I'm joining a Serpent Skull campaign that is supposedly extremely challenging. Characters die a lot and there are some teamwork issues.
This seems like a very fun and challenging campaign, but I'm struggling at coming up with good, interesting and versatile builds that would survive very long and be helpful to the party.
So I would appreciate some ideas.
Here are the parameters:
- Core Rule Book and APG only.
- 10 Point Buy
- Level 4
- No Summoners and Inquisitors
- I'm partial to fighting characters as opposed to spell casters. But I'm open to both.
Wizard
Summoner Sorcerer/Oracle
Cleric
Saurian Shaman (!)
I'd probably pick one of those - saurian shaman might be the best option there - focused on summoning.
10 point buy in is BRUTAL for non-casters. Your best bet is either a gunslinger, an Orc if you want to be a str based, a skill monkey rogue, or a full caster of some kind.
Gunslinger. 16 dex, 14 wis, 13 con 7 int, 7 cha. Play human to make up for the lack of skill points. Put the +2 into dex, build from there. This build works much better if you have access to advanced firearms. I recommend using the revolver with the pistolero archetype.
Orc Barbarian: Take a 14 dex, 14 con, a 8 cha, and a 12 wis before modifiers. You will end up with 14/14/14 physical and 8/10/6 mental after racial modifiers. Rage will give you 18/14/18 which is respectable stats for a melee fighter. Take medium armor for maximum AC.
Skill monkey rogue: Human, 16 dex, 10s in the rest. +2 to dex from race. Grab toughness at level 1 with the human feat, and use your favored class for skill points, giving you 10 skill points a level. Use weapon finesse along with the dagger master archetype for decent combat capabilities.
Full Caster: Drop unneeded stats until you can afford a 17-18 mental stat before racial modifier. Or, for flavor, play Orc and take the scarred witch doctor archetype with a 7 str, 12 dex, 16 con, and 12 wis. This makes your beefier than most spell casters, but you sacrifice a couple extra spells per day and your average DCs are lower.
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Joanna, I don't really feel like having several dump stats is playing within the spirit of a 10 point buy.
A human fighter with a 10 point buy:
Str 16, Dex 12, Con 13, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8
Feats Weapon Focus (longsword), Toughness
~~~~
A Half-Elf druid with a 10 point buy:
Str 8, Dex 12, Con 13, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 10
Feats Skill Focus: Handle Animal, Spell Focus (Conjuration)
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A half-orc cleric of Gorum with a 10 point buy:
Str 15, Dex 10, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 8
Feats Toughness
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An elf wizard with a 10 point buy:
Str 8, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 10
Feats Scribe Scroll, Toughness
Of course these aren't going to be as powerful as 15 point buy or 20 point buy characters, but that's OKAY. If the GM wants 10 points, you're not going to make any friends by dumping two stats to 7 to "make it work".
Also, Toughness is a pretty good investment for most of these characters, as will be Improved Initiative.
Also Gunslinger isn't available. Core & APG only.
Apologies, I missed that.
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Human Witch will work well.
Also, I am not getting the "spirit of 10 point buy" response on dump stats.
I think that is a highly presumptuous thing to say. There is no need to weaken PCs that are already weakened by a low point buy.
Also, some concepts have dump stats to have the numbers meet the concept.
You say there are teamwork issues, what exactly does that mean? Because when I heard teamwork, I'd thought about teamwork feats. For example PRecise Strike for additional 1d6 damage isn't too shabby for low-level melee characters.
Also, what races are in? Only the core races plus the additional traits from the APG?
Here is a fighter for all ranges: Martial Artist 2/Ranger 2.
Str: 16 (+2 from human)
Dex: 14 (+1 from level 4)
Con: 12
Int: 9
Wis: 13
Cha: 8
Close ranged is unarmed strike, melee weapon is a Guisarme for reach/trip (which will be maxed thanks to the monk levels and you can get imp trip and still dump your Int), and a bow for long range.
You will get tons of skills, par excellent combat versatility, and you can save money on your armor slot.
Halfling Zen archer monk.
WIS, DEX, CON, STR, INT, CHA.
Do at least 10 STR to avoid a dmg malus.
At level 3 you get weapon focus and can attack with WIS.
Point blank and Precise Shot are mandatory.
Toughness and Dodge are your friends too.
It might not be a "power" build, but I can recommend a character that will be welcome at any table. I'm currently playing it in a 3 person party going through Jade Regent, and it is amazingly fun!
Cleric of Desna
Travel and Luck domains
Feats:
Extra channel
Spell focus conjuration
Augment summons
I recommend a 12 or 13 Cha, at least 15 wis, a 12 dex, and everything else 10 or 12. Get a buckler, and try to keep your AC decent. Once you hit level 5, summon augmented celestial wolverines, and channel to keep them (and everyone else) alive. Use the "touch of luck" domain ability on folks who get multiple attacks, and use your fast movement to maximum tactical advantage.
Just a super fun character to play. Paizo really nailed every part of the cleric class.
. . .there are some teamwork issues.
. . .builds that would survive very long and be helpful to the party.
What characters are currently in the party?
Ok, so this might fall under the disallowed ideas, but if you want a Survivor who is as SAD as possible:
Half-Orc Scarred Witch Doctor. Dump anything you like other than Con to get it maxed, and use your Con to cast and fight (with Prehensile Hair).
I thought that the witch doctor required full orc to take. Did this get changed?
@notabot: Half-Orcs count as Orcs.
On-Topic: Wizard.
I still gotta know:
Why is the Inquisitor banned?
It was the cause of too many Monty Python references, perhaps?
I was thinking more of the Eddie Izard Skit.
Church Of England & The Spanish Inquisition.
the summoner was probably banned by the GM because a low point buy really doesn't hurt them (since it won't weaken the eidolon at all), and he/she was afraid it would far outshine the other characters. coincidentally, that same reason makes a druid a good option... your stats might be low but your animal companion would be every bit as good as normal.
str 10 dex 12 con 13 int 8 wis 18 (15+race+4th) cha 10
skills: handle animal, know[nature], perception, survival (if using traits, make stealth a class skill and take it instead of knowledge)
feats: toughness, spell focus[conjuration], augment summoning
with favored class bonus going to HP, you'll have decent health (around 35hp), and you can wear hide armor. in combat, buff your animal companion and let it fight- then use your spells for control and/or summoning more combatants. use wild shape primarily for scouting/escape, not for wading into combat.
if you want to play a melee guy, i like the idea of the barbarian.
str 14 dex 14 (13+4th) con 14 (12+race) int 10 wis 12 cha 8
skills: acrobatics, craft[weapons], perception, survival
feats: toughness, raging vitality, power attack
rage powers: energy resistance[fire], renewed vigor
raging you'll have 18 str and 20 con... with favored class bonus in HP, you'd have like 61 hp when raging (assuming PFS 7/d12), with DR 2/- and fire resistance 2 (and the ability to self-heal 1d8+5hp 1/day); and, with power attack, your +1 falchion (assuming you could afford one, which you could if you get standard WBL) would be +7 to hit, 2d4+13 damage, and 18-20/x2 crit. a +1 breastplate would give you AC 19, 17 while raging.
hope something in there is helpful!
How much starting gold? Are you using traits? How important are skills going to be?
My suggestion:
Human Fighter (Weapon Master Archetype)
Str 18 (15 + 2 racial +1 level) Dex 13 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 8
Feats: Exotic Weapon: Falcata, Weapon Focus: Falcata, Shield Focus, Dodge, Power Attack, Weapon Spec: Falcata
With Full Plate plus heavy shield, You'll have an AC of 24 before magic items, and with a masterwork falcata you will have +11 to hit, 1d8+7 damage (+9/1d8+11 with power attack) with a 19-20 x3 crit range.
Dilvias has an excellent build. One I might gank in fact.
Though I would recommend STR being reduced in favor of increasing CON.
If you go for an 18-20 critical range weapon you can go for a Critical focused build and end up with a bit more damage. I mean improved critical and it becomes what 15-20? But the Falcata is nice.
My Additional Recommendation:
Human(Dual Talent) Ranger:
STR: 16(15+1 Level) DEX: 13 CON: 12 INT: 10 WIS: 12(10+2 Race) CHA: 8
Combat Style: Weapon & Shield
Feats: L1: Imp. Shield Bash CS1: Two-Weapon Fighting L3: EWP(Falcata)
You get to cast 1 1st Level Spell. Most likely Lead Blades.
If you want to go melee, I'd suggest:
Human Paladin:
Str: 16 (including racial+level) Dex: 12, Con: 12, Int: 8, Wis: 10, Cha: 14
Feats: Toughness, Dodge and then either Shield Focus, Power Attack or Weapon Focus.
Get some heavy armor and shield. You'll have a good AC, great saves, and can swift action Lay on Hands yourself for 2d6 4 times a day. Prepare Hero's Defiance in your spell slot, and you can throw a 3d6 heal on yourself as you're falling unconscious to try to save yourself. Damage will be a little bit lower than going with a fighter, but Smite will make up for some of then when needed.
Dilvias has an excellent build. One I might gank in fact.
Though I would recommend STR being reduced in favor of increasing CON.
If you go for an 18-20 critical range weapon you can go for a Critical focused build and end up with a bit more damage. I mean improved critical and it becomes what 15-20? But the Falcata is nice.
My Additional Recommendation:
Human(Dual Talent) Ranger:
STR: 16(15+1 Level) DEX: 13 CON: 14(12+2 Race) INT: 10 WIS: 12(10+2 Race) CHA: 8Combat Style: Weapon & Shield
Feats: L1: Imp. Shield Bash CS1: Two-Weapon Fighting L3: EWP(Falcata)
You get to cast 1 1st Level Spell. Most likely Lead Blades.
Your stats won't work there. Core and APG only, so dual talent is out.
for shear survivability, its tough to beat a paladin...
i like Doggan's build but i'd be tempted to switch the racial bonus to Cha- lose +1 hit/dmg but gain +1 to all saves, 1 extra LoH/day, and a slightly better smite. most of the BBEG should actually be evil, so smite should be pretty useful. if just surviving is a real concern i'd even be tempted to pick up the extra LoH feat for another 2 free 2d6 heals.
that would give you about 40hp with 7x2d6 LoH/day, with a 22 AC (not counting magic items) in full-plate with a light shield (which is necessary for free action healing).
I forgot that. I keep thinking Dual Talent was in the APG. Sorry bout that.
I will edit it ASAP.
I forgot that. I keep thinking Dual Talent was in the APG. Sorry bout that.
I will edit it ASAP.
Those stats are mostly doable ( 1 less dex) with a human, half elf, or half orc
Str 3 points = 13 +2 race +1 level = 16
Dex 2 points = 12
Con 5 points = 14
Int 0 points = 10
Wis 2 points = 12
Cha-2 points = 08
Those stats are mostly doable ( 1 less dex) with a human, half elf, or half orcStr 3 points = 13 +2 race +1 level = 16
Dex 2 points = 12
Con 5 points = 14
Int 0 points = 10
Wis 2 points = 12
Cha-2 points = 08
I figured they might be, but I don't have easy access to a Stat Generator right now.
Wait... How did a single decrease in DEX increase like that?
Those stats are mostly doable ( 1 less dex) with a human, half elf, or half orcStr 3 points = 13 +2 race +1 level = 16
Dex 2 points = 12
Con 5 points = 14
Int 0 points = 10
Wis 2 points = 12
Cha-2 points = 08I figured they might be, but I don't have easy access to a Stat Generator right now.
Wait... How did a single decrease in DEX increase like that?
You gain 4 points by dropping str to 13 and using the race bonus on it.
You gain 4 points by dropping str to 13 and using the race bonus on it.
Those stats are mostly doable ( 1 less dex) with a human, half elf, or half orcStr 3 points = 13 +2 race +1 level = 16
Dex 2 points = 12
Con 5 points = 14
Int 0 points = 10
Wis 2 points = 12
Cha-2 points = 08I figured they might be, but I don't have easy access to a Stat Generator right now.
Wait... How did a single decrease in DEX increase like that?
Ok now I see it... I need more practice with PBS Stats...
My attempt with some cheese and severe stat dumps
7 Str 15 +1 race +2 Human 18
-4 Dex 07
5 Con 14
-4 Int 07
-4 Wis 07
10 Cha 16
HP 13 + 2d10+6 +1d8+2 (Favored Paladin Hp) = 36
Ac 20 (Full plate +1 Dex/Cha)
Fort 3 +2 +3 = 8
Ref 1 -2 +3 = 2
Wil 5 -2 +3 =6
Cmb 7
Cmd 20
Lvl 1 Power Attack, Furious Focus
Lvl 3 Extra LoH
Falchion +7(Bab 3 Str 4) 2d4+9 damage (Str 6 PA 3)
Oracle of Nature
Curse : Tounges (Celestial)
Revelation Nature's Whispers (Use Cha for Dex on AC and CMD)
Spells
Lvl 0 Detect Magic, Mending, Light, Create Water
Lvl 1 Cure Light Wounds, Endure elements (24 hours deal :D), Protection From Evil (Useful even at cl1 and lvl 20)
Paladin
LoH 6/day 1d6
My attempt with some cheese and severe stat dumps
** Gorden Zola **
I hate you for the Name...
:P
Why It is almost as bad as Frish Brie.
I was thinking more of the Eddie Izard Skit.
Church Of England & The Spanish Inquisition.
But Monty Python has...
NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!!
"NOBODY EXPECTS THE IOMEDAEN INQUISITION!"
Ac 20 (Full plate +1 Dex/Cha)
unlike Lore's Sidestep Secret (which would add to your Reflex save as well), Nature's Whispers says nothing in the text about being limited by the armor's max dex... that might be RAI, i don't know (and of course, as always this is up to the GM) but i believe, RAW, that should be "AC 22 (full plate +3 Cha)"
Ac 20 (Full plate +1 Dex/Cha)unlike Lore's Sidestep Secret (which would add to your Reflex save as well), Nature's Whispers says nothing in the text about being limited by the armor's max dex... that might be RAI, i don't know (and of course, as always this is up to the GM) but i believe, RAW, that should be "AC 22 (full plate +3 Cha)"
If you are right about that bonus!! Personally i was working from if it replaces dex it uses all the dex rules but i'm sure i would never argue if my gm said otherwise. :)
If you want to go melee, I'd suggest:
Human Paladin:
Str: 16 (including racial+level) Dex: 12, Con: 12, Int: 8, Wis: 10, Cha: 14
Feats: Toughness, Dodge and then either Shield Focus, Power Attack or Weapon Focus.Get some heavy armor and shield. You'll have a good AC, great saves, and can swift action Lay on Hands yourself for 2d6 4 times a day. Prepare Hero's Defiance in your spell slot, and you can throw a 3d6 heal on yourself as you're falling unconscious to try to save yourself. Damage will be a little bit lower than going with a fighter, but Smite will make up for some of then when needed.
I like the human paladin for this too. I'd to the attributes about the same as Doggan, but the feats differently. I'd start with Fey Foundling & Power Attack, get Furious Focus at 3rd level, then wait and see what you need at 5th. I suggest using a greatsword.
At 5th level, you have a major decision to make: bonded weapon or mount? A paladin's mount is great, but if you think Serpent Skull will be very squeezy (lots of very small spaces) then it might be tough to use. On the other hand, if you think the GM is going to be particularly chincy with magic items, a bonded weapon might be your only way to get one.
Thank you for all your advice fellas.
I liked Doggan's Paladin, but after some talks with the group it seems that an LG Paladin will not survive amongst our delinquent party. So I'll probably opt for Dilvias' fighter.
I also talked to the DM and he might allow elements from UC and UM on a case by case basis. So I'll see if I could convince him to play a Gunslinger or a Magus which I've never played before. One of these could be my backup character in case the fighter dies.
To answer questions regarding why the Inquisitor isn't allowed... Well it actually is allowed. I'm just not a fan of playing this class. It seems to me like a second rate non-LG paladin or cleric. But perhaps I'm missing something?
Guess BT will be glad to explain that to you:D