Miniatures - do we need 45% to be female?


Miniatures

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Kor - Orc Scrollkeeper wrote:
RadiantSophia wrote:
Kor - Orc Scrollkeeper wrote:


Guesstimate: If the minis were made on the same ratio of male to female gamers, then the ratio would likely be about 1000:1

Do you really believe women comprise 1/10 of 1% of gamers?

My playgroup is ~71% female. My local brick and mortar is ~10% to 15% female. Your numbers are way off.

Your group is the exception. I have spent 30 years of reading countless articles talking about how the hobby is dominated by males. Throughout the years there have also been countless articles on how to make the hobby more attractive to females. I would definitely agree that there are more women gamers today than there were 30 years ago when I started.

That said, I don't think my guestimate of 1000:1 is too inaccurate. Perhaps its closer to 500:1? Sure in some areas it could maybe be even as low as 100:1, but unlikely any lower. But I stand by my 30 years of experience, the countless articles, and my numerous convention experiences including having gone to GenCon twice.

Anyways, back on topic... whether the m:f ration is 1000:1 or 10:1, I would still prefer to see a 2:1 ration of m:f minis.

So, you are saying you only saw 41 women at GenCon. I think paizo on it's own brought half that number of females

The Exchange

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pot bellied monk

Link

Big boned male wizard

Link

Think I'll stop now, because the conversation seems to have moved on while I was searching.

Cheers


DSXMachina wrote:
Kor - Orc Scrollkeeper wrote:
RadiantSophia wrote:
Kor - Orc Scrollkeeper wrote:


Guesstimate: If the minis were made on the same ratio of male to female gamers, then the ratio would likely be about 1000:1

Do you really believe women comprise 1/10 of 1% of gamers?

My playgroup is ~71% female. My local brick and mortar is ~10% to 15% female. Your numbers are way off.

Your group is the exception. I have spent 30 years of reading countless articles talking about how the hobby is dominated by males. Throughout the years there have also been countless articles on how to make the hobby more attractive to females. I would definitely agree that there are more women gamers today than there were 30 years ago when I started.

That said, I don't think my guestimate of 1000:1 is too inaccurate. Perhaps its closer to 500:1? Sure in some areas it could maybe be even as low as 100:1, but unlikely any lower. But I stand by my 30 years of experience, the countless articles, and my numerous convention experiences including having gone to GenCon twice.

Anyways, back on topic... whether the m:f ration is 1000:1 or 10:1, I would still prefer to see a 2:1 ration of m:f minis.

So, you are saying you only saw 41 women at GenCon. I think paizo on it's own brought half that number of female staff.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Wrath wrote:

Think I'll stop now, because the conversation seems to have moved on while I was searching.

Cheers

Dude, those were AWESOME! Thanks!

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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DSXMachina's numbers sound about right... that 30% of gamers at a public convention will be female.

But this is also in line with the conversation we were having in the Jessica Price thread, which is that a large number of women do not attend public gaming events because they are afraid of/do not want to have to deal with mistreatment by the men who tell them that they're only less than 1% of the population do everything to make them feel like they don't belong in the community, and encouraging that they are marginalized representationally, such as asking that they be portrayed even less often than they are in artwork, adventures, and miniatures (I include artwork and adventures in this because Paizo's miniatures and tokens are based on NPCs in their adventures. Asking for fewer female miniatures effectively is asking for fewer notable female NPCs and iconics).

The actual number of women who game is probably much higher (my personal guesstimate that 40% of tabletop gamers are women), but getting them to attend public events to "get counted" is a big hurdle to overcome. Telling us we don't exist doesn't help.

And as it is, I think I'm done with the Paizo community for awhile. I'm tired of being told I don't count or that I'm nonexistent or that my opinion isn't valuable. I'll stick with my PBPs and that's it. I'm tired of feeling angry every day because of a message board, and more to the point, I know I'm getting shrill because of the frustration I feel, and that doesn't help provide effective or productive discourse on the matter.


what the-
I want to talk about awesome miniatures and where you can find them

I want to talk about making awesome representations of characters for the tabletop and I want to help people find a great miniature, or at the least get them on the right track to being confident enough to attempt a conversion

why are you all talking about other stuff and making deathquaker more mad than normal?

also I totally have It Takes Two by MC Rob Base and DJ E-Z Rock stuck in my head now, which is not a bad thing because it sort of blocks up the constant ringing


DeathQuaker wrote:

DSXMachina's numbers sound about right... that 30% of gamers at a public convention will be female.

But this is also in line with the conversation we were having in the Jessica Price thread, which is that a large number of women do not attend public gaming events because they are afraid of/do not want to have to deal with mistreatment by the men who tell them that they're only less than 1% of the population do everything to make them feel like they don't belong in the community, and encouraging that they are marginalized representationally, such as asking that they be portrayed even less often than they are in artwork, adventures, and miniatures (I include artwork and adventures in this because Paizo's miniatures and tokens are based on NPCs in their adventures. Asking for fewer female miniatures effectively is asking for fewer notable female NPCs and iconics).

The actual number of women who game is probably much higher (my personal guesstimate that 40% of tabletop gamers are women), but getting them to attend public events to "get counted" is a big hurdle to overcome. Telling us we don't exist doesn't help.

And as it is, I think I'm done with the Paizo community for awhile. I'm tired of being told I don't count or that I'm nonexistent or that my opinion isn't valuable. I'll stick with my PBPs and that's it. I'm tired of feeling angry every day because of a message board, and more to the point, I know I'm getting shrill because of the frustration I feel, and that doesn't help anything.

Please don't go. Some of us value your opinion.

I haven't in the convention scene in years. I'm kind of surprised it's as high as 30%. Better than I expected.

Sovereign Court

A lot depends on location. In Northern Colorado (Ft Collins, Loveland, Greeley) Finding other female gamers is almost impossible. it is easier to pull teeth.

We have 2 in our group (I and another who is married to another member in the group)

I have had one rule for a longing time that we always had to have have 2 females in the group at all times. if the other leaves the seat is held for another female to be found. It's not been easy and trust me I have searched high and low.

No I cannot speak for Denver or C-Springs, but up north it is not easy. Which is weird because we have a HUGE population of female LARP'ers in Denver, Boulder and the Springs

Silver Crusade

The home group I was in down in Florida was exactly 50/50 male/female in our core regulars. The less regular members were more male than female.

At conventions, and also at the public game store where I play now in Chicago, I'd say it's probably 10-20% female. 30% seems high to me, but Kor's 100:1 or worse estimates just seem ridiculous.


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Mikaze wrote:
Throwing in a vote for a 1:1 ratio, with an equal range of variety for both males and females.

And a nice mix of all races as well.


danielc wrote:
Mikaze wrote:
Throwing in a vote for a 1:1 ratio, with an equal range of variety for both males and females.
And a nice mix of all races as well.

Hell, I would just satisfied with a nice mix of roughly close to correct race. I don't need a female halfling AND a female gnome for each general category of class type. Or a female orc and female half-orc for each. It would be great to have each of those, but please just at least get me freaken close to the right thing.


IceniQueen wrote:

A lot depends on location. In Northern Colorado (Ft Collins, Loveland, Greeley) Finding other female gamers is almost impossible. it is easier to pull teeth.

We have 2 in our group (I and another who is married to another member in the group)

I have had one rule for a longing time that we always had to have have 2 females in the group at all times. if the other leaves the seat is held for another female to be found. It's not been easy and trust me I have searched high and low.

No I cannot speak for Denver or C-Springs, but up north it is not easy. Which is weird because we have a HUGE population of female LARP'ers in Denver, Boulder and the Springs

It's not much better down here in the Springs. We have one consistent female member and occasionally her sister. In my old group we had one, too. It really sucks...

Grand Lodge

Sorry for coming in late to the conversation.

Are we just talking about miniatures that you need to paint like Reaper?

Because in prepainted plastic miniatures (PPM) like Dungeons and Dragons Miniatures, there were plenty of male miniatures for just about any class within the D&D standard universe. Females were well represented too.

My issue was always with monsters. The female variety of Ogre, Giant, Orcs, Goblin whatever was never very well represented in PPM


It must be said, it's rare to see a female monster that isn't from a race entirely or primarily made up of females, like Succubi. And then a lot of the ones that are left are joke models, like the Female Ogre or Orc Cheerleaders from Games Workshop.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

An other, unspoken, factor regarding Female Gamers & Cons is that Cons take money & time. I haven't been able to attend an organized miniatures event in years because my work schedule does not allow it. I just can't afford to take the time off & my work schedule is wonky. If you don't have a 'professional' occupation in today's economy you get a lot fewer chances to attend those sorts of things.


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DeathQuaker wrote:

DSXMachina's numbers sound about right... that 30% of gamers at a public convention will be female.

But this is also in line with the conversation we were having in the Jessica Price thread, which is that a large number of women do not attend public gaming events because they are afraid of/do not want to have to deal with mistreatment by the men who tell them that they're only less than 1% of the population do everything to make them feel like they don't belong in the community, and encouraging that they are marginalized representationally, such as asking that they be portrayed even less often than they are in artwork, adventures, and miniatures (I include artwork and adventures in this because Paizo's miniatures and tokens are based on NPCs in their adventures. Asking for fewer female miniatures effectively is asking for fewer notable female NPCs and iconics).

The actual number of women who game is probably much higher (my personal guesstimate that 40% of tabletop gamers are women), but getting them to attend public events to "get counted" is a big hurdle to overcome. Telling us we don't exist doesn't help.

And as it is, I think I'm done with the Paizo community for awhile. I'm tired of being told I don't count or that I'm nonexistent or that my opinion isn't valuable. I'll stick with my PBPs and that's it. I'm tired of feeling angry every day because of a message board, and more to the point, I know I'm getting shrill because of the frustration I feel, and that doesn't help provide effective or productive discourse on the matter.

And... introducing the no-win situation.

It is NOT your responsibility to involve yourself in any way, but without your input, we lose another portion of our voice.
I understand that Paizo is committed to diversity, and their products illustrate that, but, being told we shouldn't have representation in excess of our supposed 1/5 or 1/10 of 1% runs counter to that commitment. Every time someone vocally leaves the gaming community because they do not feel represented, whatever the reason, two more silently leave with them, now having no support, and that is why diversity in gaming is hard to maintain. Without an initial assumption that these people are in the community (what some would call "unequal representation"), these people will never BE in the community.


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Q: Do we need 45% to be female?
A: Yes.

Aside from all of the gender-equality sensibility other folks have already brought up, there's the simple and obvious fact that miniatures aren't just for PCs. That's right... it doesn't matter if 99.9% of players are male and 99.9% the characters they play are male and if 99.9% of the female characters they play are cross-dresses posing as males.

Because NPCs. The end.

I don't care if your personal world doesn't include females. Mine does. Some of them are good, some of them are bad. Some are allies, some are enemies. Some are wizards, some are fighters. I need miniatures that represent a balanced world, and that mandates roughly half of humanoid minis should be female.


Anguish wrote:

Q: Do we need 45% to be female?

A: Yes.

Aside from all of the gender-equality sensibility other folks have already brought up, there's the simple and obvious fact that miniatures aren't just for PCs. That's right... it doesn't matter if 99.9% of players are male and 99.9% the characters they play are male and if 99.9% of the female characters they play are cross-dresses posing as males.

Because NPCs. The end.

I don't care if your personal world doesn't include females. Mine does. Some of them are good, some of them are bad. Some are allies, some are enemies. Some are wizards, some are fighters. I need miniatures that represent a balanced world, and that mandates roughly half of humanoid minis should be female.

Just to point out that NPC that you are not in combat with (either for or against) don't need miniatures. That is unless you are doing something like this.

Silver Crusade

DeathQuaker wrote:

DSXMachina's numbers sound about right... that 30% of gamers at a public convention will be female.

But this is also in line with the conversation we were having in the Jessica Price thread, which is that a large number of women do not attend public gaming events because they are afraid of/do not want to have to deal with mistreatment by the men who tell them that they're only less than 1% of the population do everything to make them feel like they don't belong in the community, and encouraging that they are marginalized representationally, such as asking that they be portrayed even less often than they are in artwork, adventures, and miniatures (I include artwork and adventures in this because Paizo's miniatures and tokens are based on NPCs in their adventures. Asking for fewer female miniatures effectively is asking for fewer notable female NPCs and iconics).

The actual number of women who game is probably much higher (my personal guesstimate that 40% of tabletop gamers are women), but getting them to attend public events to "get counted" is a big hurdle to overcome. Telling us we don't exist doesn't help.

And as it is, I think I'm done with the Paizo community for awhile. I'm tired of being told I don't count or that I'm nonexistent or that my opinion isn't valuable. I'll stick with my PBPs and that's it. I'm tired of feeling angry every day because of a message board, and more to the point, I know I'm getting shrill because of the frustration I feel, and that doesn't help provide effective or productive discourse on the matter.

To be quite honest you more often than not come across as one of the more even-tempered folks in threads like these. Hell, certainly more than me. If you withdrew from most of the boards, it would be a loss for the community.

Still, if the boards(and some of the crap that unfortunately still floats to the surface) is causing stress, no one can really begrudge your taking a break. Heck, I can't even completely follow many of hte parallel discussion threads related to this because of all the >:( they induce, and I'm not the one being marginalized. That you've managed to do just that and with a cooler head is impressive.

Who else is gonna give on-the-fly miniatures advice anyway? ;)

Silver Crusade

DSXMachina wrote:
So, you are saying you only saw 41 women at GenCon. I think paizo on it's own brought half that number of females

Our GenCon group is almost certainly going to include at least five this year if a first-timer finally gets to make the trip.

I've been to GenCon three times now and each time there were far far more female gamers present than anything in the double digits.

Hell, 41 doesn't even come close to covering the female game company staff that show up. Maybe convention security. MAYBE.

Liberty's Edge

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DeathQuaker wrote:

DSXMachina's numbers sound about right... that 30% of gamers at a public convention will be female.

But this is also in line with the conversation we were having in the Jessica Price thread, which is that a large number of women do not attend public gaming events because they are afraid of/do not want to have to deal with mistreatment by the men who tell them that they're only less than 1% of the population do everything to make them feel like they don't belong in the community, and encouraging that they are marginalized representationally, such as asking that they be portrayed even less often than they are in artwork, adventures, and miniatures (I include artwork and adventures in this because Paizo's miniatures and tokens are based on NPCs in their adventures. Asking for fewer female miniatures effectively is asking for fewer notable female NPCs and iconics).

The actual number of women who game is probably much higher (my personal guesstimate that 40% of tabletop gamers are women), but getting them to attend public events to "get counted" is a big hurdle to overcome. Telling us we don't exist doesn't help.

And as it is, I think I'm done with the Paizo community for awhile. I'm tired of being told I don't count or that I'm nonexistent or that my opinion isn't valuable. I'll stick with my PBPs and that's it. I'm tired of feeling angry every day because of a message board, and more to the point, I know I'm getting shrill because of the frustration I feel, and that doesn't help provide effective or productive discourse on the matter.

On some level I understand your hurt, on most levels I, being male, can not. Please don't take the words of a vocal few as being the feelings of the majority.

Speaking for myself, I can say that anyone who thinks that women are some infinitesimal percentage of the gaming population needs to open their eyes. I have been to Gen Con several times as well as several other game conventions. From what I saw in my several different years attending Gen Con I would say the spread of men to women was a hell of a lot closer to 1:1 than 99:1. Don't discount a woman/girl as a gamer just because of how she looks.


pres man wrote:
Just to point out that NPC that you are not in combat with (either for or against) don't need miniatures. That is unless you are doing something like this.

You don't have bartenders and townsfolk and hostages and witnesses and innocent bystanders?

The point remains... roughly 50% of what hits the battlemat is female.

Grand Lodge

DeathQuaker wrote:

DSXMachina's numbers sound about right... that 30% of gamers at a public convention will be female.

But this is also in line with the conversation we were having in the Jessica Price thread, which is that a large number of women do not attend public gaming events because they are afraid of/do not want to have to deal with mistreatment by the men who tell them that they're only less than 1% of the population do everything to make them feel like they don't belong in the community, and encouraging that they are marginalized representationally, such as asking that they be portrayed even less often than they are in artwork, adventures, and miniatures (I include artwork and adventures in this because Paizo's miniatures and tokens are based on NPCs in their adventures. Asking for fewer female miniatures effectively is asking for fewer notable female NPCs and iconics).

The actual number of women who game is probably much higher (my personal guesstimate that 40% of tabletop gamers are women), but getting them to attend public events to "get counted" is a big hurdle to overcome. Telling us we don't exist doesn't help.

And as it is, I think I'm done with the Paizo community for awhile. I'm tired of being told I don't count or that I'm nonexistent or that my opinion isn't valuable. I'll stick with my PBPs and that's it. I'm tired of feeling angry every day because of a message board, and more to the point, I know I'm getting shrill because of the frustration I feel, and that doesn't help provide effective or productive discourse on the matter.

You count! And don't let anyone on this board make you feel otherwise. You are entitled to your opinion, and it is valuable.

Plus who else is going to remind me to spoiler my post on the Arrow thread. ;)

Shadow Lodge

I personally like the large variety of female minis - to the point where it's easier (in Reaper's catalogue at least) to find a female mini that suits a concept and looks good than to find a male one. Though it would be nice to have wizards who wear more than just robes (women) and don't have beards (men). Besides, getting more people into the game can only be a good thing, regardless of gender.


I have found the Pathfinder Battles mix of genders and classes to be fantastic so far. But, I too, would like to see more paladins that I can use as a male character. And, I have some stipulations about that: I lack the talent and time painting and kit bashing takes, so don't bother offering me unpainted or project minis. And, I expect a Paladin to have grand representation of his (or her) deity In the form of holy symbols emblazoned in the equipment and garb worn. I kind of feel this way about Clerics as well. So, yes, I'd like to see more male Paladin figures. But, not at the expense of female figures. In harmony with them.


The problem I have with most female characters is that they are all pretty and dressed in almost nothing (this is everywhere, in every game in every book, in every tv show)

I like to see more real women, female barbarians that are rough and manly, women dressed in many clothes and females with scars on their faces, ugly women are welcome too.

Why it all have to be pretties? Because the eye wants something too? Well my realistic mind wants something too.

Its probably because i'm gay, but I wouldn't care less if there aren't pretty males around, its unrealistic in an already unrealistic game/world, but a little bit of realistic appearances wouldn't be too much ask would it? And throwing baba yaga into the competition isn't fair, i'm talking about player characters/good women and heroines as well.

Many people even feel depressed when everything is beautiful and pretty, because they start doubt their own appearance.

So next time some love for ugly characters as wel, and not only male uglies.


Bruunwald: Thanks for your input; that is valuable data.

Have you noticed significant regional variants in the ratio? I definitely did when I moved from a large city on the West Coast to a much smaller town in the Southeast.


+1 for some more female monsters too.


As a male who has played RPGs for more than thirty years I just want to say a couple of things:

I played when there were almost no women. I loved that over time I began to see more and more women playing. The tone of the games were better.

I also was happy to see the figures reflect the changes in the demographic of the fan base. We are better off because the fan base has become more diverse. The shift away from the game fan base being 95% teen aged white males and toward a rich mix of genders, races, and backgrounds. It made things more interesting for me as a player.

I want to add my voice to those who are calling for an even split or as close as Paizo can come. I want to see more of both genders for the monsters and for the less common races.


Sincubus wrote:

The problem I have with most female characters is that they are all pretty and dressed in almost nothing (this is everywhere, in every game in every book, in every tv show)

I like to see more real women, female barbarians that are rough and manly, women dressed in many clothes and females with scars on their faces, ugly women are welcome too.

Why it all have to be pretties? Because the eye wants something too? Well my realistic mind wants something too.

Its probably because i'm gay, but I wouldn't care less if there aren't pretty males around, its unrealistic in an already unrealistic game/world, but a little bit of realistic appearances wouldn't be too much ask would it? And throwing baba yaga into the competition isn't fair, i'm talking about player characters/good women and heroines as well.

Many people even feel depressed when everything is beautiful and pretty, because they start doubt their own appearance.

So next time some love for ugly characters as wel, and not only male uglies.

But ugly is Evil! We need to know who are the bad guys in our games!! /sarcasm


In the real world the pretty people are evil and arrogant and use their looks for money.

The Exchange

Sincubus wrote:
In the real world the pretty people are evil and arrogant and use their looks for money.

Certainly in the "real world" of television that's true. I however have experienced thousands of attractive people in my years that are nothing but lovely. Plenty of ugly folks who are lovely too ( I put myself in the latter bracket btw).

I find many of the faces in miniatures sculpts not that attractive at all. The bodies are athletic, but as was pointed out by someone earlier, if they're regularly adventuring or engaging in combat, then they're going to be athletic. This is not unrealistic.

The scanty clothing is very much something that needs to be looked at. However, since I did a huge search through the Reaper minis, the number of scantily cad women is significantly less than I thought. Certainly barbarians types and sorcerer types are the most represented of dodgy dress standards for adventure here.

It seems certain sculptors tend to take on the idea of "less is best" for females. Certainly Werner Klocke from reaper has lots of gratuitous skin in his minis. Many of the others are great though.

Also, I posted something earlier about why miniature sculptors have to exaggerate certain features for them to work in miniaturisation. Scale doesn't work well at this level. It's why so many details are ridiculously large on armour or weapons, or indeed gender identifying characteristics. If you want to be able to tell your male and females apart at a distance of a few feet on the table top, you need exaggerated features to help. Otherwise they just look like long haired males.

I believe the number of female to male models is getting much better. I also believe the idea of representing them in more suitable combat attire is also better, and improving all the time. If we keep calling for the improvements they'll keep happening too. Remember, the best way to get the changes is to vote with your money. If more models with proper attire are purchased, more of those types will be made. If the majority of sales are women in bras and chain mail bikinis, then that's what they're going to make. I

It's well and good to decry it on the net, and certainly it should be brought up and discussed, but again, actions have always talked louder than words.

Cheers.

Dark Archive

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I'd like some female orcs and half orcs and a male catfolk and any gender Grippli (frog folk). The thing I'd really like is some good prepainted minis that can represent just average towns people, ie unarmored and in plain clothes (male and female please)


Here in PHX, I'd say the ratio is about 25 males to 1 female for RPG gamers. Not trying to contribute to an argument, just contributing data.

MTG on the other hand... Roughly 3/1.

I went to GenCon 2012. 30% seems about right.


Anguish wrote:
pres man wrote:
Just to point out that NPC that you are not in combat with (either for or against) don't need miniatures. That is unless you are doing something like this.

You don't have bartenders and townsfolk and hostages and witnesses and innocent bystanders?

The point remains... roughly 50% of what hits the battlemat is female.

Sorry, I was just pulling your leg a bit.

I actually frequently do set up scenes with miniatures even if there isn't going to be a combat just so that the players can get a feel for the scene (I tend to be very visual and helps me run the scene better).

I still claim that the numbers favor males, due to typically most groups of foes being composed primarily of males. While the non-combative NPCs, as well as PCs and their allies should 50% split, this primarily male composition of foes means there will be slightly more males present.

Now should that be the case? Maybe not. But as long as people keep making primarily male orcs, goblins, hobgoblins, etc, I think we have to say we haven't move yet to a situation where 50% enemy combatants should be female.


These are unashamedly old-school miniatures, but for those wanting both more sensibly clothed female figures and some more demi-humans (there's a good half-orc fighter/cleric that'd make a great paladin, and a great halfling fighter in plate, for example), have a look at the Otherworld Indiegogo page. The campaign is over but the first set is just about out and they will all soon be on general release.

link

There are some good pics of the greens and finished figures on the gallery page.

Grand Lodge

Mine all mine...don't touch wrote:
I'd like some female orcs and half orcs and a male catfolk and any gender Grippli (frog folk). The thing I'd really like is some good prepainted minis that can represent just average towns people, ie unarmored and in plain clothes (male and female please)

Villager Miniatures

Try theses!


Here's a male paladin figure if you want it.
http://www.dark-platypus.com/shop/kned-flanders-miniature

The Exchange

heres a link to a bunch of female orc and half orc minis.

I used the Reaper figure finder to track them down. The minis are on the right hand side in a list, just click smll images for a better view

link

This one has everyone of reapers townsfolk in one handy box set.

link

And here I give you some frogmen

Link

cheers

and here's more townsfolk from a company ive only just discovered thanks to google image search

link


One thing I’d like to see less of is the random ‘his/her “ in Class write ups, a bad remainder from earlier editions, where they (wrongly) thought this was being politically correct. It’s just bad English.

Mind you, I do think that the Iconics for each class should be of fully mixed gender, so when we’re talking about that character we’d expect the gender to be correct.

No doubt, there are more male players than female players, but that doesn’t mean there should be more male figures.


Not every set of minis needs to contain every possible class/sex/race combination, as long as you use minis from other sets and companies. Given this, the real situation is that among existing minis the ratio is gargantually (yay word) in favour of men. And that's even without counting the sausage-fest that is Warhammer 40K minis. More female minis is only a good thing. And hey, that a mini is not using the exact equipment is not a problem. Seriously, try finding a mini that is not brandishing a sword, chopping with an axe, posing aggressively, screaming in rage, or the like. I saw some Call of Cthulhu minis that were drinking tea... but nothing since. It's a non-argument.


DrDeth wrote:

One thing I’d like to see less of is the random ‘his/her “ in Class write ups, a bad remainder from earlier editions, where they (wrongly) thought this was being politically correct. It’s just bad English.

Mind you, I do think that the Iconics for each class should be of fully mixed gender, so when we’re talking about that character we’d expect the gender to be correct.

No doubt, there are more male players than female players, but that doesn’t mean there should be more male figures.

Its not random. They have strict style guidelines for the rulebooks. For instance, whenever the reference is in a class description, it defaults to the gender of the iconic.


Kohl McClash wrote:

Just an observation and probably mentioned before that many of the character classes I would like to see from reaper for pathfinder are female character based when I would prefer a male version of them as well. Since a majority of gamers are male who don't tend to play female characters, can we get a male paladin, cleric, etc to buy instead of the female version I won't be playing and won't need to buy?

That goes for the metal reaper as well as the new painted plastic minis.

Thanks!

I dont understand the problem. No need to buy female minis if you dont need them in your game. Use companiens like minimarket or troll & toad who sell singles out of the set. I never buy random bricks or boxes where I cannot control which minis I will finally get. Thats like going to a restaurant and letting the chef choose which dish you have to eat.


Caineach wrote:
Its not random. They have strict style guidelines for the rulebooks. For instance, whenever the reference is in a class description, it defaults to the gender of the iconic.

It used to happen a lot in the latter days of 2nd Ed as well though, before the days of iconics.

I agree, it seems a little twee.

Designer, RPG Superstar Judge

6 people marked this as a favorite.

Yeah, it's really "twee" to try to be more inclusive of female gamers by (1) having half the iconics be female, and (2) actually refer to "she" and "her" more than once in a blue moon.


Huh. I just use pawns these days if I need minis. Awesome art, and it's fairly easy to make your own out of cardboard and a desktop printer and some glue. Years of painstakingly painting metal and plastic miniatures means I want a less time-consuming alternative, and the pre-fab plastics aren't my thing.

If you want to talk about gender disparity in miniature games - well, I originally come from a Warhammer 40,000 background and hoo boy. If you're not an alien/elf or a nun with boobplate (who haven't had an update in what, a decade?), you might as well forget about female representation on the tabletop. The most gender equal faction (Dark Eldar) is also one of the most evil. Fantasy is only marginally better. Warmahordes tends to do a better job with this, with some cool, powerful characters like Haley, Deneghra, and a bunch of other female solos and warcasters.

Keep doing what you're doing Paizo. Also, if you don't like the availability of male miniatures, try playing a female character. Might be fun.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

DrDeth wrote:
One thing I’d like to see less of is the random ‘his/her “ in Class write ups, a bad remainder from earlier editions, where they (wrongly) thought this was being politically correct. It’s just bad English.

No, bad English is using "they" as a singular pronoun. Our style guide is informed primarily by The Chicago Manual of Style, and they say:

Though some writers are comfortable with the occasional use of they as a singular pronoun, some are not, and it is better to do the necessary work to recast a sentence or, other options having been exhausted, use he or she.

We do actually deviate slightly from Chicago in execution—but, we feel, not in intent—by alternating usage of he and she instead of always using he and she (though, as pointed out above, when we discuss a class, we always use the pronoun for that class's iconic, so fighters are he and clerics are she).

Contributor

Looking through the thread, I didn't see this response to the OP, so I'mma say it.

@OP: Your original post mentions that you'd like male versions of female figures in Reaper's Pathfinder line. The Pathfinder line is almost entirely based off of the artwork ordered by Paizo Publishling and included in their products (namely the Adventure Path line). If a piece of Pathfinder art doesn't exist, then that model can't be made. Reaper works hard to make sure their Pathfinder line has the right feel for the Pathfinder Campaign Setting.

So unless you want to ask the art team for a male / female version of every character design here on out, I don't think you'll be getting that from Reaper.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
DeathQuaker wrote:


And as it is, I think I'm done with the Paizo community for awhile. I'm tired of being told I don't count or that I'm nonexistent or that my opinion isn't valuable. I'll stick with my PBPs and that's it. I'm tired of feeling angry every day because of a message board, and more to the point, I know I'm getting shrill because of the frustration I feel, and that doesn't help provide effective or productive discourse on the matter.

I once took a month's break from these boards because of the internet vitrol which tends to gravitate to venues like these.

A good mantra to go buy is to "Think Globally, Act Locally" try to get together with other women gamers at the local level. We're thinking of running games at the local LGBT Pride center.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Vic Wertz wrote:
DrDeth wrote:
One thing I’d like to see less of is the random ‘his/her “ in Class write ups, a bad remainder from earlier editions, where they (wrongly) thought this was being politically correct. It’s just bad English.
No, bad English is using "they" as a singular pronoun. Our style guide is informed primarily by The Chicago Manual of Style, and they say:

Irony?

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