I am talking about some of the content for the Gestalt System. Such as the 2 Side-Bars dealing with Increased Numbers of classes (Such as 3 or 4 Classes instead of just 2) & how somethings are handled.
I am talking about some of the content for the Gestalt System. Such as the 2 Side-Bars dealing with Increased Numbers of classes (Such as 3 or 4 Classes instead of just 2) & how somethings are handled.
Hmmm, got it, sorry about that, then. Have you looked it up in the book proper? As I understand, most, if not all, the content in sidebars are not OGC, so you simply can't find it in any SRD. Besides, WotC didn't "embed" errata into their books: if something as simple as a spelling error was found, it would be found in all editions. Errata was put exclusively as online PDF addons. They didn't strive, like Paizo does, to correct the book every time it was reprinted.
I know that. That is why it shocked me when I noticed it. I only have access to the 2nd Version not the 1st. But the one who originally taught me 3.5/Pathfinder has the 1st Version. This Guy has so many books it is nuts. He has a 20x20 foot office lined with book shelves loaded with RPG Books.
I know that. That is why it shocked me when I noticed it. I only have access to the 2nd Version not the 1st. But the one who originally taught me 3.5/Pathfinder has the 1st Version. This Guy has so many books it is nuts. He has a 20x20 foot office lined with book shelves loaded with RPG Books.
What exactly are you looking for? I have the first printing on my lap right now, and the only sidebar on the Gestalt section (pgs 72-76) is the one regarding Fractional Base Bonuses. Everything about Gestalt proper is in the main text, and I don't see anything about more than 2 classes at the same level on a gestalt combination.
Really... Hmm... I have my friends and it has a Small Side Bar at the Bottom of Page 75 dealing with multiple Classes. It basically says you should increase the APL by .5 per additional class.
So a Party of 4 Gestalt-3 Characters would be APL+1.5 instead of APL+1.
Really... Hmm... I have my friends and it has a Small Side Bar at the Bottom of Page 75 dealing with multiple Classes. It basically says you should increase the APL by .5 per additional class.
So a Party of 4 Gestalt-3 Characters would be APL+1.5 instead of APL+1.
Hmmm, I have nothing like that here. It only talks about challenge rating and how to challenge a party of gestalt characters, and a little bit on PrCs. Nothing on the so-called "tristalt" or "tetratalt" variants. Either your friend has a newer printing, not older, or I have no idea what's going on. My book certainly isn't missing content.
Anyone say gunslinger monk? Wis + 10 to unarmored AC, wis to grit, unarmed strike to threatening attackers...
Ah! His is a British Printing! Weird...
Alright, so I stumbled upon this little thread roughly a month late. I'd like to throw some suggestions in the mix:
Barbarian 5/ Oracle 5/ Rage Prophet 10 || Two-Handed Fighter 20
Make sure to take the amplified rage teamwork feat as well as the standard fighter stuff. You're immune to the fatigue of rage and you get double str bonus to attacks and double the effects of power attack in addition to casting as an oracle. It's pretty ridiculous.
Paladin 20 || Inquisitor 20 --> Make sure to take the anger inquisition for inquisitor so you can rage like a barbarian. GG. Evil beware.
I spend way too much time working on gestalt builds because I think they're extremely cool... perhaps the most overpowered gestalt build I've stumbled upon is the Kensai Magus 20 || Wizard (or sage bloodline sorc) 7 (or 8) / EK 10 / Fighter 3 (or 2). You are taxed on your magus arcana to get broad study, but other than that... I mean... The 20th level kensai ability combined with the close range arcana combined with the magus spells critting on the threat range of the weapon. If you're dervish dancing or using an agile weapon, you're talking about x4 crits on the weapon, x2 on the spells on a 15-20 auto confirming. When you crit you get to cast another spell from ek, which you can deliver through your weapon for an extra attack as well. Not to mention you're, y'know, a wizard.
Take the Rage Domain instead.
It's like the Anger Inquisition, but just flat out superior.
@Atarlost: That is incorrect.
You can't take 2 things that raise the same thing. That means no Mystic Theurge with Cleric and Wizard. But you can be a:
Cleric 5/Wizard5/Mystic Theurge10/:Fighter20
That falls under GM fiat. So not all GMs run it that way.
By R.A.W.: You can use it in the way I stated.
The Reason?: The Prestige Class increases Casting just as the normal Class does and therefore wouldn't stack.
Cleric 5/Wizard5/Mystic Theurge10 // Fighter20
Is blatantly not legal in gestalt. If you wanted to do Wiz 10 // Cleric 10 and then have mystic theurge take up BOTH sides of the gestalt (which is patently inferior to just being Wiz 20 // Cleric 20, btw) it's still technically not allowed since MT is outright prohibited, but a DM might figure it's ok.
The whole point of gestalt is to play two classes. Prestige Classes that let you already play two classes stacked in gestalt w/ another class is not fair and against the spirit of the rules. Not to mention against the RAW as well, as quoted.
The key word you are missing is "Should be prohibited" NOT "These are prohibited".
By R.A.W.: You can't stack 2 identical Features. The build I posted doesn't do that.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Casts Thread Necromancy
_______________________
Anyone here has any good/funny Gestalt ideas with the Advanced Class guide out now?
Warpriest/Empyreal Sorcerer, for swift Action Sorcerer Casting without MAD
Swashbuckler/Sorcerer, you don't wear much armor and need CHA anyway
Vivisectionist/Slayer, could be quite a beastly flanker
|
Classes that sit halfway between other classes like Magus or Bard or Inqusitor are doable with gestalt, you just have to pick another class that compliments the character's role with those classes. It can be a little difficult since they're already jack-of-all-trade classes.Well, the thing that I like about Magus/Inquisitor/Bard ect. is that they have things that they can do as a swift action or some other ability that helps their action economy.
A Fighter/Wizard for example has a ton of stuff, but his action economy is terrible.
The Kensai/Wizard, on the other hand, is both a melee combatant and a full caster in the same round. The only hardship is feats; do you put them towards spell DC's or melee?
Packmaster Hunter - Gestalts well with other Animal Companion Classes to raise your own small army.
Blood Conduit Bloodrager/Brawler - could be pretty cool
|
Druid/Summoner
Full divine and good arcane casting, animal companion, eidolon, more summons than you could ever possibly need, pretty good saves, decent HP, cast in light armor, wild shape, lots of class-based perks.
MAD? Not really. Summoner actually doesn't even really need a super high charisma. It doesn't affect the eidolon and most summoner spells are buffs. Just keep it high enough to cast at each level, maybe get some bonus spells. Heck, Druid spells are the same way: the best ones are the buffs and utility options. No need for 20+ wisdom. Put those points into physical stats so you can get in there between your two buffed pets and do some damage!
|
Bloodrager/Skald might work.
He's still based on Str and Cha. Good Fort and Will. Can cast in rage and gets all the rage powers he needs.
On top of that a good number of spells per day from two quite different lists.
Crazy guy though.
-
Slayer/Cleric is a no-brainer, all good saves, superb warrior, loads of spells including self-buffs.
Where would I find the information on how a Gestalt actually works? My son and his friend want to tinker around with some Pathfinder, and I was thinking perhaps this would be the way to go to make them powerful enough to two-man most scenarios.
*waits for the Kineticist drops*
That'll be a sweet gestalt option ^_^
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Well I just read this over at GITP, I thought it was relevant.
I'm always a fan of Magus/Wizard myself, it just has the action economy breaking beauty that I need in my life.
A few of my ideas:
Kensai Magus 20|| Mindchemist Alchemist 20(+Psychonaut for good measure)
You don't gain much in BAB or HD, but you do have perfect saves. Thanks to the power of Grand Cognatogen and Awakened Intellect, It's entirely possible (though insanely difficult and requiring the slightest bit of cheese) to have a +20 INT modifier. For a Kensai that is a +20 AC, +20 Initiative (with the ability to roll a natural 20 every time), +20 attacks of opportunity, +20 damage against flat-footed targets, etc. Combine this with the whip feat chain and a few spells(enlarge person + Long Arms) and you can threaten out to at least 25 feat, which is basically a full attack whenever someone wants to get adjacent to you, thanks to your many AoO. Add to this some Swashbuckler deeds through your "Arcane Deed" Arcana (Evasive, Precise Strike, Opportune Parry and Riposite) plus some cool things from the Psychonaut (Moment of Prescience!) and you basically never get hurt, while putting out tremendous damage and debuff potential (with Frostpite chain). For more fun, use discoveries like Eternal Potion on a Potion of Bestow Grace, or stuff like Preserve organs to prevent tremendous damage when that natural 20 finally gets through. But really, the Alchemist extract list pretty much perfectly fills up the holes in the magus spell list, and with a few discoveries you actually get access to higher level spells. In fact, the bit of cheese I mentioned earlier involved using the Arcana Spell Blending steal the spells needed to call a Succubus for her Profane Gift (for that last +2 INT) and then just making an Alchemical Simulacrum of her while she's trapped. That way, you avoid pretty much all avenues for your GM to F*** you over because of it, and get a free Profane Gift giving machine! You could also do the same with Efretti and wishes, but even I think that's a step too far.
Skirnir Magus 20|| Ranger 20 (
Perfect BAB, perfect saves. If you take the TWF combat style you can take all of the TWF feats without investing in DEX, and when you eventually qualify for Shield Master, you can dual weild 2 Heavy Shields with ZERO of the TWF drawbacks. With Instant Enemy prepared and Broad Study for Ranger spells, you can get quite a few ludicrous attack bonuses against your enemies, which further makes TWF even better. Plus you can go down the Dimensional Dervish feat line and be the ultimate TWF. With the Ranger's utility based spell list (even better with Woodland Skirmisher and/or Spirit Ranger) and the Magus's offensive spell list, you are a powerful jack of all trades. As an added corollary, the Magus can also qualify for feats like Missle Shield, Ray Shield and Teleport Tactician after taking the Disruptive & Spellbreaker Arcana, to truly make it difficult for spellcasters to target you. Better still, you can add the "reflection" shield ability to your shields literally anytime, effectively making you immune to spells!
Paladin 12/Monk 4/Champion of Irori 4 || Life Oracle w/ Wrecker Curse 20
The ultimate healbot. Lay on Hands and Channel Energy are one thing, but with the Champion of Irori's ability to turn ki points into Lay on Hands, and the feat Ki Channel that allow you to turn Channel Energy into Ki restoration, you effectively have infinite Channel Energy. Add on passive healing abilities like Life Link, 9th level spell casting, great AC, the ability to turn attackers weapons to dust tons of immunities and great combat potential (it's possible to get max unarmed damage with the Monastic Legacy feat and some Robes, plus you get 2 free attacks on a 20 BAB flurry). To really make this work though, you pretty much need the Guided enchantment.
Antipaladin 12/Demoniac 8 || Dark Tapestry Oracle of the Black Blood 20
Originally designed as the counterpart brother to the inward focused Paladin of Irori, this cosmic horror makes just as much use of an Amulet of Mighty Fists, but via the Natural Attacks of whatever form he finds suiting. (He also worships Haagenti, for those of you who wonder). Combining pure power with spellcasting, he's an Oradin you hope to never meet, assuming you could recognize him, of course.
Spellbreaker Inquisitor 20 || Cleric 8/Holy Vindicator 4/Envoy of Balance 8
The Ultimate Channel Energy user. Capable of Channeling Positive & Negative energy equally, and gaining AC equivalent to his level because of it (Vindicator's Shield). Such double mastery truly shines when using Variant Channeling, but in order to get any good ones, you pretty much have to make up your own God and get it approved by the GM (A neutral god of war brings life and death to all life forms everywhere, hey, what do you mean I can't take the Travel and Death Domains with the Strength and Weapons portfolio?). That said, even without cheese, you're still more than capable of combat with ludicrous AC, 9th level spells, and a constant Mind Blank effect with the ability to be immune to a whole school of magic.
Other concepts include:
Skuld 20|| Bloodrager 20: Rage all day, every day. So many rage powers too, with the Primalist Archetype. Your ability to buff yourself is downright legendary.
Sacred Fist 20|| Master of Many Styles 20: Learn ALL the styles!
Gunslinger 20 || Swashbuckler 20: Grit = Panache, so now you can use Signature Deed to reduce Panache costs as well. A pistol sword cane would be perfect for this. If your GM lets you reskin it to a pistol sword cane rapier, then it's even better than perfect since you could take the Inspired Blade archetype and get all 3 mental stats to your Grit/Panache pool.
Gunslinger 20|| Spellslinger Wizard 20: Guns and magic. Channel magic through gun! blow stuff up! What's more to say, aside from perfect BAB and saves?
Hexcrafter Magus 20 || Cartomancer Witch 20: If you ever wanted to look cool and deal damage with a deck of cards, this is the best way to do it. Magi even get a specific Arcana that allows them to use the cards with their Arcane pool feature, which works really well with Ghost Touch, Brilliant Energy, and Bane once you get them. Cartomancer prevents them from being destroyed. As a Hexcrafter and a Witch, you will have more Hexes than you know what to do with (especially nice after you gain access to Grand Hexes, may I add). All you need now is a motorcycle to play your card games on.
Sohei Monk 8/Sacred Huntsmaster Inquisitor 12 || Beastmaster Cavalier 20
Evasion + Stalwart, tons of abilities you can grant to your mount, the ability to deal ABSURD damage in a charge, and even some limited spellcasting. Did I mention access to Pummeling Charge with Lances? Yeah.
And this one was already mentioned, but I'll restate it anyway just because of how OP it is:
Scarred Witch Doctor 20 || Invulnerable Rager Barbarian 20
Not only do you hex from your CON stat, but you could also find ways to pour on the DR (Dragon Totem line of Rage powes = 6DR/- !!!), making you downright unkillable. A Barbarian with 9th level spellcasting, reliable self healing and a good Will save. Hell, did I forget to mention that a Half Orc qualifies for both this Orc archetype and the Human FCB for Barbarian? Your Superstitious saves are downright amazing. You could even focus on natural attacks, since Witches get a natural attack in the form of a Hex. Easily the most blatantly OP gestalt combination. GG GM, GG.
Hunter/ranger/druid/barbarian?
with eldrich heritage and dogs
Dogs
Dogs
Dogs everywhere
Oh no
Oh yeah, one more thing, has anyone mentioned Bolt Ace || Zen Archer? The combo looks pretty beastly when it comes down to ranged attacks. I wonder if there's a way to combine the Myrmidarch Magus with it. I guess Bolt Ace 11/Zen Archer 11/Magus 18 would be a pretty good combo, netting you Trick Shot, Inexplicable Reload, and Maximum Weapon Training. With all three put together you can use a ranged spellstrike attack that hits against Touch AC and can ignore most cover while flurrying with effectively Max BAB.Probably an insane DPR machine.
Oh yeah, one more thing, has anyone mentioned Bolt Ace || Zen Archer? The combo looks pretty beastly when it comes down to ranged attacks. I wonder if there's a way to combine the Myrmidarch Magus with it. I guess Bolt Ace 11/Zen Archer 11/Magus 18 would be a pretty good combo, netting you Trick Shot, Inexplicable Reload, and Maximum Weapon Training. With all three put together you can use a ranged spellstrike attack that hits against Touch AC and can ignore most cover while flurrying with effectively Max BAB.Probably an insane DPR machine.Doesn't work.
You can't combine Flurry with Spell Combat. You can't combine Flurry with Ranged Spellstrike. Aaand you can't combine Spell Combat with Ranged Spellstrike.
I think you might be acting on some old information my friend. Flurry is a full attack action:
Starting at 1st level, a monk can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action.
Spell Combat has been FAQ'd to work with any full attack action:
Does spell combat count as making a full attack action for the purpose of haste and other effects?
Yes (revised 9/9/13) This is a revised ruling about how haste interacts with effects that are essentially a full attack, even though the creature isn't specifically using the full attack action (as required by haste). The earlier ruling did not allow the extra attack from haste when using spell combat.
In a similar vein, Ranged Spellstrike can specifically work with full attack actions, like Flurry:
At 11th level, a myrmidarch using a multiple-target spell with this ability may deliver one ray or line of effect with each attack when using a full-attack action, up to the maximum allowed by the spell (in the case of ray effects). Any effects not used in the round the spell is cast are lost.
So I don't really see the problem is with them combining.
As for the prestige class issue, the closest answer I've heard so far from the PF Devs was something along the lines of "DON'T TAKE PRESTIGE CLASSES" but that was mainly along the cheesy and stupid lines of trying to be a wizard on one side while increasing your effective spellcasting on the other side with Eldritch Knight or something.
As such, I would basically say that each prestige class has to basically work on only one side. So you could take Mystic Theurge, but the qualifications for it and the classes it enhances can never cross the gestalt line. As an example:
Witch 6/ Oracle 4/ Mystic Theurge 10 || Antipaladin 20
This should work fine as one of the greatest necromancers ever (though as an aside, if you really wanted the greatest necromancer ever, you'd pick a race with SLA's that get you into MT early and trade 5 witch levels for 5 Agent of the Grave prestige levels right after Mystic Theurge. JuJu Oracle + Gravewalker witch are best archetypes for animating the dead, and getting to do so while still having great combat stats and even better saves is amazing). More importantly, you never apply the increases in effective level to the Antipaladin side (though nobody in their right mind would do this).
Oh wow, I finally took a look at the Arcanist class an I must say that I AM IMPRESSED.
Better still, is the fact that you can have a Blade Adept Arcanist and Gestalt it with an Inspired Blade Swashbuckler. The two are practically made for each other. Rapiers can be used as the Bonded Blade, and both classes specifically rely on both INT and CHA stats. You have max HD and BAB and a ton of easy ways to increase your attack and damage bonuses, including a sword that levels up to +5 on it's own. Plus, the ludicrous critical threat range of the rapier (with free Improved Critical!) combined with Spellstrike makes for one explosive combination. All this, on top of full 9th level WIZARD casting.
It may not be as overpowered as the Witch Barbarian, but damn does it look magnificent. Unlike quite a few builds I've posted before, this is something I wouldn't mind actually leveling up in, rather than starting at high level from the get go.
How does the Wizard have better casting than the Arcanist? They both have 9 level spellcasting. As for combining the Wizard with a martial, the Wizard doesn't get access to Spellstrike.
The Arcanist also just happens to have a similar ability as one of his exploits. He also gets access to Arcane Accuracy, to boost his attack bonus further, unlike the wizard. With the exception of getting spells early (moot point in a high level game) the Arcanist/Swashbuckler is just better than the Wizard/Swashbuckler.
As for the Magus being better due to Spell Combat, he either has to gestalt with a full BAB class to keep up in BAB, or a full casting class to keep up with casting.
That said, a 15 BAB Magus with 9th level Wizard spells may well be better than a 20 BAB Blade Adept due to better action economy, you've got me there. I'm just a sucker for thematic fits, I suppose.
Then again, a level 20 Inspired Blade can basically make all of his attacks crits at will, which definitely bodes well for a Spellstrike user.
EDIT: Plus the Arcanist would have d10 health, compared to the Magus's d8.