I pray I am not too late!
I have some further questions regarding the greater action economy of larger parties
Shackled Hut seems to have several solo encounters, some of which I am struggling to think of sensible ways to make more challenging for larger groups. This is partly because the nature of the encounter suggests that adding more foes would not make sense:
Solo mirror man - I figured they were only in patrols of one?
Winter wolf with escaped slave - Perhaps it would not be too unusual to make this a mated pair of wolves
Wikkawak - Is mentioned in the text as a loner. The easy fix would be tp add one or more wikkawaks (Due to space requirements (trolls being very big) I may add more of these elsewhere including with Logrivich)
Troll leader - Has personal quarters. I figured perhaps add a trollhound or two...
Attic whisperer - perhaps she could join Granny since it is effectively a "second familiar"
Gobbler - I cannot think of how to toughen this up other than putting Granny (and potentially Whisperer) all in the same room.
Out of interest does Hardness in this instance mean the Gobbler effectively has DR 10?Logrivich - considering adding Mierul from Snows (as she was released by PCs) and/or Wikkawaks / Ice trolls
Bragda (leader of patrol in forest area) - I can't think of why a patrol would be led by 2 wolves
If anyone has any thoughts or tips for me I would appreciate it.
Thanks
The Mirror Man patrol is simple, just add in more Mirror Men, +1 = +1 CR, and run it similarly to "Checkpoint" with one running interference while the other runs.
Level 2 of the Clocktower basically all three encounters could easily happen simultaneously. Base it on time of day and perception checks. Morning/Noon/Evening Granny Nan is cooking. Mid-day she's in her bedroom telling Whisperer stories, and Night she's asleep.
Wikkawak slap on Advanced template, keep true to his spirit, or give him a Trollhound, or both.
Bragda is an RP encounter...?
Troll Leader, reference Wikkawak
Lorgrovich... Oh how I have been trying to figure that one out... Previous posts have some wicked ideas for him, and throwing Mierul in could be cool. I was going to continuously have Mierul be a thorn in their side that they liked too much to kill (which is why she's still alive in my game). I was also toying with some Stockholme Syndrome with Belvorca. Any thoughts?
Previously Tangent mentioned posters.. Mierul has given descriptions of the party members she thinks to be alive to the guards in Whitethrone, and Wanted posters have been made. And actually I'd like some feedback on them if anyone is willing to help, PM me.
And finally now for the real question I had, also regarding the Clocktower, and sort of in response to Lanathar:
Perception while near the tower is at a -5 due to the grinding of gears and machinery. DC to hear a battle is -10. Through a door is a +5 to the DC, and walls are +10/ft thickness, (but having two doors should count as two doors or would it count as one wall?) +1/10 ft away from source. For the Caryatid Columns this makes the initial Perception check a -10+5+5+5+5(+5) roughly, making it only a 10 (or 15) for the first trolls to hear them outside. Shouldn't the Clocktower be a series of enemies rushing out from their relaxation to join the fray? Now... This could be altered to a DC 20 if the trolls are asleep (say they arrive early morning, as I was going to have the goblinoids and giants up from noon-3am, and Granny Nan from 8am-10pm. Giving my players a feasible window to assault the clocktower stealthily.)
Then upstairs I added the already the already mentioned trap repaired by a clockwork servant, I added Hestrig from book 1, the troll leader and the dragon is one category older now
I feel blasphemous for saying this, but isn't THAT a bit much for a party of 6th level characters?
Just got to Logrivich. Game is really enjoyable so far. I have some notes/questions:
I think I messed up the Greta encounter horribly. One PC has a Rime Pelt but rolled horribly on bluff to explain who the rest of the group were.
Should he have been questioned about them at all.
I then has Greta hint at a bribe and the pelt wearer lost his head and offered 1,000 gp and a masterwork sword. This stunned the rest of the group (probably rightly being around 40 times the recommended bribe). I got swayed by the discussion that suggested that the level of bribe would arouse real suspicion as to what they were trying to do / keep quite.
I had Greta tell the pelt wearer to go, saying she didn't care what he was into / trying to cover for if he got out of site. She called her colleague and approached the others.
I wasn't sure what to do so I had her ask for the fish cart (taking all the PCs gear from them and forcing them to think of away around it seemed like an idea)
One PC then asked for a receipt. (Too far). She gave him the receipt in the form of the Greataxe (too far by me I think, should have been non-lethal).
It then kicked off as the Paladin couldn't let it slide a started to attack Greta. Pelt wearer unsuccessfully tried to grapple the paladin as the other PCs stood desperately, doing nothing to try and stop things getting worse.
Things started to get a little nasty out of character (some players take criticism from others far too badly considering it is only a game).
This, plus some of the mistakes I felt I made, and the fact I couldn't see anyway that the situation could resolve itself without a TPK (or all all but the pelt wearer dead), meant I called it and we re-ran the scenario
Sorry for the long ramble, but what I was wondering if how would other people have played it?
Specifically how people have a guard react to a massively over-inflated bribe...?
As mentioned above my recent game almost unraveled at the Howlings entrance.
In the end my group made it to the top of the clock tower and defeated Logrivich, however the aftermath has left me a little flummoxed
Context: The group ignored the tower rooms (leaving the trolls alone when requested). I assumed a dash to the top was fine as the gears meant the trolls did not hear enough.
Now I upped Logrivich from Young to Young Adult as my group was completely fresh and had a Paladin with very high Charisma and 2 fire using wizards (and I had insufficient planning time to think of appropriate minions to add). The jump was probably a little too much as the SR20 rendered the wizards largely ineffectual.
Tactics didn't help. Paladin started by challenging the dragon to single combat. Was eventually joined by one of the wizards who was dragged off the tower and then mauled to death
Later on the second wizard positioned himself badly and suffered and identical fate
I forgot fog cloud and so Logrivich too lots of Smite boosted arrows.
He bull-rushed the fighter off the tower (who used ring of feather fall to float to the bottom) and then got 2 full attacks on the Paladin. Attacking simultaneously to Logrivich the paladin spent a hero point to hit with a killing blow as she was being torn to pieces. This hero point means she was unable to use hero points to cheat death so died outright
Now my problem: None of the rest of the party saw the paladin or Logrivich die. They have no idea what has happened. The two wizards are cowardly at the best of times but with less than 10 HP and fresh memory of Logrivich they are unlikely to head up to the tower until rested.
What is the best way to make sure the Paladin player has something to do in the next game?
It seems odd to make them create a character potentially for only one game if the old one is revived.
Also the creation of a new character might tempt them to ditch the old one (as I have been keeping character the same level and the new one would not have negative levels...)
I would appreciate any advice people could give me
Alright, Lanathar. I have a tendency of giving you advice far too late, but I suppose this is what I would have done.
For Greta, first question, I don't think she usually questions the entourages of winter wolves, unless they are just acting super suspicious. (Granted, which PCs do all the time.) Next, I don't think she'd mind accepting a massive bribe. She doesn't seem like one to look a gift horse in the mouth. Besides, that's treasure the PCs aren't using to mess up your campaign. :P I mean, the business of accepting bribes for security to not pay attention to you is predicated on personal greed. For that price, they should have easily been able to sneak an elephant into Whitethrone, much less a fishcart and some murderhobos. Just have her eyes momentarily go wide with shock, then quickly recover and gracefully accept. For bonus points, she seeks them out later, but looking for a date because the big spender piqued her interest.
Re: Logrivich's aftermath. So, the PCs don't know the paladin is dead. The players know his character died, right? Simply ask the group, out of character. Do they plan to raise the paladin? Does the paladin want to be raised? As long as you have mature players who don't overreact to out of character knowledge, I can't think of anything that can go wrong with this. Let him build a new character if he wants.
Thanks for the help :)
The points on Greta are fair enough and indicate that I was correct in my assessment that I had played it wrong on at least 2 levels, once by questioning the entourage and another time by not accepting the massive bribe
As for Logrivich aftermath I am going to try and ask my PCs but it is difficult to gather them for responses. I am having the player draw up a back up just in case. I really want to turn a dead PC into a soulbound doll (because it would be hilarious). But they can't be lawful so that messes with the paladin rather harshly
I already know that the two wizards are not going to want to go back up (especially as they haven't cleared the tower, even the statues)
Fighter might be crazy enough
Brings me to another point. 2 PCs did not make the last session (Paladin and druid with companion)
Do people recommend I just pretend they were part of the group, or make them find a way in. There doesn't seem to be any other sensible explanation for them turning up in the next session
In my game the party did not wear the Rimepelt, had their weapons hidden and made good skill check rolls, and simply walked right by Greta. I'm not sure how to incorporate her later in the adventure, she's a great character that my party simply skipped by.
I'm thinking that they will run into her in wolf form, and she will be a lonely girl, not attacking who will complain about no good men winter wolf men around. Maybe she will acquire a way to shape change into a human, I need to think of something good to not miss the NPC opportunity.
One suggestion is to put into their story that they met the White or the Red Rider under similar circumstances. Dream visions or the like are good too. (Of course, if anybody has a +2 bonus, then everybody should.)
Another is to simply give the character(s) a story reason for wanting to find Baba Yaga, and have faith that your players want to play your game. The geas and the meeting with the Black Rider are just a kickstart to the mystical plot, and aren't really required to keep the plot moving. There are some things that "trigger" off seeing servants of Baba Yaga, but most of those should be easy to work to your liking.
Hey gang,
I had a PM about a question on Nazhena's spells. I thought I would share this with everyone.
She looks like she has ice storm as an illegal 3rd level spell, but I think it got flipped for wall of ice, which thanks to her hyperboreal patronage is a 3rd level spell. But wall of ice is listed as a 4th level spell. So if you flip those two spells around, I think she is street legal...
(okay that sounded better in my head)
Sorry and thanks!
Developer
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Actually, her stat block is correct. She gets ice storm as a 3rd-level spell at 6th level from her winter patron (Ultimate Magic 83). The winter witch prestige class's hyperboreal patronage adds those spells to a winter witch's spell list at the listed class levels, not as spells of that level, so wall of ice is a still a 4th level spell, but it was added to Nazhena's spell list when she took her third level in the prestige class (she also gets it from her patron at 6th level, so either way she gets it, but it's still a 4th-level spell).
Sorry, Jim. :)
Rob is correct. I got the same PM a couple of days ago and explained it the same way...presumably to the same guy. I think he took a scattershot approach by pinging every author who worked on Reign of Winter.
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Sorry, Jim. :)
Rob McCreary, eight ball, corner pocket!
Edit: I don't mind being wrong. It just shows that our developers are really looking this material over to the best of their ability and trying to make sure things are accurate. We look at these GM threads and people ferret out all these little mistakes, it's really cool to see "No, that's not a mistake. That's correct."
And as a saving grace (for myself), many archetype/prestige class combinations are complex and this is no exception. This is why we have professional developers looking this stuff over.
And for what it's worth, Neil, after I asked you I realized nobody in your adventure was high enough level to get ice storm (our GM had raised Radosek's CR, using later winter witches as a guide). So I assumed you wouldn't necessarily know the answer, and I asked Jim. I was actually trying not to bother too many people with this.
No worries. I didn't mean to imply you'd done anything wrong. I was just trying to let Jim know that a few of us had received the same question. We all jumped in to help. That's just how Paizo's developers and freelancers tend to roll. ;)
I just ran the fish camps and hit a verbal snag when they asked who the leader of the fish guards was.
"Marcian Enarxian!" I didn't catch the rhyming until I said it out loud.
The party all agreed he needed to die based on his silly sounding rhyming name alone.
My 4th-level party just defeated Radosek and claimed all of his loot, at great cost. The archer was blinded, and the fighter cursed with -6 Con. (To say nothing of the curse that they'll be afflicted with once they work through all the treasure.) Both of these are permanent, and take a 5th-level character to fix. How should I proceed?
I'm comfortable leaving the curse on for a session or two - there are penalties for breaking into a witch's hoard. There's a good chance that will be solved at encounter A, anyway.
There is a Dispel Magic scroll in the hoard that might remove the effect of Radosek's Blindness spell. I don't want the archer to flounder too much, as he already spent this last session fairly useless. If the Dispel doesn't take, how can I smoothly work in a solution to Blindness?
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My 4th-level party just defeated Radosek and claimed all of his loot, at great cost. The archer was blinded, and the fighter cursed with -6 Con. (To say nothing of the curse that they'll be afflicted with once they work through all the treasure.) Both of these are permanent, and take a 5th-level character to fix. How should I proceed?
I'm comfortable leaving the curse on for a session or two - there are penalties for breaking into a witch's hoard. There's a good chance that will be solved at encounter A, anyway.
There is a Dispel Magic scroll in the hoard that might remove the effect of Radosek's Blindness spell. I don't want the archer to flounder too much, as he already spent this last session fairly useless. If the Dispel doesn't take, how can I smoothly work in a solution to Blindness?
If the blindness is a real concern and you don't want to risk dispel magic failing, you can replace the scroll of dispel magic in Radosek's hoard with a scroll of remove blindness. If they've already got the dispel magic scroll and you don't want to retcon it, they could always meet a traveling wizard who would trade a scroll of remove blindness for the dispel magic scroll.
For the curse, the huldra Sylgja in "The Shackled Hut" has a scroll of remove curse that she will give the PCs as a reward for helping her. It might mean the curse stays for a bit longer than the PC would want, but the solution is there near the beginning of the adventure.
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I don't follow. The patron description says that they get the spells added to their spells known at the listed levels but does not say that it changes the spell level, which would mean that Ice Storm is still a 4th level spell. The only difference I see between this and the Winter Witch's Hyperboreal Patronage ability is that Hyperboreal Patronage only adds it to their list while the Winter Patron adds it to their known spells (i.e. don't have to make a check to learn it). I still don't see anything that changes the spell level in either case.Actually, her stat block is correct. She gets ice storm as a 3rd-level spell at 6th level from her winter patron (Ultimate Magic 83). The winter witch prestige class's hyperboreal patronage adds those spells to a winter witch's spell list at the listed class levels, not as spells of that level, so wall of ice is a still a 4th level spell, but it was added to Nazhena's spell list when she took her third level in the prestige class (she also gets it from her patron at 6th level, so either way she gets it, but it's still a 4th-level spell).
Sorry, Jim. :)
It's true that the patron description doesn't say the patron spells change their level, but a 6th-level winter witch cannot cast a 4th-level spell. All of the witch patrons grant nine spells at points when a witch can cast them - spells which, for the most part, a witch would not otherwise be able to cast. It doesn't make sense for a patron to grant a spell that a witch can't cast. All witches get ice storm as a 4th-level spell; winter witches get it at one level lower because they are winter witches, and it fits their theme (and ice storm is not that powerful of a 4th-level spell anyway).
Thanks for the tip, Rob. I think I know what I'll do for the Blindness.
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Finally kicked off this one today, took a month off after finishing Snows of Summer. I could do with some thoughts on the Jinkin encounter, which will be the start of our next session.
I appreciate that the little darlings have a decent stealth bonus and should be able to get into the camp without any PCs spotting them, but there are also eighteen sled dogs in the camp, and all of them have scent. As far as I can tell detecting with scent is more or less automatic as soon as anything comes within range, Wis checks are only required to track rather than find, is this correct?
Assuming that this is so, I figure that the jinkins will have to scope out the camp from range (60'+), and then dimension door into the area to commit their mischief. The dogs will sound the alarm immediately, leaving the creatures to get out of the camp on foot as they can only d'door once per hour, and it's at this point that the PCs will most probably see them.
Does all this sound about right? Does the hour casting time for the tinker have to spent in the camp, or can they do the majority of it whilst hidden and finish it after the dimension door?
Scent depends on the wind. Also, smell is gradual. If there is no wind, then unless the Jinkins walk by the dogs, they won't be smelled by them. If there is a wind, then they're smart enough to stay downwind of the dogs and thus not be smelled by them.
Scent is really dependent on the situation. I know the rules may make it seem otherwise... but while scent might allow someone to smell an invisible person and track it... I don't think it should negate invisibility or a very good stealth roll.
Not to mention there's plenty of trees and such to roll in. Thus they could just disguise their scent to seem like the surroundings. That might mean for a Disguise Check as well, mind you... ;)
If they're stupid enough not to have multiple guards or to use the dogs to full extent? They deserve it.
Of course, I think Dimension Door can carry others along, can't it? If so, then a couple Jinkins dimension door in with their companions, they do an ambush with the curses and spoilage, and then dimension door out with their buddies bringing the two who initially led them in.
While the scent entry implies an auto-detect without 15 to 60 ft, under Perception you'll find that Scent "merely" gives a +8 to perception checks where it applies.
Sneaking up on a creature with scent is hard but it's still possible.
I'm guessing that scent trumps invisibility, but it's not stated.
A dog that's asleep has a net -2 on its check to notice strangers walking around it.
Invisibility gives a +20 to Stealth. Scent in essence reduces that to a +12. It makes sense - an invisibility ring allowed Bilbo Baggins to sneak around Goblins, but Smaug, who could smell him, couldn't immediately find him.
One of the players in my game just started playing his replacement PC, a 20 or 22 int jadwiga Iron Guard 6th level hexcrafter blackblade magus.
I have some concerns that his slumber hex will be encounter bypassing for a lot of this. He's already instantly shut down a winter wolf and with the Logrivich tower coming up I'm seeing a lot of +2 will save ice trolls, a +1 trollhound, a +3 wikawak, and the advanced Amagarra is only a +4 will save. I foresee a lot of easy one shot slumbers. Even Gran is only +9 will vs. his DC 18 or 19 slumber.
The columns, attic whisperer, gobbler, and logrivich are immune but one shot SoD effects are pretty boring to the flow of a good combat and this is only a minor power of his, his main focus is on magically stabbing people.
With a possible 6th player joining and everybody being the epic point buy I'm thinking I need to boost the number of enemies for the tower and perhaps give Amagarra, Gran, and Logrivich some sort of hero point mechanics.
Make them Mythic and using Mythic Surge to enhance saving throws.
Re Greta. There is another way to make the rime pelt semi-permanent.
Clone. It takes 2d4 months to grow, but could be cast daily i suppose. And by temporal stasis one of the winter wolves, the others would grow up dead and thus easier to skin.
So thats still a 2hours/day... and a room full of ~150 heterochromatic winter wolf clones in various stages of growth.
I've set the village of Ellsprin on the coast of Glacier Lake, and offered to let my PCs travel by water rather than by dogsled. I doubt they'll take the opportunity, as the dogsleds have been working well for them. Nevertheless, does anybody have some ideas for fun water encounters? Scrags and Merrows probably figure heavily.
Forgery question!
I assume the DCs on p. 30 are to see through the forged papers (20 for slave papers, 15 for guest papers).
I'm trying to figure out how those DCs were arrived at, should the PCs decide to do their own forging.
Mortin's a 7th level expert 4/wizard 3, so I'd guess he has a 16 or 18 int (starting 15 or 17, +1 from leveling) and maxed ranked in linguistics, which is presumably a class skill for him. A 16 int would give him a +13 on the check. Assuming he doesn't have skill focus or a spell that helps him!
On top of that...
Forgery requires writing materials appropriate to the document being forged. To forge a document on which the handwriting is not specific to a person, you need only to have seen a similar document before, and you gain a +8 bonus on your check. To forge a signature, you need an autograph of that person to copy, and you gain a +4 bonus on the check.
I guess I'm confused as to whether Mortin gets the benefit of either clause. I would expect Mortin to get the latter on the noble/guest documents because he's using arcane marks on those. And he's probably forging signatures on the slave documents, too.
But with that being the case, if Mortin's taking 10 then the DC to see through his forgeries should be at least a 27, while the actual DC is much lower.
I'd also expect the guards to not really have any bonuses - while they'd get the +2 for being familiar with the forms, they'd get -2 for not being familiar with the handwriting on the forms (unless all of the papers are done by one or two people), and some guards might even get an additional -2 penalty for looking it over quickly.
So, I'm a little confused - either Mortin's actually pretty bad at forgery and the bard should do it himself once they're there and can see the forms - or there are huge circumstance penalties going on that I can't figure out, and that'll matter if the bard does it himself. The bard's check should be a +10 or so by the time the party gets to Whitethrone.
I am just starting The Shackled Hut with my party, and have a quick high level question. It seems like two of the maps are HUGE; The Howlings and the Market Square both being about 30x40 squares, where 1 square is 10 feet. We are doing this all with pen and paper, not the ever popular roll20, and the rate of 1" = 5 feet, these are both considerably larger than our play area. I'm actually intending to use bwatford's printable maps, which I used for the Pale Tower with great success.
Any tips on how to make this workable? It seems like the Market Square might be made modular, but The Howlings is a huge and contiguous space.
Thanks!
I am just starting The Shackled Hut with my party, and have a quick high level question. It seems like two of the maps are HUGE; The Howlings and the Market Square both being about 30x40 squares, where 1 square is 10 feet. We are doing this all with pen and paper, not the ever popular roll20, and the rate of 1" = 5 feet, these are both considerably larger than our play area. I'm actually intending to use bwatford's printable maps, which I used for the Pale Tower with great success.
Any tips on how to make this workable? It seems like the Market Square might be made modular, but The Howlings is a huge and contiguous space.
Thanks!
How I intend to use the howlings maps is to print them off and number the back of each page. I figured they could see the page they were on and one page around in each direction. As they move I will remove the pages they have moved away from and put down the new areas they see.
There is no way to put 70+ pages on the table at the same time. lol.
Banging head on table.... *BAM BAM BAM*
The market square is actually bigger than the howlings....
But you know I will have to map it when my group gets there.... * sigh *
My players are really spoiled.
Looks pretty easy to map however. Will have to wait and see how it turns out.
Use Roll20.net
My party played the first three events of The Shackled Hut last night, and it's great so far. They specifically commented that the encounters were varied and awesome, which was great.
Absolutely hilarious, and rewarding for the player who's had a string of bad rolls and not much to do. :)
My party played the first three events of The Shackled Hut last night, and it's great so far. They specifically commented that the encounters were varied and awesome, which was great.
** spoiler omitted **
Glad to hear it Bothari!
And take credit for yourself! Its a good GM that finds ways to encourage players that experience bad luck. Probability is much more "swingy" at low levels. I struggle with depressed players as a GM too. They often think they built crummy characters and I have to keep pointing out, "Dude, you rolled a four! That's not your character's fault!"
Here's a glimpse at the mockup I did for the players for The Haunted Village encounter on the way to Whitethrone.
Reign of Winter - The Shackled Hut - The Haunted Village - 3D Terrain Image.