Jason's post was made in a thread, so I assume it's meant to be read in the context of the thread, not all by itself.
Man, they really went to far to keep vital strike balanced. It doesn't work with anything.
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There aren't holes in the RAW though (except for possibly the wording of Spirited Charge).
If you remove Spirited Charge from the equation, Vital Strike should still work from the back of a charging mount for x3 damage with Vital Strike and x5 damage with greater Vital Strike. Break it down:
Lance: A lance deals double damage when used from the back of a charging mount.
Mounts in combat: Your mount acts on your initiative count as you direct it. You move at its speed, but the mount uses its action to move.
If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge. When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance (see Charge).
And the final arguments for action economy:
You can use ranged weapons while your mount is taking a double move, but at a –4 penalty on the attack roll. You can use ranged weapons while your mount is running (quadruple speed) at a –8 penalty. In either case, you make the attack roll when your mount has completed half its movement. You can make a full attack with a ranged weapon while your mount is moving. Likewise, you can take move actions normally.
Mounted Skirmisher:Benefit: If your mount moves its speed or less, you can still take a full-attack action.
Normal: If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only take an attack action.
I want to re-emphasize that last point: "If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only take an attack action"
See this FAQ "Vital Strike can only be used as part of an attack action, which is a specific kind of standard action."
Everything in the rules and FAQs, says you can Vital Strike from the back of a charging mount.
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Combat: Charge: Lances and Charge Attacks: "A lance deals double damage if employed by a mounted character in a charge."
You've misquoted the text for the lance. What it says is " A lance deals double damage when used from the back of a charging mount"
Also, see my post above in regards to all action economy with mounts.
There are specific rules for what happens "if" you make an attack at the end of your mount's charge. Meaning... You could choose not to attack when your mount is charging... Which means... You are not the one using the charge action, since attacking is specifically a component of charging.
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Combat: Charge: Lances and Charge Attacks: "A lance deals double damage if employed by a mounted character in a charge."
You've misquoted the text for the lance. What it says is " A lance deals double damage when used from the back of a charging mount"
Also, see my post above in regards to all action economy with mounts.
There are specific rules for what happens "if" you make an attack at the end of your mount's charge. Meaning... You could choose not to attack when your mount is charging... Which means... You are not the one using the charge action, since attacking is specifically a component of charging.I copied the text directly from Paizo's site. Search for "lance" and you'll see.
And you're still ignoring all the other mentions of charging from horseback, even explicit use of the phrase "using the charge action."
How do Ride by Attack and Spirited Charge work if a character isn't taking a charge action while on a mount? Are they like the sniper feat that didn't do anything until it was errata'd it last week?
I copied my link directly from the equipment page where the lance is introduced. It is also a working link, which yours is not. Secondly,are you even reading my many, many posts in this thread?
"Mounts in combat: Your mount acts on your initiative count as you direct it. You move at its speed, but the mount uses its action to move.
If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge. When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance (see Charge)."
Your mount is the one charging, you reap the benefits. Very straightforward. The action economy is totally clear. Your mount is the one moving. It uses it's own actions to do it. Your mount can charge, and you have the option to attack at the end of it. You know what that means? You are not the one charging, otherwise attacking wouldn't be an option.
Spirited Charge and Ride-by attack either a)trigger off your mount's charge,
or b) don't work at all as written, unless you're on the back of a colossal mount and have room to take a running start.
Yeah, if your mount moves more then 5 ft you can only take an attack action. And you can certainly Vital Strike with that attack action. On the other hand, once your charging on horseback it's not so clear. In every case you described the action economy of mounted combat works the way you say it does, with the mount taking the move action and you moving at it's speed. But then the mount charges, the benefit of the charge is conferred to you, and we run into language like this: "When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance.". Sounds relatively innocuous, but when you read feats like spirited charge and ride-by attack it confirms the worst. "When mounted and using the charge action..."
Whoa! Ninja'd!
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Combat: Charge: Lances and Charge Attacks: "A lance deals double damage if employed by a mounted character in a charge."
You've misquoted the text for the lance. What it says is " A lance deals double damage when used from the back of a charging mount"
Also, see my post above in regards to all action economy with mounts.
There are specific rules for what happens "if" you make an attack at the end of your mount's charge. Meaning... You could choose not to attack when your mount is charging... Which means... You are not the one using the charge action, since attacking is specifically a component of charging.I copied the text directly from Paizo's site. Search for "lance" and you'll see.
And you're still ignoring all the other mentions of charging from horseback, even explicit use of the phrase "using the charge action."
How do Ride by Attack and Spirited Charge work if a character isn't taking a charge action while on a mount? Are they like the sniper feat that didn't do anything until it was errata'd it last week?
I copied my link directly from the equipment page where the lance is introduced. It is also a working link, which yours is not. Secondly,are you even reading my many, many posts in this thread?
"Mounts in combat: Your mount acts on your initiative count as you direct it. You move at its speed, but the mount uses its action to move.
If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge. When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance (see Charge)."
Your mount is the one charging, you reap the benefits. Very straightforward. The action economy is totally clear. Your mount is the one moving. It uses it's own actions to do it. Your mount can charge, and you have the option to attack at the end of it. You know what that means? You are not the one charging, otherwise attacking wouldn't be an option it would be a requirement.
Spirited Charge and Ride-by attack either a)trigger off your mount's charge,
or b) don't work at all as written, unless you're on the back of a colossal mount and have room to take a running start.
We know that this is true because the mounted combat sections says " Your mount acts on your initiative count as you direct it. You move at its speed, but the mount uses its action to move."
And Movement During a Charge says "Movement During a Charge: You must move before your attack, not after. You must move at least 10 feet (2 squares) and may move up to double your speed directly toward the designated opponent"
If you aren't the one moving, you aren't the one taking the charge action.
When you attack a creature smaller than your mount that is on foot, you get the +1 bonus on melee attacks for being on higher ground. If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack. Essentially, you have to wait until the mount gets to your enemy before attacking, so you can't make a full attack. Even at your mount's full speed, you don't take any penalty on melee attacks while mounted.
The RAW never says you can take a standard action after your mount moves, it says you can make a single melee attack. The RAW is not specific as to whether this attack is the 'attack action' or just a melee attack, not unlike the single melee attack granted by charge or spring attack. It's open for GM interpretation.
RAI, I think the devs intended for you to be able to take the 'attack action'.
RAI, It has been made abundantly clear that the devs did not intend charge and vital strike to mix.
So the answer is either "No" or "Ask your GM"
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When you attack a creature smaller than your mount that is on foot, you get the +1 bonus on melee attacks for being on higher ground. If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack. Essentially, you have to wait until the mount gets to your enemy before attacking, so you can't make a full attack. Even at your mount's full speed, you don't take any penalty on melee attacks while mounted.The RAW never says you can take a standard action after your mount moves, it says you can make a single melee attack. The RAW is not specific as to whether this attack is the 'attack action' or just a melee attack, not unlike the single melee attack granted by charge or spring attack. It's open for GM interpretation.
RAI, I think the devs intended for you to be able to take the 'attack action'.
RAI, It has been made abundantly clear that the devs did not intend charge and vital strike to mix.
So the answer is either "No" or "Ask your GM"
Which is why earlier I linked the Mounted Skirmisher feat for clarity, which says
"Benefit: If your mount moves its speed or less, you can still take a full-attack action.Normal: If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only take an attack action."
It specifies the action type as an attack action, which as we know from the Vital Strike FAQ, is a specific type of standard action, the kind you need to be taking, in fact, to Vital Strike.
I wish ride-by attack and spirited didn't say what they say, but they do. This is the same thing people use to defend ragelancepunce. It seems much less overpowered to let vital strike work with a mounted charge if we compare it to ragelancepunce. Come on.
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I wish ride-by attack and spirited didn't say what they say, but they do. This is the same thing people use to defend ragelancepunce. It seems much less overpowered to let vital strike work with a mounted charge if we compare it to ragelancepunce. Come on.
They just say "when mounted and using the charge action". If your mount is charging, you meet this qualifier but still have your own action economy to utilize.
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I'd also like to point out this FAQ, an official RAW source, btw, which says "One, because a lance only deals extra damage when you’re riding a charging mount—not when you are charging"
Which also wraps up the vagueness in the Spirited Charge feat since it specifically references the way it interacts with the lance. Since it uses the same wording as Ride-by Attack, it would seem to wrap that up as well. There are now no inconsistencies, anywhere that I'm aware of, and there is absolutely nothing preventing you from using Vital Strike and Spirited Charge from the back of a charging mount.
"when mounted and using the charge action."
That means not only are you mounted, you are also using the charge action.
I don't know how we get here, like you said, in every other aspect of mounted combat up until this point we have our own action economy apart from the mount. But there you have it.
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"when mounted and using the charge action."
That means not only are you mounted, you are also using the charge action.
I don't know how we get here, like you said, in every other aspect of mounted combat up until this point we have our own action economy apart from the mount. But there you have it.
See my FAQ from SKR above. It points out that your statement is absolutely incorrect, and makes it clear in no uncertain terms that your mount is the one charging, not you.
I'd also like to point out this FAQ an official RAW source, btw, which says "One, because a lance only deals extra damage when you’re riding a charging mount—not when you are charging"
Which also wraps up the vagueness in the Spirited Charge feat since it specifically references the way it interacts with the lance. Since it uses the same wording as Ride-by Attack, it would seem to wrap that up as well. There are now no inconsistencies, anywhere that I'm aware of, and there is absolutely nothing preventing you from using Vital Strike and Spirited Charge from the back of a charging mount.
That SKR quote from the FAQ is an excellent find and definitely gives you some ammo. As for those conclusions you drew after that however, I don't follow you at all. The wording in those feats and that one tricky sentence in mounted combat are still just as much of a problem as before. The SKR quote is just a clue as to the RAI. Those feats are still in print and contradict that.
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That SKR quote from the FAQ is an excellent find and definitely gives you some ammo. As for those conclusions you drew after that however, I don't follow you at all. The wording in those feats and that one tricky sentence in mounted combat are still just as much of a problem as before. The SKR quote is just a clue as to the RAI. Those feats are still in print and contradict that.I'd also like to point out this FAQ an official RAW source, btw, which says "One, because a lance only deals extra damage when you’re riding a charging mount—not when you are charging"
Which also wraps up the vagueness in the Spirited Charge feat since it specifically references the way it interacts with the lance. Since it uses the same wording as Ride-by Attack, it would seem to wrap that up as well. There are now no inconsistencies, anywhere that I'm aware of, and there is absolutely nothing preventing you from using Vital Strike and Spirited Charge from the back of a charging mount.
Spirited Charge specifically references the damage done by a lance as doing triple instead of double. Since a lance only does double when your mount is charging...
Which is why earlier I linked the Mounted Skirmisher feat for clarity, which says
"Benefit: If your mount moves its speed or less, you can still take a full-attack action.Normal: If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only take an attack action."
It specifies the action type as an attack action, which as we know from the Vital Strike FAQ, is a specific type of standard action, the kind you need to be taking, in fact, to Vital Strike.
So, at your table, you would draw from a feat in a splat book to interpret the RAW. Fair enough.
Still doesn't change the ambiguity of the core rulebook.
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Which is why earlier I linked the Mounted Skirmisher feat for clarity, which says
"Benefit: If your mount moves its speed or less, you can still take a full-attack action.Normal: If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only take an attack action."
It specifies the action type as an attack action, which as we know from the Vital Strike FAQ, is a specific type of standard action, the kind you need to be taking, in fact, to Vital Strike.
So, at your table, you would draw from a feat in a splat book to interpret the RAW. Fair enough.
Still doesn't change the ambiguity of the core rulebook.
FAQ's do though, see my post above. Also, the Advanced Player's Guide, where the Mounted Skirmisher feat is found, is not a "splat book". It is one of the core product line, and introduces other additional rules as well outside of those presented in the CRB.
You should check out the ragelancepounce thread from last year, it coincidentally got necro'd today. I read the whole thing over today and I remember reading it a year ago, just as frustrated then as I was today. I wanted to make the case you are making in that thread, I would still love to, but they will just throw this in my face:
Spirited Charge (Combat)
Your mounted charge attacks deal a tremendous amount of damage.
Prerequisites: Ride 1 rank, Mounted Combat, Ride-By Attack.
Benefit: When mounted and using the charge action,
It's ironclad.
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You should check out the ragelancepounce thread from last year, it coincidentally got necro'd today. I read the whole thing over today and I remember reading it a year ago, just as frustrated then as I was today. I wanted to make the case you are making in that thread, I would still love to, but they will just throw this in my face:
It's ironclad.Spirited Charge (Combat)
Your mounted charge attacks deal a tremendous amount of damage.
Prerequisites: Ride 1 rank, Mounted Combat, Ride-By Attack.
Benefit: When mounted and using the charge action,
And I just introduced you to the FAQ that was created in response to the old ragelancepounce, which clarifies that it is your mount taking the charge action, as stated in the official FAQ by Sean Reynolds. That's the whole reason ragelancepounce doesn't work, because your mount is the one charging, not you.
So, at your table, you would draw from a feat in a splat book to interpret the RAW. Fair enough.
Still doesn't change the ambiguity of the core rulebook.
FAQ's do though, see my post above. Also, the Advanced Player's Guide, where the Mounted Skirmisher feat is found, is not a "splat book". It is one of the core product line, and introduces other additional rules as well outside of those presented in the CRB.
You mean this FAQ?
Lance: If I have the pounce ability and I charge with a lance, do my iterative lance attacks get the lance's extra damage multiplier from charging?
No, for two reasons.
One, because a lance only deals extra damage when you’re riding a charging mount—not when you are charging.
Two, even if you have an unusual combination of rules that allows you to ignore the above limitation, it doesn’t makes sense that those iterative attacks gain the damage bonus. To make that second attack, you have to pull the lance back and stab forward again, and that stab doesn’t have the benefit of the charge’s momentum. (The Core Rulebook doesn’t state that you only get the damage multiplier on the first attack with a lance because when the Core Rulebook was published, there was no way for a PC to charge and get multiple attacks with a weapon in the same round, so that combination didn’t need to be addressed.)
—Sean K Reynolds, 03/01/12
I'm sorry, but I don't see the relevance.
Yeah that FAQ was a great catch by you. Not just the faq but specifically the little distinction he drew between riding a charging mount vs when you are charging. He put it in italics and everything.
Yet the whole thing wasn't really squashed right there. The ragelancepounce thing died down a little. People said it had been nerfed by that ruling. Correct me if I'm wrong but the consensus on the boards to this day is that Shawn ruled you can still ragelancepounce on a mount you just don't get the extra damage multiplier on your iteratives.
So, at your table, you would draw from a feat in a splat book to interpret the RAW. Fair enough.
Still doesn't change the ambiguity of the core rulebook.
FAQ's do though, see my post above. Also, the Advanced Player's Guide, where the Mounted Skirmisher feat is found, is not a "splat book". It is one of the core product line, and introduces other additional rules as well outside of those presented in the CRB.You mean this FAQ?
I'm sorry, but I don't see the relevance.Lance: If I have the pounce ability and I charge with a lance, do my iterative lance attacks get the lance's extra damage multiplier from charging?
No, for two reasons.
One, because a lance only deals extra damage when you’re riding a charging mount—not when you are charging.
Two, even if you have an unusual combination of rules that allows you to ignore the above limitation, it doesn’t makes sense that those iterative attacks gain the damage bonus. To make that second attack, you have to pull the lance back and stab forward again, and that stab doesn’t have the benefit of the charge’s momentum. (The Core Rulebook doesn’t state that you only get the damage multiplier on the first attack with a lance because when the Core Rulebook was published, there was no way for a PC to charge and get multiple attacks with a weapon in the same round, so that combination didn’t need to be addressed.)
—Sean K Reynolds, 03/01/12
It's totally relevant.
a lance only deals extra damage when you’re riding a charging mount—not when you are charging.
He says you don't get extra lance damage when you charge.
Yeah, maybe he means "when you charge normally" or "when you charge on foot", something like that, you know. "when you charge without the aid of your mount."But if you take what he's saying in a strictly literal sense, it's constant with what ssallaarn is saying.
You get extra lance damage when you ride a charging mount, but not when you charge. Therefore, when you get extra lance damage you are not charging.
Therefore your attack at the end of your horses charge is a standard action and qualifies for vital strike.
Simple, right?
Except we have these feats that are in print that contradict this. So... I dunno.
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Lookie here:
I'm just going to highlight the important part of this here but I've linked in SKR's entire quote for reference.
"If YOU are mounted, the MOUNT is making the charge, YOU are NOT making a charge. "
Pretty, uh, pretty straightforward there. Not a whole lot of room for equivocation.
YES!! Nice.
Vital strike with Spirited Charge/charge/Sping attack....
By the rules it dose not work and it has beed said that it dose not work over and over in more threads that I can count....
Why?.?.? Well my anwser is simple it the way a lance/brace works.
Lance: A lance deals double damage when used from the back of a charging mount. While mounted, you can wield a lance with one hand.
Brace: If you use a readied action to set a brace weapon against a charge, you deal double damage on a successful hit against a charging character
So if Vital striked(3) and Spirted Charged will mounted with lance and it worked it you do for medium guy it would do(Big Freaken number)
3d8x3+3d8+BFNx3= 6d8+BFNx3= to much for a single shot.
And you change the x3 to x4 if you crtical.
"So if lance worked like this"
Lance: deal a extra damge dice that is not multiplide when used from the back of a charging mount. While mounted, you can wield a lance with one hand.
And you change Spirited Charge to this
Spirited Charge: deal a extra damge dice equal to the weapon that is not multiplide when used from the back of a charging mount.
And you change Brace to
Brace: If you use a readied action to set a brace weapon against a charge, you deal extra damage dice equal to the weapon that is not multipled on a crtitical on a successful hit against a charging target.
Then it would come in to the range of fairness and would look more like this.
Med wielder,Lance,Chargeing,Spirited Charge,Vital Strike Chian (3)+BFN
or
1d8+5d8+BFN that on crittical is (2d8+2BFN)+5d8 or 7d8+(BFNx2)
And if work like that then you could Vital strike and any of this list charge, Ride-by, fly-by, swim-by, Srping Attack.
You cold even let vital strike it work on cleave and great cleave ifit work like this
Cleave (Combat)
You can strike two adjacent foes with a single swing.
Prerequisites: Str 13, Power Attack, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: As a standard action, you can make a single attack at your full base attack bonus against a foe within reach. If you hit, you deal damage normally includeing extra damage dice and can make an additional attack (using your full base attack bonus) against a foe that is adjacent to the first and also within reach dueing base weapon dice damage +BFN . You can only make one additional attack per round with this feat. When you use this feat, you take a –2 penalty to your Armor Class until your next turn.
So it only dose the extra dice against the first taget and not the latter ones.
So why do they not do this well they are stuck in 3.5 rule set handed down to them by WoTC. And make this changes would make the game run more like 4th ed way of running it. And lastly tradition becuse Lance has all ways done more more damge while mointed since 1st ed D&D.
Tom you can't just say it doesn't work because it's too much damage the question is does it work as written.
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**stuff**
Unfortunately, you just put a giant wall of text in front of our victory dance, so I'm going to re-post it here:
In this FAQ SKR makes it clear that a lance only does double damage from the back of a charging mount. In this quote SKR specifically states "If YOU are mounted, the MOUNT is making the charge, YOU are NOT making a charge".We also know from the Mounted Skirmisher feat that normal is "If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only take an attack action".
the Vital Strike FAQ says " Vital Strike can only be used as part of an attack action, which is a specific kind of standard action."
What does that mean? It means you still have your full complement of actions, you can Vital Strike with a lance from the back of a charging mount, and you can do 4x damage with Vital Strike and Spirited Charge or 6x damage with Greater Vital Strike.
Small nitpick but I don't think it's correct to express the extra damage from the vital strike as an increased multiplier. It should just be an additional dice of damage.
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Small nitpick but I don't think it's correct to express the extra damage from the vital strike as an increased multiplier. It should just be an additional dice of damage.
Sorry, I did the correct math earlier in the thread, but I believe it should look like:
Vital Strike + Spirited Charge= 3x weapon Spirited charge + 1x weapon Vital Strike + 3x STR and Enhancements + precision and weapon propertiesor
Greater Vital Strike + Spirited Charge= 3x weapon Spirited Charge + 3x weapon Greater Vital Strike + 3x STR and Enhancement + precision and weapon properties.
I think that's more accurate.
Yup. In light of SKR's comment I can't see any reason that doesn't work.
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Yup. In light of SKR's comment I can't see any reason that doesn't work.
I like it, it allows the cavalier to utilize his full suite of abilities without absolutely having to have the mounted skirmisher feat. It also opens up the possibility of having a primarily ranged cavalier who can still have a potent melee attack for a five feat investment. Which is cool.
I like it because it's finally something cool you can do with vital strike. Fingers crossed though, for some reason VS is the redheaded stepchild of feats.
Tom you can't just say it doesn't work because it's too much damage the question is does it work as written.
But I can... cause to much damage in single shot breaks the balence of the game witch is why keep say no it dose not work. So if you bring the damage total down it would be fair. I mean right now how many time do you kill a target before you roll dice. The BFBx3 just because you charge is what breaking it not a extra 2 dice or 3 dice of damage...
I should on average roll 20 to threaten a crittal once every 20 rolls. That let me do form x2-x3-x4 damge. If hit hit the target AC again.
This dose not always happen.
Just because I charged dose not mean I should automaticly do x2 or x3 more damage. It mess up the balence of the game to where you can one shot a monster or pc that above there CR.
A fighter level 1 with a lance, monted Combat, Spired charge, STR 18
dose 3d8+18 at level 1 with just hit on a charge. This auto kill most CR 2s or less before you roll dice. And it dose 4d8+24 on critacl This auto kill most CR 3s before dice are rolled. It make the game to simple. Or to dealy. and it only get worst as you level.
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**Stuff**
There are lots of builds that can one-hit level one challenges. Them's the breaks. A Vital Striking barbarian with an Earthbreaker can do 4d6+7 on every hit easily and 8d6+21 on a crit, which will also kill any CR 1 challenge and most CR 2's. It's how it impacts the balance of the game over the whole level spread that makes the difference, and in this case, it mostly just gets cavaliers back on par with the other powerful combat damage builds like Archers and Two-Handed Fighters.
**stuff**Unfortunately, you just put a giant wall of text in front of our victory dance, so I'm going to re-post it here:
In this FAQ SKR makes it clear that a lance only does double damage from the back of a charging mount. In this quote SKR specifically states "If YOU are mounted, the MOUNT is making the charge, YOU are NOT making a charge".
We also know from the Mounted Skirmisher feat that normal is "If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only take an attack action".
the Vital Strike FAQ says " Vital Strike can only be used as part of an attack action, which is a specific kind of standard action."What does that mean? It means you still have your full complement of actions, you can Vital Strike with a lance from the back of a charging mount, and you can do 4x damage with Vital Strike and Spirited Charge or 6x damage with Greater Vital Strike.
Using that interpretation, the barbarian can make a full attack any time any character charges, not just when the barbarian charges. My paladin buddy just charged? That's "a" charge, I get to make a full attack! My enemy just charged me? That's "a" charge, I get to make a full attack!
Or you could realize that the Greater Beast Totem ability is just summarizing the pounce UMR, and the pounce UMR says says "Pounce (Ex) When a creature with this special attack makes a charge, it can make a full attack (including rake attacks if the creature also has the rake ability)."
Also, the mounted combat rules say If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack. Essentially, you have to wait until the mount gets to your enemy before attacking, so you can't make a full attack.
GBT gives you pounce.
Pounce allows YOU to make a full attack when YOU make a charge.
If YOU are mounted, the MOUNT is making the charge, YOU are NOT making a charge.
The mounted combat rules specifically say that you only get ONE attack if your mount charges.
GBT does NOT say "when the barbarian is mounted and the MOUNT makes a charge, SHE may make a full attack."
Therefore, GBT-rage-mount-pounce does not work.
Read the whole post it dose not work... Unless you change the rules... so no victory dance
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The whole debate is cleared up if you read the Mythic Vital Strike Feat which says you can charge and use VItal Strike. Which mans if you dont have Myhic Viatal strike you cannot charge and and use vital stike together.
Did you just skip reading any portion of the thread all together to come in and drop your opinion? We covered the fact that Vital Strike cannot be used in conjunction with a charge, but when your mount charges You are not charging as stated by SKR and referenced in numerous FAQ links and posts throughout the thread so far. Scroll up like 6 or 7 posts and it'll be laid out for you all nice and neat.
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***Read the whole post it dose not work... Unless you change the rules... so no victory dance
I did read the whole post, and everything works exactly like I said it did. There is absolutely nothing in there that contradicts anything I've said, and in fact, everything supports it.
Sean does mention that in mounted combat you can only make one attack. We already knew this, that's what the Mounted Skirmisher feat is for. We know from the reference in the Mounted Skirmisher feat that that one attack is the attack action, which you can use to Vital Strike. So everything works exactly like I said.
The whole debate is cleared up if you read the Mythic Vital Strike Feat which says you can charge and use VItal Strike. Which mans if you dont have Myhic Viatal strike you cannot charge and and use vital stike together.
I think everyone agrees you can't charge and use vital strike. This is about whether you count as charging when the mount you are riding charges. SKR just said no, you do not.
Ahh this is about whether the virtual charge (that gives you bonuses to hit and increased damage) counts as a charge for determining if you can do a vital strike modifier to the attack action and whether you can stack a ton of multipliers.
Definitely a grey area but so much about the Vital Strike and Mounted Combat rules are such grey areas.