| 6 people marked this as a favorite. |
Gustavo...
You're missing the point entirely. Fighters make the game grounded, gritty, and more real.
No, YOU are missing the point. That's simply not true.
What make the game gritty, grounded and real, is being LOW LEVEL. My 17th level fighter/barbarian had 245hp. That means he could fall from the stratosphere, hit the top of Mount everest, rebound and fall to the ground, taking max fall damage twice, and survive. So try again explaining how +20 to acrobatics is stupid and cartoony.
By the end of his carrer, my fighter was, playing absolutely RAW in Pathfinder, fighting as a 10 feet tall behemoth, moving at the speed of a vampire on crack, flying like superman, and with multiple images. With Enlarge Person, Haste, Fly and Mirror Image (and permanent blurr form a minor cloack of displacement) Does it sound like Pathfinder is enough "gritty and reality" for you?
Sure, I wasn't casting all that myself. I was helped by some team mates, and drinking potions. Green lantern doesn't fly by himself either, he does so because he has a magic ring. Do you think Green lantern is more "gritty and real" that Superman or Wonder woman?
If it were due to a spell effect, sure you can jump that high or far, it's a freaking spell, but when your players are assuming that a character can jump 20 feet at will by the shear strength of his leg muscles, it sounds stupid. Get it?
Oh, I get it. My character can swim in full plate, drink cyanide like if it were Soda, and fall from the mount Everest twice in a row, and that's okey because it is Kosher. But if he can jump 25 feet, he is cartoony.
Did I get it right?
If the point you're getting at is that a spellcaster can 1v1 a dragon but a fighter can't, I don't understand the problem. If you're playing as a fighter without a party to back you up, why are you even playing a roleplaying game with 2 people? For game mechanics to work properly you have to have a group, usually the recommended amount being 4 people.
You are missing the point enterely. Nobody has said that Wizards can take dragons 1 on 1 (although I have seen a Magus doing so). What I'm saying, is that fighters don't bring ANYTHING to the cooperative game you are suggesting. They are JUST a meatshield. While several other classes are a meatshield, that do cool things and help his teammates. A paladin can heal you and remove your disease and curse. A Magus can cast invisibility on you. Summoners can Haste the whole party. Druids have buffs, and pets, and can scout and talk with animals. Even Cavaliers can give other party members s few teamwork feats and some bonus. What can a fighter do to help the party? Aid another maneuver? Because "being there and hit stuff" can be done by all the characters mentioned above. Actually, it can be done by the *companions* of the characters mentioned above.
You're faced with the challenge of scaling a 200 ft. cliff:
Fighter: I climb it...
Wizard: I cast fly...
Except it doesn't work that way.
It goes:Fighter: I'd like to climb it, but I have only 2 skills per level, and -7 to climb because of the full plate, so I'm not really that good at this.
Rest of the party: yeah, we don't have a way either. It could be cool if ...
Wizard: I dimensional door everybody up.
You face an invisible foe:
Fighter: I run around the room kicking up dust and debris to try and see the outline of the figure, or perhaps hear him cough...
Wizard: I cast see invisibility...
Actually, It goes like:
Fighter: "I run and try to hear him cough"DM: "That's a pinpoint perception roll. You roll Perception vs the invisible creature Stealth +20, because of invisibility"
Fighter: ugh, I only have 2 skills points per level, and perception is not even a class skill...
Wizard: I cast Glitterdust. Taht not only make the creature visible to me, but to the whole party. The party rogue, the party druid, and the party cleric willall of them be very happy, because I've just improved the encounter for all of them. Actually, the fighter is happy too, because now he can hit the guy instead of running around kicking garbage.
You're surrounded, flanked by giants on all sides:
Fighter: Time to kick ass and chew barbarian chew...and I'm all out of barbarian chew...
Wizard: I cast teleport because I'm scared of giants...
Actually it goes like "you are surrounded, flanked by Cloud Giants with Levitate, that kick your asses from the air.
Fighter: i run away because I forgot my flying potions.
Wizard: I could just cast Confusion and see how they kill each other, but don't worry, I'll cast fly on you instead. I'll save the day, and improve the party and the cooperative side of the game by giving resources to the group, instead of draining them.
Build versatility is not the same as character versatility.
There is a HUGE difference between having potential to be good at any form of combat and actually being good at all forms of combat.
I think this is what most people are hung up on. Yes, you can make a fighter that is good at TWF'ing, or archery, or tripping, or disarms, or who can handle one or two noncombat skills well, or whatever else. But it takes a lot of time and work on the fighter's part to do so, and once they are, they're entrenched in it. If it doesn't solve their problem, they're pretty much out.
Heck, let's talk switch-hitting. Rangers are good for that. Why? They get a few extra feats, but not nearly as many as the fighter. But then again, they don't need to invest so many feats into making them work. They pick the few feats from their combat style, bypassing prereqs, and get the others with their normal. And then... that's pretty much it. Two nice styles to work with.
Compare the fighter, who goes for weapon focus, weapon specialization, and then even the greater versions of those, on their chosen melee weapons. 4 feats. And then they do it again, for a ranged weapon, in addition to picking up all the things that the ranger did (though not bypassing any prereqs).
Yes, they extra to-hit and damage on these are nice - a fighter will probably do better than a ranger if you only take these into account - but they apply to two very specific types of weapons. Weapon training is a good class feature too and it boosts these numbers higher too... but that's all they are. Numbers. They have better odds of hitting, and do a bit more damage.
Meanwhile, the Ranger is learning to fight his favored enemies, gaining an equivalent, if not better, bonus than what the fighter is getting against his preferred foes. Along with bonuses in his favored terrains, getting bonuses to tracking, gaining an animal companion, and getting spells. Oh, and he gets twice as many skill points, for much nicer out of combat versatility.
And then let's compare the barbarian. Barbarian's aren't the greatest switch hitters, so we'll say the Fighter can match the Barb with weapon focus/spec on just a single melee weapon. Cool, that's +2 to hit, and +4 damage, after... 12 levels. Meanwhile, the barbarian's been raging since first level for +2 to hit, and +2 damage, increasing to +3 at level 11 (just before the fighter gets his second +2 on damage, leaving him 1 behind on extra damage, but 1 ahead on hit chance). But the fighter has weapon training of course. So, maybe he'll pull out ahead, when using his very specific weapon. But then again... it's still just numbers.
The Barbarian however, has been moving faster since first level. He's got a higher will save whenever he's raging, along with trap sense, and some scaling damage reduction (which ties with the fighter at level 19, but is never seen before then. And it's not solely limited/dependent on armor). And... oh yeah! Those rage powers. Like being nigh untouchable on spells or supernatural abilities that allow saving throws. Or getting claws and pounce, or flight, or increasing his damage reduction, or adding dodge bonuses to his AC, or funneling his power attack penalty into his AC, so that when he attacks someone, they just explode. Or any mix of those and others. And... hey, the Barbarian also gets twice as many skill points as the fighter, giving him more out of combat versatility, like the Ranger.
Like was said in the options/numbers thread, the problem with fighters is a lack of options. They just really don't have them unless you go out of your way (and quite a bit so) to make sure they do. And even then, it's pretty much a matter of "my options are this or this and maybe this other thing too." And that's rooted into what you can do starting from level 1, and sticking with it for a very large portion of the game. And if it doesn't work... that's that. Better luck next time.
Man, that got to be a long post.
I agree with darkwolf, but would like to add:
Barbarians get +2 to hit and +3 to damage right in the first level. Because they get *STR* bonuses, which mean you have 1.5x if you use a 2 handed weapon (which most barbarians do anyways).
By 11th level, the barbarian gets +3 to hit and at least +4 to damage (depending on his starting STR, and if the rage makes it even or odd number). And then you have Pounce, Spell Sunder, Superstition, and all those shiny Rage powers.
In terms of damage, the Fighter is at the very least equal, if not superior. But he is much more bland. His choices are, bassically, to power attack, or not (or whatever other pony trick he knows). While the Barbarian have a lot of 1x rage powers he can use here and there for some effects.
Rynjin, I'm not saying that a fighter shouldn't be able to make an epic jump. If you have +20 acrobatics, the jump is no longer epic, because you can make it at will...
...Because they get *STR* bonuses, which mean you have 1.5x if you use a 2 handed weapon (which most barbarians do anyways).
Yeah, I was gonna mention that, since it is generally the way I see Barbs go, but it is technically situational, so I went with the minimum, which is at least a +2 to damage.
This is how you design a good Fighter class in a table top RPG or, in this case, a video game:
Rynjin, I'm not saying that a fighter shouldn't be able to make an epic jump. If you have +20 acrobatics, the jump is no longer epic, because you can make it at will...
So you see nothing at all epic about somebody being able to do something well out of the range of normal man like it's easy...?
"all classes can shine" is akin to say "all cars can run". Yep, a Toyota Starlet can run, and a Ferrari F50 can run. That doesn't mean they are equal.
"all classes can shine" is akin to say "all cars can run". Yep, a Toyota Starlet can run, and a Ferrari F50 can run. That doesn't mean they are equal.
Point being, I don't think he cares. He likes Fighters. Not everybody wants a Ferrari. Sorry if that spoils your day.
I personally have always played a fighter. They do have many advantages over other classes. I have browsed through some of this thread and have yet to see anyone mention one of the finer points...they can use virtually any weapon they get their hands on w/o penalty!
At level 6 (minimum as far as I recall) if they have picked the right feats, can create a magic weapon or armor to help contend with those pesky spell casters.
Outside of that you just have to play them as the strategist they are. Aim for where it'll hurt the worst, even if it's just making the baddies lose their cool. My first character was a fighter (back in AD&D 1st ed) and he took on dragons day in and day out. Heck, my last memorable character was a fighter. He specialized in a custom sword and a custom battle gauntlet. The GM thew everything at this character and he always manages to come out on top. What's more is when we started that campaign everyone was third level ... everyone but my fighter. He was level 1.
Everyone found out how important he was after the orcs attacked. The fighter and ranger advanced into the woods to cut off the ones who were trying to ambush the party and took them out quick. They returned just in time to save the spell casters and paladins from the rest of the orcs...Now that I think about it...it was a bit strange that casters and paladins couldn't handle a few squads of orcs...they were only 3rd level, save for the fighter who was still 1st level. lol
When all else fails intimidate then hit them with every weapon you can get your hands on!
Not everybody wants a Ferrari.
True, some people want Lamborghinis and such.
@Xanthemann: Nobody mentioned "Fighters can craft magic stuff at 5th level" as an upside since casters can craft stuff at 5th level too, and don't have to buy another Feat (Master Craftsman) to do so. It's not an upside to the Fighter class at all.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The correct rebuttal is "Anybody can craft a very limited set of stuff at level 5,so Fighters are great!"
Which of course makes no sense.
==Aelryinth
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The correct rebuttal is "Anybody can craft a very limited set of stuff at level 5,so Fighters are great!"
Which of course makes no sense.
==Aelryinth
Not to mention it's actually only possible at 7th level.
Not everybody wants a Ferrari.
True, some people want Lamborghinis and such.
Nah. I'll take a Shelby GT500...
Nah. I'll take a Shelby GT500...
"and such"
The point being that while Class A may be a Gremlin and Class B may be a Ferrari, and Player A doesn't want a Ferrarri...that doesn't mean he wants a Gremlin either.
Nah. I'll take a Shelby GT500..."and such"
The point being that while Class A may be a Gremlin and Class B may be a Ferrari, and Player A doesn't want a Ferrarri...that doesn't mean he wants a Gremlin either.
I loved my Gremlin...
Jesus I can't please anyone!
Jesus I can't please anyone!
LOL... seriously though, that Gremlin was awesome. In the late 70s, at the height of the OPEC embargo with gas lines circling the block, I was getting 25 miles a gallon (when the average MPG for an American car was something like 14) and driving for a month on a full tank...
I'll never understand the Gremlin hate. I mean it's not like it was an exploding Pinto, or an unsafe at any speed Karmen Ghia, or a (shudder) Corsair.... It was a safe, reliable, handy, efficient, cheap car. Just what I needed as a college student.
Jesus I can't please anyone!
LOL... seriously though, that Gremlin was awesome. In the late 70s, at the height of the OPEC embargo with gas lines circling the block, I was getting 25 miles a gallon (when the average MPG for an American car was something like 14) and driving for a month on a full tank...
I'll never understand the Gremlin hate. I mean it's not like it was an exploding Pinto, or an unsafe at any speed Karmen Ghia, or a (shudder) Corsair.... It was a safe, reliable, handy, efficient, cheap car. Just what I needed as a college student.
Hey! They fixed the gas tank on my Pinto...
Hey! They fixed the gas tank on my Pinto...
... or so they claimed.
Jesus I can't please anyone!LOL... seriously though, that Gremlin was awesome. In the late 70s, at the height of the OPEC embargo with gas lines circling the block, I was getting 25 miles a gallon (when the average MPG for an American car was something like 14) and driving for a month on a full tank...
I'll never understand the Gremlin hate. I mean it's not like it was an exploding Pinto, or an unsafe at any speed Karmen Ghia, or a (shudder) Corsair.... It was a safe, reliable, handy, efficient, cheap car. Just what I needed as a college student.
I never realized the Gremlin got any "hate" so much as it's just "that car". It was the car you got because it was cheap and reliable, not the car you always wished you were driving around (or at least wished you had the money to drive around).
I never realized the Gremlin got any "hate" so much as it's just "that car". It was the car you got because it was cheap and reliable, not the car you always wished you were driving around (or at least wished you had the money to drive around).
As an ex-Gremlin owner, I can assure you that Gremlins are among the most maligned cars in recent automotive history Rynjin. They are constantly the butt of jokes (as you did above) and are, 30 years later, still sufficiently despised to get snickers on car commercials or sitcoms.
And I seriously don't understand why. The Gremlin ushered in the era of small, reliable, fuel efficient utility hatchbacks, which are now in just about every garage in the country.
It's not like they had a reputation for breaking down or being expensive to repair. I guess they just looked funny to some people, and that's all that mattered.
I seriously did love my Gremlin. That car had serious range dude. I could go 500 miles on a single tank of gas. In 1979. I haven't owned a car since that could go over 450 miles on one tank. Most do about 350.
I'll admit, my little poke at them is mostly due to a bit of memetic osmosis and the fact that they are pretty funny lookin' cars.
As for a car that can go 400-450 miles to the gallon nowadays, the Prius is your best bet. I can drive from home (Tallahassee, Florida) to Jackson, Mississippi and only have to fill up again towards the end of the drive.
Granted, it's got a bit less mileage with a lead foot, but that's pretty darn good for a car with only a 10 gallon tank. It's a comfy car too.
I'll admit, my little poke at them is mostly due to a bit of memetic osmosis and the fact that they are pretty funny lookin' cars.
As for a car that can go 400-450 miles to the gallon nowadays, the Prius is your best bet. I can drive from home (Tallahassee, Florida) to Jackson, Mississippi and only have to fill up again towards the end of the drive.
Granted, it's got a bit less mileage with a lead foot, but that's pretty darn good for a car with only a 10 gallon tank. It's a comfy car too.
I drive a Yaris. It gets 42mpg pretty reliably. I usually get 425 - 450 miles per tank.
In fact I know a guy who has a Prius. He gets a few more miles per gallon than I do. But I paid a whole lot less. :)
Of course the Yaris is probably the closest thing to a Gremlin that is out today.
Or was, until the Smart Car came out. Yay Smart Car. I know a guy who drives a Smart Car too.
My Yaris gets better gas mileage than his Smart Car. :)
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
It's fun reminiscing about the glory days, when this thread was about Fighters, not cars :)
The Prius has terrible TCO compared to something like a Gremlin. The electrical storage is expensive and toxic and the mining and manufacturing processes do more ecological damage than driving a gas guzzler.
Pffft, I don't care about ecological damage, I just like the fact that it's a comfortable car that doesn't look goofy and I don't have to pay tons in gas. Wasn't really much more expensive than any other car I would've gotten either.
It's fun reminiscing about the glory days, when this thread was about Fighters, not cars :)
And not about fighters vs wizards ;-)
Fighters either need a boost to their dps so they are the king of their specialization or they need a unique gimmick or set of tricks all to themselves preferably something with out of combat utility. So has anyone come up with some neat fighter gimmicks?
So... going back to topic and ignoring the constant derails into fighter vs wizard or some iteration thereof...
I don't much like the idea of boosting attack/damage yet further. Yeah, it is super lame that other classes have power crept past the fighter in this area, but boosting the fighter back up over them is just keeping the power creep cycle going.
Any genius ideas for class abilities to afford the fighter major versatility boosts without really power creeping his damage up? I'm sure there have been some ideas in this thread that are cool and unique, but if so they are buried under thirteen pages of other things.
Point being, I don't think he cares. He likes Fighters. Not everybody wants a Ferrari. Sorry if that spoils your day.
"all classes can shine" is akin to say "all cars can run". Yep, a Toyota Starlet can run, and a Ferrari F50 can run. That doesn't mean they are equal.
I doesn't spoil my day. There are a lot of reasons to preffer a Toyota Starlet instead of a Ferrari. Like nostalgia, or lack of budget.
However, that doesn't mean they are equal.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
So... going back to topic and ignoring the constant derails into fighter vs wizard or some iteration thereof...
I don't much like the idea of boosting attack/damage yet further. Yeah, it is super lame that other classes have power crept past the fighter in this area, but boosting the fighter back up over them is just keeping the power creep cycle going.
Any genius ideas for class abilities to afford the fighter major versatility boosts without really power creeping his damage up? I'm sure there have been some ideas in this thread that are cool and unique, but if so they are buried under thirteen pages of other things.
I don't think boosting damage will solve Fighter problems. I was doing enough damge to kill anything in a single full round. If you double or triple the fighter damage, there's no difference, because the monster can only die once.
Things I would do to make fighters better:
Start with 4 skill points per level, and give him real skills, instead of garbage trap skills like swimming and climbing. Like Perception, Diplomacy or sense motive.
Give them options to stand up against some types of magic. I find absurd that when a Dragon comes and Fear starts to kick in, the first guy to run is the grizzled veteran. "Bravery" is some attemt to it, but, like everything they give to fighters, it's lame and pitiful. I'd do something like "Fighters add their level to fear saves".
Give them options to break through magical barriers such as wall of force. Something like "sunder spell" for example. Things like being able to See invisibility (some short of improved blind fighting), or to dispel/ignore effects that restrain him.
Some out of combat uniqueness. I'd make "leadership" his out of combat main point. He could get followers at a given level, or a free squire, or maybe some ability to use Diplomacy in an Aragon-like way to make people trust him.
I'd also make him the "ability guy". Back in AD&D 2e, fighters could get more from stats than anyone else. Everybody could have 18 str, but only Fighters could have 18/00. Everybody could have high Con, but only fighters could have more than +2 hp per HD. And so on. While the rogue is the "skill guy", the figher is the "innate talent from abilities" guy.
He should be tougher than anybody else in heavy armor. Again, "armor mastery" is an attempt, but, again, it's too little. It only helps certain fighters (those with high DEX, like TWF). Give him DR, or something crazy like use STR instead of DEX to AC when he has a shield (block).
And the most important thing: whenever you give him some class feature, and you feel it is "too much" or "Break the game", compare it to a Magus ability to cast spells in a full attack, or the summoner ability to have a pet that can wreck a Roman Legion. If it is not stronger, then you aren't denying the class feature because of "balance". You are denying it because "fighters can get nice things".
This is hilarious. The fighter can swim but if he's on a horse his swim skill is wasted, but the wizards spells, whether he can apply them to the situation at hand at all, "apply the moment he wants them to."
If swim is "wasted" if the fighter isn't swimming, then "fireball" is "wasted" if the wizard can't cast it in the current situation. If the wizard's situational SPELLS are not wasted, then neither are the fighter's situational FEATS.
A fighter has 14400 rounds of weapon specialization and a couple other bonus feats while the wizard has 1 round of fireball and 5 rounds of haste and 500 rounds of tongues and 500 rounds of see invisibility and 50 rounds of fog cloud and 30000 rounds of rope trick and 50 rounds of invisibility and 1 round of color spray and 1 round of ray of enfeeblement and 50 rounds of enlarge person and 30000 rounds of unseen servant and 14400 rounds of acid splash, mending, prestidigitation, and light.
The fighter is not using his feats for 14400 rounds. The wizard is using fireball for 1 round.
The wizard is like a man who buys his groceries and uses most of them before they go bad. The fighter is like a man who buys a 5' by 6' by 4' flat of milk crates, drinks a gallon and tries to barter the rest to his wizard and bard and cleric neighbors for food and most of it winds up spoiling.
Not having to worry about running out is great, but when you're paying as much, relatively speaking, for feats as the fighter is you're overvaluing it. It's just not worth what you're paying.
Well you make a good point here, but using all your groceries seems good, but not in comparison to someone who is self-sufficient. I'll explain.
If the fighter can keep their hp up (good old cleric, potions, high ac from feats/gear or just being lucky/tactical and not being harmed by the first few encounters) then they can just keep on going. This is the 15 minute work-day issue again, but I want to go further. Spellcasters are great, and can be really powerful and oh so fine, but they run out, and then want to rest, so that they get their nifty stuff back and so they can blow/save or suck through the competition after their rest period. The fighter, does not need to rest so as replenish spells, they can just keep going. Hp permitting.
It can be a lot like the warrior of diablo 1. If I have red healing potions, I am good to go, ready to try my hand at clearing another level of the dungeon.
Now this can go on and on, until the dm consults fatigue and rest rules or the fighter calls it a day. It can also cause friction between the players, as I have seen, when a melee char wants to keep going and the spellcaster does not. C'mon, just a few more rooms and the dungeon is clear compared to the, let's roll out the bedroll here and have a nap.
Now if the fighter goes ahead without the party, they may be truly splattered, it might be the end. So spellcasters can force the issue and hold the fighter to ransom. If you go ahead without me, you die. I am willing to bet you won't die and leave me open to die, so now I go to sleep. This can come up, if someone wants heroism, to dive into combat to blitz dungeons but the spellcaster/s want to play it safe. This situation can also apply to some other classes, such as the ranger archer "why are we stopping, I still have arrows?", the barbarian "Ha! We can take more skulls, I still have the power of rage within me" or cavalier "Verily that last skirmish got my blood up, I still require fitting challenge".
This can crop up for other classes sure, but whatever your fighter build, if they have the hp to go forward, and foes that they can counter and defeat, they can keep going after the sun sets. This is something many spellcaster players are loathe to do once low on spells "damn, I am out of level 3s and 4s".
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
If the fighter can keep their hp up (good old cleric, potions, high ac from feats/gear or just being lucky/tactical and not being harmed by the first few encounters) then they can just keep on going. This is the 15 minute work-day issue again, but I want to go further. Spellcasters...
The bolded part just show how the fighters aren't self suficient, and are dependant of others, a resource drain, and need to rest after the 15 minutes like everybody else.
Wizards are reality-warpers. When their reality-warp resource (spells) is spent, they need to rest.
Fighters are meat-shield. When their meat-shield resource (hit points) is spent, they need to rest too.
Sure, the fighter could use Wands of Cure Light Wound to keep going. Just like the Wizard can use Wands of Fireball to keep going.
And, once again: the typical adventuring day goes 4-5 encounters per day. Even if you do those in a row, no rest, that means 12-15 combat rounds, for most parties in most fights. The spellcasters CAN cast 12-15 combat rounds, with ease. Much more, if they have some Wand (caster level 9 magic missile or caster level 7 scorching ray are good) to fill rounds. Often, the reason for the 15 minute adventure day is not that the Wizard is out of reality-warping, but that the cleric is out of healing-pills for the fighter.
Gustavo...
You're missing the point entirely. Fighters make the game grounded, gritty, and more real.
No, YOU are missing the point. That's simply not true.
What make the game gritty, grounded and real, is being LOW LEVEL. My 17th level fighter/barbarian had 245hp. That means he could fall from the stratosphere, hit the top of Mount everest, rebound and fall to the ground, taking max fall damage twice, and survive. So try again explaining how +20 to acrobatics is stupid and cartoony.
By the end of his carrer, my fighter was, playing absolutely RAW in Pathfinder, fighting as a 10 feet tall behemoth, moving at the speed of a vampire on crack, flying like superman, and with multiple images. With Enlarge Person, Haste, Fly and Mirror Image (and permanent blurr form a minor cloack of displacement) Does it sound like Pathfinder is enough "gritty and reality" for you?
Sure, I wasn't casting all that myself. I was helped by some team mates, and drinking potions. Green lantern doesn't fly by himself either, he does so because he has a magic ring. Do you think Green lantern is more "gritty and real" that Superman or Wonder woman?
If it were due to a spell effect, sure you can jump that high or far, it's a freaking spell, but when your players are assuming that a character can jump 20 feet at will by the shear strength of his leg muscles, it sounds stupid. Get it?Oh, I get it. My character can swim in full plate, drink cyanide like if it were Soda, and fall from the mount Everest twice in a row, and that's okey because it is Kosher. But if he can jump 25 feet, he is cartoony.
Did I get it right?
If the point you're getting at is that a spellcaster can 1v1 a dragon but a fighter can't, I don't understand the problem. If you're playing as a fighter without a party to back you up, why are you even playing a roleplaying game with 2 people? For game mechanics to work properly you have to have a group, usually the recommended...
Indeed. Have you played runelords? Did a character of yours ever complete the fish quest? Where you have to drink the filthy water from the fish tank of the ugly fish? Yeah my fighter drank it, the whole damn mug. Multiple fort saves? Psshaw. He was born for this.
Assuming your playing the role of the good meat shield you are going to soak up damage, damage mitigation wand of clw, channel energy, healing spells are resources that run out.
Well again, not all fighters are meat shields, some do tremendous damage, some kill from range, some dodgers get to such a fine ac, they don't take much damage over a few fights. No need to stop, this is bat country after all.