Some component costs are a little strange though and the availabity on the level they aare appropriate is questionable, component pouch or not. Like infernal healing and devils blood on level one. That reeks of Harry Potter style huge magical drugstores where the frontiers between magic and alchemy are wishy-washy. What in turn reflects back on the magic systems being used, but also schools and classes.
I think the word magic system was a good try!
Can you improvise a holy symbol? The equivalent of tying 2 sticks together to form a cross?
You shouldn't have to. There's a trait that gets you a permenant one that's a birthmark or tattoo. Harder to lose. Certainly a wise get for a cleric or oracle.
You shouldn't have to. There's a trait that gets you a permenant one that's a birthmark or tattoo. Harder to lose. Certainly a wise get for a cleric or oracle.
Can you improvise a holy symbol? The equivalent of tying 2 sticks together to form a cross?
Oracles do not need to provide a divine focus to cast spells that list divine focus (DF) as part of the components.
Sunder holy symbol on hand!
Truly, if it got all cut up, would it function? Not by supernatural logic anyway--damage the sign it has no power. Tattooist can repair, but not mid-combat.
But it doesn't say the pouch lasts forever. You can use a focus over and over again unless it is consumed but not with the other components....Mnemonic Enhancer will cost you a 50gp Focus and you have to find some black dragon blood which may not be easy and may be expensive...
...I track spell components and I ask the spell casters where they got some of the more exotic components because if there is no way they could have gotten it then they won't be casting that spell until they actually find some...
Spell Component Pouch: A spellcaster with a spell
component pouch is assumed to have all the material
components and focuses needed for spellcasting, except
for those components that have a specific cost, divine
focuses, and focuses that wouldn’t f it in a pouch.Not asking where they got spell components with unlisted prices isn't called "handwaving" it's called "following the rules".
What you're doing is a houserule. A completely logical houserule that I kind of like, but a houserule.
Not all components have to fit in one literal pouch, especially those involving spells with prolonged casting times. I also handwave things such as folds in cloaks and such.
I don't think the game needs to be bogged down with trivial details such as "did you get your bat guano" or "did your character crap today?" Special components such as diamond dust, or that pesky 5000 gp diamond for raise dead I DO enforce such tracking.
Once, for something a little different, I had a giant slug monster attack the party which were traversing an underground desert. The party rogue was taking a dump behind a rock when the monster attacked, his chain shirt not in a ready for combat state.
Hilarious combat.
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Analyze Dweomer: F 1,500gp
Animate Dead: 25gp per hit dice per casting.
Arcane Lock: 25gp per casting.
Astral Projection: 1,000gp per casting.
Augury: 25 gp per casting plus 25gp for a Focus.
Atonement: 500gp for the Focus.
Awaken: 2,000gp per casting.
Binding: 500 gp per Hit dice plus other components.
Chain Lightning: Says you need one silver pin per caster level but it doesn't have a price. If the spell component pouch has all the components you need then why bother specifically stating you need a silver pin for each caster level?
Circle of Death: 500gp per casting.
Cloak of Chaos: 500gp per casting.
Clone: 1,000 per casting plus 500 gp for lab.
Commune: 500gp per casting.
Consecrate: 25 gp per casting.
Contingency: 1,500gp for the focus.
Continual Flame:50 gp ruby per casting.
Create Undead: 50gp per hit dice per casting.
Curse Water: 25 gp per casting.
Desecrate: 25gp per casting.
Destruction: 500gp per casting.
Divination: 25gp per casting.
False Vision: 250 gp per casting.
Fire Trap: 25 gp per casting.
Forbiddance: 1,500 gp per casting plus 1,500 per 60ft cube per casting.
Forcecage: 500gp per casting
Glyph of Warding: 200gp per casting.
Hallow: 1,000 per casting plus 1,000 per level of the spell to be included per casting.
Holy Aura: 500gp per casting.
Illusory Script: 50gp per casting.
Instant Summons: 1,000 per casting.
Legend Lore: 250gp per casting plus 200gp for a Focus.
Limited Wish: 1,500gp per casting.
Mage's Magnificent Mansion: 150 gp focus.
Mage's Sword: 250 gp focus.
Magic Jar: Could cost 100 gp per casting.
Magic Mouth: 10gp per casting.
Mnemonic Enhancer: 50 gp focus.
Nondetection: 50 gp per casting.
Permanency: Varies but in the thousands.
Phantom Trap: 50gp per casting.
Greater Planar Ally: 2,500 gp per casting plus payment.
Lesser Planar Ally: 500 gp per casting plus payment.
Planar Ally: 1,250gp per casting.
Planar Binding work like Planar Ally so they cost the same.
Project Image: 5 gp per casting.
Protection from Spells: (diamond worth 500 gp), F (One 1,000 gp
diamond per target. Each subject must carry the gem for the
duration of the spell. If a subject loses the gem, the spell ceases
to affect him.)
Raise Dead: 5,000gp per casting.
Reincarnate: 1,000 per casting.
Refuge: 1,500 per casting.
Repulsion:50 gp per casting.
Greater Restoration: 5,000 per casting.
Resurrection: 10,000gp per casting.
Restoration: diamond dust worth 100 gp or 1,000 gp,
Scrying: 1,000gp focus.
Sepia Snake Sigil: 500gp per casting.
Shapechange: 1,500gp focus.
Shield Other: 100gp focus.
Shield of Law: 500 gp focus.
Simulacrum: 500gp per HD per casting.
Stoneskin: 250 gp per casting.
Symbol of Death: 20,000gp per casting.
Symbol of Fear: 4,000 gp per casting.
Symbol of Persuasion: 20,000gp per casting.
Symbol of Insanity: 20,000gp per casting.
Symbol of Sleep: 4,000gp per casting.
Symbol of Pain: 4,000 gp per casting.
Symbol of Stunning: 20,000gp per casting.
Symbol of Weakness: 20,000gp per casting.
Sympathy: 1,500 gp per casting.
Teleportation Circle: 1,000 per casting.
Temporal Stasis: 5,000 gp per casting.
Trap the Soul: 1,000gp per HD per casting.
True Resurrection: 25,000gp per casting.
True Seeing 250 gp per casting.
Unhallow: 1,000gp plus 1,000gp per level of spell to be tied.
Undeath to Death: 500 gp per casting.
Unholy Aura: 500 gp focus.
Wall of Iron: 50gp per casting.
Wish: 25,000 gp per casting.
Now that is just from the CRB.
A bit expensive.
The accounting is strong in this one. Makes me think that spellcasters would not be so powerful if they did have to procure and track all their spell components.
Yeah, that would be a great spell to cast, but do you have the 20,000gp cost component?
We do track spells that use expensive components in our groups, and our casters are regularly sure they have components for such spells that they want to cast. Our players are very good about being responsible for tracking which components they needs for which spell. When I do it for my characters, I never have felt it to be too tiresome. There may be a lot of spells with costly components across the rules, but which ones I in particular choose to have on my spells known list/in my spellbook/commonly prepared list tend to be limited.
We do not track non-costly components (i.e., we don't check to see if the wizard has bat guano before he casts fireball) but when I am GM I usually remind my players to replenish their spell component pouches every month or so of gametime. I'm not very strict about it, but just try to keep it in mind.
When I am GM, I am also sure that treasure caches contain gems including diamonds, rubies, and other gems commonly used as spell components to help make sure players have them on hand if they need them.
For tracking non costly components, I always thought it would be interesting to do a "prison island" scenario where everyone has absolutely nothing to start with, and you really do have to scrape the guano out of caves and stuff to cast. Done with the right flavor and application, I think it could be interesting and not a chore, but you would have to manage it very well. It's not a thing I'd do as a rule.
I generally don't carefully track costs that amount to less then about 1% of WBL. I have my players tick off gold for bribes, expensive events and such, but the economy of even a fifth level party makes most mundane expenses a joke. If the cost is measured in sp, I don't even think about it after character creation.
Honestly, on that entire list, the only cost that might influence the use of the spell is probably stoneskin, at least until the higher levels. All the other spells are either single cost focuses, a pittance, or very rarely used. For almost half of the examples the cost would be picked up by the recipient of the spell, rather then the caster.
Compared to the amount of money a caster will save crafting one item, the cost of all this spell stuff is nothing.
You shouldn't have to. There's a trait that gets you a permenant one that's a birthmark or tattoo. Harder to lose. Certainly a wise get for a cleric or oracle.
Can you improvise a holy symbol? The equivalent of tying 2 sticks together to form a cross?
I've considered getting a few really nice 100g holy symbol tattoos for my Arcane casters and then taking False Focus. It's like Eschew Materials but useful :O!... unless the enemies capturing you are meta and know that the mundane looking tattoos are a source of power (which leads to that one enemy actually having Erase or more painful methods of removal).
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i track. or rather, i have my players track.
i have devised an abstract "Trinket" system. this is our spell component pouch. any spell with "M" in the component field consumes a number of Trinkets equal to it's level. Trinkets are defined as components of trivial value. valuable components are tracked separately.
also i have modified the components field of some choice spells. usually non-combat spells. for example, Disguise Self has a "M" component if being used to emulate a specific person. otherwise it is merely "V, S".
Eschew Materials is a Metamagic feat with a +1 slot cost.
characters can use Spellcraft to improvise a spell without (trivial) components at DC 15 + twice spell level. failure loses the spell. no taking 10 or 20. if a wizard has the spell memorized via Spell Mastery, they get a +2 on this roll.
my going rate is 20 cp for 1d6 Trinkets. you can try this once per market per day. also, beginning characters start with 1d6 Trinkets per spell in their spellbook with an "M" component.
these rules cause my players to be more engaged with their "M" spells. they actively look for Trinkets (or expensive components), and spend their money trying to keep their pouches full. in my experience, players who typically choose to play a wizard don't mind the extra bookkeeping - and find the rules above to be fair.
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You're trying to use this as a justification for wizards not being as powerful as people think. It isn't, and they are.Try actually tracking the spells that require components with a cost.
you're doing more than that.
You're trying to make people spend more on a 5gp component pouch to have components on hand (but don't tell the warriors, sorry, you didn't spend 5gp on leather conditioner, your armor just fell off because of dry rot)
People do track the expensive stuff when its listed: ie stoneskin.
I've considered getting a few really nice 100g holy symbol tattoos for my Arcane casters and then taking False Focus. It's like Eschew Materials but useful :O!... unless the enemies capturing you are meta and know that the mundane looking tattoos are a source of power (which leads to that one enemy actually having Erase or more painful methods of removal).
I really like the idea of that feat, but not the flavor and how it's tied partly to Razmiran. I'd rather use it as an arcane caster with strong genuine faith using it to supplement their casting.
Also, Rainzax: Most of that seems cool, aside from the change to eschew materials (though I see the point of that).
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Back before 3.0 when you were actually supposed to track all those components, that was probably one of the most hand-waved rules around. Nobody wanted the paperwork of tracking it all. "Pinches of sand? How many pinches in an a half a pound?" "I need 'wine stirred with an owl's feather'? How much wine? Do I need a new owl's feather each time?" Can you buy these things? How much do they cost?
It's just too much of a pain. The flavor of using material components is fine, but actually doing it mechanically sucks. Adding the spell component pouch just formalized what most groups did already.
And you can still play around with improvising components when you're doing an escape scene or something where you're separated from your gear.
If they removed the pouch, or changed it so you had to actually track it all, everyone would just take Eschew Materials (or not play a caster). But a feat tax to avoid player level hassle is not a good idea.
Agreed and seconded. Unless the component is truly unique or at the very least hard to get in my games I don't make players track their spell components and as a player most DMs do the same. I want to play dungeons and Dragons. Not tax forms and inventory lists.
I really can't be arsed to keep track of spell components anyway, so I just drain gold from the Wizard's funds directly and assume he bought them or found them at some point instead of going back and saying "Did you take your toe nail clipper to those Orcs we fought 3 sessions back or...?"
Here's another one: why can a wizard get a pouch of a thousand different spell components for free and grab any one he wants from it without spending an action, but an archer needs to track arrows and spend a move action to take out a bow?
If it makes you feel better I can't really be arsed to track ammunition either (I probably would track bullets if we had a Gunslinger since they're so expensive but I've never played with one). I just handwave the "arrows and ammo break" rules away and assume player pick up their ammo and dust it off, or if they have a rank in Craft: Bows they're making ammo out of twigs and rocks to pad their quiver.
I will admit that I had not really thought about spell component cost all that much. I tend to play fighters and other melee types most often. I have played spell casters a couple of times but I followed the DM's rules for casting. We only worried about cost for things like Raise Dead and Resurrection that had a high cost. Otherwise it was grab spell component pouch and go.
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I allow Eschew Materials to be taken multiple times, it multiplies the value of components you can go without by 10 after the first feat. So having it at the third level gives you 100 gp of material components. This may not seem like much, but when you allow it to work with making magical items as well, then it adds up and becomes more useful.
Now this is a house rule, and as a GM I make the players keep track of components costing 1 gp or more if they have a spell component pouch or Eschew materials.
If they have neither then I ask they keep track of their spell components till they do so.
Wizards when they prepare their spells they also prepare their spell component pouch for the spells they have ready, so they should not have to dig through too many items for each spell they cast.
You could be cruel and state they prepare spells components for a particular implementation of that spell so limiting the number of components needed to cast that day.
Not that I have done that yet.
I play by the rules. If it costs less than 1 gp, it's in the pouch. If it's more than a 1 gp, I pay for it, use it and replace it as needed. I'll occasionally make mention of "shopping for supplies" in town or "checking the woods" for components. I've even occasionally put a point into profession (herbalist) or knowledge (nature) to help justify how I'm getting supplies in odd locales.
Analyze Dweomer: F 1,500gp
Animate Dead: 25gp per hit dice per casting.
Arcane Lock: 25gp per casting.
Astral Projection: 1,000gp per casting.
Augury: 25 gp per casting plus 25gp for a Focus.
Atonement: 500gp for the Focus.
Awaken: 2,000gp per casting.
Binding: 500 gp per Hit dice plus other components.
Chain Lightning: Says you need one silver pin per caster level but it doesn't have a price. If the spell component pouch has all the components you need then why bother specifically stating you need a silver pin for each caster level?
Circle of Death: 500gp per casting.
Cloak of Chaos: 500gp per casting.
Clone: 1,000 per casting plus 500 gp for lab.
Commune: 500gp per casting.
Consecrate: 25 gp per casting.
Contingency: 1,500gp for the focus.
Continual Flame:50 gp ruby per casting.
Create Undead: 50gp per hit dice per casting.
Curse Water: 25 gp per casting.
Desecrate: 25gp per casting.
Destruction: 500gp per casting.
Divination: 25gp per casting.
False Vision: 250 gp per casting.
Fire Trap: 25 gp per casting.
Forbiddance: 1,500 gp per casting plus 1,500 per 60ft cube per casting.
Forcecage: 500gp per casting
Glyph of Warding: 200gp per casting.
Hallow: 1,000 per casting plus 1,000 per level of the spell to be included per casting.
Holy Aura: 500gp per casting.
Illusory Script: 50gp per casting.
Instant Summons: 1,000 per casting.
Legend Lore: 250gp per casting plus 200gp for a Focus.
Limited Wish: 1,500gp per casting.
Mage's Magnificent Mansion: 150 gp focus.
Mage's Sword: 250 gp focus.
Magic Jar: Could cost 100 gp per casting.
Magic Mouth: 10gp per casting.
Mnemonic Enhancer: 50 gp focus.
Nondetection: 50 gp per casting.
Permanency: Varies but in the thousands.
Phantom Trap: 50gp per casting.
Greater Planar Ally: 2,500 gp per casting plus payment.
Lesser Planar Ally: 500 gp per casting plus payment.
Planar Ally: 1,250gp per casting.
Planar Binding work like Planar Ally so they cost the same.
Project Image: 5 gp per casting.
Protection from Spells: (diamond worth...
Some of those are popular spells, but not commonly cast, in most games I have seen. IF they are used the gold should be expended for them. I have never been in a game where the cost was hand waved.
It's not the cost that gets handwaved, it's which specific kind of powdered gem they require. I think most people basically houserule that all expensive material components are gold coins.
I have done that before. Sometimes newer players won't notice the spell X had a cost so they will forget to buy the actual component. I will just tell them to mark the gold off of the character sheet.
I'm sure good few actually ignore spell components because I see people posting their Wizards and they spend all their cash in items which doesn't leave much room for the purchasing of spell components. If you go through the lists of spells then you will find that some of them aren't so cheap. For example, the Wall of Iron spell costs 50gp per casting. Mnemonic Enhancer will cost you a 50gp Focus and you have to find some black dragon blood which may not be easy and may be expensive.
If you don't really enforce all spell components then you essentially make "Eschew Materials" worthless.
I track spell components and I ask the spell casters where they got some of the more exotic components because if there is no way they could have gotten it then they won't be casting that spell until they actually find some.
I bet this gets hand waved a good bit.
i use them and force my players to take a note of every spell components. actualy i banned the eschew material feat (i have 3 new players to table rpg) because i want them to learn how to use them and after those first characters they can decides if they use that feat, or stay playing with the components...
Here's another one: why can a wizard get a pouch of a thousand different spell components for free and grab any one he wants from it without spending an action, but an archer needs to track arrows and spend a move action to take out a bow?
I'm going to say because casters have to keep track of their spells/day uses. If all they needed were components to cast, and not have to worry about spell slots, then your complaint would be valid, but at that point irrelevant.
Here's another one: why can a wizard get a pouch of a thousand different spell components for free and grab any one he wants from it without spending an action, but an archer needs to track arrows and spend a move action to take out a bow?I'm going to say because casters have to keep track of their spells/day uses. If all they needed were components to cast, and not have to worry about spell slots, then your complaint would be valid, but at that point irrelevant.
I always thought of prepared casters getting the s@&@ they need together for the specific spells they were choosing that day as part of the prep time.
Also archers get to draw arrows as a free, just like casters get to get components out as a free... balances out as Wizards are awesome and archery focused martials are awesome ;p.
Side note: I'm against tracking non-special arrows. You auto buy them in town and auto loot em off the enemy archers. Let's not discuss it and move on because we only have so much time to play per week.
Analyze Dweomer: F 1,500gp
Animate Dead: 25gp per hit dice per casting.
Arcane Lock: 25gp per casting.
Astral Projection: 1,000gp per casting.
Augury: 25 gp per casting plus 25gp for a Focus.
Atonement: 500gp for the Focus.
Awaken: 2,000gp per casting.
Binding: 500 gp per Hit dice plus other components.
Chain Lightning: Says you need one silver pin per caster level but it doesn't have a price. If the spell component pouch has all the components you need then why bother specifically stating you need a silver pin for each caster level?
Circle of Death: 500gp per casting.
Cloak of Chaos: 500gp per casting.
Clone: 1,000 per casting plus 500 gp for lab.
Commune: 500gp per casting.
Consecrate: 25 gp per casting.
Contingency: 1,500gp for the focus.
Continual Flame:50 gp ruby per casting.
Create Undead: 50gp per hit dice per casting.
Curse Water: 25 gp per casting.
Desecrate: 25gp per casting.
Destruction: 500gp per casting.
Divination: 25gp per casting.
False Vision: 250 gp per casting.
Fire Trap: 25 gp per casting.
Forbiddance: 1,500 gp per casting plus 1,500 per 60ft cube per casting.
Forcecage: 500gp per casting
Glyph of Warding: 200gp per casting.
Hallow: 1,000 per casting plus 1,000 per level of the spell to be included per casting.
Holy Aura: 500gp per casting.
Illusory Script: 50gp per casting.
Instant Summons: 1,000 per casting.
Legend Lore: 250gp per casting plus 200gp for a Focus.
Limited Wish: 1,500gp per casting.
Mage's Magnificent Mansion: 150 gp focus.
Mage's Sword: 250 gp focus.
Magic Jar: Could cost 100 gp per casting.
Magic Mouth: 10gp per casting.
Mnemonic Enhancer: 50 gp focus.
Nondetection: 50 gp per casting.
Permanency: Varies but in the thousands.
Phantom Trap: 50gp per casting.
Greater Planar Ally: 2,500 gp per casting plus payment.
Lesser Planar Ally: 500 gp per casting plus payment.
Planar Ally: 1,250gp per casting.
Planar Binding work like Planar Ally so they cost the same.
Project Image: 5 gp per casting.
Protection from Spells: (diamond worth...
Shallowsoul, who are you arguing with by posting this list? Pretty much every post I saw has agreed that the expensive components should be tracked and that the only ones that shouldn't be are the ones with no listed cost.
I'm just kinda confused. :/
Shallowsoul, who are you arguing with by posting this list? Pretty much every post I saw has agreed that the expensive components should be tracked and that the only ones that shouldn't be are the ones with no listed cost.
I'm just kinda confused. :/
Which, of course, is just RAW...
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I don't think the game needs to be bogged down with trivial details such as "did you get your bat guano" or "did your character crap today?"
OH WOW! NATURAL 20!!!
It depends on who I'm playing with.
But.
Yeah I enforce the M components.
I also use Encumbrance, ammunition tracking, the environmental rules, and whether there is food out in the wilderness (rations).
All of which has led to me being called a jerk by certain "types" of players.
I'm old school.
While I appreciate players not wanting to play "Ledgers and Accountants", my suggestion is to not automatically go for the classes where that's necessary at some level.
I have a player who always, always plays a wizard. I've learned over time that he has to provide me with a spell list, each game day or I have to refer to him as Schroedinger.
If I don't check encumbrance, in a point buy game at creation, he will have dumped his STR to 7 and be wandering around with 45lbs of gear. He'll always be lightly encumbered, even after he just looted a small fortune in rare books.
And Spellbooks, are heavy and awkwardly sized.
Spell component pouches, are NOT infinite. They have everything a 1st level caster needs. As he levels up the pouch gets more expensive. Expensive Focus items aren't free (after 1st level), they have to be purchased.
Pouches are 10gp at Lvl1, that price doubles at every caster level. I don't generally go after the pouch, but it happens. I usually leave familiars and bonded items alone, it'll be rare that I go after one (familiars especially).
Profession and craft skills ranks can be used to supplement your pouch.
We also use a variant houserule for components, sometimes other stuff works. Weird components can actually duplicate meta magic. Ex. A Solar's arrowhead makes a Magic Missle spell Maximised for free; a Leonal whisker makes Cat's Grace function at +5 cl.
My Player's have tried some weird combinations of stuff just to see what happens.
Ktulu wrote:
Because despite people saying that the wizard (and other spellcasters) is overpowered, the tendancy over time hasn't been to nerf the class, it's been to nerf the classes weaknesses (or eliminate them altogether).
Bingo, this is the single truest statement I've ever seen regarding Caster/Martial disparity in several years of reading this forum. Most people have just come to accept that Wizards have no down side. It isn't true.
Now I don't require constant ledgers, but my regular group knows full well that some aspects of the game are actual parts of the game. If I ask for something pertaining to THEIR character, they need to know the answer. Like how much their gear weighs or if they have the ability to start a fire.
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If you're escalating the price of spell components that are supposed to be free you are houseruling to make your players' lives more difficult.
Yes it's a houserule but please explain to me how you are making life more difficult for arguably the most powerful class in the game.
How about fully explain this in detail because it's absurd as hell to be honest?
I mean boo hoo freakin hoo.
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They said make your players' lives more difficult, not the class. It's a total pain in the arse for players of spellcasters to keep track of their (inexpensive) material components (and it's not just wizards that have to deal with it, every caster bar sorcerers has to without the feat). It's annoying enough to keep track of encumbrance by weight or things like ammunition, rations, etc... which is why many groups don't.
By the by, I remove all non-expensive material components from my game (and even a lot of the expensive ones at that). All casters without Eschew Materials instead have a focus item that they use to cast their spells through, whether that's a holy symbol, a weapon, a ring, a staff, whatever. It fits how most spellcasters in games and movies and books cast, so it's thematically cool, and nobody has to worry about bat guano or whatever nonsense joke Gygax decided to play back in 1e that's been brought on through the editions. Expensive materials are less likely to be "go to the gemcutter and buy an expensive diamond" and more likely to be plot-related things of coolness, like a phoenix feather for raise dead and the like.
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I dislike most of the material components, because they make huge assumptions about the campaign world. You try finding a piece of silk in a stone-age tundra setting.
Basically, I assume the pouch has it all, and that most of it just arcane junk; the listed component is merely a suggestion, you can substitute other things. ("It says here squid tentacle, but a spider will also do.")
I particularly detest things like "a dragon scale" that seem to suggest that dragon scales are readily available, OR that the spell has been stealth-nerfed.
I make one exception: material components that make sense to be so specific. Tissue samples for shapeshifting spells are the prime example, but also (ironically) dragon scales for the Dragon Breath spell. Some of them will be available in the pouch (human hair), some won't be (samples from rare creatures). Either go find those creatures, do epic shopping in obscure stores in trading hubs, or take Eschew Materials.
Yes, Eschew Materials is relevant, if you want to use Dragon Breath for full value.
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They said make your players' lives more difficult, not the class. It's a total pain in the arse for players of spellcasters to keep track of their (inexpensive) material components (and it's not just wizards that have to deal with it, every caster bar sorcerers has to without the feat). It's annoying enough to keep track of encumbrance by weight or things like ammunition, rations, etc... which is why many groups don't.
By the by, I remove all non-expensive material components from my game (and even a lot of the expensive ones at that). All casters without Eschew Materials instead have a focus item that they use to cast their spells through, whether that's a holy symbol, a weapon, a ring, a staff, whatever. It fits how most spellcasters in games and movies and books cast, so it's thematically cool, and nobody has to worry about bat guano or whatever nonsense joke Gygax decided to play back in 1e that's been brought on through the editions. Expensive materials are less likely to be "go to the gemcutter and buy an expensive diamond" and more likely to be plot-related things of coolness, like a phoenix feather for raise dead and the like.
Small price to pay if you want to play a caster.
Seems there's a thing going on around here to where people want all the power of a class but they think the drawbacks are unfair.
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...Analyze Dweomer: F 1,500gp
Animate Dead: 25gp per hit dice per casting.
Arcane Lock: 25gp per casting.
Astral Projection: 1,000gp per casting.
Augury: 25 gp per casting plus 25gp for a Focus.
Atonement: 500gp for the Focus.
Awaken: 2,000gp per casting.
Binding: 500 gp per Hit dice plus other components.
Chain Lightning: Says you need one silver pin per caster level but it doesn't have a price. If the spell component pouch has all the components you need then why bother specifically stating you need a silver pin for each caster level?
Circle of Death: 500gp per casting.
Cloak of Chaos: 500gp per casting.
Clone: 1,000 per casting plus 500 gp for lab.
Commune: 500gp per casting.
Consecrate: 25 gp per casting.
Contingency: 1,500gp for the focus.
Continual Flame:50 gp ruby per casting.
Create Undead: 50gp per hit dice per casting.
Curse Water: 25 gp per casting.
Desecrate: 25gp per casting.
Destruction: 500gp per casting.
Divination: 25gp per casting.
False Vision: 250 gp per casting.
Fire Trap: 25 gp per casting.
Forbiddance: 1,500 gp per casting plus 1,500 per 60ft cube per casting.
Forcecage: 500gp per casting
Glyph of Warding: 200gp per casting.
Hallow: 1,000 per casting plus 1,000 per level of the spell to be included per casting.
Holy Aura: 500gp per casting.
Illusory Script: 50gp per casting.
Instant Summons: 1,000 per casting.
Legend Lore: 250gp per casting plus 200gp for a Focus.
Limited Wish: 1,500gp per casting.
Mage's Magnificent Mansion: 150 gp focus.
Mage's Sword: 250 gp focus.
Magic Jar: Could cost 100 gp per casting.
Magic Mouth: 10gp per casting.
Mnemonic Enhancer: 50 gp focus.
Nondetection: 50 gp per casting.
Permanency: Varies but in the thousands.
Phantom Trap: 50gp per casting.
Greater Planar Ally: 2,500 gp per casting plus payment.
Lesser Planar Ally: 500 gp per casting plus payment.
Planar Ally: 1,250gp per casting.
Planar Binding work like Planar Ally so they cost the same.
Project Image: 5 gp per casting.
I used to have a few people that would load their spell list down with the various Symbol spells. They never ever paid attention to the cost or either they thought I just wouldn't notice.
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Small price to pay if you want to play a caster.
Seems there's a thing going on around here to where people want all the power of a class but they think the drawbacks are unfair.
Punishing in-game power with out of game tedium solves absolutely nothing.
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But it's true. Making a wizard track spell components does literally nothing to reduce their in-game abilities, unless you get to the point of playing a game of Statblocks & Spreadsheets and track every individual piece of string or poop and restricting its availability. In which case the player would probably just pick spells that use string or wool fluff or matches or other common things.
All it serves is to annoy the player with incredibly irrelevant minutiae.
I've heard that excuse before.
Probably because-
But it's true. Making a wizard track spell components does literally nothing to reduce their in-game abilities, unless you get to the point of playing a game of Statblocks & Spreadsheets and track every individual piece of string or poop and restricting its availability. In which case the player would probably just pick spells that use string or wool fluff or matches or other common things.
All it serves is to annoy the player with incredibly irrelevant minutiae.
Yeah that about sums it up.
I'm sure good few actually ignore spell components because I see people posting their Wizards and they spend all their cash in items which doesn't leave much room for the purchasing of spell components. If you go through the lists of spells then you will find that some of them aren't so cheap. For example, the Wall of Iron spell costs 50gp per casting. Mnemonic Enhancer will cost you a 50gp Focus and you have to find some black dragon blood which may not be easy and may be expensive.
If you don't really enforce all spell components then you essentially make "Eschew Materials" worthless.
I track spell components and I ask the spell casters where they got some of the more exotic components because if there is no way they could have gotten it then they won't be casting that spell until they actually find some.
I bet this gets hand waved a good bit.
Out of curiosity, do you track every copper your PCs spend on food and drink? Make them buy new clothes every year or six months or more often? Charge them for every night they stay in an inn? Bowstrings? To maintain and repair broken equipment?
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But it's true. Making a wizard track spell components does literally nothing to reduce their in-game abilities, unless you get to the point of playing a game of Statblocks & Spreadsheets and track every individual piece of string or poop and restricting its availability. In which case the player would probably just pick spells that use string or wool fluff or matches or other common things.
All it serves is to annoy the player with incredibly irrelevant minutiae.
Actually, if you do make a spellcaster track his costly components then you will find out that it can get pretty expensive when casting certain spells so he/she will have to choose whether to spend money on certain components or magic gear, scrolls, wands, etc...
How much life can you get out of one spell component pouch?
It does reach an end if you aren't actively looking for more materials to fill it.
Its assumed that a caster is refilling it with things he/she finds along the way when possible and buying in town what he/she can't find otherwise.
EX: Fight one dire bat = Year supply of Guano.
It's just not necessary to role play scooping Guano into a bag.
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Out of curiosity, do you track every copper your PCs spend on food and drink? Make them buy new clothes every year or six months or more often? Charge them for every night they stay in an inn? Bowstrings? To maintain and repair broken equipment?I'm sure good few actually ignore spell components because I see people posting their Wizards and they spend all their cash in items which doesn't leave much room for the purchasing of spell components. If you go through the lists of spells then you will find that some of them aren't so cheap. For example, the Wall of Iron spell costs 50gp per casting. Mnemonic Enhancer will cost you a 50gp Focus and you have to find some black dragon blood which may not be easy and may be expensive.
If you don't really enforce all spell components then you essentially make "Eschew Materials" worthless.
I track spell components and I ask the spell casters where they got some of the more exotic components because if there is no way they could have gotten it then they won't be casting that spell until they actually find some.
I bet this gets hand waved a good bit.
Those things are listed in the book and their prices so yes I do.