Someone explain a reason you would have to run into a 15th level commoner.
What does this guy do?
Why is he a 15HD commoner? he's never amounted to anything except 15 level of mediocrity?
I can't come up with a viable explanation for a high-level beetle bailey?
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He was a conscripted soldier who nevertheless managed to survive (through a combination of luck and shovel swinging skill) through battle after battle of being thrown at the enemy as arrow fodder.
Years later, he's gained enough skill and experience to be considered a demi-god among farmers, an old war hero who puts all those town guardsman "Warriors" to shame.
Whenever the monsters come a knockin' around his village, he picks up his trusty spade and goes to town on the poor bastards who never knew what hit them.
They call him the bane of Goblins, the terror of Orcs, and the king of Cabbages: Captaaaaaain Commoner!!!!!
Rynjin, that made me laugh hardily.
Unfortunately, in that case he would have levels of warrior and expert. Farmers are mutliclassed experts/commoners.
Hmmm, an 80 year old town drunk who chases the bandits out of town with his flaming cane?
Bandit 1: what happened back there?
Bandit 2: It was an old man with his flaming cane!
who said he would take levels of warrior tho? I mean that would impart actual training. Perhaps the guy is too lazy, or drunk or unmotivated?
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He did one thing, and one thing only: farming. Fifty years later and he has seen all that comes with his craft and can pull a crop through almost anything. In his quest to perfect his craft, however, he failed to learn any other skills. He has no particular talent for fighting (slow BAB), is not particularly resilient (low saves and HD), and barely has a working knowledge of most things other than his job (limited skill points and class skills). He does alright compared to most when the going gets tough, though. Years of work have made him used to pulling through the hard times whether its a dry spell that won't end or a brawl at the local tavern. He could go out and be an adventurer if he wanted to, but quite frankly, he is too old for that crap.
Incidentally, I heard once that in the Eberron campaign setting the highest level NPC in the world was actually a lvl 20 commoner. She worked as a cook in Sharn and made the best food anywhere. Never saw where she was talked about though.
who said he would take levels of warrior tho? I mean that would impart actual training. Perhaps the guy is too lazy, or drunk or unmotivated?
Even the drunk has two levels of warrior. :)
He's going to have at least a 28 skill in his chosen profession or craft.
craft: fertilizer
Haha he would be the sh*t
If the peasants with pitch forks and torches scared off Frankenstien and Dracula, maybe it was a MOB of 15th level Commoners?
Weapon focus pitch fork!
who said he would take levels of warrior tho? I mean that would impart actual training. Perhaps the guy is too lazy, or drunk or unmotivated?Fighter is the trained one. Warrior is also a subset of barbarian, which is not trained. Just by being in battles an NPC gets the sort of experience required to take warrior levels.
What if he's never in battles?
Check out my NPCs get xp too rant here which has lots of links among them Toothless Joe a 12th-level commoner (with backstory) , the fabled bartender (com15)and the glorious Commoner campaign(actual play though only up to low/med levels).
As "average normal life" results in lvl6-8 venerable commoners with the Different advancement theories from the rant (one by paizo's own SKR btw), why should not some commoners rise to 10,15 or even 20 if their lives where sufficiently interesting/challenging and they never got or even wanted any special training?
Again I'm reminded of the servants accompanying some of the heroes in Steven Brust's awesome Khaavren Romances. (Weapon focus barstool anyone?)
Donald Duck is certainly a moderately high level commoner. Very little drive or initiative of his own, but keeps getting into all these whacky hijinks with his uncle and his nephews.
He's even pretty skilled, for a nobody, he can fly, knows the basics of thousands of different jobs, has rudimentary knowledge of treasure hunting, etc.
Of course, his ability scores are all very-low-to-barely-medium, at best. coupled with his personality quirks, it make him pretty useless overall.
Still, relatively high level commoner, I'd argue.
Nonono... he is a level 15 commoner for a very simple reason: He is immortal. Cursed by the Gods to live to see judgement day, the commoner is more than ten thousand years old. Every generation or so, he has whacked a goblin over the head with a hoe, and eventually those accidental xps just added up. He likes farming, and is darn good at it by now, so he doesn't really miss the excitement that he could have had if he had chosen differently. He REALLY likes to discuss the finer points of joint weather pains and the mottled pig pox. He can regale you for hours on any number of similarly exciting topics.
He's that one guy in the crowd who always manages to escape the monster of the week and when it's defeated he gets a share of the xp for being there.
Check out my NPCs get xp too rant here which has lots of links among them Toothless Joe a 12th-level commoner (with backstory) , the fabled bartender (com15)and the glorious Commoner campaign(actual play though only up to low/med levels).
As "average normal life" results in lvl6-8 venerable commoners with the Different advancement theories from the rant (one by paizo's own SKR btw), why should not some commoners rise to 10,15 or even 20 if their lives where sufficiently interesting/challenging and they never got or even wanted any special training?
Again I'm reminded of the servants accompanying some of the heroes in Steven Brust's awesome Khaavren Romances. (Weapon focus barstool anyone?)
Well, if the bartender is also the barkeep, he'd have levels in expert and warrior.
The heart of any adventure is its encounters. An encounter is any event that puts a specific problem before the PCs that they must solve. Most encounters present combat with monsters or hostile NPCs, but there are many other types—a trapped corridor, a political interaction with a suspicious king, a dangerous passage over a rickety rope bridge, an awkward argument with a friendly NPC who suspects a PC has betrayed him, or anything that adds drama to the game. Brain-teasing puzzles, roleplaying challenges, and skill checks are all classic methods for resolving encounters, but the most complex encounters to build are the most common ones—combat encounters.
Characters advance in level by defeating monsters, overcoming challenges, and completing adventures—in so doing, they earn experience points (XP for short). Although you can award experience points as soon as a challenge is overcome, this can quickly disrupt the flow of game play. It's easier to simply award experience points at the end of a game session—that way, if a character earns enough XP to gain a level, he won't disrupt the game while he levels up his character. He can instead take the time between game sessions to do that.
Nowhere in the rules does it say that you have to defeat a single monster or do any adventuring to gain experience. NPCs can gain levels by overcoming any challenge that being a commoner would face, such as a bad harvest, a horse stuck in the mud, or an argument with the neighbors.
I would imagine that a high level commoner is simply an NPC who has a great deal of experience to share, a lot of knowledge ranks or profession ranks, and is simply not that easy to kill. Experience can certainly make you wily.
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He was a conscripted soldier who nevertheless managed to survive (through a combination of luck and shovel swinging skill) through battle after battle of being thrown at the enemy as arrow fodder.
Years later, he's gained enough skill and experience to be considered a demi-god among farmers, an old war hero who puts all those town guardsman "Warriors" to shame.
Whenever the monsters come a knockin' around his village, he picks up his trusty spade and goes to town on the poor bastards who never knew what hit them.
They call him the bane of Goblins, the terror of Orcs, and the king of Cabbages: Captaaaaaain Commoner!!!!!
Hmm, this sounds more like The Shoveler to me ;)
Sometimes, a commoner may find adventure when he didn't expect it.
The old guy guarding the breach in the Wall in Stardust was definitely a 15th Level Commoner :)
"Dustin did this to you? He's ninety years old!"
"Well, he's had plenty of time to practice then..."My real issue with the Commoner class is that the Expert is always described as the class for skilled professionals, and there's no functional difference between Commoners and Experts with equal ranks in Craft/Profession. Not to get all grognard-ey, but I prefer having 0-level humans for the peasant roles.
Hmm, this sounds more like The Shoveler to me ;)
Who?
Ah. I remember the bowling ball guy and the "invisible" one, but not the Shoveler. That movie came out forever ago.
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You remember the bowling ball chick, and if you don't remember the Shoveler's rousing speech before the climax, you haven't watched it enough.
Came out forever ago? I must be three forevers old, then.
Seriously, I remember when the Mystery Men did guest appearances in Flaming Carrot . . .
No, I haven't watched it enough. I watched it once, when it was new. Which was 13 years ago. Excuse me if I don't remember every character from a decent comedy that came out over a decade ago.
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Well, if the bartender is also the barkeep, he'd have levels in expert and warrior.
Why? Just because paizo's example barkeep has levels in expert and warrior?
Also expert vs commoner is a matter of breadth of knowledge not competence at a single profession or craft. (As explained in the comparioson between old ENWolrd xxx over a lifetime threads from my rant port)
Well, if the bartender is also the barkeep, he'd have levels in expert and warrior.Why? Just because paizo's example barkeep has levels in expert and warrior?
Also expert vs commoner is a matter of breadth of knowledge not competence at a single profession or craft. (As explained in the comparioson between old ENWolrd xxx over a lifetime threads from my rant port)
Yup. That's exactly why. I'm going off of precedent.
Also, the other difference between a commoner and expert is weapon and armor proficiencies. A commoner is proficient in a single simple weapon and no armors or shields. An expert is proficient in all simple weapons and light armor (but no shields).
So in light of that, I'm also trying to go off of what a barkeep would do - s/he runs a bar, but also likely runs an inn. S/he has to be good at record keeping, hiring people, throwing the riff-raff out when they get too roudy (which likely requires proficiency in one or more weapons, such as a cudgel and a sap), s/he may or may not also cook. And depending on how rough the bar can get with the drunks (and how high of level the drunks are), knowledge of wearing armor would also be useful.
Or, it could just be a person who was hired by the barkeep to serve drinks behind a bar - aka a bartender. This would just be an individual who stood there and made drinks, without having to do any of the rest of the stuff the owner would have to do. And if it was in a higher class neighborhood, there might be less rowdiness going on. That would make perfect sense if s/he was a single class commoner the entire time.
And that's why I threw out the "if x was actually y, then..." clause.
Well, if the bartender is also the barkeep, he'd have levels in expert and warrior.Why? Just because paizo's example barkeep has levels in expert and warrior?
Also expert vs commoner is a matter of breadth of knowledge not competence at a single profession or craft. (As explained in the comparioson between old ENWolrd xxx over a lifetime threads from my rant port)
Yup. That's exactly why. I'm going off of precedent.
Also, the other difference between a commoner and expert is weapon and armor proficiencies. A commoner is proficient in a single simple weapon and no armors or shields. An expert is proficient in all simple weapons and light armor (but no shields).
So in light of that, I'm also trying to go off of what a barkeep would do - s/he runs a bar, but also likely runs an inn. S/he has to be good at record keeping, hiring people, throwing the riff-raff out when they get too roudy (which likely requires proficiency in one or more weapons, such as a cudgel and a sap), s/he may or may not also cook. And depending on how rough the bar can get with the drunks (and how high of level the drunks are), knowledge of wearing armor would also be useful.
Or, it could just be a person who was hired by the barkeep to serve drinks behind a bar - aka a bartender. This would just be an individual who stood there and made drinks, without having to do any of the rest of the stuff the owner would have to do. And if it was in a higher class neighborhood, there might be less rowdiness going on. That would make perfect sense if s/he was a single class commoner the entire time.
And that's why I threw out the "if x was actually y, then..." clause.
Your barkeep has greatly expanded what he does. Your barkeep is now an innkeeper, that is also a cook, enforcer, and many other things.
Note that your simple barkeep, can take Feats, Simple Weapon Proficiency, Armor Proficiency Light, (Medium and Heavy)...
As for skills, a Commoner gets 2+Int, +1 for favorite class. Bartending, Perception, Profession(Bar Owner). Maybe Brewing if he brews his own beer. Hiring people, is quick and easy, and if they don't work out, you fire them. On the spot. Then hire someone else.
You are trying to over complicate the running of a bar.
Well, if the bartender is also the barkeep, he'd have levels in expert and warrior.Why? Just because paizo's example barkeep has levels in expert and warrior?
Also expert vs commoner is a matter of breadth of knowledge not competence at a single profession or craft. (As explained in the comparioson between old ENWolrd xxx over a lifetime threads from my rant port)
Yup. That's exactly why. I'm going off of precedent.
Also, the other difference between a commoner and expert is weapon and armor proficiencies. A commoner is proficient in a single simple weapon and no armors or shields. An expert is proficient in all simple weapons and light armor (but no shields).
So in light of that, I'm also trying to go off of what a barkeep would do - s/he runs a bar, but also likely runs an inn. S/he has to be good at record keeping, hiring people, throwing the riff-raff out when they get too roudy (which likely requires proficiency in one or more weapons, such as a cudgel and a sap), s/he may or may not also cook. And depending on how rough the bar can get with the drunks (and how high of level the drunks are), knowledge of wearing armor would also be useful.
Or, it could just be a person who was hired by the barkeep to serve drinks behind a bar - aka a bartender. This would just be an individual who stood there and made drinks, without having to do any of the rest of the stuff the owner would have to do. And if it was in a higher class neighborhood, there might be less rowdiness going on. That would make perfect sense if s/he was a single class commoner the entire time.
And that's why I threw out the "if x was actually y, then..." clause.
Your barkeep has greatly expanded what he does. Your barkeep is now an innkeeper, that is also a cook, enforcer, and many other things.
Note that your simple barkeep, can take Feats, Simple...
It's not my barkeep:
A barkeep is the proprietor of an alehouse, saloon, or tavern, often with an inn attached. While some are sly, weasel-like, and unfriendly, most are garrulous raconteurs, seeking to entertain their customers with a story or joke and keep them happy and drinking. With patrons from across the world visiting their taverns, most barkeeps know a smattering of other languages to communicate with foreigners from far-away lands.
Barkeeps are used to trouble in their establishments, for drink often brings out the worst in their customers, and most barkeeps are used to facing down and intimidating drunks and bullies. For times when words fail, a good barkeep keeps a weapon beneath the bar, and is not afraid to use it.
The barkeep is quite literally the owner of the shop. The bartender is just the person that tends the bar. :)
It's not my barkeep:
Game Master Guide wrote:A barkeep is the proprietor of an alehouse, saloon, or tavern, often with an inn attached. While some are sly, weasel-like, and unfriendly, most are garrulous raconteurs, seeking to entertain their customers with a story or joke and keep them happy and drinking. With patrons from across the world visiting their taverns, most barkeeps know a smattering of other languages to communicate with foreigners from far-away lands.
Barkeeps are used to trouble in their establishments, for drink often brings out the worst in their customers, and most barkeeps are used to facing down and intimidating drunks and bullies. For times when words fail, a good barkeep keeps a weapon beneath the bar, and is not afraid to use it.
The barkeep is quite literally the owner of the shop. The bartender is just the person that tends the bar. :)
Link
I'm more surprised by the Drunkard. Who knew that Otis from the Andy Griffith show was a second level warrior.
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I'm more surprised by the Drunkard. Who knew that Otis from the Andy Griffith show was a second level warrior.It's not my barkeep:
Game Master Guide wrote:A barkeep is the proprietor of an alehouse, saloon, or tavern, often with an inn attached. While some are sly, weasel-like, and unfriendly, most are garrulous raconteurs, seeking to entertain their customers with a story or joke and keep them happy and drinking. With patrons from across the world visiting their taverns, most barkeeps know a smattering of other languages to communicate with foreigners from far-away lands.
Barkeeps are used to trouble in their establishments, for drink often brings out the worst in their customers, and most barkeeps are used to facing down and intimidating drunks and bullies. For times when words fail, a good barkeep keeps a weapon beneath the bar, and is not afraid to use it.
The barkeep is quite literally the owner of the shop. The bartender is just the person that tends the bar. :)
Link
Perhaps the drunk is just an old vet with a bit of PTSD and turned to alcohol? "You don't know the things I've seen, man."
In One Episode/Movie Scene Otis showed to be pretty handy in a Scrap.
Though he couldn't hit the Broadside of a Barn with a Shotgun... Or a Nuke...
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So ummm would homer simpson have levels of expert?
he's done ALL sorts of things (even an astronaut)
MAYBE...HOMER is the 15th level commoner???
He's got like 1 skill point in....EVERYTHING
Holy Crap On A Cracker! Homer is a 15th Level Commoner!? Though he would only have 15 Skill Ranks simply for his lower INT... Or would he have Higher INT and literally a 1-3 WIS?
Low-low-LOW Inteligence! But, for some reason, virtually unlimited Hero Points!
He is a Nuclear Power Plant Engineer... But seems to have no common sense... I mean less than Sheldon Cooper.
one of you build masters should stat out homer ....15th level commoner, 10 pt build.
The basic NPC Stat Line is only an 11 Point Buy...
In Freeport, the 15th level commoner runs the Last Resort, a swanky hotel. Probably the highest level canon NPC I've seen.
The basic NPC Stat Line is only an 11 Point Buy...
That's the Heroic NPC line, ain't it?
Pretty sure Basic is a 3 Point Buy.
Nope.
Heroic: 15 PBS
Basic: 11 PBS
I figured it and hit the floor laughing. Though I could be wrong.
In Freeport, the 15th level commoner runs the Last Resort, a swanky hotel. Probably the highest level canon NPC I've seen.
Wait so there is a 15th level commoner in print.... what book is that in??