I'm working on a pen and paper RPG, and have recently decided to just go D20 OGL on it instead of struggling through designing my own system, and having it ultimately suck really bad.
I rather prefer Pathfinder's version of the core rules, because they generally seem a lot smoother and more usable than 3.5s, so I was wondering just how much of it, and what parts specifically, were usable under the OGL?
I'm wondering this too, for roughly the same reason (though I plan to make a few modifications).
My understanding is that almost all of it is OGL, hence why it can be published on the d20pfsrd.com website. What is not OGL is all the Golarion specific fluff, hence why d20pfsrd had to remove it from their website once they opened their own online store (thus violating paizo's fair use policy).
If someone has better information than this, I would love to hear it though! I'm curious myself.
PRD. Everything there is fair game as long as rules noted in OGL are followed.
Ah, I see.
So essentially, all the game's mechanics are fair game, but anything else is not.
Class names and some spell names are considered OGC, right? I doubt they have a trademark on Druid, Barbarian, Fireball, Magic Missile and such but it seems like there's some gray area in there.
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If you plan on publishing anything, talk to a lawyer.
Unless it's gorbacz; he'll probably snark you away.
PRD. Everything there is fair game as long as rules noted in OGL are followed.Ah, I see.
So essentially, all the game's mechanics are fair game, but anything else is not.
Class names and some spell names are considered OGC, right? I doubt they have a trademark on Druid, Barbarian, Fireball, Magic Missile and such but it seems like there's some gray area in there.
Class names and spell names (except those which include proper name, like tenser's floating disk or champion of Irori or whatever that class is named) are not proper names and thus they are open content.
In case of any doubts consult a lawyer. Or avoid material you are unsure of.
I'll echo the lawyer advice. If a lawyer is too expensive then so is publishing.
how much does the average lawyer cost :T?
and what KIND of lawyer do I look for in this case?
An IP lawyer both to make sure you're not violating the rights of others and to help protect your own rights.
Lawyers can cost hundreds of dollars per hour. Retainers will run you anywhere $10k+.
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Only talk to a lawyer of in doubt. If you're using fully OGL stuff and are publishing OGL, just do it. The legal paranoia surrounding doing anything without first paying a lawyer is a cancer on our society. Sure, do it if you're paranoid, but of you're repeating the same process many others have already been through, you don't need your own personal legal advice.
If you DO consult a lawyer, make sure you talk to one who groks the OGL, or at least open source type stuff in general. There are many out there who just won't get it, who will operate under an "everything must be fully proprietary" mindset, and who will give you bad advice. Lots of publishing legal departments demand written permission where they don't really need it. (Nina Paley had a good rant recently that touched on this.)
If you don't and get sued then you'll have no choice but to get one and by then you'll need to pay for them to get up to speed. You don't need a legitimate reason to sue someone either. It's a common tactic to simply sue to waste time and money.
If you can't pay a lawyer to supervise business affairs from a legal aspect you literally can't afford to be in business. I don't care what your venture is.
Only talk to a lawyer of in doubt. If you're using fully OGL stuff and are publishing OGL, just do it. The legal paranoia surrounding doing anything without first paying a lawyer is a cancer on our society. Sure, do it if you're paranoid, but of you're repeating the same process many others have already been through, you don't need your own personal legal advice.
Has anyone ever actually been sued for breaching the terms of the OGL? Given the volume out there and the inconsistencies in the way in which it is adhered to, I'd rate a lawsuit a pretty low risk, personally.
I'd consult a lawyer, but I'm recommending that as an educational step, not a protective one.
As a professional (an accountant), it's incredible to me how often people will avoid spending money based on an instinctive idea that they will be charged through the nose for valueless advice. In my view, if it's not your field you should be in doubt about what the terms of a contract mean and how they'll impact on what you want to do - law students dont just sit there twiddling their thumbs. They learn stuff and how to apply it in context and they'll generally share that expertise with you in a much more efficient and stress-free way than if you try to do it yourself.
Most due to patent and copyright craziness. Until that stuff gets straightened out in a sensible manner the only sane thing to do is lawyer up.
I don't think you can copyright game mechanics anyway
I am pretty sure you can, otherwise 3pp wouldn't had the problem they had with 4e.
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You can't copyright mechanics, but you can copyright their expression. And that makes it sometimes quite hard to express them :)
The 3pp problem with 4e was that the GSL license was extremely unwieldy when you wanted to make something that was officially compatible with 4E, referenced it and used WotC IP (beholders etc.). Not that it was impossible - it was just that more awkward than OGL/PFCL, and when Pathfinder landed, pretty much all 3pp jumped ship somewhere else. It was just easier to either write Pathfinder stuff or your own instead of dealing with GSL.
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As a professional (an accountant), it's incredible to me how often people will avoid spending money based on an instinctive idea that they will be charged through the nose for valueless advice.
I'm not suggesting one avoid spending money because of a fear of paying for valueless advice- although if you are going to pay, it's worth getting somebody who knows the area you need. What I'm objecting to is the notion in our society that you can't do anything without consulting a lawyer first.
It's not that hard. Read the OGL. Read the Open Game declaration in the front of the Paizo products. Nearly everything rules-wise is OGL as Paizo has been very, very generous.
Your chance of being sued is near 0. Worst case is you get a cease & desist request and you have to stop distributing your product.
I'm not suggesting one avoid spending money because of a fear of paying for valueless advice- although if you are going to pay, it's worth getting somebody who knows the area you need. What I'm objecting to is the notion in our society that you can't do anything without consulting a lawyer first.
As a professional (an accountant), it's incredible to me how often people will avoid spending money based on an instinctive idea that they will be charged through the nose for valueless advice.
Fair enough. I consult lawyers all the time. My main point is that a suggestion to "talk to a lawyer" is not necessarily due to fear of litigation. I think there's value in doing things properly and legal advice is very useful for achieving that in the context of establishing and running a business.
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I"m positive you can't, or D&D would STILL be the Only Roleplaying System. Every other RPG since OD&D came out has ripped off D&D in one way or another.
You're overstating the similarities between pre-OGL D&D and other old-school games. Yes, they (mostly) all used dice, hexes, etc, but the systems were vastly different in most other respects -- enough that no one could reasonably claim infringement. If you need examples, I'm sure the original rules for games like Rolemaster, GURPS, Ars Magica, Call of Cthulhu and the like are floating around the internet somewhere.
To answer the OP's question (and to clear up some terminology), a great deal of the Pathfinder ruleset is Open Game Content, which is available to third-party publishers under the Open Gaming License and the Pathfinder Compatibility License. Open Game Content allows you to use a vast majority (but not all) of the game mechanics in our published material, but not our intellectual property (which details the world of Golarion). If you're thinking about venturing into the world of third-party publishing, I would recommend that you freelance for another company to get a sense of what's involved before venturing into publishing yourself (as they are two very different skillsets). If you're going to be a publisher with the Pathfinder ruleset, you absolutely must familiarize yourself with the terms of the Open Gaming License and the Pathfinder Compatibility License, as they are considered to be legally binding documents.
Should you put your toe into the third-party publishing for Pathfinder, I look forward to seeing your product on Paizo's store (when you get to that point). Good luck!
To answer the OP's question (and to clear up some terminology), a great deal of the Pathfinder ruleset is Open Game Content, which is available to third-party publishers under the Open Gaming License and the Pathfinder Compatibility License. Open Game Content allows you to use a vast majority (but not all) of the game mechanics in our published material, but not our intellectual property (which details the world of Golarion). If you're thinking about venturing into the world of third-party publishing, I would recommend that you freelance for another company to get a sense of what's involved before venturing into publishing yourself (as they are two very different skillsets). If you're going to be a publisher with the Pathfinder ruleset, you absolutely must familiarize yourself with the terms of the Open Gaming License and the Pathfinder Compatibility License, as they are considered to be legally binding documents.
Should you put your toe into the third-party publishing for Pathfinder, I look forward to seeing your product on Paizo's store (when you get to that point). Good luck!
No, I'm working on a game of my own, with its own setting, and its own mechanics, but I would much rather base it off of Pathfinder's version of the core rules, because I know them better than 3.5s and they're a lot more streamlined and efficient.
I'd kinda like to do some stuff for Pathfinder, but I don't have the schedule stability (I'm a college student, going into Multimedia, so I have a lot of projects) and I don't think I'm exactly the best candidate for working freelance for anyone other than myself...
I am currently entering the finishing phase of putting together, formatting, and proofreading a document that consists among other thing of alternative races, classes, a different way to purcahse skills, and a different way how armor works.
Now you could use other Pathfinder RPG books to add feats, items, and creatures, but it's more of an alternative Core Rulebook than a Splatbook.
I would assume that things like these are not treated as "compatible" under the Compatibility License. Which is not really a problem, as the only thing I am interested in is indicating that it is based on the PRD and not the d20 SRD.
But I am still interested in what "compatibility" exactly means. Is that term described in greater detail somewhere?