I appreciate the advice, but if we can, let's step back from the metagame suggestions, and focus on a few concrete tactics and questions of rules operation. Let's start with the very basics:
1. How does a group of NPCs spot a flying and invisible target? What's the DC to figure out the location of the target? If the target casts spells, how does that modify the DC? What if the caster uses a fireball (long range, so they're over 100' away, and quite possibly, straight up) and then moves - what's the DC to determine his location?
DC 0 +20 for Invis + X, where X equals 1 per 10 feet to determine the square where the attack came from. As a GM I would reduce this if the victim is aware of the direction that the attack was coming from, and again if visibility if favorable.
2. An NPC is hit by a spell that creates a 50' deep pit, the bottom of which is full of acid. The Climb check to get out is DC 30. Can the NPC do anything other than make Climb checks each round? Is it even worth making the Climb checks if the NPC has a better chance of falling back in than of getting out of the pit?
Barring nothing magical (Potion of Spider Climb or Levitate comes to mind) Climb check to get out of the acid then either stay put and wait for the spell to expire or keep climbing depending on battlefield factors.
3. If a character is attacked by an invisible opponent in melee, he automatically knows the location of the invisible opponent, correct? Can he communicate that fact to his allies?
Of course. "Attack where I attack!" clarifies the 5 foot square the opponent is attacking from.
4. Suppose that the invisible opponent encounters a guy with a bag of flour in melee. What is the mechanic for using the bag of flour to bust the invisibility? A Reflex save to avoid? If the invisible opponent is hit with flour, what is the effect on that creature? Does the flour merely reveal its location, or does it reduce the miss chance? If it reduces the miss chance, does it reduce it to 20% or 0%?
See Combat > Throw Splash Weapon. Ranged attack versus AC5 to hit the square the invis guy is in. Just throwing the sack in their square should reveal the invis guy (Have you ever baked anything from scratch? Flour gets in, on and all over EVERYTHING)
5. Suppose the opponents decide to retreat and wait for the buffs to run out. How do they manage that if they move 30 or 40, but the opponents fly at 40 or 60? Will waiting for the buffs to expire improve his situation, or will it merely result in a few rounds of unresponded to punishments?
See below.
It sounds like the combat was simply played incorrectly. Something that happens all the time really, but it can justify was seemed like an unfair combat.
1)You can't run while under the Fly spell. A Barbarian on the ground is going to outrun a flying party. Hell, the Barbarian is going to outrun a non-flying party. The Barbarian would have known that he was at a tactical disadvantage and fled to find a better battleground. Either the party tries to catch him, all the while the archers shoot down the party, or the party lets him flee and fights the skeletons; either way the Barbarian wins.
2)Invisibility duration means that it had to be cast very close to the Barbarian. Remember, no running while under the Fly spell, so only double moves. The Barbarian should have either seen or heard them a short distance away buffing up, or the invis would have worn off by the time they caught up to the Barbarian.
Chalk it up as a misread of the rules, tell the Sorcerer to manage his spells better (it's not the GM's responsibility to manage everything, IMO), and move on. The PC's are supposed to win by default anyway.
Competent parties will crush most CR-appropriate enemies if they are able to control when the battle takes place and buff in advance, especially if they know the enemy. If they don't know the enemy, using up all your spells on casting invisibility is a huge risk as they might have a counter. If they don't have time to buff, then by the time they've all turned invisible the battle is likely to be largely over anyway. If they can't control the timing of the battle, the buffs might wear off.
Similarly, if they don't have unlimited time to rest, they won't want to spend so many magical resources on a single battle. Under these circumstances, enemies with no special counters remain a threat.
A few things.
1) if the outcome of a battle
2) At high levels you will have a LOT of buffs
3) 3D combat can be hairy.
EXACTLY...right on Ry. Content shortened because you all didn't need to read it again...
Aren't undead immune to illusion effects like invisibility or am I missing something here?
Undead Traits (Ex) Undead are immune to death effects, disease, mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, phantasms, and patterns), paralysis, poison, sleep, stun, and any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless). Undead are not subject to ability drain, energy drain, or nonlethal damage. Undead are immune to damage or penalties to their physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), as well as to fatigue and exhaustion effects. Undead are not at risk of death from massive damage.
Invisibility is a Glamer. Undead are not immune to Glamers. An example of an Illusion undead are immune to is Color Spray, which is a Pattern.
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The party is using sound tactics, which should produce some easy victories. Their enemies may also learn from those victories, adopting countermeasures and adding wrinkles to forestall the party's actions.
I think you're missing the point a bit. There are spells that can lead to easy victories that are tolerable because they make fights shorter (e.g. hold monster). The problem (well, I think it's a problem) is with spells that make fights longer, countermeasures or no countermeasures.
Fun is relative.
Heh... this is, in fact, a major reason I think the game just breaks down once you get to level 15 or so. Level 12 is still somewhat comprehensible, but only just. Level 20 spellcaster play is like playing god.I really don't want to think about that. I may be forced to take the advice in this thread and flee the encounter, possibly locking the door behind me so the players can't follow as I burn the campaign notes and swear to never play Pathfinder again.
7. If you think encounters are dominated by spells at level 10.... wait 'til you reach level 15.
Coincidentally, level 12 is the highest I've ever played in Pathfinder. It was a GM game (all the GMs that didn't get to play in the club met over break and did a one-shot). It got crazy, but that was only because we had one guy that basically spent the two weeks leading up to this building an insanely broken wizard/magus that could deal something like 360 damage of any energy type during each encounter.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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The party is using sound tactics, which should produce some easy victories. Their enemies may also learn from those victories, adopting countermeasures and adding wrinkles to forestall the party's actions.I think you're missing the point a bit. There are spells that can lead to easy victories that are tolerable because they make fights shorter (e.g. hold monster). The problem (well, I think it's a problem) is with spells that make fights longer, countermeasures or no countermeasures.
The spellcaster in the room immediately prior to the barbarian was a 12th level cleric with a template of some type, and he met his end because of a good roll on a single spell. Ironically, he was one of the few opponents not bothered by Create Acid Pit (he had pre-cast Air Walk, IIRC) or Invisibility (he had an innate See Invisibility ability). Obviously, the party didn't use either of those spells during the encounter with him (for no particular reason), but they did succeed on the Dispel Magic check to break his Anti-Life Shell. After that surprise, he got trapped between the party barbarian and the fighter/rogue, and they kept him from ever managing to cast another spell. That particular fight was significantly more one-sided than the encounter with the chief villian barbarian - the party expended very few resources on buffs, dropped a minimum number of spells (the Dispel Magic and a few Magic Missile), and took no damage. That was disappointing, but not entirely unexpected given that the shell was in lieu of attack-soaking minions that would've prevented a 4 on 1 face-stomping party.
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In pathfinder, like 3.5, the ability to prepare has tremendous value. If the PCs (or the enemies for that matter) have a chance to buff up, pretty much any fight becomes a cakewalk. If they have a chance to pick spells for that specific encounter, its pretty nuts. You can either: try to prevent this by switching things up. Give them bad intel. Or, simply go along with it. Give the PCs the advantage. If its a one-time thing, then they deserve to have a victory lap combat for being smart. If they ALWAYS play smart. (Your PCs are the A-Team) then scale up their foes accordingly.
I like to play smart myself. I would rather the GM added an extra monster, or advanced the enemies, rather than trying to arbitrarily screw with my tactics so they don't work. When I GM, my PCs are usually dead-set on dumb tactics, so its not an issue, but when I HAVE GMed very tactical (or min-maxed) characters, I've simply bumped up the encounters. Instead of a gryphon, they fight a diabolic gryphon. They get a feeling of accomplishment, and the fight is still challenging.
Buffing properly is insanely powerful, which is one reason I shake my head when I play with other players who have never learned how to buff.
Back in the old days buffing was not optional. If you didn't learn to buff, you probably died. For the first decade I played D&D I doubt I entered a single low-to-mid-level combat encounter without bless having been cast, or being the first thing that was cast for the fight.
The difference between my druid just wading into combat and my druid being properly buffed for combat is something along the lines of +5 to attack and +2-4 to damage on every attack. The party's standard encounter buffs are the following:
Druid casts "Cat's Grace" on herself (+2 to bow attacks, +2 to AC)
Cleric casts "Bless" (+1 to attacks and saving throws)
Bard initiates Bardic Performance (+2 to attacks and damage)
Given enough time I'll throw a "Greater Magic Fang" on my AC and the cleric will throw a "Greater Magic Weapon" on either my bow or our barbarian's axe, depending on whether the combat is more melee or ranged oriented.
If we are seriously preparing and have the opportunity to do so, we'll throw in the following buffs:
Bull's Strength (on the barbarian, the AC or both)
Barkskin (on the AC usually)
Protection from Evil (a vastly underrated and under-utilized spell)
Gravity bow (on the druid's bow, using a wand)
Ah heck, you get the idea. Given time to prepare and buff, our party can probably double our combat effectiveness by hitting more often, hitting harder and being harder to hit.
The PC should end up well known, which mean enemies will come after them and screw with the "5 minutes adventuring day" thing... because, even if the PCs want their rest, doesn't mean the enemies have to let them rest.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Adamantine Dragon has the right of it. It's not 'Scry and Die' that kills you. It's Scry, BUFF, and Die. Being hit unbuffed by buffed opponents is a death sentence. Not having the ability to buff and fighting opponents that have that capability is being on the wrong side of combined arms, and a death sentence. Everything you do as a BBEG defensively should be aimed at avoiding precisely this situation.
That points to a somewhat simple and novel solution to the Scry and Die problem - have Teleport strip off all magical effects when used.
@beej67: Sebastian was running a module encounter, so the bad guy was preset.
Then the module writers are to blame, for their ill conceived badguy who probably could never have obtained the artifact sword on his own.
I disagree with you, beej67, that the way to "fix" a high level melee character is to give them a spellcaster friend. That should not be necessary. Certainly, any high level melee character will have access to magic of some kind, be it their own unusual capabilities (barbarian rage powers for example, many of which could actually let you bash your way through a tomb to get an artifact and come out relatively unscathed, esp. combined with barbarian trap sense), or treasure that they have bought, borrowed, stolen, or made.
Druid friend is the easiest fix, but there are plenty others. The over arching fix, though, is to make the badguy MAKE SENSE in the game world. A badguy who is walking around with artifact weapons CERTAINLY would have encountered people who could cast 3rd level spells before. Unless he's of animal intelligence, he's dealt with that before, and has a plan. If not Druid Friend, maybe a Ring of Air Elemental Command?
Also also reiterate to the general thread discussion that it would NOT be unusual for a 10th level character to have some way of defeating invisibility and have some way to fly if they needed to. This is not metagaming. This is common sense. A character who has gotten to 10th level has likely dealt with invisible and/or flying monsters and would come to learn through personal experience that these things can happen and one should be prepared for it. Having your NPCs exhibit forethought and common sense and planning is not metagaming, it is designing a world with a good deal of verisimilitude.
Bingo. I could not have possibly said it better. If the top poster's hands were tied by an encounter writeup, then the authors need to be blamed for not knowing enough about the World of Pathfinder and giving a veritable cripple a bunch of awesome loot for the PCs to go and steal. Don't blame the PCs for beating up on the cripple.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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*sigh*
Look, I appreciate the attempt at a contribution, but if you're just going to make shit up and pretend like it's facts, that's neither helpful nor relevant. The module, in fact, includes two 8th level clerics who act as the barbarian's spirtual advisors. They guided him to the point of obtaining ye old artifact sword, and were killed by the players as they entered the dungeon. Now, I'm sure that in your infinite understanding of the game and given your long and storied list of credentials, that you would've written a much better adventure which provided for those advisors surviving until the end and/or being glued to the barbarian so that he never loses them, but unfortunately, I'm stuck with the APs and modules written and produced by Paizo and their freelancers, as sad and pathetic as that may seem to you.
two 8th level clerics... being glued to the barbarian so that he never loses them...
To be fair, it is a trope for a reason.
That said though, the problem here is that the party is trouncing the module as written yes? And you would like them to have a bit more of a challenge? Then you should feel free to modify it as needed. A barbarian facing a fully rounded party is going to suffer greatly from a lack of magical support, unless they have items or some kind of ability to deal with the different possibilities. That undead support isn't going to manage to fix things, but if the Barb even had a potion of see invisibility, and/or a potion of fly, that would have made things quite a bit better for him. Edit:
But, if such things aren't being taken into account by the module, and you're completely against changing how you run it... then I'm not sure what kind of answer you're looking for? Not to sound snarky, I promise, but there's been some good suggestions of how to counter such tactics of the party. If you're not going to use them though, then it's obviously not going to make any difference.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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But, if such things aren't being taken into account by the module, and you're completely against changing how you run it... then I'm not sure what kind of answer you're looking for? Not to sound snarky, I promise, but there's been some good suggestions of how to counter such tactics of the party. If you're not going to use them though, then it's obviously not going to make any difference.
A large portion of my post was just venting about high level play and the fact that the flying invisible party needs to be considered because, as nearly everyone has pointed out, it's a common tactic for characters in that tier. I wanted to lament the fact that my campaign has changed from D&D to flying magic assassins and that, just as every single encounter now needs to be checked to see if the bad guys are going to spend the duration of the battle in a 50' deep pit, all future encounters (particularly those that are outside) need to be checked to see how (or if) the bad guys are going to be able to deal with this tactic.
And, to reiterate, I'm not particularly upset about the effectiveness of the tactic. I still got the party to go toe to toe with the barbarian, the skeletons still managed to land some shots, etc. What I hate is all of the extra rolls and brain damage the flying invisible party inflict (such as knowing where everyone in the party is, as others have pointed out).
Finally, I want to make sure I'm not reaching for GM fiat as my first tool to address my concerns. Sure, I can arbitrarily give every opponent the means to overcome invisibility and flight, but I don't think that's fair to my players and I prefer to stick to the module text as much as possible. I wanted to see if there were rules or easy tactics that a foe such as a barbarian could use to overcome the flying/invisible party. Little things like the fact that a climb check in a corner has a -5 modifier to the DC have been helpful for other aspects of the question, and I thought maybe there would be more comments of that nature. Not too long ago, I was worried that magic circle against evil would make a dungeon with outsiders stupidly easy. When I posted that question here, a kind sould reminded me that the spell only works against summoned outsiders, not native outsiders or called outsiders. Sometimes, the answer to these questions is that easy. Sometimes, as here, it's not.
That's the overly long, unnecessarily detailed answer to the question. This thread has had a great deal of value, and I appreciate most of the ideas and suggestions.
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Can people please quit recommending potions of see invisibility, they dont exist see invisibility is a personal only spell and is not eligible to be a potion barring GM fiat.Perhaps if you pointed out where this rule is people would listen? I have yet to find it myself.
I saw that under Potions it says "A potion or oil can be used only once. It can duplicate the effect of a spell of up to 3rd level that has a casting time of less than 1 minute and targets one or more creatures or objects."
But aren't "you" one or more creatures or objects?
Two 8th level clerics? Then you're not using them well.
That barbarian could be benefitting from freedom of Movement or Air Walk for 80 minutes, Greater Magic Weapon for eight hours, or defenses like Spell Immunity or Imbue with Spell Ability. He literally could have been flying himself and immune to invisibility. And protected from all kinds on energy, all day long. And air walk allows him to use his extra barbarian speed too.
That doesn't even count longer level options like Unhallow and Lesser Planar Ally. Summon up a lookout, shouldn't be too hard. Salt Mephits even get glitterdust. That's easily within the budget.
So, you can do a LOT more with the tools you have.
Finally, I want to make sure I'm not reaching for GM fiat as my first tool to address my concerns. Sure, I can arbitrarily give every opponent the means to overcome invisibility and flight, but I don't think that's fair to my players and I prefer to stick to the module text as much as possible.
I think the point some people have made is that, in such a case, it does make sense for enemies to have a means of overcoming those kinds of tactics. Once it becomes easily usable by the party, it also becomes a perfectly common tactic in any other situation, and one which a 13th level Barbarian should probably have had to deal with before. Of course, the clerics might have had better ways of dealing with it, and the Barb didn't. If that was the case, it also seems to make sense that they wouldn't have split up in the first place.
Then again, there's always the possibility that the Barb just didn't think about it, and paid the price. The party is well within rights to make mistakes that get them killed, so I suppose the BBEG's can too. Guess it's just something he should have thought about :P
Also, I can definitely understand the added confusion of keeping track of such things. That's an unfortunate side effect of high-level play, without a doubt.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I think the point some people have made is that, in such a case, it does make sense for enemies to have a means of overcoming those kinds of tactics. Once it becomes easily usable by the party, it also becomes a perfectly common tactic in any other situation, and one which a 13th level Barbarian should probably have had to deal with before. Of course, the clerics might have had better ways of dealing with it, and the Barb didn't. If that was the case, it also seems to make sense that they wouldn't have split up in the first place.Then again, there's always the possibility that the Barb just didn't think about it, and paid the price. The party is well within rights to make mistakes that get them killed, so I suppose the BBEG's can too. Guess it's just something he should have thought about :P
FWIW, the clerics guided the barbarian to the dungeon, but didn't enter because, IIRC, finding the sword was a test to prove the barbarian was worthy of using it. I don't think they expected to be killed in the first room of the dungeon while the barbarian was still inside. They figured that the barbarian would go through the dungeon, bring back the sword, and then everyone would have a gay old time. What they didn't expect was that a handful of powerful adventurers would show up and go on a killing spree at that particular time.
Invisibility is an illusion (glamer). Undead are immune to phantasms and patterns. If undead were (arguably) immune to invisibility, I think the flame wars on that topic would be sufficiently warm and bright to light the East Coast.
So Paizo should change the rule then and help end our dependence on big oil!
Which part of they were left behind at an earlier section of the dungeon and killed prior to the party encountering the barbarian did you not understand?
The part where spells that last for days or even weeks were not used days or weeks ago.
If 8th level casters are thinking about starting to cast spells when the PCs appear, they've already lost.
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It can duplicate the effect of a spell of up to 3rd level that has a casting time of less than 1 minute and targets one or more creatures or objects.
This means that the potion has to be a spell that can be cast on another person. See Invisibility SHOULD be this, but is not, due to 3.5 legacy writing. Personally, this is right up there with "Everyone with a BAB of +3 has Step Up as a free feat." on my house rules, but it's not actually RAW.
This is why there aren't Potions of Shield, Potions of Lead Blades or Potions of Gravity Bow.
Sebastian, I'm paraphrasing your original venting as this:
"Are there any reasonable ways to deal with the Invisible Flying Party that don't turn into nightmares of escalation or record keeping?"
I have a very very simple house rule.
No character may have more than one individually targeted "buff" spell on them at a time. The game works beautifully when players have to choose which buff to accept. Every character has Their Special Sauce Schtick and gets to Be Awesome. Rather than Every Player Has 17 Buffs and the combats are snoozefests.
It is even more thematic to the kinds of stories this sort of game is based off of.
This also makes the communal and mass versions of spells much more appealing.
If you don't want to make it a fiat ruling, do this:
A spellcaster who casts a spell has to make a concentration check under adverse conditions. The following is considered an adverse condition:
Keeping other spells working.
The concentration check is equal to 10+(SUM: Spell Levels of all active spells).
So, for your party of flying invisible murder-hobos:
4x Fly = 12. 4x Greater Invisibility = 16.
Casting the first fly spell has no penalty
Casting the second fly spell requires a concentration check at 13. Trivial.
Casting the third fly spell requires a concentration check at 16. Probably easy.
Casting the fourth fly spell requires a concentration check of 19.
Casting the first greater invisibility spell (if fly is maintained) is 23 - this is getting into the realm where even an 11th level caster starts running into problem.
Casting the second greater invisibility spell is 27
Casting the third greater invisibility spell is 31.
Casting the fourth greater invisibility spell is a DC 35 concentration check...
My favorite way of screwing up teleporters is with Silent Image.
You have Bloody Skeletons. One of them might have been a level 1 Sorcerer before you improved him with your sword.
Might he still know how to cast Silent Image? It doesn't take a terribly high caster level to make a Silent Image of a room to look like the LIKELY room that the teleporting party will come back to...and as he's undead, he doesn't A) sleep or B) get bored. So the duration is effectively "Until I put him onto another task."
All kinds of fun can be had with that.
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Adding, not every battle has to be one that leaves the party at death's door. One additional battle for my party, which is playing the same module and not too far ahead, is how to deal with this artifact sword that other bloodthirsty and ambitious barbarian chiefs will want now that the tomb's guardians are all gone. It's a challenge no amount of invisibility or buff spells will solve.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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No character may have more than one individually targeted "buff" spell on them at a time. The game works beautifully when players have to choose which buff to accept. Every character has Their Special Sauce Schtick and gets to Be Awesome. Rather than Every Player Has 17 Buffs and the combats are snoozefests.
I like this - elegant and simple. If there were ever to be a Pathfinder 2e (or Advanced Pathfinder or whatever), and they wanted to address buffs and magic item christmas trees, this would be an excellent pond in which to fish for such solutions.
It will probably need to have a specific exclusion for hour/level spells, so a wizard doesn't have to choose between Mage Armor and Shield at low levels. Or maybe you're happy with that. :)
It's the hour/level spells that make the concentration check solution more appealing to me...but it's not as record-keeping free.
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If all you wanted was to vent, The Advice board wasn't the best choice to post this.
And, sorry to say this, but, if you are unwilling to improvise, you should probably quit DM/GM'ing as it kinda require a lot of improvisation.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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It will probably need to have a specific exclusion for hour/level spells, so a wizard doesn't have to choose between Mage Armor and Shield at low levels. Or maybe you're happy with that. :)
It's the hour/level spells that make the concentration check solution more appealing to me...but it's not as record-keeping free.
I like the Concentration version too, but it adds in extra bookkeeping. Still, reminds me of my favorite magic system, Ars Magica.
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I don't know if I'd give all NPCs ways to deal with PC spells ect. If a PC builds their character to be a certain way,you countering their abilities in every scenario is just lame.
Instead, slowly increase the CR for each encounter. Start by adding one. If that's still too easy then increase it. This way,not only will the game become more difficult, but you're rewarding the PC's for building an effective party and excercising your creativity. Who doesn't want to walk away from an AP saying they were so awesome the GM had to boost the CR by 3 just to make it interesting?
E6 doesn't really let him run APs - it shifts the problem into the other direction rather quickly.
The problem is a combinatorial explosion of (especially spellcaster) capabilities without any downside to it.
Early in the game, having a buff is pretty cool. By the time you're at 10th level, you should...
1) Expect most characters to have Heroism up most of the time if your Sorcerer knows it. At 10 minutes/level and 3rd level, spending 9,000 GP to have 3 Rods of Extend Spell to make it a 3.5 hour long spell JUST IN CASE is trivial.
2) Expect the party to be Hasted in most fights of significant importance.
3) Expect Flying Invisible Party.
Basically, there are spells that are I Win Buttons, and by the time you're an 11th level Sorcerer, you have enough spells per day that the I Win Button is the path of least resistance.
D&D 4e tried to fix this. There was a market rejection in a lot of ways - which is why we have Pathfinder.
That doesn't mean there's nothing wrong with PF...
But characters in PF at 10th level are walking christmas trees that will stun anyone who uses Detect Magic within 30' of them from the sheer unmitigated awesomesauce that they radiate...and yet encounters are often written as homages to gritty sword-and-sorcery fantasy (this one definitely is!) because they're atmospheric and thematic...and utterly unlikely if you assume that magic is as common as PF makes it out to be.
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The part where spells that last for days or even weeks were not used days or weeks ago.If 8th level casters are thinking about starting to cast spells when the PCs appear, they've already lost.
This raises a problem I've always had with NPCs. They aren't psychic (Well most aren't)and this isn't a video game. Baldur's Gate used to equip its spell casters with a bs mechanic called 'tattoos of power' to make sure the party couldn't just waddle up and gank a spellcaster before he could put all the necessary magical bs on himself he needed to operate. Mostly because in reality, like in a well run campaign, people don't go around operating like Optimization Engineers, nor do they keep magical effects on themselves the same way a fighter puts on plate mail.
From an encounter balance mechanical perspective, yes, its perfectly reasonable to assume that they have spells on them, protecting them, making them 10 feet tall, whatever, but from a verisimilitude perspective?
If I don't expect someone to show up and try to break things, am I really going to cast armoring spells, see invisibility spells and the like? Even if I'm an 8th level cleric, am I so relentlessly paranoid that I assume airborne invisible death squads are going to swoop down on me whenever I do any activity? Lets look at this from a non-spellcaster angle to see how silly it is.
I'm a high level fighter, I've been through what I need to do to be a high level fighter. When I walk out to go to the market that day I might get randomly attacked by a demon, devil, werewolf, shoggoth (if my city has sewers), gods or whatever. Hell there might be an otyugh in the privy. I should therefore wear my armor all the time, and keep a weapon drawn when possible for easy access, even when on the privy or out dancing, eating a hamburger at Ye Old Anachronistic Restaraunt, or in my swimming pool because "I'm an 8th level fighter and should expect things like this."
"Why did you bring a wooden warhammer to my piano recital, Dad?"
"Why in case the rust monsters show up."
This is not the behavior of a sane person.
Those clerics, I presume, were conducting or overseeing a ritual. It sounds like the villainous equivalent to Yoda waiting outside of the cave when Luke went inside to face himself in Empire Strikes Back. Yoda, from recollection, didn't feel the need to activate a hundred thousand defensive and/or divinitory force powers, float above the ground and keep his lightsaber at the ready in case cortosis bedecked stealth sith assassins might show up to interfere with this necessary moment of training.
That being said, if they were there to monitor his activities, they should have at least put Status on him, but that probably wouldn't have helped them against the airborne invisible doom brigade. And if the clerics expected resistance, yes, they should have had stuff up and running (they also should have had more reinforcements.)
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am I so relentlessly paranoid that I assume airborne invisible death squads are going to swoop down on me whenever I do any activity?
I should therefore wear my armor all the time, and keep a weapon drawn when possible for easy access, even when on the privy or out dancing, eating a hamburger at Ye Old Anachronistic Restaraunt, or in my swimming pool because "I'm an 8th level fighter and should expect things like this."
"Why did you bring a wooden warhammer to my piano recital, Dad?"
"Why in case the rust monsters show up."
This is not the behavior of a sane person.
Yoda, from recollection, didn't feel the need to activate a hundred thousand defensive and/or divinitory force powers, float above the ground and keep his lightsaber at the ready in case cortosis bedecked stealth sith assassins might show up to interfere with this necessary moment of training.
that probably wouldn't have helped them against the airborne invisible doom brigade.
Dear Sir,
I not only agree, but I applaud your style of communication. Welcome aboard and please continue posting. (I LOL'd.)
-Skeld
"Why did you bring a wooden warhammer to my piano recital, Dad?"
"Why in case the rust monsters show up."
This is not the behavior of a sane person.
Oh? Man. *googles "therapist"*
In my campaigns PCs roaming around the city in full combat regalia will be approached by guards to inform them that they should consider dressing like citizens. Usually that's enough to get the PCs to remove plate armor and stop wandering around with daggers in each hand.
Most of the important social events would not allow a person to attend in full combat gear. It's just not appropriate.
That does not mean that combat never happens in such situations. It can happen. Most of my players understand that it is in their best interest to have a means to quickly gear up if necessary. There are ways to accomplish this while still dressing appropriately in public.
On the other hand, when the party is adventuring, they do tend to wear their armor most of the time. There are rules to manage wearing heavy plate armor, but that rarely comes into play. Unless they decide to SLEEP in their armor. That will get my attention as a GM.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I ran a thieves guild campaign years ago, and, consistent with the genre, I informed the PCs that they weren't legally allowed to wear medium or better armor or carry visible weapons unless they were a noble, chartered adventuring group, or otherwise had some type of legal authority. The campaign was a lot of fun, and the PCs even employed some classic mobster moves, such as having one party member carry the greatswords and other large weapons when performing a hit.
Good stuff.