Here's a fine place!
Welcome to the boards.
shoot =)
This is a good section if it is for advice on builds and such. If it is a rules based question... well there is a Forum for that.
So shoot.
EDIT: Ninja'd x2
EDIT.2: Welcome to the Forum BTW
Well come to the boards and this is the perfect spot for your questions so start asking.
Crafting/Profession is mainly for downtime.
You would need Crossbow as you would suffer a damage penalty for the low STR.
Honestly you need to look at the Scimitar and Dervish Dancer feat unfortunately it isn't Core.
and maybe you ought to talk to your GM about rerolling the stats.
Crafting gives you something to do with downtime.
Lingering Melody is from 3.5 and lets you stop singing...your song's effects continue another 3 rounds. Obviously that is not an option for you.
With a 3 str you literally cannot carry anything heavier then clothing, a dagger and a pouch, and maybe a flute. You're going to need to invest in a Str buffer.
If you're playing a bard, you will have to be spell support for everyone else. Right now, you're doing what, -4 damage a swing? You aren't going to hurt anything you swing at. So you're going to have to focus on spells, singing, and tossing alchemical items.
Get a small bag of holding as soon as you can, and just stock it with Liquid Ice and Alchemist Fire. If you have nothing else to do, throw them. The damage they do is not based on Str, it's just energy damage.
Your ranged attacks will be penalized by your Str.
seriously, you should have just bitten the bullet and become a sorceror. At least then you've have some damaging ranged attacks.
In combat, you're either going to be casting a buff spell/heal, or fighting defensively while doing Aid ANother Actions (touch attacks) to give your pals bonuses to hit while getting into position to flank with them, or throwing alchemical vials around.
There are some offensive bardic spells, but they are later in levels.
Basically, stay out of combat and don't think about doing weapon damage. You aren't going to do any damage, let others fight for you, buff them up, heal them, and help them out. Flanking for a fighter and Aid Another for +2 to hit means he just got his Power Attack for free. Make use of it.
===Aelryinth
@Aelryinth: Pathfinder has a feat called Lingering Performance.
is it in core? It works different from 3.5 as I recall.
Crossbow is too heavy for him to carry. 3 Str, remember? And a small xbow doing 1-6 dmg? Why bother?
==Aelryinth
Weapon finesse does nothing for your DAMAGE.
It only affects your roll TO HIT. With a 3 Str, you are at -4 on melee damage.
So you might be level 2 with +6 to hit with Weapon Finesse 17 Dex, Masterwork small rapier (weight!), small size and +1 BAB, but you are doing d4-4 dmg per hit...min 1 pt, so, 1 pt a thrust.
If you want Dex to damage...you're talking specific feats (Dervish Dancer) or the Agile weapon property, which you can't afford until you can afford a +2 weapon.
So, you MUST rely on stuff that doesn't rely on Strength to do damage. A crossbow would be one way, but probably blows your carrying capability away.
==Aelryinth
Craft(Alchemy) will work wonderful. And Weapon Finesse only allows you to use DEX to hit not for damage.
EDIT: Ninja'd again!
@KHShadowrunner: What is the rest of the party?
I would consider asking the DM if he will give you a small boost to the strength, or let you change race so you don't take the penalty from the halfling.
Melee can still be viable for you, with the weapon finesse stuff. I think there is a way to get dex to damage(anyone care to jog the memory on it?)
Two weapon fighting is feat intensive, but can produce nice results. You don't want to 'save' feats for later. Those critical hit feats are intended for higher levels.
This build could become complicated, you might want to consider sticking with the classes in the beginner's box for now, and move onto others when your group is more comfortable with the rules.
He is locked into CRB. That means no Dervish Dance.
Core only means no Agile weapon, either. he's mucked.
==Aelryinth
I personally would try and see if you could get a redo on stats. Having a 3 is very bad, anything with strength draining effects is gonna have a field day with you.
But this is something to bring up with you DM. I have used craft and profession to gain insight into certain situations.
For example, my ranger had profession engineer. Which i used to set up a mechanical trap, and to repair catapults for a siege event.
Redo is probably necessary. Maybe make it to where this character retires and his friend/brother/father's-brother's-nephew's-cousin's-former-roommate takes his place.
Martin Kauffman 530 has made a very good point. Hmm your first pick for Magic Items should be Muleback Cords.
Actually using Core only that is a pretty good party if they are built fairly well...
You and Ranger both can get a Wand of CLW/CMW to use to heal. The Monk and Ranger can be switch hitters meaning they can handle most of the combat.
You might see if you can use a wand of Bull's Strength to boost your Strength. I can't remember if a Bard can use it or not.
Heck, even if you ask the GM for a re-roll on that one stat. One touch from a Shadow and you're toast, man. And trust me...it is ridiculously easy for a shadow to get a touch off on a character (maybe not a monk, but still...)
It might not help too much, but keep in mind that the weight of the equipment in the Core Rulebook are all for medium sized items (made for medium sized PCs). Whenever you get equipment for a small sized character, such as your halfling, the weight for it will be half the listed amount. Core Rulebook pg. 144 under weight explains it for weapons, pg. 150 for armor, and I'm assuming that many of the other adventuring items could weigh half as much as well. For example, I would imagine that a halflings clothing weighs half as much as the clothing of a medium sized creature. On the other hand 50' of hemp rope is 50' of hemp rope, no matter the size of the creature carring it.
It's your GMs call, but I would never allow a char with a stat below 5.
I mean, 3 strength? You will be over HEAVY encumberance (e.g. unable to move) at 31 lbs and you start taking penalties for medium encumberance at 11 lbs. Lets say your char wears an explorers outfit and a padded armor (lightest armor in the crb). Now he wants to grab a light crossbow. Oh, stop. That would already put him on 11 lbs and into medium encumberance...
You are talking about a guy here who couldn't wear sturdy clothing, a melee weapon and carry food and water for himself for 3 days without being weighted down. IMHO thats just plain silly.
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Always great to see someone else interested in playing a bard. Looking for advice to a beginner on two issues:
I just got my Pathfinder Society card number and I'm having trouble creating and registering a character online. I've submitted several times, but the site continues to state I have no registered characters. Not sure what to do.
I'd like to create a Ranger/Bard, 16 STR, 15 CHA, 12 in all others at Level 1. I've read Treantmonk's guides and am trying to create a character with elements of the Ranger switch-hitter and the melee Bard. Not a "tank," but a guy who casts a spell, inspires courage, and then wades into combat to help the companion who needs it most. Was thinking about a half-elf selecting Ancestral Arms (Elven Curve Blade proficiency) instead of Adaptability racial trait and Anatomist or Reactionary combat trait. Would appreciate anyone's thoughts on race, skills, feats, traits selection and character level progression (and which of the two classes to start with).
No, the concept of the halfling bard can be fun, with buffs, spellcasting and party face - options. A strength of 5 would not be so much better damage-wise, but it would at least help your carrying capacity a bit.
The values can be found here.
I know this is supposed to be core only, but MAYBE you can get your GM to allow the sandman bard or just negotiate a way to get a sneak attack progression via homebrew. Sneak attack is the only way for a character with so little strength to be abled to do any decent melee damage that comes to my mind.
Edit: linkyfied links
... But they insisted that I play a bard ...
I have a bit of a problem with this. To tell a brand new player that they have to play a bard and then not give help on the build is pretty lame.
However, given that it has already happened.
1) See if you can get the GM to let you rebuild with reasonable rolls.
2) Carry the halfling sized dagger (d3 damage) but try to never use it.
3) Concentrate on your spells and other abilities.
4) Buy a trained riding dog. Even if you don't ride it and just have it follow you around, it can carry stuff for you.
You can still contribute to the group, but you can't carry very much gear. So you won't have as good of AC. No weapons that will be worth while for a long time. But scrolls and a few wands don't weigh much. You will be at severe risk from some undead and poisons that target strength.
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If I did a multiclass rogue? I'm no longer really concerned about damage, though I should be in a 3 PC campaign. I'm worried about how little 3 (or 5) really is and how fast I would be completely out of commission.
I'm not going to give up, the DM is either fairly new or being ridiculously easy-going and lucky with me. I already need to discuss that our last session was completely inaccurate because I misunderstood Weapon finnesse, but now a lot of other things as well.
I guess I'm just worried that: to overcome what situation I've managed to dance and sing myself into, I have to use +STR items (which I haven't even begun to look up, but) and they need to be permanent or semi-permanent. To do this I'm trying to find out if we're talking about losing out on developing my character at all, and bringing my character from sub-level to onlevel versus level to progression (if i only focus on strength, there's a whole ton of other stuff that would need to go up as my character levels).
If there's no way to circumvent that efficiently, I might as well give it my gusto, and accept fate when it deals a devilish blow (or in this case, maybe a soft touch).
@Lawrence
I'm almost completely new, so I'm of no help, but what benefits does Ranger provide over say.. fighter or any other melee-bound (monk, rogue, etc)?
At least you have the strength to pull it off :), I'd figure ranger would want a higher dex.
Thanks for responding. I have always loved both the ranger and bard classes, not just for their combat skills, but their other abilities and class features as applied to the broader aspects of role-playing. I'd welcome advice from anyone, including on how to effectively create such a character and register him online with the Pathfinder Society.
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1. As others have said, having a 3 on strength is realy bad. Generally the game is not designed for PCs to have such low stats. If I were in your shoes, I'd ask for a re-roll on that one, and if I were your GM I would allow you to have one.
2. So, what should you do if you DON'T reroll? Well, if I were you, I would NOT multiclass into Rogue. I would focus on Bard, and concentrate on buffing your party with Music and casting spells. Bards have a nice list of "save-or-suck" spells that can take out enemies just as thoroughly as shooting them.
For level 1 spells: Charm Person, Grease, and Sleep are really good. If you want to fight, cast Summon Monster 1 and let your monster do your fighting for you. :)
For level 2 spells (you'll get them when you're level 4): Hold Person and Suggestion. Get Summon Monster II. The Summon spells get progressively WAY better as you increase in caster level.
You'll clobber enemies with low Will saves. Your party mates can clobber enemies with low armor. That should cover most things, but you'l need to watch out for Undead creatures, who will be immune to your mind-affecting spells.
And as others said, pick up a wand of Cure Light Wounds. You don't have to actually know the spell to use the wand. A good strategy for a small party like yours: try to heal your party members up to full hit points outside of combat. That way, during combat you can spend your actions helping to win rather than healing as much.
The good news is I had CLW and Sleep from lvl 1 :), lots of people seem to think that sleep isn't so great but, whatever. It already proved useful in my books. I just picked up Grease too as I hear you can really start to have some fun with it.
Going to drop CLW when I can (and when I have a wand or scroll or something that will let me cast it).
How do I determine how much a riding dog (or a dog, though after looking it up I could do a riding as they're not afraid) can carry if I use a pack sattle? There's no real details of it in the book :( (that i could find)
From the core rules section on carrying capacity:
"Quadrupeds can carry heavier loads than bipeds can. Multiply the values corresponding to the creature's Strength score from Table: Carrying Capacity by the appropriate modifier, as follows: Fine ×1/4, Diminutive ×1/2, Tiny ×3/4, Small ×1, Medium ×1-1/2, Large ×3, Huge ×6, Gargantuan ×12, Colossal ×24."Take the normal carrying capacity table for the riding dogs strength score and multiply the normal capacity by 1.5 (riding dogs are medium in size).
A riding dog has a 15 strength, which is 66lbs in the carrying capacity chart. 66*1.5 is 99lbs. A light load for a riding dog INCLUDING the rider and any gear or armor it is carrying/wearing is 99lbs. Luckily halflings tend to be light ;).
I'd encourage you to stay with this character, actually. Having such a low Str, but phenomenal Dex and Cha, can make for a really interesting character. Don't worry about damage at all, and focus on the bard's other strengths (skills, buffing, incapacitating enemies). Wands and scrolls will greatly increase your spell versatility. Get some useful, versatile spells that favor creativity, like unseen servant, prestidigitation, mage hand, illusions, message, etc. that can allow you to influence your environment/encounters and help your allies. For "combat" spells that have more uses, animate rope is excellent in addition to grease. A riding dog is definitely the way to go for carrying your extra stuff--I do the same thing with my low-Str gnome alchemist.
Ultimately, roleplaying is about having fun. If you can have fun with this character, you "win" regardless of how many orcs he takes down in combat!
Is your GM not allowing you to switch your 5 to another stat? It sucks for you to start a whole campaign with this character and be punished for not knowing all the rule interactions at the time.
I think it's fair to give some leeway when it's this early and it was an honest mistake that you regret.
What isn't a Native Bard Spell?
BTW: Muleback Cords are in the Core Rulebook or Advanced Player's Guide.
@Trinite: Unless you deal with someone like me who loves the horde of weak little minions.
40 Grindylows 0_o... I was thinking 14 Goblins led by a Chieftain & Shaman.
Hmm, one option is to look into materials and such that reduce the weight of items.