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Most of what I have learned was HERE
I hope it's okay to post a tiny excerpt here but if not, Please let me know and remove it.
She (Baba Yaga) left Golarion, handing power to her eldest daughter, Jadwiga, who proved herself every bit as capable and cruel as her mother, and established the nation of Irrisen as it's known today.
Baba Yaga's descendants are known today as Jadwiga, taking their name from Irrisen's first queen, though many outsiders incorrectly translate the term as "children of the witch-mother."
They're the descendants of Baba Yaga, according to Cities of Golarion. The family of the current queen are top of the heap, while the families of previous queens are lower status.
I haven't read Shackled Hut in enough detail to know if it's mentioned there yet. Still waiting for the physical book.
It's also explained some in People of the North.
Another thing to note is that in Irrisen pretty much any Jadwiga even the disgraced or poor ones can claim superior authority over any other people. So if you wanted to roleplay it, a level 1 Jadwiga can with relative security order around much higher level Frost Giants or Winter Wolves.
humans, although with ARG you can 'tweak' their humaness if you like... but there are just humans.
They do have a trait or 2, I forget what they are but I know one is a bonus to Intimidate.
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Hold on just realised being the desendents of Baba Yaga would make the Jadwiga Earthlings right?
Well not necessarily, Rumor has it, Earth was populated by aliens (Baba Yaga and her kind) so maybe all humans on earth are actually from Golarion?
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Following up on the Rimepelt/Greta questions:
The actual Beast Shape property of the Rimepelt is a one-shot, right?
When the wearer returns to his normal form, or after 2 hours have elapsed, the rimepelt becomes a mundane winter wolf peltThat doesn't seem to mesh with the suggested use of the rimepelt for infiltration. Do you have to use the transformation from the rimepelt to be mistaken for Winter Wolf, or is just wearing the thing enough?
The first makes sense, since it turns you into a Winter Wolf (and then, within the Howlings you can turn into a human-formed winter wolf), but leaves you very limited, since you can only do it once for 2 hours.
The second is how it is written, "except for a character wearing a rimepelt, whom Greta believes to be a winter wolf", but makes little sense: Why would just wearing a winter wolf pelt make anyone believe you were a winter wolf? And it doesn't match the item description.
This was covered in an earlier question of mine.
Pc puts on rime pelt, allowing him to transform into winter wolf, in the howlings he can be in human form, so he just walks up and says hello, look human but smells like a winter wolf, due to the magic of the transformation.
You cant just wear a dead non magical wolf pelt on him, that would be the equivalent of leatherface killing the president of the united states and trying to wear his dead skin to impersonate him.... its not going to fly.
On the note of the one-time nature of the Rime Pelts: Has anyone done cost calculations on making one a bit more permanent?
My group's just starting out, but they've got a Forgemaster cleric, and I know them well enough to be sure that they're most-likely going to love Greta enough to want to get her to come along. Doing so's going to require not only a less one-shot method of disguise for the PCs, at least initially, but also some variation on it to be crafted for Greta herself.
With a crafting expert on the team, simply paying more to craft a more permanently-useful magical item is likely going to be the most logical choice for them. So I figured I'd check to see if anyone had done the pricing before I bothered to figure it out myself.
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On the note of the one-time nature of the Rime Pelts: Has anyone done cost calculations on making one a bit more permanent?
My group's just starting out, but they've got a Forgemaster cleric, and I know them well enough to be sure that they're most-likely going to love Greta enough to want to get her to come along. Doing so's going to require not only a less one-shot method of disguise for the PCs, at least initially, but also some variation on it to be crafted for Greta herself.
With a crafting expert on the team, simply paying more to craft a more permanently-useful magical item is likely going to be the most logical choice for them. So I figured I'd check to see if anyone had done the pricing before I bothered to figure it out myself.
One of the reasons we made the rimepelt a one-shot item was to keep the price down for a 4th-level adventure. Making a permanent, or continuous, version would be significantly more expensive.
Beast shape IV is a 6th-level spell. Using the standard magic item crafting costs, spell level 6 x caster level 11 x 2,000 for a continuous item = 132,000 gp. Since the duration of beast shape IV is 1 minute/level, the price is then doubled to 264,000 gp.
Obviously, a crafter just has to pay half that, so it drops back down to 132,000 gp, but that's still almost equal to the total of a 13th-level PC. But being able to change into Large magical beast as often as you want with no time limit ain't cheap!
Hm, very expensive indeed. I can still imagine them going for it eventually, but perhaps a slightly less powerful version is in order in the meantime. Something to mimic the humanoid-wolf form without allowing for the power of the magical beast wolf form would probably be a bit easier to help them meet their social needs at the low levels. Perhaps something working with an Alter Self spell rather than Beast Shape IV?
If I'm not mistaken, that'd be spell level 2 x caster level 3 x 2,000 for a use-activated/continuous item = 12,000gp, x2 since alter self is in minutes/level = 24,000gp, halved for crafting again = 12,000gp.
Unless I've miscalculated something or misread a spell, this might work. They could theoretically craft one or two of these by the end of Shackled Hut, assuming they spent their money wisely up to this point (it'd likely require them to pool resources a bit, but they tend to do that on their own anyways). Either way, Greta hardly needs an item that lets her turn into her original wolf form--she can do that naturally after all. She just needs to be able to turn humanoid if she's going to function socially outside of Irrisen.
--Edit: Ninja'd by thejeff on Alter Self. Pretty sure it would work, it's essentially the same spell as Beast Shape after all, just one that names a different creature type. And yeah, I think the average winter wolf would take issue with the pelt and somebody wearing it without the transformation, though the adventure comments that Greta is mature enough to get over it after a bit of outrage from the initial shock.
1375gp is a lot for a PC to spend on a 2 hour (more like 1.5 or 1.75 hour) date... That's assuming the party has a magic item crafter. Greta is no cheap date.
Greta is also hardly the only reason the use the pelt...
Granted, she might be the most fun, (for a given value of fun...), reason.
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Sure, certainly. The pelt gives a character the form a winter wolf (big puppy...) which is tremendously useful in combat due to the increased strength and bigger size. Without a doubt, the rimepelt is quite useful in combat.
But 2 hours is hardly enough time for the PCs to get where the need to go, get what they need to get done, then take Greta out on a date (considering she's on duty) if that PC is interested in pursuing that direction. So they'll either need another one to get her to follow them at a time when she isn't busy guarding the Howlings or try to convince her to follow some other way.
I'm sure it's possible without another rimepelt, it could just be pretty difficult, between convincing her to come along without even a first proper date (spiced wine or tea or a proper adventuring date such as a side quest for a pair or winter wolves written up by the GM) and the difficulty in traversing between areas of Whitethrone.
Actually, I was thinking more the mobility about the Howlings utility of the Pelt than the combat utility...
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I'm not concerned about that. I know of these benefits, both in combat and out of combat, and the cost for them is appropriate to the cost of this item. Even with just a 2 hour duration and a single use.
But if the player wearing the rimepelt does reciprocate the interest in her, getting the 1st date will be troublesome to say the least. The adventure gives the players like 5 days in Whitethrone to accomplish their goals and get the hut as written. This certainly could be expanded by the GM as needed.
But as written, the crafting costs and the time needed to make a 2nd rimepelt for the sole purpose of courting Greta will be difficult.
I'm not trying to sound like I'm complaining. I'm the GM, I can make this work, that's my job. I'm just commenting on the reality as presented in the adventure.
I support Rob's answer completely.
One alternative is to craft a pelt with a longer duration or multiple uses that uses beast shape II. This would allow you to look like a winter wolf (as a Large animal, not a magical beast) but you would not have the magical abilities such as the immunity to cold and the breath weapon—but a PC might be able to "date" Greta long enough to justify telling her the truth and figuring out how (or if) to continue the relationship.
Could you make a daily use Alter Self item for Greta? With couple of hours duration, like the rimepelt has?
Yes.
It is actually easier to craft an item for Greta to take human form, than craft one for a PC to take a true winter wolf form. The base spell is just so significantly lower.
A simple comparison is the hat of disguise. The base there is a 1st level spell and alter self is a second level spell.
So off the top of my head:
2nd level spell x CL 3rd x 1,800 command word = 10,800 gp for Greta to take human form whenever she wants. You could make it an amulet or bracelet instead of a hat, if you like. And that's the price, the player crafter cost is 5,400 gp.
That could pretty much solve the problem for the rest of the campaign, allowing your PCs to have fun and not worry about it. She can be an ally in wolf or human form.
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Yeah, I know that my players will probably try to court Greta too so i will probably try this:
- INSIDE THE CITY: The rimepelt can transform the wearer in a winter wolf (human form) at will. If used to become a winter wolf (wolf form) its magic fades away after 2 hours.
- OUT OF THE CITY: the rimepelt works as described.
I think, as written, any time it used to change the wearer's shape—the the two hour duration starts.
HOWEVER, I think just allowing the wearer to look like a winter wolf in human form in Whitethrone and Redtooth should be a "free" function without duration; and that the duration only applies to taking wolf form (with all the cool powers). That allows the players to roleplay and have fun without really giving them very much of a freebie. I mean, it's just the equivalent to simple Disguise check in two locations in the whole world. But the duration should definitely apply to wolf form which grants significant magical combat benefits.
I don't see a great difference in its abilities whether inside the city or not—though it is not particularly logical to want to appear as a winter wolf in human form outside of the city.
Yeah I agree with you!
But the object description says:
At the risk of sounding like a wise-guy, I think we agree with each other completely. ;D
But I may not have been clear. Sounds like we're on the same page to me though!
BTW: it's awesome to have you guys answering us on the forum! Thank you very much! This adventure was really fun to read and I am really looking forward to play it!
You're welcome. This may sound ingratiating but we really want you and your players to have a good time. We're in the entertainment business, and if this helps to make you a repeat customer that is a cool (and sincere) thing.
On the note of the one-time nature of the Rime Pelts: Has anyone done cost calculations on making one a bit more permanent?
My group's just starting out, but they've got a Forgemaster cleric, and I know them well enough to be sure that they're most-likely going to love Greta enough to want to get her to come along. Doing so's going to require not only a less one-shot method of disguise for the PCs, at least initially, but also some variation on it to be crafted for Greta herself.
With a crafting expert on the team, simply paying more to craft a more permanently-useful magical item is likely going to be the most logical choice for them. So I figured I'd check to see if anyone had done the pricing before I bothered to figure it out myself.
One of the reasons we made the rimepelt a one-shot item was to keep the price down for a 4th-level adventure. Making a permanent, or continuous, version would be significantly more expensive.
Beast shape IV is a 6th-level spell. Using the standard magic item crafting costs, spell level 6 x caster level 11 x 2,000 for a continuous item = 132,000 gp. Since the duration of beast shape IV is 1 minute/level, the price is then doubled to 264,000 gp.
Obviously, a crafter just has to pay half that, so it drops back down to 132,000 gp, but that's still almost equal to the total of a 13th-level PC. But being able to change into Large magical beast as often as you want with no time limit ain't cheap!
Dumb question, what about a magic item that turns you into a dire wolf? That should take a Beast shape II, which makes you a Large-size canid so you'd be as big as Greta, and you'd still retain your intelligence and ability to speak lupine.
Or to be even cheaper, what about an object that does a permanent Alter self for Greta, so she can walk around as a human?
Dumb question, what about a magic item that turns you into a dire wolf? That should take a Beast shape II, which makes you a Large-size canid so you'd be as big as Greta, and you'd still retain your intelligence and ability to speak lupine.
Or to be even cheaper, what about an object that does a permanent Alter self for Greta, so she can walk around as a human?
The latter has been discussed above, and priced.
The former is simply planning ahead. The players may want a permanent/at will version of the Beast Shape IV cloak, and checking a price ahead of time saves me time if they ever ask me for rules guidance on such an item. Knowing how it works and how to price it ahead of time is simply convenient in the event that it's what they want.
As for my question being 'dumb' based on the grounds you've given: I disagree based on my reasons of pre-emptive preparation as stated above. You may be right that Beast Shape II is the better option, but that doesn't mean my players won't want to go for Beast Shape IV. Asking about Beast Shape IV ahead of time is simply good preparation.
I don't think Eric was calling your question dumb, Gluttony. I think he was saying, "Please pardon my question, because it might strike you as dumb."
He just hadn't looked up the thread at the previous posts.
EDITED: Ninja'd by Scribbling Rambler
Color me unobservant but I thought the Rimepelt allowed someone to transform for two hours each day as an innate quality of the pelt, not a total of two hours.
Looking at Nazhena's Tactics, it states that Nazhena casts summon monster IV on the first round of combat to summon an ice mephit.
That seems...rather useless. Is she supposed to be summoning several? or is there some kind of greater mephit?
Hm...I guess you're right looking at the list. Guess it threw me cause they seem a bit weak compared to some of the other choices.
Hm...I guess you're right looking at the list. Guess it threw me cause they seem a bit weak compared to some of the other choices.
Maybe, but that should also take into account that her "Before Combat" options are in place.
Her AC and hit points should be high from her spells and potions. She should be up above the PCs with her flight hex, which while it emulates a spell is actually a Supernatural Ability, so they can't cast dispel magic and bring her down.
Then she has a CR 5 Ice Golem to mix it up with the party tanks. She summons the ice mephit which can fly. Granted it's not that tough, but it has fast healing, a breath weapon, and magic missile / chill metal. That's your economy of action right there. Three NPCs versus four players, in a boss fight..
Once she gets spectral hand going, all of those touch spells are going to be extra dangerous thanks to her frozen caress ability.
You may well be right, depending on the make-up of your players, but this was underlying logic. If you want to start with something tougher, please do!
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There are also always more strategies than what we can reasonably describe. Here's an different one to consider:
Nazhena can cast area of effect cold spells like ice storm to not only affect the PCs, but also heal the ice golem (at a generous 3:1 ratio to damage caused) and break any slow effect they might have out on it.
Stop and consider, frostbite is going to heal that golem 24 to 39 points of damage with a 1st level spell. The golem automatically fails its saving throw, and the fatigued condition of the spell does not apply.
There are a lot of interesting synergies built into the encounter. With an archetype and a prestige class, she is a fairly complex caster. It is well worth the time to walk through all her abilities and look at some strategies from different angles. I dare say with will be true for all White Witches throughout the AP.
a 1/day use item for the Rimepelt would be the continuous use cost = 5 uses, so divide by 5.
132k/5 would be 26,400 gp.
Kindly note that a Hat of Disguise is Disguise Self, and won't work for a Winter Wolf in lupine form. A Greater Hat of Disguise is Alter Self, and that would do the job, but is significantly more.
==Aelryinth
Two questions based on that: How long would each use be?
I'll field this. I am going to walk through this a little more carefully.
First, let us refer to Mr. McCreary's original post up above.
Beast shape IV is a 6th-level spell. Using the standard magic item crafting costs, spell level 6 x caster level 11 x 2,000 for a continuous item = 132,000 gp. Since the duration of beast shape IV is 1 minute/level, the price is then doubled to 264,000 gp.
That is the pricing for continuous use. If you were apply the condition that you could use it once per day, you would divide it by 5. The price would be 52,800 gp, and the crafting cost would be 26,400 gp.
But... you're dividing a really high price/cost. The effect is still continuous, but you can only use it once per day. So basically a PC could become a winter wolf once per day, and stay that way all day long. However should they ever resume human form again, they would not be able to take wolf form again until the next day.
Would a hypothetical item with the same uses and duration that let you take the form of any Diminutive to Huge animal or Tiny to Large Magical Beast, as in Beast Shape IV, cost the same?
Yes.
Here's a precedent. If you got to this page of the Ultimate Equipment Index And scroll down to the Winter Wolf Headband, take a moment to study it
What you're going to see is a different approach to the item. Nevertheless, the item is quite specific that you become a Large wolf, not any other kind of animal.
And the rule of item design is that you try to adhere to how existing items have already been designed.
I do have sympathy however. Before Ultimate Equipment came out, I grappled with this question too. You can see it here in a post I made to Sean K Reynolds on August 23rd of last year. I'm just saying I've thought about it too. Check it out.
But I think the winter wolf headband really answers our question. Its the same price, even though you're limited to one form.
Kindly note that a Hat of Disguise is Disguise Self, and won't work for a Winter Wolf in lupine form. A Greater Hat of Disguise is Alter Self, and that would do the job, but is significantly more.
Respectfully, I'm not sure if this is in response to me or not. I do feel the need to point out this was never suggested.
If this is just a cautionary note, thank you!
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@ everyone: I would however go with the greater hat of disguise solution is probably more in keeping with the rules than the item I priced earlier. My solution was priced on the 1,800 gp command word rate (which ironically so is the original hat of disguise, which is why I did it). Greater hat of disguise uses the 2,000 gp continuous rate.
Actually now that I look at it alter self's duration is 1 min./level, so that's kind of cheap for that item. However who am I to argue?
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what if I just wore wolf piss as an after shave and had a REALLY high bluff score and complimented greta on her sharp axe and racey curves.... can i pull it off with out an actual disguise?
and then, the above...but add in the fact I'm a dwarf....??
As for my question being 'dumb' based on the grounds you've given:...I think you mis-read that, Gluttony. Eric was probably just saying his own question was dumb (which it wasn't).
:)
Yes, that was what I meant. Sorry for any confusion, Gluttony.