Star Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7
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Out of curiosity - since there aren't any women in the Top 32 or even the alternates - can we females (or maybe just THIS female, I suppose)find out where abouts the top 5 women, or so, would have been had the contest gone beyond 32?
Oh, heck, is that even POSSIBLE (with great difficulty, likely)?
After all, we now need to work even HARDER to smack you boys around some in our design efforts. ;)
I'd like to know that, too, but that would require un-anonymizing hundreds of entries, then checking the author of those items, and determining (based on author names) which authors are female. It's not an easy thing to do . :/
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I'd like to know that, too. I was surprised to say the least. Very strange.
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I wonder if for next year, there was a way to code this in:
When submitting an item, include a demographics section in which the entrant can note (if he or she chooses) certain info like gender and age.
The demographics would be kept anonymous and not revealed to judges (to avoid bias, just like names are kept anonymous), but could be tallied by a program and the totals revealed later.
It would be interesting thing I think to us and perhaps of use to Paizo to see who is most attracted to participating in Superstar, amongst discerning other trends (although some of that info probably wouldn't be too useful until it was done a few times). It'd have to be handled carefully to be sure people avoid making presumptions (sometimes "trends" appear without real, knowable cause and then people get paranoid) but it could be edifying.
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I'd be interested in this one, too, though I understand that it would be very difficult.
I, too, was surprised at the lack of female presence this year. I mean...I'd have thought at least ONE of us would crack the Top 32. Nothing against the boys who got in.
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I support the DQ proposal for demographic rpg research purposes. If possible it would be also interesting to include nationality and a checkbox for those who are not native English speakers. It would be interesting to know what percentage of submitters are taking their chances at writing in foreign language.
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Ross figured out a faster way to search for some of this data (thanks, Ross!).
This info is based on the gender the author recorded in the user profile (so it may be missing some women who didn't want to identify themselves as such in their profile).
Approximately 5% of the wondrous items were submitted by women.
Approximately 5% of the highest-voted items were submitted by women.
The two highest-voted items by female authors were in the 30–40 highest-voted items.
Update: Correction! One item by a female author was in the 20 highest-voted items.
Ross figured out a faster way to search for some of this data (thanks, Ross!).
This info is based on the gender the author recorded in the user profile (so it may be missing some women who didn't want to identify themselves as such in their profile).
Approximately 5% of the wondrous items were submitted by women.
Approximately 5% of the highest-voted items were submitted by women.
The two highest-voted items by female authors were in the 30–40 highest-voted items.
Update: Correction! One item by a female author was in the 20 highest-voted items.
Hmmm... So, two or three of us submitted items popular enough to be Top 32, but we're still missing some key component(s) that the expert judges want to see in Superstars ... I hope we can figure out what it is. Ah, well, there's always next year! In the meantime, congrats to the gents who managed both voter and judge appeal. :)
I'd love to know the rationale the judges had for rejecting the one that made the top twenty.
I'd love to know the rationale the judges had for rejecting the one that made the top twenty.
I'm sure it's the same rationale that we used in rejecting other top ranked items--we just didn't think it was good enough. Remember, we have no clue who the author is so we have no clue if the person is male or female. Thus, there is no reason we would apply any different criteria in evaluating that item from any other item. So I guess I'm not sure why you think it would be in any way interesting to find out what our rationale was for that item since it can't possibly explain the fact a top 20 female item wasn't selected.
There were 7 items in the top 20 by voter ranking that didnt make the top 32 (the entire top 8 items made it, though). 13 of the next 20 (31-40) didn't make it. 13 of the next 20 (41-60) didn't make it. 14 of the next 20 (61-80) didn't make it. 8 of the last 9 (81-89) didn't make it.
In other words:
Ranks: # that Made Top 32
1-20: 13 made it
21-40: 7 made it
41-60: 7 made it
61-80: 6 made it
81-89: 1 made it
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Next year I really would love to see more time given between r1 and r2 and a chance for a fan favorite that didn't make the cut get voted back in. I respect you judges but I also think the community deserves the right to at least 1 slot. After all, who buys your products?
From Clark's earlier post in this thread, it sounds like we voters already got at least the 8 top fan favorites in the running, GM. I think one time period of us voting on all the items is enough. :)
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Next year I really would love to see more time given between r1 and r2 and a chance for a fan favorite that didn't make the cut get voted back in. I respect you judges but I also think the community deserves the right to at least 1 slot. After all, who buys your products?
I'm a *very* strong supporter of honoring the rankings, but from what Clark just posted, it looks like they did. They pulled more from the top and less from the bottom. About as fair as can be. The voting alone isn't going to be perfect. Crowds are too susceptible to pandering for one thing, so there has to be some judge input. Given that necessity, I think it turned out well.
There are items in the top 32 I don't like at all, but the fact is that both the voters and the judges did. If anything, this indicates my personal taste is off from what the contest as a whole is looking for. That's for me to look in terms of my own future with the contest, not for the contest to look at. This year, with the crowd and the judges, you can't really argue too convincingly that they're all wrong.
There's a few items I really loved, but knew they weren't going to make it in. It's the way it goes.
Next year I really would love to see more time given between r1 and r2 and a chance for a fan favorite that didn't make the cut get voted back in. I respect you judges but I also think the community deserves the right to at least 1 slot. After all, who buys your products?
Thats why we vote. We choose the finalist, in fact we choose him (& her) 4 times before the title SuperStar is awarded.
If we had a woman judge would the results be different? I doubt it. The judges have picked women in the past. Anonymously & I dinnae think men & women write game design that much differently (no evidence to back that up). To continue Ross's numbers 1 out of 6 (15%?) of the SuperStars is (are?) woman. If we run more numbers I think the 5% will hold true of the Top 32.
You know, we looked at the items by rank and had that matched what we thought, we might have just gone with it.
But let me give you a few examples, had we just gone with voter ranking then the cobra-hood cloak (rank 37 and without doubt one of the three best items of the year) and the swarm slurper (rank 85!) would not have been in the top 32.
We tried our best to respect the ranking by vote but what became clear to us was that while the voter ranking did a good job generally categorizing items it didn't do a perfect job of item by item ranking, which makes sense because the voting process didn't actually let you rank them. Thus, subjective judge evaluation needed to be applied to the sorted piles to determine the final rank and I think that worked out very well.
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There are items in the top 32 I don't like at all, but the fact is that both the voters and the judges did. If anything, this indicates my personal taste is off from what the contest as a whole is looking for. That's for me to look in terms of my own future with the contest, not for the contest to look at. This year, with the crowd and the judges, you can't really argue too convincingly that they're all wrong.
Candidly, CWW, I think you hit on what might be the single most important thing a designer-to-be can pull from this experience. If you made a top 10 or top 32 list and that list is different than ours, instead of shaking your fist at the judges, try to find what it is that made the two (you versus judges) look at the items differently. Because my guess is if you could learn to determine what we liked and why that could be helpful in your future design decisions. I think that would be a very worthwhile question for you to try to answer for yourself: why am I looking at these differently from the judges? What can I learn about how the judges are looking at these items so I can keep that in mind next year.
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Precisely. That's why I'm taking the time to read over all of the comments in the Top 32 and try to comment on them myself. I know it will improve my chops, I want to understand what people saw in them (especially the ones that maybe didn't "wow" me as much), and frankly, the people who hit Top 32 earned their time in the spotlight. I hope to get a lot of feedback on my own item later, so the least I can do is take a few moments to give credit where credit is due.
And I'll need to bone up on what the judges liked and didn't like about this years crop so I can represent the female gaming community next year. :P
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Ross figured out a faster way to search for some of this data (thanks, Ross!).
This info is based on the gender the author recorded in the user profile (so it may be missing some women who didn't want to identify themselves as such in their profile).
Approximately 5% of the wondrous items were submitted by women.
Approximately 5% of the highest-voted items were submitted by women.
The two highest-voted items by female authors were in the 30–40 highest-voted items.
Update: Correction! One item by a female author was in the 20 highest-voted items.
I think it is interesting to note that this is pretty much as good as it gets as a distribution. If we are talking about single entries, you get too much noise to really predict much. Thus: women match men's wondrous item-designing skillZ XP for XP. Now if we could only get more women to see that.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Ross figured out a faster way to search for some of this data (thanks, Ross!).
This info is based on the gender the author recorded in the user profile (so it may be missing some women who didn't want to identify themselves as such in their profile).
Approximately 5% of the wondrous items were submitted by women.
Approximately 5% of the highest-voted items were submitted by women.
The two highest-voted items by female authors were in the 30–40 highest-voted items.
Update: Correction! One item by a female author was in the 20 highest-voted items.
EDIT: Ninjaed by by Sissyl
Ok I hope I am getting this right maths and I are not good friends...
If we extrapolate this out if 50% of the entries were to be submitted by women then 50% of the highest voted items would be submitted by women.
So:
a) Female and male gamers are equal in ability (something that only a moron would dispute)
b) If we can encourage more female writers the diversity and richness of our community can only grow.
I'd love to know the rationale the judges had for rejecting the one that made the top twenty.
I remember the item and (looking at our comments) there was a serious flaw in the item's design. It's one of those "I think you mean for it to do X, but you never actually come out and say that, and without that information, a reasonable person could interpret it as X, Y, or even Z" problems.
Which, IIRC, is often the problem with not-quite-superstar-enough items; a superstar designer recognizes and anticipates these sorts of questions and makes sure the item answers them. Often the judge's response is "author isn't quite ready yet."
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Next year I really would love to see more time given between r1 and r2 and a chance for a fan favorite that didn't make the cut get voted back in. I respect you judges but I also think the community deserves the right to at least 1 slot. After all, who buys your products?
I don't think any Superstar should be voted for "democratically" -- honestly, there's obviously some community disagreement (mine included) about what should have been in the top 32 versus who the judges picked (however well thought out those 32 items are, and they ARE :) ), but ultimately, the winners are selected based on criteria of what Paizo is looking for in a designer, not what all of us are looking for, so a pool of judges who understand those criteria intimately really need to be brought in.
THAT SAID, I think there could be a separate "people's choice" award that goes to the person who got the most votes but did not get into the Top 32. This person would not get to participate in Superstar, but they'd get some due recognition. They could probably get a message board title and maybe a little prize (a certificate or short .pdf or something).
They could probably get a message board title and maybe a little prize (a certificate or short .pdf or something).Or maybe a .pdf of a certificate?
That too. :)
Contributor
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Star Voter Season 6
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It seems like, given the data above, that when we can get more women submitting items (5% seems awfully low, even given this is a gender imbalanced hobby) then the chances of a top 32 being a woman will increase.
Basically, what the 8th Dwarf said.
I'd love to know the rationale the judges had for rejecting the one that made the top twenty.I remember the item and (looking at our comments) there was a serious flaw in the item's design. It's one of those "I think you mean for it to do X, but you never actually come out and say that, and without that information, a reasonable person could interpret it as X, Y, or even Z" problems.
Fair enough. I can see why voters who assume it does what they hope it does would vote it up while judges who are used to ambiguity causing multi-page arguments on the internet would be more circumspect. :)
THAT SAID, I think there could be a separate "people's choice" award that goes to the person who got the most votes but did not get into the Top 32. This person would not get to participate in Superstar, but they'd get some due recognition. They could probably get a message board title and maybe a little prize (a certificate or short .pdf or something).
The top vote getter IS in the top 32. We just didnt agree it was the best item. We thought it was middle of the pack of the top 32. In fact, the entire top 8 vote getters are all in the top 32. 9 of the top 10 vote getters are in the top 32.
Ouch. Poor No. 9.
THAT SAID, I think there could be a separate "people's choice" award that goes to the person who got the most votes but did not get into the Top 32. This person would not get to participate in Superstar, but they'd get some due recognition. They could probably get a message board title and maybe a little prize (a certificate or short .pdf or something).The top vote getter IS in the top 32. We just didnt agree it was the best item. We thought it was middle of the pack of the top 32. In fact, the entire top 8 vote getters are all in the top 32. 9 of the top 10 vote getters are in the top 32.
That's not what I mean.
I mean AFTER you pick the top 32, the highest top voted person LEFT, NOT in the top 32, gets "people's choice."
For (a hyperbolic) example, Bob got a million votes, the most achieved, and made it into top 32. Sally got 999,999 votes and did not make it into top 32. Sally gets the "people's choice" award. After all, getting that many votes is still an accomplishment worth acknowledging (not that anyone got that many votes but hopefully you get the idea).
Basically it'd be a consolation prize, but hopefully a nice one.
Of course top voted item period, that also made it into top 32, could ALSO be acknowledged, but as a separate thing (gold star contestant).
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I mean AFTER you pick the top 32, the highest top voted person LEFT, NOT in the top 32, gets "people's choice."....Basically it'd be a consolation prize, but hopefully a nice one.
I really don't see much value in a congeniality award for RPG Superstar. The alternate items already sort of have this distinction and they're the only ones that matter. Thus, there's no need to automatically throw the top-voted item from the public on top of that pile. The judges are in a much better position to discern which designers (and their submissions) are worthy of receiving that type of recognition. Meanwhile, there's nothing stopping the voting public from discussing items they enjoyed which missed the cut...just as many folks are already doing in another thread. There's just no need to throw on an additional accolade for top vote-getter in the public voting round. I don't think that's really a prize anyone should necessarily hang their hat on. You've still got to clear the actual judges to get official recognition in RPG Superstar. And that's really how it should be.
Of course top voted item period, that also made it into top 32, could ALSO be acknowledged, but as a separate thing (gold star contestant).
I'd frown on this suggestion, as well. Mainly, because it's still subjective. Out of all the voters who cast votes for RPG Superstar, it's possible that many never saw several (or even a majority) of the items that made Top 32. That means any item that did garner the majority of votes from the voting public isn't necessarily at the top of the pile. If everyone had cast an identical number of votes, then it might be more telling and comparable. But, without that, I think it's better to just let the public indicate their Top 5 like we usually see every year and the Top 32 competitors who find their items cited there will take additional confidence from it.
But, as always, that's just my two cents,
--Neil
I mean AFTER you pick the top 32, the highest top voted person LEFT, NOT in the top 32, gets "people's choice."....Basically it'd be a consolation prize, but hopefully a nice one.I really don't see much value in a congeniality award for RPG Superstar.
Well, I do have to respectfully disagree with characterizing such a thing as a valueless congeniality award.
After half a million votes, coming out on top certainly means something.
The contestant might have a long way to go to impress judges as a professional, but making something so many people like is not to be dismissed. It is, in fact, an accomplishment of note.
I confess I have a fundamentally different thought process about this topic, though. To me the right choice is to encourage as many people as possible in as many ways as possible. If there's a lot people who produce work that the public likes that the judges feel aren't ready (and that seems to be the case), then they should still be encouraged for that.
I understand the idea that a true professional doesn't need that kind of encouragement to improve. I understand it, but I don't agree with it. There are all kinds of people, some of who will power through disappointment, and some of who can flower with that extra push.
Having said all that, I respect that it's the contest's decision to make. But I don't think it's right to say the option is valueless.
...I don't think it's right to say the option is valueless.
Keep in mind I never said such an option is valueless. I just said it doesn't have much value. I can see where you're approaching it from, though. And I don't entirely disagree with you.
The statistical concern is worth noting and a fair point, although as Clouds notes, with a half a million votes, that is still significant.
But I make the suggestions I do because there is a lot of feedback circling around in this thread and others about wanting to know who got high votes, and/or acknowledge the most up-voted items in some way. I reckon in part it's because the voters enjoyed participating in the voting and want to see some sort of more direct payoff. Although I don't think that's the primary reason per se. It was also an attempt at a compromise for other requests about how to acknowledge massively up-voted items.
If it were doable, I don't think a "people's choice" would take any wind out of the sails of the Top 32. They're the ones who won, they are the ones who get to advance to the next round. That's still bigger than anything. And I can't imagine the folks who won Top 32 feeling bitter or undercut because someone else gets a little acknowledgement for a job well done, especially when that's ALL they get, as opposed to what the Top 32 get.
Clouds also has an excellent point about encouraging people to enter, which is always good. I'd note that it may also encourage people to vote more as well, since they'll feel like they have more of a direct impact.
I honestly have no major dog in this race, mind. I see a lot of differing thoughts about how people want to see votes handled, counted, and acknowledged and such and my mediator-trained mind tries to see compromises.
That's my own pair of pennies, there.
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I think it is interesting to note that this is pretty much as good as it gets as a distribution. If we are talking about single entries, you get too much noise to really predict much. Thus: women match men's wondrous item-designing skillZ XP for XP. Now if we could only get more women to see that.
I went back and checked the past 5 years of the contest, and counted female contestants. Discounting gender-neutral names like Chris or Alex that I wasn't going to go and research too thoroughly, I count five total women to make it into the Top 32 over 6 years, including one who made it to the to the Top 16 and one winner (Christine Schneider, in the contest's first year). This puts the percentage of women to men in the contest at 2.6%, which is lower than the 5% we have submitting this year, showing an increase in submissions from women this year over previous years. Looking at each level beyond that, the rate of women making the Top 16 or the Top 8 is just over 2% for each, and the rate of women making the Top 4 is slightly more than 4%. With one champion of six being a woman, the rate there is almost 17%. I am fairly certain that the contest hasn't, over its 6-year lifespan, had 17% female participation.
I think the key here is to get more women to submit items. I know that there's a culture of sexism in gaming that can often discourage women from attempting to be taken seriously by their male peers, but in a contest with blind assessment of talent in the early rounds, this is the perfect chance for women to really shine without fear of being discounted for their gender. I think we at Paizo could do a better job of reaching out to women (on the whole, but specifically regarding RPG Superstar) and we'll discuss ways of doing that better in future years.
I think the key here is to get more women to submit items. I know that there's a culture of sexism in gaming that can often discourage women from attempting to be taken seriously by their male peers, but in a contest with blind assessment of talent in the early rounds, this is the perfect chance for women to really shine without fear of being discounted for their gender. I think we at Paizo could do a better job of reaching out to women (on the whole, but specifically regarding RPG Superstar) and we'll discuss ways of doing that better in future years.
One additional great thing about the voting is that I know of some women who were too shy to enter because they thought their ideas wouldn't be good enough (despite any argument to the contrary) but were convinced during the voting process by the moxie of some of the people who submitted really bad items that they should throw their hat into the ring too.
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I think it is interesting to note that this is pretty much as good as it gets as a distribution. If we are talking about single entries, you get too much noise to really predict much. Thus: women match men's wondrous item-designing skillZ XP for XP. Now if we could only get more women to see that.I went back and checked the past 5 years of the contest, and counted female contestants. Discounting gender-neutral names like Chris or Alex that I wasn't going to go and research too thoroughly, I count five total women to make it into the Top 32 over 6 years, including one who made it to the to the Top 16 and one winner (Christine Schneider, in the contest's first year). This puts the percentage of women to men in the contest at 2.6%, which is lower than the 5% we have submitting this year, showing an increase in submissions from women this year over previous years. Looking at each level beyond that, the rate of women making the Top 16 or the Top 8 is just over 2% for each, and the rate of women making the Top 4 is slightly more than 4%. With one champion of six being a woman, the rate there is almost 17%. I am fairly certain that the contest hasn't, over its 6-year lifespan, had 17% female participation.
I think the key here is to get more women to submit items. I know that there's a culture of sexism in gaming that can often discourage women from attempting to be taken seriously by their male peers, but in a contest with blind assessment of talent in the early rounds, this is the perfect chance for women to really shine without fear of being discounted for their gender. I think we at Paizo could do a better job of reaching out to women (on the whole, but specifically regarding RPG Superstar) and we'll discuss ways of doing that better in future years.
I agree with Mark.
One thing we can look at is how female representation and voices have been successful in sister fields, like in console and computer gaming, comics, and fantasy and sci-fi television, and where they have not.
The impression I get is that there are two ways to approach this: top-down (i.e., hiring female or gender issues friendly developers and writers - Paizo is doing this) and grassroots (i.e., developing a feminist culture that has a secure position within the gaming culture). The grassroots requires blogging, and conversations, and panels - I mean - do we have a "Being a Female Gamer" panel at PaizoCon or GenCon - I'm not sure...
At this point we're faced, I think, with a number of issues: 1) gaming culture is masculine (and often straight and white) in orientation. I think we can take that 5% to be "invested female PF gamers" but I'm hopeful the actual percentage of female gamers is closer to 20-33% of the casual gaming population. This isn't an inherent aspect of gaming - as anyone who's played a White Wolf larp (or larping in general) can tell you.
2) Paizo is unusual in that it has a female CEO. I'm trying to think of another example (Margaret Weis, obviously, but are they still in business?). In the sciences, math, and engineering (fields, which in their mechanical orientation are similar to game design) the main way of circumventing gender bias is by women (and men) seeking out and mentoring female students. It's difficult to pursue this route unless game writers make this a deliberate policy, and there's sufficient mentors to go around. In other words, saying, "I think you have something to contribute, and let's ignore supposed nerd culture." I mean, look at this.
This is just brainstorming. I'm a single dad of a girl. She wants to be a gamer and a writer. I'm emotionally invested in her success doing so.
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THAT SAID, I think there could be a separate "people's choice" award that goes to the person who got the most votes but did not get into the Top 32.
... and this year, that would be one of the two other "entangle boots" items in the top 89. We had three of them in the running, but we liked thorn creeper sandals the best out of those three.
Also, I think an award for "you're in the top set of votes, but the judges didn't select you" is a completely arbitrary accomplishment, as arbitrary as "you were #12 in the vote ranking, congrats!" The 8 highest-voted items are in the Top 32. The people have spoken. #9 doesn't need a special award for being #9-but-not-in-the-Top-32, any more than if the Top 32 were #1–#32 (would #33 really deserve a special mention in that case?).
I mean AFTER you pick the top 32, the highest top voted person LEFT, NOT in the top 32, gets "people's choice."
Basically it'd be a consolation prize, but hopefully a nice one.
Of course top voted item period, that also made it into top 32, could ALSO be acknowledged, but as a separate thing (gold star contestant).
DQ you raise some interesting points. While I guess I generally agree with Neil and Sean's comments, I do think it gives us something to think about. I'm not at liberty to discuss the things going on in the judges chambers, but I think I can generally say that we are all thinking about how this year worked and what improvements could be made. I think we all felt this year went amazingly well. But we are all gamers and gamers do so love to tinker and improve things, so it is only natural we would think about way to improve things. So keep raising these ideas because we see them and we will likely discuss them.
RPG Superstar 2015
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Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
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You know, we looked at the items by rank and had that matched what we thought, we might have just gone with it.
But let me give you a few examples, had we just gone with voter ranking then the cobra-hood cloak (rank 37 and without doubt one of the three best items of the year) and the swarm slurper (rank 85!) would not have been in the top 32.
Except that the cobra-hood cloak was very similar to the item discussed in a panel discussion as a corset. I recall a lot of gripping last year about items that were very similar in nature to previously published things and yet this one gets kudos. That sends a bit of a mixed message in my mind.
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I definitely don't think there's any sort of bias at work and thanks for doing the breakdown, Mark! It was really cool to see.
Compartmentalizing this for easier reading:
I think Paizo does a better job really taking into account the female gaming community without pandering than most other companies out there. If you're a female looking for inspiration, look no further. Female CEO, and the first winner was also female.
The time voting obviously wasn't wasted and if you're serious about this, use the tools that you have avalible to improve. If you're sad that a personal favorite didn't get chosen, try to find it in the criique thread. Share why you liked it and try to see if you can find some reasons why said item didn't make the cut. That's the biggest way you can help an aspiring designer that you liked. And you'll learn in the process as well.
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RPG Superstar 2015
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Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
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I agree with Mark.One thing we can look at is how female representation and voices have been successful in sister fields, like in console and computer gaming, comics, and fantasy and...
I wear glasses to see, watch Star Trek: TNG and play Skyrim until my family almost dies of starvation. I think the thing that the community lacks is an overall sense of inclusion for the female population. This community is in general kind and fun, yet there are posts about the Pathfinder merchandising not being female friendly and resulting near misogynistic responses.
I speak for myself now, but hope that this resonates with what my sister gamers feel. This is me starting a dialogue, that I hope will help us as a whole to find some solution.
Being a female gamer is really hard. The "normal" community looks down on us because we would prefer to read books, role dice and be creative, the gamer community doesn't know what to do with our estrogen, lipstick and desire to look beyond hack and slash for entertainment. These are generalizations, to be certain, yet they represent what we face time and again.
Female gamers do not want to be treated differently, we want to be included. That means ask us what we want and act accordingly. Be open to our feedback. Be respectfully of who we are as individuals. These things apply to all players. As the minority though, we are often marginalized by those who think they know what we want, think they know more than we do or think they need to protect us.
Unlike male gamers, we know that we truly face ridicule. I am actually pretty shy and reclusive, mostly because I don't like much of the world. However, I am also very outspoken and confident because I know that if I don't say something, I will be once again marginalized and degraded for my gender. Which opens me up for further ridicule. It's a pretty vicious cycle.
I started my college career in a highly male dominated field which I left because professors said things like "women can't visualize three dimensionally, so you'll have to figure out a way to learn this". I finally changed fields because it hurt to be treated like an inferior pet and was detrimental to my well being.
I love gaming because it allows me to explore things that I enjoy. I would love to see gamer women treated like gamers who happen to be women, rather than "omg a girl! and she's gaming!". We aren't a nearly extinct species, we are a newly established population trying to grow, we need nurturing and respect, but please don't coddle us or drool over us. That kind of behavior is demeaning and unbecoming.
As I said before, I would love to see Paizo and other "nerd" and "geek" communities open themselves up to the possibility that there is more that could be done for the minority female population to help it grow in numbers and allow us to give more back to the community of which we choose to be a part.
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I agree with Mark.Unlike male gamers, we know that we truly face ridicule. I am actually pretty shy and reclusive, mostly because I don't like much of the world.
I am sorry but I disagree here - I had to deal with violence on a daily basis. There wasn't a day where I wasn't punched or tripped or had my school-bag thrown on the roof, pushed into a garbage bin or into the trough, because I was a gamer and a geek.
I didn't fit in I was bad at Rugby, I couldn't surf or play cricket.
When the 60 minutes episode on D&D thing happened, my life got more difficult.
The worst teasing the hardest stuff to deal with was that done by female students.
It was repeatedly pointed out to me that I was less than male and I would never be attractive to anybody....
I proved them wrong and have a wonderful wife and daughters... It took me a very long time to trust people .
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I think that the best thing gamer girls can do to increase our visibility in the hobby - is to participate more visibly in the hobby.
Paizo runs a 'blind' contest in RPG Superstar - you could be bright purple and have a third eye in the middle of your forehead and still win - if your entry is good and has mojo. There couldn't be a safer environment for cautious gamers of any gender to participate in. Your entry will NEVER be linked to you - unless you win or you choose to claim it.
5% seems so low to me - there has to be a much larger number of females with Paizo.com accounts, even if we are outnumbered by the boys.
Congrats to all of the ladies who entered - getting over the initial fear and actually participating is the biggest hurdle (again, regardless of gender). After that, it is just refinement of skills and understanding of the challenges.
I look forward to seeing more winners from the population female gamers next year...hopefully including my own. :)
In the meantime, congratulations to everyone who made it to this round this year.
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I think the key here is to get more women to submit items. I know that there's a culture of sexism in gaming that can often discourage women from attempting to be taken seriously by their male peers, but in a contest with blind assessment of talent in the early rounds, this is the perfect chance for women to really shine without fear of being discounted for their gender.I think we at Paizo could do a better job of reaching out to women (on the whole, but specifically regarding RPG Superstar) and we'll discuss ways of doing that better in future years.
I think if you want to do this, it's important also not to necessarily assume that all women aren't submitting because they feel afraid to because of worrying about being taken seriously. Some might. I know in the thread that Sean started some female posters said they had that hesitation. I don't (I had hesitations, but not that one). Others don't. And I personally feel patronized in fact when people assume I might not participate in something because I might "feel intimidated" because I am a woman, as well meaning as the person making that assumption might be (I am not saying you are making that assumption, I am talking about a general situation). Others on the other hand do need some kind of reassurance this is a fair game.
But there's other things to take into consideration. Maybe a lot of female gamers aren't into item design. (I'm not, but I like other aspects of game design, so I decided to take a crack at it. I'm fairly certain I did very poorly, although I am glad I tried. Although this probably has nothing to do with my anatomy anyway.) Maybe a lot of female gamers aren't into any game design because of other, different preferences. In fact, I am one of few women gamers I know personally who's really into Pathfinder. Most women gamers I know (and I know a lot, although it's still a small, anecdotal sample I realize) prefer more rules-lite, story based games, and prefer to focus on the story telling and character design than certain mechanical aspects of RPGs. Is this typical to women or just women I know? Who knows?
The best way to find out? Ask. Don't assume the one overriding issue you think it is is the real problem (maybe it is, but don't assume). Run a formal survey. Talk to people at cons.
With regards to Superstar, there's also stuff like marketing and lack thereof. Superstar is big on these boards, but I don't think many know about it in the broader gaming community, not even the Pathfinder playing community. When I mentioned entering the contest this year, both gaming groups I play with had no clue what I was talking about, with the only exception being another player who also frequents these boards. Not everyone who plays Pathfinder goes to these message boards or even knows they exist. And if we do want to talk about intimidation issues, some women have told me they don't want to go to geek message boards because of harassment issues (this board is welcoming usually but it's hard to take that risk if you've had bad past experience). As you're much more likely to enter this contest if you're a member of this community, if you don't go to the community, you probably won't enter the contest... So in short, the contest needs to be plugged more often, more frequently, by other means, to make sure more people, including women, hear about it.
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So, I'm pleasantly surprised that we had as many female entrants as we did -- I thought we might see a drop in women's participation this year. As I've said before, I don't want to get into this in detail right now because I don't want to derail conversation about the contest itself into a broader discussion about women in gaming, but --
The past year has been rough.
A lot of pretty dramatic stuff has happened to visible women in gaming, from the Anita Sarkeesian drama to the threats and hostility against women in the industry who had the temerity to be A Woman Who Speaks As An Authority On Gaming (see, for example, Bioware's Jennifer Hepler), and general backlash, such as the Fake Geek Girl absurdity. Hell, Kim Swift talked about being afraid to speak up, and when you are responsible for Portal, no one in the industry should be questioning your right to speak. I hope -- I hope so much that it's exhausting, at times -- that the backlash is actually a sign that at least these things are being talked about openly now, and that we will continue to move forward.
But regardless, after the past year (and after spending 6 months in a PR position for a game where I had it driven home daily that a lot of male gamers -- and male coworkers in the game industry -- are mightily offended by the idea of female authority, even when you tack every soft phrasing and disclaimer you can think of onto anything you say and completely remove any imperative verb forms from your personal lexicon), I turned down some interview requests, I shucked (or locked to friends only) a lot of my online presence, and I pulled out of talks about being on some panels for this year. I just didn't have the energy any more.
And I know plenty of other women in the industry who are mostly keeping their heads down, because it feels like drawing attention to yourself is a risk right now.
Now, most of this is the videogame industry, not the pen and paper or board game industries, and certainly not here at Paizo (I regularly brag to my female friends still in the war zones about the comfort and confidence and safety of working for a company with a female CEO -- for the first time in several years, I get up and go to work without feeling like I'm headed into hostile territory). A lot of it happened in the echo chamber of industry people and hasn't really leaked outside of it, but it is something that's going on in the conversation about women and games, and I wouldn't have been surprised if it had deterred some female potential applicants from entering this year, because winning does result in publicity, and publicity is not always a comfortable thing for women in the industry right now.
I'm glad it didn't (or at least, didn't prevent the percentage of female applicants from continuing to rise), and if you're a woman and entered the contest, even if you didn't make it into the top 100, I am so proud of you I could hug you. Forward! :-)
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I think we can all agree that there are a lot of different experiences, and they're uniquely different and have a unique perspective to share with other gamers, male or female. I would simply caution against discounting an opinion simply because it doesn't match up with YOUR experience. Just because your experience was different does not make this an agree/disagree paradigm -- in other words, just because someone else's experience was different does not make it less valid than yours. Keep that mind, please.
That said, I do think women gamers have an inherently different perspective and experience, simply because they're a minority in a demographic dominated by white, heterosexual males. Anyone who doesn't fit into that demographic is going to have a wildly different experience from most others in gaming. Even most who do fit into that demographic will have a different experience and perspective. Honestly, I think it's wise to listen to everyone and learn from everyone. That's how we make this a more inclusive hobby, and that's ultimately how we make the game more fun. To me, that is the ultimate, utmost goal -- everyone playing this game should learn from others toward the end of having FUN.
As far as RPG Superstar ...
For the record, I was barely eligible to enter this year, and I did. I had a short amount of time, it was my first year entering, and though I probably got a decent number of votes, in the end, I don't think my item was quite Superstar enough to make it. That's OK, though -- I still have a good freelance gig going with Paizo and Kobold Press, and I know I'll just keep getting better. In fact, I have a bizarre illness right now (and I NEVER get sick ... so please forgive typos!) and deadline that probably mean it's for the best that I didn't make Top 32. Anyway, I'm going to keep working in gaming. That was never in question. I'm going to keep working in gaming and I'm going to keep improving, keep going to conventions, and (of course!) keep playing. Thanks to everyone for indulging me!
Edit: Ninja'd! Sorry if I repeated what the others above me said, but I agree with them!
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I'm glad it didn't (or at least, didn't prevent the percentage of female applicants from continuing to rise), and if you're a woman and entered the contest, even if you didn't make it into the top 100, I am so proud of you I could hug you. Forward! :-)
LOVE this post! Thank you for writing it, Jessica! (Even though my drug-addled self took forever in typing mine! Ha! :D)
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A lot of pretty dramatic stuff has happened to visible women in gaming, from the Anita Sarkeesian drama to the threats and hostility against women in the industry who had the temerity to be A Woman Who Speaks As An Authority On Gaming (see, for example, Bioware's Jennifer Hepler), and general backlash, such as the Fake Geek Girl absurdity. Hell, Kim Swift talked about being afraid to speak up, and when you are responsible for Portal, no one in the industry should be questioning your right to speak. I hope -- I hope so much that it's exhausting, at times -- that the backlash is actually a sign that at least these things are being talked about openly now, and that we will continue to move forward.
I think that this hits the nail right on the head. Although I would not consider myself a fan of Sarkeesian or Hepler (and in fact, have my reservations about statements that both have made), I've found myself disgusted by the utter abandonment of communicative criticism in gaming discourse in favor of gendered attacks and ad hominems, often to an overwhelming degree that is patently absurd.
I commend Paizo for making an effort to provide a warm and welcoming space for gamers of all stripes, especially as antipathy towards other gamers becomes the norm in the public discourse on gaming. Congratulations to all the women gamers who participated and continue to participate in this contest!