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Oh, yeah, the OP.
Re: Assassin classes being evil.
Assassin:
You aren't just a person killing somebody for pay (and perhaps purpose), but somebody doing it at least once just to gain Assassin abilities (CRB) (IMO it's a sacrifice). One of those abilities includes True Death (Su) and another is Angel of Death (Su), both of which are pretty nasty and 'Death Knell'-ish.
Prof. Assassin doesn't have those supernatural connections to death, and can be done with a purpose, even if there's pay.
Red Mantis Assassin: You are worshiping an evil bug. Nuf' said.
Let the guy have it.
An Assassin PrC is a true believer in the murder of others.
An Assassin profession may be just punching a clock. :)
I am recalling those old cartoons where you see the 'good guys' and 'bad guys' literally punching into work before engaging in their activities, and punchcarding back out at the end of the day with a, "See you tomorrow, Ralph."
-j
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The thing to come away from this thread with is, Profession (Assassin) has not been called out as disallowed the way Prof (Torturer) was. You can put it down as your day job, but expect table variation and some disapproving looks from people. Be mature, and if a GM or someone else has an issue about it, pick a different profession for a scenario. What someone has on their character sheet basically for flavor is not something worth getting worked up over.
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My question to the OP would be why not just take Prof. Mercenary? I mean you still get to do all the murder hobo things you want without the icky side effects or feels by saying, "I am an assassin for pay". This would also alleviate possibilities of GMs not agreeing with that choice or judging you hard for choosing it.
That way you know, and can write up a little blurb in your character description, that you can and are willing to take a life for pay but with the caveat that it is just not out of indiscriminate want and destruction.
It is the actions that make you and turn you to evil not the sheer fact that it is evil. Just something things are more easily able and willing to lead you to that dark side then others.
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It is not a spoiler though... You are not allowed to be evil. The caveat to that is that you can have a dark side... IE necromancy, cause harm spell etc etc... It is about how the spell is used that determine if it is an evil act.
For instance... If I use the spell Interrogate (Evil descriptor spell) to pull the information from someone to save the country or the pathfinder society that is far from an evil act.
Another example would be a cleric casting cure moderate wounds (good descriptor spell) and channel positive energy to heal members of group that is murdering, raping and destroying the country side does not make him good because he is casting good aligned spells.
The point is it is the actions of the player/npc that determines if the character is evil not just the parts that build the character.
All I was saying in my post was to get the same fluff for your character and with less of the drama that you can see coming up this post, as well as others, its better off to go with Prof Mercenary or something to the same effect.
Here you go
The Michael Brock post explaining that.
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It might be interesting if there were some Boon or Prestige Vanity that allowed you to make an attack roll for your Day Job (it would have to be expensive/hard to get/have some kind of catch since a lot of characters would REALLY benefit from such a thing, and I'd make it leave out bonuses from the character's weapons, other magic items, or feats like Weapon Focus).
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I've thought about this.
If I had a character try to make a Day Job roll with Profeesion (assassin) I would ask, in a casual tone, "Who are you assassinating for the money?"
If they say something like "A mad cleric of Urgathoa who's been sticking diseased cats in the wells around Kaer Maga" then I'd let it stand. We could joke about how such a dangerous job only nets you 10 gp.
If they say "A man with an attractive spouse my client would like to court," then that would be an evil action and require an atonement.
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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The reason Torturer is specifically (and uniquely) banned, is because people wouldn't stop arguing that they could use profession(torturer) and not be evil:
Since folks seem to want to force the issue, or be argumentative about it, I will go ahead and clarify that Profession (Torturer) is specifically illegal. There are thousands of other options to choose from. If you desperately need to play only a Profession (torturer) character, save it for a home game. And yes, I will add it to the FAQ since I am sure that is the next question that will come up.If you want to make sure assassin gets added to the list, continuing this thread is probably a good start.
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It would require a warning from the DM first. And then wouldn't stop the check.
"Who are you killing?
"Orphan matron?
"Possible evil act. Who are you killing?
"Some random guy?
"Evil act, who are you killing?
"Bonesaw Puppykicker? Apparently its a contract from druids local 704...
"There we go. 10 gold.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Yeah, those same arguments came up in the torture thread.
"My guy only tortures people when it is a last resort and there is imminent danger."
No. If you are making money at it, and you don't expect to take a penalty to your roll, that means you are doing whatever job comes along.
Maybe if you want to say "I'd like to make a profession (assassin) check, and I'll take a -5 on the roll because I only take jobs where it isn't an evil act" We can discuss it. But that seems to really get into GM discretion territory.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I agree with BNW that it would get a warning. I would be a little harder-nosed.
"I'd like to roll my profession (assassin) day job.
"Fantastic. What do you get. and oh, by the way, who's your target?"
"I get a 23. And I dunno. Just some guy."
"Killing just some guy for 20 gold would be an evil act, requiring an atonement. Did you want to follow through with that assignment?"
"Do I get to pick another attempt? Or maybe roll my craft (pottery) skill instead?
Nope. But you do get to be edgy, which I imagine is the point.
Sigfred, The Day Job is a net gain sort of roll. So I imagine someone spending 9980 gp for equipment and informants and bribes to off the Governor of a Razmiran town, to earn the 10,000 gp reward.
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I don't mind a Profession roll, I mean, you could be be a guild analyst or something, but Craft (murder), now that would be asking for it.
I don't get the latest obsession with assassins anyhow. Creedverse(or is it Ezioverse?) isn't PFS Golarion. Murdering people is evil. Playing an evil character is fine, it's just not possible in PFS.
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It would require a warning from the DM first. And then wouldn't stop the check.
"Who are you killing?
"Orphan matron?
"Possible evil act. Who are you killing?
"Some random guy?
"Evil act, who are you killing?
"Bonesaw Puppykicker? Apparently its a contract from druids local 704...
"There we go. 10 gold.
O_O wait what did I do?
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I agree with BNW that it would get a warning. I would be a little harder-nosed.
"I'd like to roll my profession (assassin) day job.
"Fantastic. What do you get. and oh, by the way, who's your target?"
"I get a 23. And I dunno. Just some guy."
"Killing just some guy for 20 gold would be an evil act, requiring an atonement. Did you want to follow through with that assignment?"
"Do I get to pick another attempt? Or maybe roll my craft (pottery) skill instead?
Nope. But you do get to be edgy, which I imagine is the point.
Sigfred, The Day Job is a net gain sort of roll. So I imagine someone spending 9980 gp for equipment and informants and bribes to off the Governor of a Razmiran town, to earn the 10,000 gp reward.
So would you go straight to evil for a single act?
Or would you just mark an evil act on their chronicle sheet and then require an atonement once they've committed several of those?
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Andrew,
The issue of the day job is hypothetical, but I've tried "writing notes for future GMs" on other topics.
Here's a big ol' can of worms: marking an evil act on Chronicle sheets does not work. GMs don't check.
How do I know? Because, since Gen Con 2013, when I mark a character as evil, here's what I write:
"Future GMs: This PC has committed an evil act without atonement. If you are a GM reading this, please notify Chris Mortika at ... " email address.
Perhaps all those PCs immediately retire. Or perhaps the player just removes / replaces the Chronicle sheet. Or maybe other GMs think that's a hassle. Or maybe I'm the only person to regularly check the Chronicle sheets of the PCs at the table for just such messages. But whatever the reason, I've never gotten any responses.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Chris, I haven't had to deal with the situation yet. But what I would do is if someone committed an evil act, *then* I would look through his last ten chronicle sheets for notes from other GMs. It there were notes in the last ten sheets, I would make him shift. If there were not, then I would make my own note on the chronicle sheet and go on.
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I have a PC who has Profession: Courtasuan. (I don't think I need go into detail on the board about what this is?). Yes, I have played for Judges who find this Profession mildly offensive. I don't play it up at thier table. Some Judges even consider my PC to be evil (one called my PC a "Home wrecker", and several other things I will not repeat here) or to have an evil profession.
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But you know what? She plays great, and I have a lot of fun playing her - even with her "evil" ways.
I have a similar character. He used perform (escort) for his day job rolls. (was more advantageous for a sorcerer) Nowadays he purchased a caravan and uses his +22 to bluff to convince guards/magistrates etc that he is operating a "totally legitimate transportation" business that just happens to only have young, attractive people on board, who may or may not have signed a legally binding contract in return for money, training and safe transportation to a reputable bordello or harem. The looks I get when I explain his business is priceless at times. I got accused of being an evil slaver, but it's not slavery it's a legal agreement and being LN they couldn't argue. Still some fantastic RP has happened between me and my friends Liberty Edge Paladin lol.
The thing is, that the profession skill allows you to make money in a certain business.
The profession (cook) means you can make money working in a kitchen, but not everyone in the kitchen is really cooking stuff. Some are cooking, some are making salads, some are putting the food on the platter. Yet all of them should use profession (cook).
Profession (courtesan) might be the right skill for the madame or bawd or however it's called in addition to the prostitute. In the same vain it could be possible to use the profession (assassin) skill for other things than killing people. You might be a cleaner, give murderers alibis, be an agent for assassins etc. You make money off the business of assissination, you do not have to do the killing yourself.
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Andrew,
The issue of the day job is hypothetical, but I've tried "writing notes for future GMs" on other topics.
Here's a big ol' can of worms: marking an evil act on Chronicle sheets does not work. GMs don't check.
How do I know? Because, since Gen Con 2013, when I mark a character as evil, here's what I write:
"Future GMs: This PC has committed an evil act without atonement. If you are a GM reading this, please notify Chris Mortika at ... " email address.
Perhaps all those PCs immediately retire. Or perhaps the player just removes / replaces the Chronicle sheet. Or maybe other GMs think that's a hassle. Or maybe I'm the only person to regularly check the Chronicle sheets of the PCs at the table for just such messages. But whatever the reason, I've never gotten any responses.
I see two issues with this.
1) why do you need to be contacted? If another mark is made later, you'll notice when you look again the next time the player does something evil at your table.
2) by not marking evil a few times first, and going straight to atonement or evil, you aren't following the guidelines in the guide. If they truly don't work, then lets try to fix them. But ignoring them isn't really the answer.
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Being an accessory to murder, or any other form of evil, doesn't clear you of the fact that you are essentially an enabler. If you're making it possible for a murder to happen, a murderer to escape, then you're not clear of the moral implications of the act itself.
We're now up to the entire society. Unless you've never healed an andoran?
