He seriously doesn't care if I am not a good person, as long as I am killing things.
UGH. Just writing about it pisses me off.
As a player, what are your thoughts on female GMs? Have you had one?
One. In the early 80's in college (Virginia Tech)
Ho[w] was it?
First of all, it wasn't D&D, it was T&T (Tunnels and Trolls). Not exactly what I would have chosen, but you take what you can get. I think her choice of major had far more effect than her gender.
She was a vet student. Her house rule changes to poisons, diseases and and animals were ... excruciatingly detailed. My character had to have his war-horse specially bred, but that's another story in itself.
She was also an SCA bard. So there was way more pseudo-medieval courtly posturing than in most other games I'd been in.
Thoughts:
If there's already something that squicks you a little bit, such as male players playing female characters (or vice-versa), if you're not familiar with your GM, that can exacerbate the (perceived) problem. I do recall one fellow who would sometimes play a female character, but never in Cathy's game. When asked, he said he was afraid he'd "get it wrong" and be called out that his (female) character wouldn't act that way because women don't act that way.
EDIT: fixed bad quote tags (stupid square brackets)
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Lamontia's story above still chaps me to this day. As her husband, it can sometimes be a frustrating and blood-pressure-raising struggle to make sure that in supporting her, I'm not actually preventing her from fighting her own battles.
As a husband, I want to just straight up throw down on anyone who has an issue with her. But, as a pathfinder enthusiast who is just as passionate about growing the hobby as she is, I realize that I need to walk a fine line when it comes to support.
She's a smart, outgoing woman who is more than capable of standing up to anything that she comes across. Yet it is my inclination to step to the front and get caveman primal with anything that is disrespecting her as a player or as a woman...or both. That's not necessarily the best response to a given situation.
Luckily, she is great at making this easy on me, by being knowledgeable, calm and extrovertedly charismatic to the people around her.
Still, occasionally it can be a struggle. I have a feeling some other husbands/boyfriends/significant others can elaborate on this feeling better than I can.
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Lamontia-
IMO it was the for the best you got away from that group. It is good you were not tuned away from tabletop RPG because of it.
Yeah, it worked out that my RotRL campaign started running at the same time, so there was no need for that game anymore. Honestly, I learned a TON about combat mechanics...and building the most min-max character possible at level 4 (which is not as useful). Overall, it was still fun, but I just got fed up!
I am much happier playing in the home game we host every other week, and PFS on Sundays.
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My first long-term gaming experience was at my local game store in a group of anywhere from 8-12 long time male players. Note, I say long time players, not necessarily GOOD players, although some of them absolutely are. The campaign started out as mostly evil PCs, and before I started playing the GM said that some of the guys did some pretty shady and anti-woman stuff. I would say that for the most part, they were all very nice, and toned down the raping and pillaging on my account.
I started out as a 4th level Battle Oracle wielding a great sword, and they seriously pressured me to heal them CONSTANTLY.
Wow. I totally agree that it's best you got away from this group. I had some players a long time ago who had a habit of pressuring me to heal them (while I was a 3.5 warmage ...), probably, as you noted, because I was female. I didn't have nearly the negative experience you did, though. Mostly, it sounds like the people you played with were jerks with a capital J. Your GM made it worse.
Anyway, I'm very glad you didn't let that experience turn you off of the hobby for good. You and Lamontius should play with my husband and I sometime! Do you guys go to Gen Con, by chance?
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I am a female player, have been playing since I was 12 (for 12 years now), and I have been DM for 2 years now. The group I DM are relatively new to the game (three had played before, two hadn't) and consists of three girls and two guys. I know the rules far better than any of them, that helps for me to feel confident. If they disagree I let them look it up.
I wanted to be a DM so I could play my own story and create fun stuff, like cities and NPC's. But you need to "lead" a group to do that and wanting to do that took some time. I think I'm an solid DM, I'm good at role playing NCP's and running smooth battles. I'm also good at making puzzels. Not really good that creating ambiance and describing surrounding. (I still can get a lot better I think.)
The two DM's I play with are both male. (I don't know any other female Dm/Gm's.) One makes his own story, and is brilliant at making up communities, city's and systems. His NPC's are often mean and sarcastic, the fighting encounters vary. The plot takes to long but is very well worked out (much better than mine) and has al lot of in world connections and history.
The other (my father) is very good, very well rounded. He play's pre-written adventures. (Wich he sometimes modifies.)
Overall I think the reputation off the game might attract more men than women, but the game isn't more suited for one than for the other.
The only difference I noticed that I can link to gender is that my dungeon has more cute guy's. :p
On the forum talk to me like I'm a guy (meaning they call me him, or he, I find that strange since I'm named after a small songbird.
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Wow. I totally agree that it's best you got away from this group. I had some players a long time ago who had a habit of pressuring me to heal them (while I was a 3.5 warmage ...), probably, as you noted, because I was female. I didn't have nearly the negative experience you did, though. Mostly, it sounds like the people you played with were jerks with a capital J. Your GM made it worse.
Anyway, I'm very glad you didn't let that experience turn you off of the hobby for good. You and Lamontius should play with my husband and I sometime! Do you guys go to Gen Con, by chance?
We've just started going to cons this year, actually! I will have to look into Gen Con. That would be fantastic!
I just checked out your profile a few minutes ago, and I have to say that you're pretty awesome! :) I just bought your PFS scenario and I'm looking forward to reading it and GMing it at some point! Also, what contributions did you make to the Animal Archive? I am thinking about running a Carnivalist Rogue with an Ape companion in a Skull and Shackles campaign Lamontius will be running. Much to his chagrin I am determined to have a monkey with a gun. haha. I just keep telling him, I'll play by the rules, but it's totally happening! ;)
Oh god the gun monkey.
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Yeah, honestly, I don't think I buy that there are any differences between the genders' brains physiologically. I think the adage that women are better at language naturally is much more a result of the way we are raised and the cultures in which we grow up. I don't think either boys or girls are truly naturally better at one thing or another. Of course, this is my opinion. :)Something interesting on the spatial reasoning thing; research has shown that this is difference in ability is probably more the result of nurture than it is nature.
There is some evidence that (specifically spatial ability) is related more to the brain's hormonal environment, rather than actual gender. I've seen indications, for instance, that FTM transsexuals improve on tests of spatial ability once starting on testosterone therapy. But that sort of thing gets even trickier to measure because brain structure is plastic and everyone's hormonal levels shift over time.
You hang out with enough transfolk and it becomes indisputable that there are more gendered differences in brain structure than we really want to admit -- but also that they're fuzzier and more loosely tied to gender than we think they are. (Which is to say, that more of the strong generalizations you can make are only on the order of 55-60% true, which means you've got almost as many exceptions to the rule as you have examples of it.)
Really, once you start trying to tease out the effects of natal gender from hormonal influence from social conditioning from gender identity, it gets hard to make any definitive generalizations about what causes what. Much better to stick to personal observations.
As a player, what are your thoughts on female GMs? Have you had one? Who was it? Why do you think there are so few?
I have had several female GMs over the course of my gaming life (which I think is currently holding at 30 years). Since I started PFS organized play, I know two female GMs in particular who have stood out. One is Kristie, the VC for Clearwater, FL and the other is my wife. I would judge both of them to be superior to "the average GM" based on my experiences in PFS over the last two years.
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This thread makes me very happy. Both Lamontia's brother and myself as her husband, have been very proud of her as she takes on more and more GMing.
Becoming a GM has been an intimidating process for me, as well. Being able to share the journey with her has been fantastic.
I think at times I am more chappy at the table when I perceive a possible gender bias than Lamontia is, just because she is so dang breezy and cool about it. I always want to make sure that she is looked upon as a great player or GM first, with gender having nothing to do with it. She makes this as easy as possible on me by being just as skilled, passionate and excited about our hobby as I am.
And yes Lamontia, I give you sass at the table just to see you blush.
Bro I have to admit for just a moment I wondered if Lamontia was your sockpuppet.
I have a female player who GMs for a different group. She's a really good GM. I asked her to GM Kingmaker for our group after the current campaign because I wanted someone who would get it right.
Mrs. Bell will mention from time to time that she has thought about trying her hand at GMing. I encourage her but she hasn't made the leap yet.
There are some fascinating books I can point you towards that indicates there is a huge socialisation element in the way that men and women develop - and that just about every 'difference' can be traced back to them. There are (probably) a few small differences - however, those are magnified many times over by social behaviours of role models ... still that is not what we are here for.
I have played with female players and female GMs, although they have been in a large minority. My wife is a regular player in our TT games and a very occasional GM.
She is a careful player, not big on tactical combat nor build optimisation - but then nor am I. We both started playing well before those became the norm for D&D style games. As a GM she is often tentative - BUT she doesn't do it enough to get really comfortable with it (she prefers to play)
Online (I started playing online at PBW when it started about 14 years ago and moved to RPoL later) - I have had a couple of female GMs. Both were strong and experienced GMs and ran games as good as anyone else. Each had their own style - as do all of the other (male) GMs I play with.
I don't run evil games - nor do I play in them for long. I play this hobby to be a hero, not to be a jerk. And I don't want to play with jerks - anyone behaving badly towards any gamer at MY table will be required to change they behaviour or leave - After all my table is in my house :)
If I get caught up in a group like that - I will leave. And tell them why.
Jump right in to GMing please! The world needs more people willing to run a game for everyone else. Use an AP or scrounge up an old Dungeon Magazine if you're nervous about coming up with an adventure completely from scratch. Nothing wrong with re-skinning those things either, who says Jade Regnant can't be a group of Arctic halflings with sled dogs using strangely similar rules to Caravan rules.
...
I might do that now.
Your point is well taken, you just should have talked about 'gender stereotypes' rather than 'gender identity'. Unless you actually want to make the conversation about trans players and trans GMs. (I could go there, having had experience with both, but that really isn't what this conversation is about.)I think it's relevant enough when talking about female GMs and stereotypes that do/don't apply to them to think about how female is actually defined, but this is a subject of specific relevance for me so I'm quick to jump on it when it presents itself.I'm gonna be That Guy and make the comment about how physical sex and gender identity are not the same thing.OK, maybe I'm over-thinking this because it came directly after this comment, but why do you feel a need to say this? In what way is it relevant?
Duly noted. Wording is an important thing to watch.
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I had a female GM for a long standing Campaign back in college. On thing that really stood out to me was believable female NPCs. Most male GM's shy away from to much dialogue when the NPC is female or if they do engage in RPing females tend to be very characture in their representations or keep things on a very buisness like level. They definitley shy away from themes like Romance and the like which is not an unreasonable stance to take considering how uncomfortable that could get. It brought a more RP heavy element to the table in the groups downtime that I really enjoyed. We always were big on RP within the frame work of the plot but there was a broader tendancy to stay in character at camp or on the trail etc...