Whoah. I just realized that mind blank isn't a personal only spell. You can cast it on others. Holy cow!
Why on earth would a spellcaster NOT do this for the whole party the moment the spell becomes available? It makes the entire party immune to divination which, among other things, means your invisible rogue can hide from all those outsiders with true seeing and the BBEG can no longer track your movements with magical scrying devices.
It also beefs up your party tank's will saves. What's not to like?
Can't believe I never noticed this before.
Would you do it? If not, why not?
Mind Blank is one of those game changing spells that should be used all the time by those who have access to it. The flat out immunity makes it one of the most powerful spells available to a caster. If you can cast it on your party and combine it with invisibility spells you become very difficult to attack except on your own terms. Controlling when and how combat starts is one of the most powerful things in the game.
I played a 3.5 game where my sorcerer took it as his first 8th level spell and cast it on everybody every day. We had multiple BBEGs looking for us and it was necessary.
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One day ill actually be in a game where 8th level spells are used...
When that happens, mind blank will be used.
Yeah I will give this a lot of thought when I get to having a 15th level character like two years from now
This astounds me...
Which part?
And you've got how many 8th level spell slots to spend?
16th-level sorcerer with 26 Charisma will have 4 slots per day the moment he gets access to 8th-level spells, enough to cover most parties. An optimized sorcerer could cover 5.
A 15th-level wizard with 26 Intelligence could cover himself and one other person, plus a third individual if he happens to be an abjurer. By the time he is 16th-level, he is likely able to protect the whole party.
Really, the only other 8th-level core spells I would really even consider while adventuring at these levels are Moment of Prescience, Shapechange, or Summon Monster VIII; so it's not really a bad tradeoff if you ask me. (I'd also have Clone and few others, but they'd be used on days when I'm not expecting adventures.)
At even higher levels, you can protect the party AND have lots of goodies left over.
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I thought it was standard practice to mind blank everyone ASAP? Otherwise the bad guys always one-up you at higher levels, and the PCs all die.
Just as everyone always starts the adventuring day with a heroes' feast for breakfast, as soon as that's available. And why everyone sleeps in a magnificent mansion.
Really, the only other 8th-level core spells I would really even consider while adventuring at these levels are Moment of Prescience, Shapechange, or Summon Monster VIII; so it's not really a bad tradeoff if you ask me. (I'd also have Clone and few others, but they'd be used on days when I'm not expecting adventures.)
Euphoric Tranquility? Horrid Wilting? Irresistible Dance? Maze? Prismatic Wall?
If you're just lying in bed all day, I could see wanting to spend all your 8th level slots on Mind Blank, but if you're actually, you know, going adventuring I'd rather have SOME sort of offense.
I've done the mage's magnificent mansion thing, but I've only ever been in two or three games that were high enough for mind blank to be accessible. At the time, I was under the impression it was personal range, and so it was never used on anyone but the casters capable of casting it. I've never once seen heroes' feast cast.
Euphoric Tranquility?
Not immediately familiar with it.
Horrid Wilting?
Direct damage? *derisive snicker* Direct damage is only useful at these levels if you are a highly focused character.
Irresistible Dance?
A spellcaster getting into touch range is just asking for trouble.
Maze?
An absolutely amazing spell. Good for separating powerful enemies, running the hell away, or buying time to prep. I'm honestly surprised I overlooked this one. It's only real weakness is that it only ever effects one target.
Prismatic Wall?
A good spell, but I personally prefer to have more control of which effects are targeting my enemies.
If you're just lying in bed all day, I could see wanting to spend all your 8th level slots on Mind Blank, but if you're actually, you know, going adventuring I'd rather have SOME sort of offense.
To say nothing of all the other spell slots you seem to be completely ignoring. *rolls eyes*
Euphoric Tranquility?Not immediately familiar with it.
Then get familiar! This was my most-used druid spell at this level - no-save touch attack that lasts rounds/level, and makes the target Helpful! And of course they can't attack or cast. Your enemy is now your friend, and the only limitation is beating SR.
Horrid Wilting?Direct damage? *derisive snicker*
Hahah fair point... I guess this is more for the BBEG than for someone with a party. Still, the ability to wipe out an entire room with one action is pretty cool (although I find Blood Mist to be more fun...)
If you're just lying in bed all day, I could see wanting to spend all your 8th level slots on Mind Blank, but if you're actually, you know, going adventuring I'd rather have SOME sort of offense.To say nothing of all the other spell slots you seem to be completely ignoring. *rolls eyes*
What other spell slots? You said yourself an optimized sorcerer (i.e., max spell slots of anyone) only has 5 slots, which is just enough to cover your party. Oh wait, you mean lower level slots... but 8th level is so nice with all of the no-save-and-die spells.
To add to Rufus's list... Prediction of Failure is pretty cool.
Edit: Though it is from UM.
mind blank is also a premier reason to acquire a greater metamagic rod of extend at the earliest possible opportunity. You can make one spell slot protect two of your party.
As a word of advice though: telepathic bond (along with any other 'friendly' divination magic) does not operate through it, so if the group is reliant upon that method of instant communication, you're out of luck.
For protecting the minds of your group's low Will save members, it can't be beaten.
I was about to say why use FotD3 when you can use Shapechange, then I realized Shapechange is level 9, not 8.
What is with my memory today?
Why was this moved to advice?
I guess because I'm advising everyone to play a certain way...?
What is with my memory today?Detrimental side affect of Mind Blank?
lol.
In 3E, it was worth it. In PF, it now only gives Divination Imunity, not enchantment immunity as well. Instead you get a worthless save bonus that doesn't stack with your cloak of resist +5. And with divination, the main thing you want protection from is scrying, which many other lower level spells can handle for you anyway.
But, to answer the OP's question straight-on: Because you can just cast Communal Mind Blank as a level 9 spell. :p
Mainly scrying? It also knocks out see invisibility, true seeing, arcane sight, detect evil/good, and a host of other common spells.
Also, your fighter still gets a +3 bonus to his Will saves over his cloak which is awesome!
I would be genuinely surprised to see a high level module or AP chapter that did not feature multiple mind-affecting effects flying thick and fast. Frightful presence, domination attempts, harm and much, much worse spells ...
In many ways the PF version of mind blank is nastier - it no longer blocks mind-affecting effects like it used to, which means you can slather on greater heroism and top it off with holy aura and go to town without worrying at all about a cloak of resistance. Everyone's Will saving throw bonus jumps up by +12 with those three spells, or +7 if they're atop a +5 cloak of resistance...
Ummm.....can't he make many, many, MANY scrolls (he DOES get scribe scroll for free)? It may be expensive, but at 15th level, he's got money to spare (unless there's a spell level limit or something). Heck, if scrolls are out of the question, potions and wands are the next best (if a little costly) thing.
A 15th-level wizard with 26 Intelligence could cover himself and one other person, plus a third individual if he happens to be an abjurer. By the time he is 16th-level, he is likely able to protect the whole party.
Except scribing a scroll of Mind Blank takes 3 day per scroll.
Would you do it? If not, why not?
My 20th level sorcerer uses it every day on himself and his cohort. But using it on an entire party has a great cost (especially if animal companions and other cohorts are present) but could be necessary if the BBEG is scrying for the party.
I usually cast the spell once per day (I use a rod of Extend to put the duration to 48h, one time for me the second for my cohort) so I can use my other 8th level spells (Moment of Prescience & Maze are great too).
In 3.5, parties were less likely to use it as it blocked all the buff spells based on morale bonus. Now, as Turin said, you can use Mind Blank & Greater Heroism together, it rocks !!
Mainly because of limited 8th level spell slots.
Crafting any high level item takes a stupidly long amount of downtime. This is why, absent some super fast time pocket plane to craft in, magic marts are basically required.
My group that has PCs levels 17-19 recently finally got enough downtime ot level up and cash in loot, and our problem was....we had all this money to upgrade....but the time it would take to do so (in game) was just not at all feasible! It's pretty sad when the party fighter has to just sell his old +3 whatever sword and straight up buy a new +5 whatever sword because upgrading the existing one would mean not having it available for about a year (real life time).
Wiz/Arc/Lor
Sorry, this is just kind of a pet peeve of mine. Is it so hard to type out the name of the prestige classes? What the heck is a Wiz/Arc/Lor?
Shapechange if I remember correctly, also requires an expensive focus which takes up your head slot.
Seeing as it is a nonmagical focus, it doesn't use up any magical items slots.
Heck, even if your GM disagrees with the RAW, you could totally wear a circlet of persuasion or similar item, say it's made out of jade, and have it double as your focus. Furthermore, there's absolutely nothing in the spell that even implies you have to wear the jade circlet.
Wiz/Arc/LorSorry, this is just kind of a pet peeve of mine. Is it so hard to type out the name of the prestige classes? What the heck is a Wiz/Arc/Lor?Wizard/Archmage/Loremaster
And this isn't my shorthand for what it's worth, it's the games.
What game's? There's no Archmage in Pathfinder...
You do have to 'possess it'. Which typically means, for example, for the item to get a saving throw based on yours, it can't be sitting 25 feet away on a shelf that's around the corner. It has to be on your person.
I wasn't implying that you didn't need it on your person or otherwise readily available (at least not intentionally), just that it didn't need to be worn on your head.
Yes there is.. it's anyone who can claim the title and is powerful enough that you'll shut up rather than tell her otherwise.
All you have to do is kill Trebonius! It's also a great way to get Fast Healing 1, Blur, SR, and an int boost!
Even so, it doesn't use up the magic item slot. It is entirely possible to wear the jade circlet along with a magical one with no drawbacks (other than looking a little silly perhaps).
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RD, by that logic, I could totally wear a non-magical suit of armor and then a magical suit of armor right on top of it. Both plate mail.
Or I could wear two shields on my left arm.
Or swing two longswords with my right hand, as long as one is non-magical!
i.e. quit playing favorites with spellcasters, aye?
==Aelryinth