Round 1 voting


RPG Superstar™ General Discussion

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Shadow Lodge RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka DLandonCole

If we say 1000 entries, there are 495000 pair combinations. If you took ten seconds for each of those and worked without stopping, it would take you almost sixty days to see each pair come up.

By way of comparison, RPG Superstar 2008 had 850 entries, so I'm guessing that there will be significantly more than that this year. I think it's unlikely anyone will see the same pair twice.

Liberty's Edge

You know, we could always ask the Paizo folks nicely to tell us how many entries are going to be eligible for the voting process. Pretty please?

Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 9

I think this might be the first year where they'd actually tell us. Still, that's a lot of permutations!

Owner - House of Books and Games LLC , Marathon Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7

They originally said you wouldn't see an item more than once, so you're only going to see about N/2 pairs for a submission of N items.

Unless they've changed their thinking about it :)


Sakrileg wrote:
RonarsCorruption wrote:
Anthony Adam wrote:
At least 32 and less than 100 billion I think :P
I'd put a maximum around 7 billion. I can't assume we'd get more entries than there are people currently living on the planet.
What about alternate dimensions?

And then there's always parallel universes.....

...oh I know, I can just have all of the "Me's" from all the parallel earth's vote for my item. I'll be a shoe in!

....

...Wait, what? I have to vote for all of the submissions made by all of my alternate selves, or they won't do it?

....

Spoiler:
Balls!

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 8 aka nate lange

i don't have time to go sifting through the forums looking for it, but last year one of the judges said something about the top 32 being like the top 2%... that would put it at about 1,500 entries (and it seems like it grows every year).

The Exchange Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9

Matthew D. Correll wrote:
Woodengolem wrote:
Am I the only one who wants to see a magical woodchipper now?

Not bad. But can we have it in chainsaw form, possibly modified to be a one handed weapon, so my Gunslinger can wield it with his Boomstick?

....

Just sayin'.

Carrion crown, wake of the watcher. I was a PC, so I don't know the details.

spoiler:

It took off our alch's feet

Marathon Voter Season 6

Daniel Brakefield wrote:
Woodengolem wrote:
My inactivity on the boards coupled with the fact that only only other entry was at the original RPG Superstar multiplied by the fact that nobody cares who I am means that none shall know! NONE!
A FINE strategy. I applaud your below-the-radar-ness. That is the sign of only the truest of geniuses.

Or the occasional madman.


Woodengolem wrote:
Daniel Brakefield wrote:
Woodengolem wrote:
My inactivity on the boards coupled with the fact that only only other entry was at the original RPG Superstar multiplied by the fact that nobody cares who I am means that none shall know! NONE!
A FINE strategy. I applaud your below-the-radar-ness. That is the sign of only the truest of geniuses.
Or the occasional madman.
Jack Burton wrote:
...and then you can rule the world from beyond the grave,...
Lo Pan wrote:
INDEED!
Jack Burton wrote:
...or check into a psycho ward, whichever happens first?

Sorry, everybody, I just love the classics! :D

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16 , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka JoelF847

What happens if someone votes for all items, but there's an odd number? Will they miss seeing that last item?

Shadow Lodge RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka DLandonCole

I guess it would just be compared to one of the others.

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Champion Voter Season 6, Champion Voter Season 7, Champion Voter Season 8, Champion Voter Season 9

Joel Flank wrote:
What happens if someone votes for all items, but there's an odd number? Will they miss seeing that last item?

That item gets a bye...

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7 aka Standback

gbonehead wrote:
They originally said you wouldn't see an item more than once, so you're only going to see about N/2 pairs for a submission of N items.

I don't think that's what they said. Here's what I saw (bolding mine):

Gary Teter wrote:

Items will be randomly selected for voting. Every item will be voted on before any item is selected for voting again. There will be no indication during voting how each item is currently ranked.

<snip>

You will be able to refresh the voting page as many times as you want—the more times people vote for one item or another, the better! (OK, technically, once you've ranked every single pair of items against each other, we'll stop offering you items to rank. But that's a LOT of item pairs.)

The first bolding isn't in an individual voter's history - it's overall. If ten people are voting, all at the same pace, then they'll be "splitting up" the total pool of items - no voter will see an item a different voter has seen, until they finish the pool. That makes sure that every item has a good number of votes placing it in the ranking. When the voters do finish the pool, they start it right over again.

What an individual voter won't see twice is a specific pair of items. That means each voter can vote a maximum of (N*(N-1))/2 times. For 1,000 entries, that'd be a total of 499500 votes. That'd take a lot of coffee :D

Owner - House of Books and Games LLC , Marathon Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7

I *thought* there was a comment somewhere that you wouldn't see an item more than once, though. In any event, we'll know for sure pretty darn soon :)

Lantern Lodge Customer Carebear

I believe Gary said they had to slightly relax the repeat item issue in order to maintain decent site performance.


I am kicked out of voting from time to time with request for relogging to my paizo account. After entering the password I am taken back to news page.


Where do I go to vote? I keep failing all forms of perception to find where to start voting.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Drejk wrote:
I am kicked out of voting from time to time with request for relogging to my paizo account. After entering the password I am taken back to news page.

Just some site issues... should be going away soon.

Assistant Software Developer , Star Voter Season 7

Rhuun wrote:
Where do I go to vote? I keep failing all forms of perception to find where to start voting.

Go to the RPG Superstar home page, and click the big link the says 'Click here to vote now!".

Paizo Employee PostMonster General

You should see a big "Click here to vote now!" link on the main RPG Superstar page.

There's a quirk where if the voting page asks you to sign in, you'll have to click the link again after signing in. We're looking into that.


Well done on the voting system it looks to be very impartial.

The site has stopped booting me out and asking me to log back in again.

Owner - House of Books and Games LLC , Marathon Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7

Sara Marie wrote:
I believe Gary said they had to slightly relax the repeat item issue in order to maintain decent site performance.

Makes sense. I've seen 44 items and just got my first duplicate.

Lantern Lodge Marathon Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 9

Does the voting algorithm prevent you from voting on your own item?

Dedicated Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7

TimsterMon wrote:
Does the voting algorithm prevent you from voting on your own item?

No, I just saw my own item for the third time in about an hour.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9 aka Darkjoy

Saint Caleth wrote:
TimsterMon wrote:
Does the voting algorithm prevent you from voting on your own item?
No, I just saw my own item for the third time in about an hour.

I have yet to see mine.....

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka theheadkase

I have yet to see mine as well, but I have gotten multiple duplicates.

Once I got the same item in the very next pairing, after I had voted the other item in the original pairing.

Dedicated Voter Season 6

Well, this is my first year entering (I just minimized the sections the last two years), but I am disheartened by the public voting method being how my first year is decided.

Here's my logic. In previous years the judges are all gamers with serious credentials, deciding what was or wasn't superstar (top 32, 64 or 128) before they had to single out the finalists.

Now say the top 32 are referred to as the top 2% of all the entrants. If we assume that that means that even if there were five times as many good items that had to be whittled down to only pick the top 2%, we have at least another 8% that were almost all superstar, but just not quite. We are left with 90% that are not able to produce a superstar quality item.

These 90% now make up the majority of the people voting on who the top 4% (in this case judges taking the 64 to pick the 32 from). That means that the population that cannot produce/recognize what is or isn't superstar, are the ones deciding who are in the top 4% for the judges to weed through before final decision.

How many top votes are the judges willing to ignore, even dumping all 64 if they see them as not superstar? Or are they bound by the top 64 to pick the best 32 from, regardless of whether the populace put a bunch of superstar items in there or items not even close to superstar?

I'm not saying I have a perfect entry. It's just that I find on almost all the comments I've read on the amount of bad items people see (and how many I've seen where I'm torn on deciding which is the lesser of two evils) that maybe the larger population isn't always the best judge of quality. I'm not trying to be mean, but every other year got to be the top 32 by being picked by industry leaders, this year the judges will be given 64 to choose from picked by a bunch of my peers. And if all my peers were superstar designers, we all probably wouldn't need the contest to decide which of us are superstar material, and which of us are just really impressed with ourselves.[/rant]

Sorry that this is my first introduction to the superstar community.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7 aka Standback

Troy - the original announcement was that the judges would pick 32 from the top 64, but that was quickly amended. The judges will be selecting their top 32 from however many entries it takes - going beyond the top 64 public ranking, if needed.

In other words, the public voting chooses the order in which the judges consider entries. They keep going until they find 32 they're pleased with.

I had the same concerns as you, but the fix reassured me :)

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Dedicated Voter Season 9 aka Darkjoy

I am trusting more and more in the math of this set-up.

I've voted on many items now and judging which is best of the two is becoming easier and easier. Because there are so many bad items, an item which is only mediocre in superstar terms (and often is a good solid item) gets my vote immediately.

I trust in math.

RPG Superstar 2009, Contributor

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Darkjoy wrote:
I am trusting more and more in the math of this set-up.

Yeah. I trust this method, too. The contest is old enough now that many folks have followed along and they know the drill on what should pass muster for a visit to the Keep folder. And that's really all this first pass with the public voting is enabling for the judges. You're helping decide what gets put in the Keep folder...even though, it's not being called that.

Even in prior years, the judges didn't always just focus on the Keep folder. If there was another item that caught their eye or they wanted to examine, sometimes they'd go outside of the Keep folder and elevate a rejected item again for further consideration and comparison. I like this approach this year for several reasons.

1) It's helping the judges preserve their sanity and avoid overworking themselves over the holidays even as the contest continues to attract record-high submissions year after year.

2) It's giving the voting public another view behind the curtain so they can properly appreciate the efforts that go into the judging process. There's nothing quite like RPG Superstar.

3) It's also giving the voters better insight into the different kinds of submissions seen by the judges and how it relates directly to all the advice they've offered year after year. Hopefully, that demonstrates the importance of doing your homework and applying all the lessons learned to your designs. It should give people hope that they can make the cut if they work at it.

4) It's just cool. I think the public involvement at this stage is a further "twist" for the contest that adds another layer to the entertainment value. Leveraging the work efforts of everyone in helping sort through the flood of items continues to foster that sense of community among Paizo's fans.

5) It's educational. Everyone can see the variety of ideas (both good and bad) and they can hopefully learn that much more about game design do's and don't's going forward.

But that's just my nickel's worth,
--Neil

Owner - House of Books and Games LLC , Marathon Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I think #5 is particularly important. It's really cool to be able to look at 250 items or so (to pick a number completely at random) and see what's out there. Some of them are pretty damn cool :)

Marathon Voter Season 6

Is there a system of golden tickets this year as well?

Liberty's Edge Star Voter Season 6

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Cheapy wrote:
Is there a system of golden tickets this year as well?

It's a trap, don't do it! Something tragic happened to most of the kids.

Poor Veruca...

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Cheapy wrote:
Is there a system of golden tickets this year as well?

We're waiting to see what the results of the public voting are like before we finalize exactly what we'll be doing with it. I'm hoping we'll find that golden tickets are no longer needed, but we'll see.

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