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I tried LARP once. My girlfriend at the time had a friend who had their whole plantation modded for such events. Tons of their friends came out to do this every couple months or so. I asked if I could any kind of person, including a thief.
I was welcomed to do so.
Whole weekend, and I played the part of a thieving hoodlum. I stole everything from ceremonial daggers, belt buckles, coin purses, to even the King's Crown.
I had no idea I was that good of a thief.
End of the weekend came, and I revealed that all the missing things everyone was looking for, were stolen by my me.
They were pissed, and asked that I not attend again.
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It's good that you discovered you had a skill set that you didn't know you had. Never know when it could come in handy :D
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Actually, after having my dad help him steal stuff as a child, I wasn't too surprised.
The surprising part was just how good I was. Especially with the pickpocketing.
I was sure I had okay'd it with everyone. The whole "are you sure?" and "can I be a thief?" seemed clear to me.
So, that is how bad it can go, even when warned ahead of time.
You would think that people would know exactly what they were getting into if you specifically asked if a concept would be ok, and then double checked with a "really?" and what I'm sure was a slightly puzzled look when they said yes.
I wonder if they expected you to be like the pirates on children's television, and just sit around singing about how you like swag and booty, but then never actually go out and plunder the high seas.
Hey that's well within your right, if you don't want to play in that kind of situation that's up to you, but other people can and do like the intra-party intrigue and can do it w/ little to no PVP or drama.Like I said, it takes a good group of mature players to pull it off and not all groups are full of mature players as we all know.
First the OP doesn't seem to know the group well enough to know how they will take it. Second: As long as you don't have a talk with your group about the topic you can never be sure. Thats why I insist that you have to let the players know. If you already had such a talk in the past and know everyone is ok, fine.
Second: Telling us that mature players have no problem with in party PVP is like saying that those of us who don't like it are childish or immature. And that is an insult. And because another poster kept repeating that way why I called him despicable.
TL;DR
If you don't talk to your group you can't know if they like in party PVP and a group can consist of marture players and still hate PVP.
He's also a world of warcraft player, so I think he's more used to that realm of loot spreading, he also said he really enjoyed the PvP aspect of WoW... so I think he's looking for that same aspect. Whereas everyone else looks at is as a social experience.
First, remind me never to game with a WOW player. Second, this is precisely why I hate MMORPG's, and why I will never subscribe to that kind of nonsense. I have been gaming for a long time, since the old Atari 2600 days and 1st ed D&D, and I can tell you that it is never a good thing when PvP occurs.
Third, if those players ever catch on to you helping this dipstick swipe from the party, you are going to have a seriously ticked off group who may not want to game with you again.
Seriously man, there are some things you never ever do. Ever watch old Westerns? This is lower than horse thievery in a John Wayne movie. Swiping or assassinating other PC's is bad, but a DM colluding with that? Bad karma. This will NOT turn out well, trust me on this. If there's anything I am good at, it's spotting danger way before anyone else. Quick tip: Never touch anybody else's dice without prior permission. That too will not be a good thing, but definitely not on the scale of the Ghostbusters sized Twinkie you are contemplating now.
Fourth, tell him to stop and think. These guys make their characters, and they frequently spend a lot of effort in the doing, depending on how hack n slash vs roleplaying the game is. This is exactly why I came up with the PvP Lawful Good rule. Treat the NPC's how you wish; and they will act accordingly. Treat the PC's as if you were LG, always.
Fifth, as a DM, you have to remember that in some ways you are the Dad of the group, like it or not. They look at you to keep things fair, and as such it is your duty to keep watch for screwy crap. Remember that the whole point of the game is to have fun. When players start screwing each other over, watch their faces and vocal tones etc. You will quickly note that they are becoming unhappy, and believe me I have tried to have groups of all ages be okay with PvP. It never works out in the long run. You might think it okay to do so with LARPing, but remember that those only last for a few hours each month. Nobody gets as attached as they do with their PC's in a tabletop gaming group. Heck, not even video game players can get as attached to their characters as with a tabletop bunch. Don't believe me? Go read Knights of the Dinner Table.
Me, I try not to dictate roles to people in a game. But I step in when things threaten to boil out of control.
. . . Set the expectations clearly and anything goes. Spring situations on players out of the blue that are known to be controversial, and that's just being a richard.
I'm not 100% familiar with 'Richard', but I completely agree with everything you've said.
I googled Richard D&D, but to no avail. =( I lose at the internet.. . . They were pissed, and asked that I not attend again.
Yea... as I think about it, the group I used to LARP with are rather infamous for being player killers. Perhaps my group was more the exception rather than the norm.
If anyone is curious, I asked the group as discretely as I could if they'd be interested in allowing PvP. I actually copied and pasted what Adamantine suggested earlier.
Hubby and Wifey asked, "Why? Is Andy bored?"
I literally lol'd.
"He can do what he wants, but it will likely turn out ugly."
With that, I decided it's reason enough to not allow it. I'll simply say it's outside the scope of my preparation for this campaign, plus I never warned players that such actions were on the table.
If Andy doesn't like it, not a big deal, D&D isn't made for everyone.
First, remind me never to game with a WOW player. Second, this is precisely why I hate MMORPG's, and why I will never subscribe to that kind of nonsense. I have been gaming for a long time, since the old Atari 2600 days and 1st ed D&D, and I can tell you that it is never a good thing when PvP occurs.
Most of the people I game with are WoW players or have been in the past. None of them are like that.
We talk about the kinds of games we want to have pretty openly. Some are very cooperative, some are bit more selfish and mercenary, but its all driven by storyline, character personalities and what we agree upon.
Good show!
Those are pretty much the responses I would expect, and you've dealt with it very well (though I'll be interested in hearing how Andy responds).
And this also brings up the crux of the matter, really: PvP activity (as opposed to CvC - Character vs Character) is only viable when the entire group buys into the premise from the outset. Characters can try to one-up each other as much as they want, but the players shouldn't without the informed consent of the rest of the group.
my opinion not sure if this has been mentioned or not but:
1)Don't pander to Andy's every wish, it only gets worse treat everyone the same in the game. Otherwise you may end up with 4 resentful players as he turns to them and says, the GM said it was OK...
2)Treasure, leave it in the hands of the players and let them deal with it, either have one person keep a party record or let the PC who found the treasure have it and divvy it out as they see fit or keep it if they want. This way if the treasue is siphoned off, goes missing etc then they can deal with it, no doubt the group will have an idea if he decides to flitter the money away but still seems to have money all the time.
3) Deal with the issue fairly at the table if it comes up, as you do slight of hand rolls vs perception etc.
4) Try to knock any PVP at the table, interparty sqabbles can be fun but at the same time they can turn nasty and implode a game.
Yeah, good show. If you care, I'd like to hear what ultimately happened with that player.
Sorry, that's not right. This thread is specifically from a GM seeking advice, and the title of the thread makes it clear that the GM in question is already convinced that he's going to hack off someone, regardless. The context isn't about the rare group that enjoys backstabbing player vs player games. The context is about what to advise a GM who has already voiced a concern that his group probably doesn't want to play that way, but a SINGLE PLAYER does. Thus the advice to be wary of those who would say "oh, your group should play that way."
Where in my post am I referring to the OP? Umbranus is the poster I am referring to, who thinks that RP'ing a character that steals things is literally stealing from your friend.
Beej says it is possible, when most other posters are saying "literally impossible". I would agree that in this situation here it probably would not work to rp it in, but I could easily imagine doing it with the players I know now, who are pretty mature guys who love plot twists in their pathfinder
You are wrong. I don't know if you don't want to understand or if you can't understand what I am saying but I'll gladly repeat rephrase:
If a one player and the GM work together to let the player's pc steal from the other pcs those two (GM + player) are not stealing from the other players but they are cheating.
It is the same as if the GM told one player: While everyone else uses a 20 point buy you can use a 30 point buy but we keep this secret.
If he instead told the group: Listen, you are all advanced players with good char building abilities so I give Andy some more buildpoints to make up for him being new. That is a basis for a game. Just doing it is cheating.
If the player wants to indulge a bit of PvP, break out a game of Paranoia. It isn't a game I'd choose for a campaign, but it's perfect for settling the itch to "do somebody wrong".
Then go back to your regular campaign without any PvP crap.
Who is this 'Richard' guy?
Why is he getting such a bad press?
The original Richard Cranium, he even had awards named in his honour. He truly was the original jerk.
Let me state that I have been dming for around 32 years now and until recently I never allowed PVP. The player that started it always plays LG and has been with us for around 10+ years so I did not have an issue that it was deserved. I would agree that in most cases it is not a good idea, but sometimes can be used by the players to keep others in line.
Glad to hear that the situation has been resolved.
I tried LARP once. My girlfriend at the time had a friend who had their whole plantation modded for such events. Tons of their friends came out to do this every couple months or so. I asked if I could any kind of person, including a thief.
I was welcomed to do so.Whole weekend, and I played the part of a thieving hoodlum. I stole everything from ceremonial daggers, belt buckles, coin purses, to even the King's Crown.
I had no idea I was that good of a thief.End of the weekend came, and I revealed that all the missing things everyone was looking for, were stolen by my me.
They were pissed, and asked that I not attend again.
God I hope you are joking and I am missing this. But otherwise, are you saying you actually literally picked their pockets? No wonder they were pissed off. You actually physically stole things from people. A live action roleplay is still roleplay, you no more actually steal things from people than you would actually stab them in the face with a bladed weapon.
I don't know if this is a boffer LARP or a theater LARP, but I know at least in the latter, "playing thief" would mean resolving a skill challenge with the other players. Just like in tabletop, except instead of dice, you either bid cards based on your powers and skills or resolve the challenge via something like rock-paper-scissors. The target of the thief would make their "opposed check" versus your thief check, and if you succeeded, they would give you the item you were targeting, and the player would meta-game know you had done it, but in character would act as if they had not noticed.
I don't know boffer LARP rules but I can't imagine in this circumstance being much different.
You were lucky someone didn't call the cops--what if something of true value went missing? Even if you weren't to blame, admitting what you'd done would make you the first suspect.
If anyone is curious, I asked the group as discretely as I could if they'd be interested in allowing PvP. I actually copied and pasted what Adamantine suggested earlier.Hubby and Wifey asked, "Why? Is Andy bored?"
I literally lol'd.
"He can do what he wants, but it will likely turn out ugly."With that, I decided it's reason enough to not allow it. I'll simply say it's outside the scope of my preparation for this campaign, plus I never warned players that such actions were on the table.
If Andy doesn't like it, not a big deal, D&D isn't made for everyone.
Sounds like you did what I personally would consider to be the right thing here Ebola. Not that my opinion is all that important. Had I known my words would be used in the resolution, I probably would have spent more time crafting the message, but it sounds like it went OK.
Just fyi, if husband and wifey immediately jumped to the conclusion that this was a result of "Andy" being bored, Andy is already a problem at the table. He needs to either figure out how to be properly engaged and contribute meaningfully to the group, or it might be time to ask him if he has other hobbies he can practice in place of playing Pathfinder.
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God I hope you are joking and I am missing this. But otherwise, are you saying you actually literally picked their pockets? No wonder they were pissed off. You actually physically stole things from people. A live action roleplay is still roleplay, you no more actually steal things from people than you would actually stab them in the face with a bladed weapon.I don't know if this is a boffer LARP or a theater LARP, but I know at least in the latter, "playing thief" would mean resolving a skill challenge with the other players. Just like in tabletop, except instead of dice, you either bid cards based on your powers and skills or resolve the challenge via something like rock-paper-scissors. The target of the thief would make their "opposed check" versus your thief check, and if you succeeded, they would give you the item you were targeting, and the player would meta-game know you had done it, but in character would act as if they had not noticed.
I don't know boffer LARP rules but I can't imagine in this circumstance being much different.
You were lucky someone didn't call the cops--what if something of true value went missing? Even if you weren't to blame, admitting what you'd done would make you the first suspect.
There was no boffer, and no "bid cards". Obviously, I had not done it before. Also, I revealed, and returned, everything at the end.
Call the Cops? After letting them know it was a game of pretend, and the fact that the items would returned, they would likely just be pissed that their time was wasted. Cards? So, diplomacy and a Bard's song are handled with cards? That kind of LARP sounds horrible.If I wasn't certain that this was not my thing, then that definitely affirms it.
The issue with "skimming off the top" or "pocketing a little extra gold" is that it is stealing from the rest of the party.
Let's say a group of four friends starts a business making toys and after a while three of them discover that the fourth has been "pocketing a little extra cash".
The result of that discovery would likely result in at the very least a confrontation and removal of the thief from the business. In most cases it would involve legal action, both of the civil and criminal variety. In the end it would destroy friendships and potentially wreck families.
"Oh, but this is just a game" you say. Fine. But it's a ROLE PLAYING game, which means that in game the player characters should react just as harshly, probably even more harshly since in THIS business, the characters are literally risking their lives to make the gold that the thief has been stealing. So beyond kicking out the thief, it might well be considered reasonable to execute the offending character. After all, you hang horse thieves.
Sounds like good fun doesn't it? Lots of rich role playing material there.
Except lots of people don't want to role play that sort of violent confrontation between supposed friends. Some people might find role playing such a situation extremely stressful and unpleasant. If the situation goes to mortal combat, someone might lose a character they have spent months building and enjoying, all because someone wanted to "skim a little off the top".
To assert that "it's all in fun" is simply to demonstrate a lack of awareness of how emotionally invested some players get with their characters and the other characters in their group. And to put people in the position of either having to accept behavior they find deplorable, or else engage in confrontation they find to be stressful is an imposition that goes beyond common bounds of decency.
And that's not even addressing the many, many players who have difficulty separating their own emotions and reactions from those of their character, and who will...
Isn't this some of the reasons why Image comics more or less disbanded?
didn't tasslehoff always swipe stuff from the group? Wasn't it just handwaved off like "silly kender can't help himself?"
It was the motivation that makes the difference. He was curious and was not out to screw over the group.
There was no boffer, and no "bid cards". Obviously, I had not done it before. Also, I revealed, and returned, everything at the end.
Call the Cops? After letting them know it was a game of pretend, and the fact that the items would returned, they would likely just be pissed that their time was wasted. Cards? So, diplomacy and a Bard's song are handled with cards? That kind of LARP sounds horrible.
If I wasn't certain that this was not my thing, then that definitely affirms it.
Not playing a LARP before does not excuse larceny, however petty. There should have been no indication that that ever would have been okay. Someone should have explained to you how the rules work (however they do, different LARPs use different systems of managing challenges, I am not going to bore you and the board with the various ways it can be handled) and made sure you understand, but that is absolutely no excuse. (("Boffer" LARPing involves padded or NERF weapons, so people do "Act out" some combat and other abilities, but still in a harmless fashion.))
And yes, if you truly stole people's actual physical property, someone did have the right to call the cops, because what you did is commit a crime. The context of it happening at a game is irrelevant. It's like someone saying, "But it was a Vampire LARP, so it's okay for me to bite into this guy's neck and drain him dry of blood, right?" Certainly not as vile or lastingly harmful, but I think the principle applies.
As you say it is a game of pretend. You doing a real thing to real people that really violated their personal space and really took their personal belongings that they spent time and money on buying or making has nothing of "pretend" about it, yes, even if you returned their items to them afterward. What if you had lost or damaged them?
My fear is the social aspect of the game, am I potentially ruining a joyful/blissful experience for our little clique
You probably ARE going to ruin the game for many of your players if you do this. I have played many such games when I was younger and it never ends well. The ones being robbed of their share are probably going to kill off the thief when they notice... so even he won't be happy in the end.
He needs to take a break from gaming... It sounds like he is suffering from player burnout at best or simple lack of interest in gaming at worst. The solution is the same in either case.
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Not playing a LARP before does not excuse larceny, however petty. There should have been no indication that that ever would have been okay. Someone should have explained to you how the rules work (however they do, different LARPs use different systems of managing challenges, I am not going to bore you and the board with the various ways it can be handled) and made sure you understand, but that is absolutely no excuse.And yes, if you truly stole people's actual physical property, someone did have the right to call the cops, because what you did is commit a crime. The context of it happening at a game is irrelevant. It's like someone saying, "But it was a Vampire LARP, so it's okay for me to bite into this guy's neck and drain him dry of blood, right?"
Alright, alright. I am a terrible person, committed a horrible act, and should have been ass-raped in prison. Just because no one actually told me anything, lost anything, and I considered my double checking clear, doesn't excuse it. In fact, just because I was 16 at the time, it doesn't mean I shouldn't have been tried as an adult. I violated their happiness with with my sinister actions.
I will never be forgiven, as it should be.I am glad that I was made aware, as it is only right that live each day in self-torturous regret.
Thank you.
BBT, I don't think you should have been treated any differently than you were under the circumstances. You seemed not to understand why people would react in such a way, and that struck me as rather surprising to say the least. If you SAID "I am going to pick your pockets" and people said "okay" and then you did it and people got pissed off, then that's their fault. If you said "can I play a thief" by which people probably just thought that was your character and didn't realize you were asking to actually to remove items from them without their awareness, then that is not on them, that is on you for not being clear and manipulating events to pull a nasty trick. But if you need it to be explained to you why stealing is wrong, then... well, I'm the wrong person to do it anyway, and I made a mistake of choosing this as the time or place to take it up with you. I will say nothing further about it.
Hey that's well within your right, if you don't want to play in that kind of situation that's up to you, but other people can and do like the intra-party intrigue and can do it w/ little to no PVP or drama.Like I said, it takes a good group of mature players to pull it off and not all groups are full of mature players as we all know.
First the OP doesn't seem to know the group well enough to know how they will take it. Second: As long as you don't have a talk with your group about the topic you can never be sure. Thats why I insist that you have to let the players know. If you already had such a talk in the past and know everyone is ok, fine.
Second: Telling us that mature players have no problem with in party PVP is like saying that those of us who don't like it are childish or immature. And that is an insult. And because another poster kept repeating that way why I called him despicable.
TL;DR
If you don't talk to your group you can't know if they like in party PVP and a group can consist of marture players and still hate PVP.
Firstly, I understand that and that's why I said it's up to the OP and his group to play in that kind of game in the first place. If they all agree to try to play in a game where this is okay then more power to them and I hope they have fun.
Second, I stand by my opinion that it takes mature players with good knowledge of the game and who keep the meta-gaming out of it to pull off a good campaign that has a rogue or thief in the group who steals from them. After reading all of the flaming going back and forth between multiple posters I also say that I'd probably never play with 90% of the people on here because they are very immature and seemingly just like to nerd-rage just to be Richards. You may take it as an insult if you like, but I never directly said you were immature @Umbranus.
My definition of immature is probably different from a lot of others on here, it doesn't involve age, it involves attitude. I believe it means people can play w/o too much meta-gaming, without drama that affects them personally (when it involves their characters), and who can deal with adult subject matter with grace and see it as an opportunity to further immerse themselves into the world.
If you can't deal with it because your character died and you spent 12 levels and 1 1/2 years of your life playing that character then you aren't mature to me. Characters die, the imaginary world moves on and you roll up a new PC. I don't understand this sense of entitlement a lot of people get with their PC's, but that's just me and how I look at the hobby. My 2 cents, take it or leave it. Agree with it or don't, I don't care because I'm not playing with you and will never interact with you beyond the computer screen.
Uber Nerd, the majority of people on this thread have not been discussing the relative value or enjoyment of participating in a campaign which allows controversial activities to occur.
The majority of people on this thread have been discussing the relative value or enjoyment of participating in a campaign where they had no reason to expect controversial behavior, and were about to have it thrust on them because of the actions of a single player collaborating privately with the GM.
There have been several posters on this thread who seem to be of the opinion that many of us who have said "get everyone on the same page" are saying "stealing from the party is badwrongfun". That is not the case.
What we are saying is that certain behaviors need to be communicated well in advance and everyone in the group needs to be aware of the potential to encounter those behaviors, just so that if or when they happen, it is not a shock and is not viewed as a conspiracy or a betrayal.
Allowing the GM and a single player to conspire to "skim a bit off the top" of loot is just one example of potentially controversial in game behavior. Other examples are player vs player combat or sexual activity between player characters.
I have played in campaigns where all of these things happen. In the cases where it has been a problem, it has frequently been because of assumptions certain players made about the table mores and culture.
Just one final point. If you find yourself unable to bear gaming with 90% of the people who posted on this board, that would indicate to me a problem with your tolerance level, or your understanding of what those people are saying, not a problem with the vast majority of the posters themselves. I personally haven't seen anything from anyone on this thread that would cause me to react with "Heck, I'd never play with YOU."
For what it's worth, I'd play with you without any problem.
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Yeah, no.
This is going to end up horribly no matter what happens. He should NOT be asking YOU about this, but the rest of the party. If they're cool with it, then it'd be a fantastic RP thing, but suddenly springing on the party "oh, by the way, this guy you thought you could trust has been stealing s~%% from you all along" will only end awfully.
This. I have a player (off and on player over many years) that always plays a thief/rogue and always attempts to steal from the party, either directly or by trying to get a larger share. Not sure what he gets out of it really. It is game destroying due to trust issues between players (not characters). I got annoyed enough a few months ago to suggest that if he didn't want to play a game that revolved around a group of heroes not just himself then he should GM. He took a little offence to this but ultimately the rest of the players are happier and the game doesn't grind to a halt under accusations (usually rightly) from others against this player.
EDIT: And what AD said above. The only thing is if even if (in my case) the players all agreed that the one player could steal from them it doesn't really help. Again disrupts the game - be faster to just say, hey thief you get +X per encounter as we will assume you stole something. Not badwrongfun just plain boring.
S.
Uber Nerd, the majority of people on this thread have not been discussing the relative value or enjoyment of participating in a campaign which allows controversial activities to occur.
The majority of people on this thread have been discussing the relative value or enjoyment of participating in a campaign where they had no reason to expect controversial behavior, and were about to have it thrust on them because of the actions of a single player collaborating privately with the GM.
There have been several posters on this thread who seem to be of the opinion that many of us who have said "get everyone on the same page" are saying "stealing from the party is badwrongfun". That is not the case.
What we are saying is that certain behaviors need to be communicated well in advance and everyone in the group needs to be aware of the potential to encounter those behaviors, just so that if or when they happen, it is not a shock and is not viewed as a conspiracy or a betrayal.
Allowing the GM and a single player to conspire to "skim a bit off the top" of loot is just one example of potentially controversial in game behavior. Other examples are player vs player combat or sexual activity between player characters.
I have played in campaigns where all of these things happen. In the cases where it has been a problem, it has frequently been because of assumptions certain players made about the table mores and culture.
Just one final point. If you find yourself unable to bear gaming with 90% of the people who posted on this board, that would indicate to me a problem with your tolerance level, or your understanding of what those people are saying, not a problem with the vast majority of the posters themselves. I personally haven't seen anything from anyone on this thread that would cause me to react with "Heck, I'd never play with YOU."
For what it's worth, I'd play with you without any problem.
Fair enough because the OP has stated a few times that this was a bored player seemingly just wanting to be a Richard because he wanted his PC to whore, drink, and gamble away the excess he wanted to steal from the other PC's. I totally agree if this was a game where he played a rogue who liked to steal all the time and the other players knew this that he'd be watched and if caught most likely killed or punished in some fashion.
As it is described I also agree that the GM should never enter into an agreement to screw over the other PC's and team up with the bored player so that his PC has more fun. I do however see a bit of an overreaction on the forum posts by quite a few people. This whole subject got pretty blown up pretty fast with multiple pages of arguments being made. It all does come down to the group and how they want to play. They have to be in agreement that PVP and intra-party stealing/conflict can happen or can NOT happen. If "Andy" wants to try to steal from his party member he will have to be aware of the consequences that they may punish and/or kill his PC for doing so and to come to the table with a backup PC already rolled up and pre-approved by the GM.
Edit: What I meant by the 90% comment was that I feel that quite a few people on the boards will flame and overreact for the smallest things and imagined insults. I can't play with those types of people or personalities because it drains the fun out of the hobby for me. I want to have fun and play a cool character or run an epic campaign.
I have played in a game where a rogue kept more loot for himself, but this was all done in-character, and sometimes it was loot he legitimately acquired on his own, anyway. The main thing is...he was doing it in character, and we were all aware of it. As a player, I would feel more betrayed by my GM than the other player. And as a character, there's a good chance I would seriously f!#! up someone who did this to me. Kill him outright, "forget" to heal him in battle, etc. Andy sounds like a toolbag.
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Edit: What I meant by the 90% comment was that I feel that quite a few people on the boards will flame and overreact for the smallest things and imagined insults. I can't play with those types of people or personalities because it drains the fun out of the hobby for me. I want to have fun and play a cool character or run an epic campaign.
Part of that is just the internet culture and communication mechanism. I know that people always seem to think I'm more emotionally invested in a discussion than I think I am. It has been my experience that a lot of the flaming that goes on is due to the difficulty of communicating any sort of subtlety in text, coupled with a tendency to view things in print as being more direct and meaningful than hearing something in conversation. Then all of that is escalated by the feelings of invulnerability typing alone in your office or basement provides.
It's like a vicious cycle where every turn around the axis exacerbates the lack of subtlety which ramps up the emotional response, which triggers a more harsh reaction until you get a thread on oatmeal-raisin bagels ending up with comparisons to Hitler or Stalin.
It's really interesting from a sociological perspective.
God I hope you are joking and I am missing this. But otherwise, are you saying you actually literally picked their pockets? No wonder they were pissed off. You actually physically stole things from people. A live action roleplay is still roleplay, you no more actually steal things from people than you would actually stab them in the face with a bladed weapon.I don't know if this is a boffer LARP or a theater LARP, but I know at least in the latter, "playing thief" would mean resolving a skill challenge with the other players. Just like in tabletop, except instead of dice, you either bid cards based on your powers and skills or resolve the challenge via something like rock-paper-scissors. The target of the thief would make their "opposed check" versus your thief check, and if you succeeded, they would give you the item you were targeting, and the player would meta-game know you had done it, but in character would act as if they had not noticed.
I don't know boffer LARP rules but I can't imagine in this circumstance being much different.
You were lucky someone didn't call the cops--what if something of true value went missing? Even if you weren't to blame, admitting what you'd done would make you the first suspect.
That honestly sounds boring as all hell. If there's no difference between LARPing and regular tabletop-ing, why wouldn't I stay inside where it's cool?
I've done a few impromptu "LARPs" with people and there was never any of this "opposed skill check" stuff. If we wanted to steal things, we tried to steal them. If we wanted to hit somebody with a sword, we hit them with the sword, and if somebody wanted to cast a spell they chucked a ball or something at them.
Really? Breaking the rules? Pleeeaaasse. If I wanted to play with a bunch of rules lawyers i'd join the pathfinder society. Rules. How about a chaotic evil character in the party of a paladin, the rules would say they can't party together as they would try to kill each other, but people can't even attack each other in the PFS.
1.) Rules are what this game runs on. Pointing out that something is clearly stated under the Paladin's Code of Conduct as being out of the question or he will lose his powers is not "Rules Lawyering" it's having a cursory familiarity with the rules.
2.) Perhaps you SHOULD actually read the CoC, since it clearly states that he CAN party up with CE members in exceptional circumstances or to further the cause of Good/defeat a bigger Evil.
As for a paladin wanting to occasionally do bad things I brought this very scenario up at one workshop where we discussed ideas for upcoming players companions. Think outside the box because you are missing the real fun of These types of games. For anyone who's played 1st edition they will know what I'm talking about.
The point still stands that "being creative" is not the same as "ignoring the rules". If you want to be a Paladin and still break the rules, there's a class for that. It's called Fighter.
That's essentially the same as saying "I want to be a Druid, but every now and then I want to rape and kill a puppy because I felt like it", and that's okay because following the Druid's CoC is just Rules Lawyering nonsense.
Edit: What I meant by the 90% comment was that I feel that quite a few people on the boards will flame and overreact for the smallest things and imagined insults. I can't play with those types of people or personalities because it drains the fun out of the hobby for me. I want to have fun and play a cool character or run an epic campaign.Part of that is just the internet culture and communication mechanism. I know that people always seem to think I'm more emotionally invested in a discussion than I think I am. It has been my experience that a lot of the flaming that goes on is due to the difficulty of communicating any sort of subtlety in text, coupled with a tendency to view things in print as being more direct and meaningful than hearing something in conversation. Then all of that is escalated by the feelings of invulnerability typing alone in your office or basement provides.
It's like a vicious cycle where every turn around the axis exacerbates the lack of subtlety which ramps up the emotional response, which triggers a more harsh reaction until you get a thread on oatmeal-raisin bagels ending up with comparisons to Hitler or Stalin.
It's really interesting from a sociological perspective.
THAT I totally agree with! You could be sitting at your keyboard chuckling and thinking you are making a funny comment, but someone will read it and get totally insulted because they don't know it's all in good fun and you weren't being serious. I've noticed that happen a few times with a couple of my friends just over email where a small word here or there can become the center of the topic instead of the original topic. It is quite interesting to me too, the true tone is not reflected in text. Isn't it like 75% of all communication is body language? So without the body language to help us pick up on the ques, we have only the written words of the text to fall back on.
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Ubernerd, it is a constant source of amazement to me how people react to my posts. I've been on the internet posting commentary for going on 20 years now and yet I am still amazed at how what I think is a clever, witty or insightful comment provokes the most vicious personal attacks...
And my worst problem is that my initial and most frequent reaction to such responses is "Oh yeah? Really? Well, it's ON buddy!"
Sigh... I try to be better every year. And I am making progress, but I still have much to learn about internet etiquette...
I get the same reactions and react the same way sometimes lol.
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Voice tone, body language, and context make up a large portion of our communication. The written word on the internet neglects that. People then tend to read into it with their own baggage and then the misunderstandings ensue. The act of a human sharing information with another human is amazing complex.
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I've been on the internet posting commentary for going on 20 years now and yet I am still amazed at how what I think is a clever, witty or insightful comment provokes the most vicious personal attacks...
Well, I've been on the Internet posting commentary for a few months now!
Without context, tone of voice and body language, subtleties like humour often get lost. It's why emoticons have appeared. : )
Also, in a real conversation you might inadvertently say something that a listener may take the wrong way, and they can instantly challenge you on it and you can clarify your meaning if they took it wrong. On t'internet your offending word stays on the screen, mocking the reader, festering into anger, without an immediate clarification from you. By the time the reader posts a response they are already angry and already believe you are a misogynistic racist with fascist/communist tendencies and an unhealthy fascination for sheep! Well, the more attractive sheep, anyway.
See! You're doing it now!
Ubernerd, it is a constant source of amazement to me how people react to my posts. I've been on the internet posting commentary for going on 20 years now and yet I am still amazed at how what I think is a clever, witty or insightful comment provokes the most vicious personal attacks...
And my worst problem is that my initial and most frequent reaction to such responses is "Oh yeah? Really? Well, it's ON buddy!"
Sigh... I try to be better every year. And I am making progress, but I still have much to learn about internet etiquette...
Smart adding of smileys and <sarcasm> ( or similar ) tags helps a lot with getting your intent over better. At least that has been my experience.
Basically, I was under the impression that I made it clear that was what I intended to do.
I was mistaken.
Games are different. In the LARPS I attended and arranged in the past you would have just been told the rules any using them could have played your thief.
There it was just: You steal something, you go directly to some GM, hand them over the physical thing your char stole and the GM would go to the owner, hand him over his physical property but ingame the stuff would have been yours.But LARPs as I know them always have a PVP component.
+ NPCs often mingle with the players (sometimes the even pretend to be players) and those can act as thieves, too.
Depending on what it was that was stolen the late owner would tell the gm to give it to the thief (coins or other stuff with no realworld worth) and for some the thief had the ingame ownership but would have to buy the physical prop himself (a weapon, crown, flag or other stuff that can get expencive outgame)
You just seem to have met the wrong guys for your char or have not been told proper way of handling it (the rules).
I am actually terrified of sheep.
Horrible things they are.
You can ward them off with mint sauce.