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Actually it can because magic item shops are not a rule.
Because these rules don't really exist. Never ever existed.Certainly couldn't have been found in the core rulebook.
In other words I think you are wrong.
Heck just because I'm not done driving the point home:
Magic items are valuable, and most major cities have at least one or two purveyors of magic items, from a simple potion merchant to a weapon smith that specializes in magic swords. Of course, not every item in this book is available in every town.
The following guidelines are presented to help GMs determine what items are available in a given community. These guidelines assume a setting with an average level of magic. Some cities might deviate wildly from these baselines, subject to GM discretion. The GM should keep a list of what items are available from each merchant and should replenish the stocks on occasion to represent new acquisitions.
The number and types of magic items available in a community depend upon its size. Each community has a base value associated with it (see Table: Available Magic Items). There is a 75% chance that any item of that value or lower can be found for sale with little effort in that community. In addition, the community has a number of other items for sale. These items are randomly determined and are broken down by category (minor, medium, or major). After determining the number of items available in each category, refer to Table: Random Magic Item Generation to determine the type of each item (potion, scroll, ring, weapon, etc.) before moving on to the individual charts to determine the exact item. Reroll any items that fall below the community's base value.
If you are running a campaign with low magic, reduce the base value and the number of items in each community by half. Campaigns with little or no magic might not have magic items for sale at all. GMs running these sorts of campaigns should make some adjustments to the challenges faced by the characters due to their lack of magic gear.
Campaigns with an abundance of magic items might have communities with twice the listed base value and random items available. Alternatively, all communities might count as one size category larger for the purposes of what items are available. In a campaign with very common magic, all magic items might be available for purchase in a metropolis.
Nonmagical items and gear are generally available in a community of any size unless the item is particularly expensive, such as full plate, or made of an unusual material, such as an adamantine longsword. These items should follow the base value guidelines to determine their availability, subject to GM discretion.
I mean sure you can deviate from the standard and that's cool and all...
but don't do so and act like it's the norm when it is explicitly stated to not be the norm.
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Actually it can because magic item shops are not a rule.Because these rules don't really exist. Never ever existed.Certainly couldn't have been found in the core rulebook.
In other words I think you are wrong.
Heck just because I'm not done driving the point home:
...Magic items are valuable, and most major cities have at least one or two purveyors of magic items, from a simple potion merchant to a weapon smith that specializes in magic swords. Of course, not every item in this book is available in every town.
The following guidelines are presented to help GMs determine what items are available in a given community. These guidelines assume a setting with an average level of magic. Some cities might deviate wildly from these baselines, subject to GM discretion. The GM should keep a list of what items are available from each merchant and should replenish the stocks on occasion to represent new acquisitions.
The number and types of magic items available in a community depend upon its size. Each community has a base value associated with it (see Table: Available Magic Items). There is a 75% chance that any item of that value or lower can be found for sale with little effort in that community. In addition, the community has a number of other items for sale. These items are randomly determined and are broken down by category (minor, medium, or major). After determining the number of items available in each category, refer to Table: Random Magic Item Generation to determine the type of each item (potion, scroll, ring, weapon, etc.) before moving on to the individual charts to determine the exact item. Reroll any items that fall below the community's base value.
If you are running a
Of course you don't bold what is actually relevant.
The following guidelines are presented to help GMs
determine what items are available in a given community.
These guidelines assume a setting with an average level of
magic. Some cities might deviate wildly from these baselines,
subject to GM discretion. The GM should keep a list of what
items are available from each merchant and should replenish
the stocks on occasion to represent new acquisitions.
You might want to stop leaving out stuff just to try and make you seem right.
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Actually it can because magic item shops are not a rule.Because these rules don't really exist. Never ever existed.Certainly couldn't have been found in the core rulebook.
In other words I think you are wrong.
Heck just because I'm not done driving the point home:
...Magic items are valuable, and most major cities have at least one or two purveyors of magic items, from a simple potion merchant to a weapon smith that specializes in magic swords. Of course, not every item in this book is available in every town.
The following guidelines are presented to help GMs determine what items are available in a given community. These guidelines assume a setting with an average level of magic. Some cities might deviate wildly from these baselines, subject to GM discretion. The GM should keep a list of what items are available from each merchant and should replenish the stocks on occasion to represent new acquisitions.
The number and types of magic items available in a community depend upon its size. Each community has a base value associated with it (see Table: Available Magic Items). There is a 75% chance that any item of that value or lower can be found for sale with little effort in that community. In addition, the community has a number of other items for sale. These items are randomly determined and are broken down by category (minor, medium, or major). After determining the number of items available in each category, refer to Table: Random Magic Item Generation to determine the type of each item (potion, scroll, ring, weapon, etc.) before moving on to the individual charts to determine the exact item. Reroll any items that fall below the community's base value.
If you are running a
Gm discretion is actually a part of the norm as well because it's in the corebook.
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Let me point this out as well.
should replenish
the stocks on occasion to represent new acquisitions.
Last time I checked, being told you should do something is not the same as being told you have to do something.
It's recommended on good advice but not a hard and fast rule that you must abide by.
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...Actually it can because magic item shops are not a rule.Because these rules don't really exist. Never ever existed.Certainly couldn't have been found in the core rulebook.
In other words I think you are wrong.
Heck just because I'm not done driving the point home:
Magic items are valuable, and most major cities have at least one or two purveyors of magic items, from a simple potion merchant to a weapon smith that specializes in magic swords. Of course, not every item in this book is available in every town.
The following guidelines are presented to help GMs determine what items are available in a given community. These guidelines assume a setting with an average level of magic. Some cities might deviate wildly from these baselines, subject to GM discretion. The GM should keep a list of what items are available from each merchant and should replenish the stocks on occasion to represent new acquisitions.
The number and types of magic items available in a community depend upon its size. Each community has a base value associated with it (see Table: Available Magic Items). There is a 75% chance that any item of that value or lower can be found for sale with little effort in that community. In addition, the community has a number of other items for sale. These items are randomly determined and are broken down by category (minor, medium, or major). After determining the number of items available in each category, refer to Table: Random Magic Item Generation to determine the type of each item (potion, scroll, ring, weapon, etc.) before moving on to the individual charts to determine the exact item. Reroll any items that
If that's how you want to run your games then fine but those items that exist don't have to be in shops. There could be an ex-adventurer in town that owns a magic sword, or a small cabal of thieves have acquired a few stolen goods, or another adventuring party has come to town to try and sell off an item they found in a dungeon to anyone that will by it.
It says nothing about it has to be coming from a magic shop.
Also note how the part I bolded is before the guidelines.
Magic items are available and most major cities have at least one or two purveyors of magic items...
The guidelines come after that part, for the pedantic among us (which is to say everyone).
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Also note how the part I bolded is before the guidelines.
Magic items are available and most major cities have at least one or two purveyors of magic items...
The guidelines come after that part, for the pedantic among us (which is to say everyone).
Okay, and that means what exactly?
It's letting you know after it's been stated that you don't have to do it that way.
Edit: Ever have someone explain something to you but then throw in "oh and by the way"?
That's what has happened in this situation. We recommend doing it this, oh and by the way, you could also do it this way or however you see fit.
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In a game where "rule zero" explicitly states that the GM can modify any rule to suit their own game there is actually no difference between "rule" and "guideline", neither semantically nor practically.
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There's also how amazingly worthless 300,000 gp is when you can't do a darn thing with it.
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Also, players shouldn't be worrying about the GM section of the book anyway. You don't need to be walking into a city expecting X number of items to be available. Your GM will let you know if and or what is available.
"You don't need to know the laws I operate by. I know the laws and I'll tell you if I'm screwing you and you can trust me."
If you will accept this from a GM then you should totally vote for me for public office.
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Shallowsoul, please under stand the at while the following may seem slightly harsh I am trying to attack you or tell you you are having badwrongfun, I am simply stating how things appear in my opinion.
Of course you don't bold what is actually relevant.
The following guidelines are presented to help GMs
determine what items are available in a given community.
These guidelines assume a setting with an average level of
magic. Some cities might deviate wildly from these baselines,
subject to GM discretion. The GM should keep a list of what
items are available from each merchant and should replenish
the stocks on occasion to represent new acquisitions.You might want to stop leaving out stuff just to try and make you seem right.
You keep making this point repeatedly in threads.
Pointing out something is a guideline rather than a rule is rather pedantic and makes it seem like you are arguing simply to be willfully obtuse.
The reason for this is that all of the rules in Pathfinder are effectively guidelines.
You can houserule and change whatever you like but there are established norms that the game itself was built around. Differing from those norms will cause you to need to change some things due to the fact that all of the Pathfinder "Guidelines" interact with one another in a complex web.
Take for example the fact that we roll a D20 for attack rolls, saves and skill checks.
I have seen it posited on these boards that in certain individuals games they roll 2D10 for these checks instead and find the result more reasonable.
They have to change several things about save DC's, Skill checks, and Attacks/AC to accommodate this or just accept the fact that the odds on these rolls changed.
Why this is pertinent is due to the fact that Pathfinder already has in place a method for distributing magic items throughout a community for availability to PC's.
If you change or modify this mechanic you need to change or modify many others due to the fact that with modification you can allow for PC's that are more or less powerful than the norm.
What I see AD and others arguing for is the fact that they seem to believe that the current item distribution system is not inherently mechanically flawed.
I have looked at the math for item distribution using the CRB rules and the optional GMG settlement rules and I agree with them, however this is for the standard game as posited in the CRB.
Your game seems heavily houseruled and does not seem to use these portions of the mechanics. That is of course fine.
If in the future you could come across as slightly less aggressive and realize that no-one with a few outlying and rude exceptions are trying to tell you "No, BadWrongFun" it would be appreciated.
In fact the most I have seen in this thread is that someone said to you that they as a player would want reasonable rules that affected PC's and NPC's in the same way.
You are not being attacked and you are arguing a given.
You are in fact replying as below.
Person A: "I think this lemonade is too sweet."
Shallowsoul: "I can make lemonade how I choose to. There are no lemonade rules, only guidelines!"
Person A: "Oh, thats fine I have not even tasted your lemonade, I was talking about the store bought lemonade that I made. I think I will follow the package next time and add only two spoons of sugar."
Shallowsoul: "I can make lemonade how I choose to. I add five cups of salt to mine! There are no lemonade rules, only guidelines!"
Person A: "Of course, however why do you add salt and why five cups?"
Shallowsoul: "Because the package instructions are only guidelines! I can make lemonade how I choose to. I add five cups of salt to mine! There are no lemonade rules, only guidelines!"
Sorry if this seems harsh but this is how you come across. I would like to continue conversing with you however simply restating the guidelines rhetoric is not a forward move in discussion.
I personally am enjoying this thread and support all of those however they run their games, however I would like everyone and not just shallowsoul to realize this is very much a "To Taste" topic, where opinion and preference will drive and vary wildly.
TL;DR Please lets all be less aggressive and get along. :-)
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Oh yeah? Well, in my game, only wooden stakes, clubs, quarterstaves and slings (stones only) are available to player characters. If you want something like a short sword, a great axe, or even (heaven forbid) a longbow, then you're going to have to fight creatures to get them. No monty haul-like weapon shops with any number of weapons available in my campaign. I mean, who plays like that? Besides, if you had such a powerful weapon shop, I mean, why wouldn't the big bad just come in and rob all their stuff?
And of course, all crafting skills are disallowed. The only crafters are a secret clan of ur-gnomes, who guard the secret of weaponsmithing with their lives. Maybe if you know someone who knows someone, you might be able to get them to part with a dagger, or if you roll well, a morningstar.
How about Drive-Thru magic shoppes?
Surely you could ride by on your horse to a window and purchase some items for ease and convenience?
That sounds nice; I'll take 3
Oh yeah? Well, in my game, only wooden stakes, clubs, quarterstaves and slings (stones only) are available to player characters. If you want something like a short sword, a great axe, or even (heaven forbid) a longbow, then you're going to have to fight creatures to get them. No monty haul-like weapon shops with any number of weapons available in my campaign. I mean, who plays like that? Besides, if you had such a powerful weapon shop, I mean, why wouldn't the big bad just come in and rob all their stuff?
And of course, all crafting skills are disallowed. The only crafters are a secret clan of ur-gnomes, who guard the secret of weaponsmithing with their lives. Maybe if you know someone who knows someone, you might be able to get them to part with a dagger, or if you roll well, a morningstar.
Tommy Callahan: I'm...sensing a little sarcasm
Richard: I hope so. I'm laying it on pretty thick
Also, players shouldn't be worrying about the GM section of the book anyway. You don't need to be walking into a city expecting X number of items to be available. Your GM will let you know if and or what is available."You don't need to know the laws I operate by. I know the laws and I'll tell you if I'm screwing you and you can trust me."
If you will accept this from a GM then you should totally vote for me for public office.
Which way to the ballot box. I also believe everything I see on the internetz are truth.
True, the rules does not say: you need to make sure the PCs have +3 weapons and armor, not just +2", but the difference between having a +3 or a +2 weapon is much bigger than +3 vs. +4 weapon.
Same as the having a +1 weapon instead of a MW weapon could be the difference between a TPK and no TPK. Sometimes item X is – more or less- mandatory.
You're not backing up this statement; how is the difference between a +2 and a +3 item bigger than the difference between a +3 and a +4 item? The difference in both cases is +1.
Likewise, saying that "that +1 could be what stops a TPK from happening" is tangential to the issue, since no matter what your total bonuses are, there'll always be cases where the die roll is one point away from what you need it to be - it's more germane to ask how much of an impact the loss of a +1 on a specific kind of roll has on the PCs average for those rolls over the course of a campaign (and, more generally, how much difference that impact had).
I believe Zark may be referring to the ability of some levels of enhancement bonuses to bypass damage reduction.
+1 is a huge deal, since it lets you affect incorporeal enemies and bypass DR/magic.
+2 is nice, but there's no further effect on DR, so all you're getting here is the hit and damage bonus.
+3 isn't as important as +1, but it's better than +2 since it allows you to bypass DR/silver and DR/cold iron.
+4 is still useful, but since DR/adamantine isn't as common as silver and cold iron, it's not quite as important as +3.
+5 is about as huge as +1, since so many things (especially at high levels) have DR/alignment.
Obviously, you can deal with all of this in other ways, but the ability to just ignore those types of damage reduction passively without any sort of preparation is rather nice.
Is this thread about magic shoppes anymore?
On the topic of magic items needing to be limited/controlled so as not to cater to players: my brother taught me the best lesson on the subject I ever had in a rifts game decades ago. We were headed for a fight we couldn't hope to win. One of the characters was a coalition dog boy, so he called in some favors and figured out where an old abolisher was (abolisher = giant robot vehicle/weapon).
Now we went on a little side adventure, found the thing, and got away with it; we even rolled some pretty phenominal rolls (after a few different people tried) to get it in working order and figure out how to pilot the thing. We rolled up on the battle and soundly mashed the giant crab things about to blast the world to smithereens from the rift. Then we set off in our new abolisher to conquer the world.
Miraculously the next area we wandered into had been reduced to desert by the rift. None of us knew any better and walked a 50 ton robot right into the shifting sands. We barely abandoned ship before the abolisher was out of sight, under the dunes and we were stranded in the middle of nowhere.
See, he gave us EXACTLY what we needed to stand a chance then got rid of it for us when we didn't NEED it any more. Sunder, the appearance of an angel, grappling attacks or thieves; there are endless ways to achieve this with magic items.
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There's also how amazingly worthless 300,000 gp is when you can't do a darn thing with it.Depends on what your playing. Not everyone kills then buys stuff. Wash, rinse, and repeat.
Paladins and clerics can donate the gold and be rewarded in other ways for example.
How handy for Paladins and Clerics. I guess their churches give them...what? Are the churches packing item creating dwarfs in the basement who use their so closely guarded that they don't even really know secrets of craftsmanship to produce magic items for the clerics and paladins or something? How might they be getting rewarded in "other ways"?
You can retire on 10,000 gp. The moment you have 10,000 gp worth of loot, according to the rules, you can live a comfortable normal lifestyle at 10 gp/month for about 83.3 years and that includes minor expenses like eating out. Which means adding the absolute minimum lifespan for an adventurer (again based on the rules) of 15 years, you'd be 98 years old before you ran out.
You're expected to amass 10,500 gp worth of treasure by 5th level. That's even counting consumable magic items that got dumped along the way (because the actual amount you're likely to get by that level, based on the treasure by encounters table is more like 13,800 gp (if you fight nothing but NPC-geared foes you get double this amount but sell for half price to equate to the same amount).
If you can't reasonably be expected to convert treasures into magic items you end up with an excessive amount of wealth with nothing really to spend it on. The most expensive masterwork armor is 1650 gp. Four different masterwork weapons is less than 1,400 gp. Some fine heavy warhorses are 300 gp. Another 150 gp covers most every piece of adventuring gear you will ever need, and 300 for some consumables; leaving you 10,000 gp of your share to retire on until the age of 98+ years old.
Which means it gets really, really, reaaaaaaally boring to find treasure after a while. It's like getting coupons for ice cream in the middle of hell. You're drowning in coupons, would love to have an icecream, but you can't exchange them to save your life. So when you save the day and find a treasure horde consisting of:
30,000 copper pieces
16,000 silver pieces
8,000 gold pieces
Five exquisite tapestries, three barrels of the finest aged ale, masterwork sword studded with rubies, and a painting of the king of your country that was stolen three centuries past...
Nobody cares. Just file it with the rest of the treasure, catalog it, take one tenth of it to throw at peasants because it's funny, and sit on the rest of it because we've already got twelve acres, five flocks of sheep, forty cows, a ranch full of horses and riding dogs, own five hamlets, and are the lord of Snorsville.
there's a difference between do as you please as a character i.e. the freedom to make decisions on situations and do as you please as a player where they're free to have what ever powers they please. There's a difference between denying them decision making and their will as a human being (their char) and deciding what the physics are of your world...Interesting kmal2t...
"roam free and do as you please" is precisely the atmosphere I strive to achieve in my games.
There is some illusion involved, but like all good GMs, I try to keep the illusions concealed as much as possible.
Don't try to redefine the debate point kmal2t. The original comment I was responding to was:
As opposed to the GM not having control of the players' characters? I guess they should just roam free and do as they pleaseTrying to claim now you meant the players is a nice effort but it's not going to fly.
Go ahead, the more you and Shallow try to explain how wonderful it is to deny players the ability to manage their characters through acquiring anything except whatever the GM bestows on them, the deeper hole you are digging.
The two of you are giving the lurkers on this thread a more powerful argument for magic item creation and purchasing than I ever could. Keep it up.
Continue living in that dream world where you hear what you want to hear because it makes you feel intelligent as if you checkmated every discussion. Nothing I said was contradictory regardless of you thinking you "caught me" and I'm backtracking. The fact is, yes, the DM does have control over the player characters..I clarified this by saying control over what they can have (and thus what the Players can use) in terms of power and world physics and not what the characters (and player) are allowed to do i.e. their free will to make actions
If this is confusing I'll break it down Barney style for you.
LOL, whatever you say kmal2t, whatever you say. As always I leave it as an exercise to the readers to decide how threads are going. They're the ones that matter anyway.
I don't think I've ever had the fun of a game reduced because one of the other players was crafting some magic items for our party. It literally takes only a second or so to make the craft check and state, "Three weeks pass." Of course, the passage of time is usually decided on by the group to make sure people are able to get what they want.
And magic shoppe (or even weapon shoppe for that matter) often feel like a cop out where your implementing modern ideas like mass production and general stores out of lazyness, which feel out of place in a more unrefined era. Maybe that's being too much of a historical purist to some, but if you're going to include modern concepts to an area with antiquated technology you might as well include social democracy, secularism, civil rights etc.
More straw men. Nobody has said that mass production would be instituted, in fact there were several posts explaining exactly why mass production won't work for magic items. Nobody is including modern concepts "magic" shops have been around for thousands of years.
And then there's the ad hominem accusation of laziness being at the root of it all.
Man, you can put more irrelevancy in fewer words than most folks I interact with kmal2t. That's a skill worth nurturing.
Here's a question: what do you think a magic shop is? Y'know, describe it and stuff.
For me, a magic shop is a Witch's Hut or an Alchemist's Stall or a little shop full of swords and armor etc. I can take many forms and be just about anywhere.
I dunno - I just don't see a problem with the PC's seeking a purveyor of magical goods and having a chance to get what they want. I don't see it as some kind of high crime or player entitlement.
Sub-question: how many people have a problem with players making their 1st level characters with certain magic items in mind?
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And magic shoppe (or even weapon shoppe for that matter) often feel like a cop out where your implementing modern ideas like mass production and general stores out of lazyness, which feel out of place in a more unrefined era. Maybe that's being too much of a historical purist to some, but if you're going to include modern concepts to an area with antiquated technology you might as well include social democracy, secularism, civil rights etc.
This brings up an interesting point: do we already include those in the system? Sexism and racism are significantly reduced in the pathfinder system, especially compared to historical contexts. And there are a variety of political ideas in Galorian, to include social democracy. Atheism is a legitimate belief system in Pathfinder, and there are several secular governments, to include Rahadoum and Touvette.
Edit: Andoran is a democracy, and feels to me like a social democracy, although they may be closer to a libertarian democracy.
You can retire on 10,000 gp. The moment you have 10,000 gp worth of loot, according to the rules, you can live a comfortable normal lifestyle at 10 gp/month for about 83.3 years and that includes minor expenses like eating out. Which means adding the absolute minimum lifespan for an adventurer (again based on the rules) of 15 years, you'd be 98 years old before you ran out.This is one reason I've always been uninterested in playing money-motivated characters. Unless you really just want piles of it to swim in like Scrooge McDuck, past a fairly low level you have all the money you will ever need for anything other than adventuring.
And while you're risking your life doing this, you're just plowing all those piles of gold back into equipping you to get more piles of gold which you'll spend on equipping yourself to get more piles of gold etc
Why not just get off the treadmill?
That's why I don't like being money-motivated. At least not initially. Personally, I think motivation for wealth is fine at low levels because it's a practical motivation. Yet by 5th level (roughly 100 equal-CR encounters) I feel like most characters who aren't gripped with manic greed should probably have found new motivation.
For example, in LSSSC, Alex and his friends go explore what was thought to be an abandoned dragon's cave for a "dragon diamond", found a dragon living there, were honest, and so the dragon actually gives them one because they don't prize them at all (it's hinted that it's dragon poo), and so the adventurers have this gem worth a stupid amount of money. Yet no one in their small hometown could afford to buy such a precious rarity. So the initial adventure is - seriously - just trying to make it to a city big enough to pawn the sucker off at. Then, life happens, and later they're saving the world.
But the heart of the matter is fairly simple. The only real reason to amass huge quantities of treasure as is customary for these sorts of fantasy adventures is to invest into more adventures or doing things like crafting magic items. When I'm playing a character and I crack a vault to "The Lost Treasure of Kali'baba" and find a treasure trove of shiny baubles, gems, tapestries, and small hills of copper coins and silver florens? Well, I'm diggin' it. Some of it's gonna go to RP interests but it also means I'm gonna take some downtime and create a flying carpet or an animated suit of armor. If I'm a martial character like a barbarian, I'm going to want to go see if that +3 flaming greataxe in that town is still in stock when we get back 'cause the chicks dig flaming axes. :P
And if you take the fun of amassing wealth out of it, then it's not very special at all. If you can't do with it, then it's worthless.
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So ultimely another thread from the op ends in a exercise in futility. Not even truly wanting to debate. Seeking validation and a unrealistic hope that RAW maybe rewritten to fit his game.
Historical realism in D&D let alone PF. In a world where there is dragons the size of jets that can fly. Beholders that are essentially hovering intelligent laser platforms. Mind Flayers that eat brains and somehow don't get eliminated in a world wide purge and someone wants to bring up historical realism. PF and by extension D&D was and is not historically realistic. Want that play Ars Magica. While D&D and PF borrows some tropes and elements from medieval society it's anything but. If anyone can find a textbook on medieval history that includes really dragons and beholders post a link I would be interested.
For myself I keep the standard magical shoppe and item creation feats in the game. If I were to remove them I would be at least making sure that their would be a source rare or common that allows one to have access to items. Otherwise what the point of collecting gp. I adventure to hav fun as a player. Complete quests and also buy stuff.
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I'm curious how the original poster (OP) was unrealistic and hoping that RAW could be rewritten. He argued in favor of having magical item shops as it is written in the CRB.
Yeah well as I could technically craft a sword that completely defies all possible laws of nature in a week, the first thing i actually crafted was a bag of gold piece production and as my GM couldn't look up some obscure freaking rule to prevent me from doing it; in three weeks i've managed to completely ruin the economy of my game world making gold worth less than toast.
Nice strawman.
1) The rules don't state anything like that.
2) It isn't necessarily up to the GM to prove that a rule says something. If a player wants to be able to do it, it should be up to them to show that it can be done by RAW.
3) If the GM really doesn't like it, they could converse about it like rational adults and come to a conclusion about what should be in the game and what shouldn't. In fact, the entire group should be a part of this discussion. It's a group game and the entire group should have input on how the game is run. The GM should not be a dictator of the game.
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To each his own I s'pose.
Funny though how my extended group always seems to divide down the D&D and "every other kind of game in preference" players. To be clear i started with the Pink Box--1980. Left it as soon as a better system came out. The D&D guys are always a hard fit for any other game--and when they do it's the same thing every time. WH40k--"I want to build a munitorum so i can make hellfire bullets all day and all night" --"why can't i invent the uzi in the western gunfighter game i have gunsmith and a genius iq"--they tend to commodify every aspect of every game regardless of the effect on the others in the group. These are the guys in my pathfinder campaign who argued for twenty minutes about why there has to be a magic shop in town. He's the guy who takes down every last copper piece and records it and then gets angry when they can't pack 100 000 of them on a horse. The ones always reaching for the book to derail any story momentum with a sidebar to attempt to gain advantage all the time. It's self over the group. The rest of the players could care less about the money et al. Unfortunately they are the guys who every other player in the game has suggested replacing repeatedly.
Like i said--i like the basic platform of Pathfinder--but these systems always attract the rules lawyers--and as i have enough time during my working day with them--i decline to do it in game. i have no interest in the game world or content--elves and gnomes and tarrasques and magic shops aren't my cup of adventure. It fairly simple--the answer is no you can't craft magical weapons in my game. No there are no magic shops for you to drop off your spare rings of feather falling at. If my players don't like it they are welcome to find another game.
Thanks for generalizing people and stereotyping them.
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How about Drive-Thru magic shoppes?
Surely you could ride by on your horse to a window and purchase some items for ease and convenience?
I'll take a +5 Holy, Vorpal, Dancing, Shock Longsword of Speed, extra cheese, and a side of Arrows +3.
I'll take a +5 Holy, Vorpal, Dancing, Shock Longsword of Speed, extra cheese, and a side of Arrows +3.How about Drive-Thru magic shoppes?
Surely you could ride by on your horse to a window and purchase some items for ease and convenience?
I thought the maximum you could get was a +10 (with a max enhancement bonus of +5).