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How does one play a character like this:
STR 16
DEX 10
CON 14
INT 9
WIS 7
CHA 14
Guide to the build I'm using it with
One of my biggest roleplaying hangups is I have a fear of playing a character with an ability score lower than 10, as 1, I feel like to have a character that has most of the stuff I want I need to have lots of skill points, and most builds I see dump Intelligence if they're not an INT-based caster. Second, this spread seems to indicate the character is really dumb. How can someone that dumb be a knight-in-shining armor figure who's articulate and calm and strives to offer forgiveness to people, but unafraid to purge evil with sword and flame if there's no other option.
I want to use builds so I have a template for how the character grows and functions. When I'm flying blind I'm constantly worrying the character is weak or that I've taken useless character options. But the majority of the builds I find seem to ignore anything but combat functionality, and thus we end up with PCs that can handle encounters with ease and work well with the party on a mechanical level, but are, for the most part, brain-dead and make roleplaying and social encounters hopeless.
First his Int is almost at normal (10) so that does not mean you need to play him as "really dumb". Rather maybe just treat him as underducated. Maybe he can't read for example. Give him a slightly simpler way of seeing the world.
Wisdom covers things like willpower and common sense, so again this does not mean you need to play him like he is "really dumb". Rather maybe he is just weak willed. Can't resist the sweets or maybe he acts on impulse first. Maybe he misses things, but once they are pointed out to him he is on it. Allow him to miss some social cues but maybe he is so nice folks do not react badly. Forrest Gump like.
I imagine this set of stats to be like my one friend. He is a good soul but sometimes he just does not think through the complete situation before he acts. But he would do anything for his friends and does fully believe his religion. People like him and do not think he is dumb, but I hear many folks say he is impulsive and at times rash.
The short answer (I think) is:
Any way you want to.
Ability scores are mechanical tools that can be used as roleplaying guidelines - but it's up to YOU to decide what those score mean in rp terms.
And before I say anything else, let me ask you this: Would you consider your character to be both "really dumb" as well as incredibly strong? Because a -2 penalty one way should be roughly the inverse equivalent of a +2 bonus the other way (in other words, unless you consider a 14 Str "really strong," then a 7 Wis or 9 Int is not "really dumb").
Another thing to mention: trust yourself, rp-wise. A lot of people are afraid to play "dumb" characters because they think that limits them (can't figure out puzzles, make strategies, etc) but those are not only artificially imposed handicaps (an experienced warrior knows how to plan a battle, regardless of his int), but they overlook a lot of roleplaying fun.
For example: I've been playing a low-int Barbarian recently, and I've been having a great time with it. We're in the Savage Tide AP, and my character is from a relatively primitive group of once-great people (Olmans). Since they have a limited understanding of technology, my character is amazed by the advanced sailing ships of the PCs, and he is absolutely convinced that they are all animated by creatures of the spirit world. As such, he treats the party flagship as a special pet; he spends a lot of time caring for her maintenance and appearance, and gets REALLY angry when enemies damage her. He also has an archaic way of speaking, so instead of calling people by their names, he refers to other party members by descriptive kennings - the party illusionist is "Shadow Weaver," the cleric of the Travel Domain who has sailed all over the world is "Wave Strider" etc.
The point is: pick one or two fun implications of those scores, and flesh them out with some interesting mannerisms.
On the matter of skill points: there's always the favored class bonus, for one thing, and for another, someone who is only mediocre at a skill can be just as interesting as someone who is good at it. Imagine if your character fancied himself a chef, despite a general lack of talent at it. Think how much fun could be had rping your character's excitement over a new recipe (Troglodyte Stew, maybe) in contrast with the rest of the party's barely-contained revulsion at your meals. Or maybe your character wants to be a musician, but just doesn't have the knack - he could always be singing atrocious songs, which the party tries to suffer graciously, always looking for polite excuses to shut him up ("Um, this is the Valley of Echoes. Best not sing here, lest we call upon us a terrible curse").
But just to spitball on some rping types based on these scores:
1) This guy is a good-natured high school jock. He's popular because he has an easy way with people, but book-learning doesn't come easily to him (e.g. every time a PC/NPC mentions a far-off location or unusual creature, this guy might get a confused look or pretend (unsuccessfully) to know where/what that is). His low Wis might be reflected by a naive/trusting nature - he probably doesn't detect sarcasm very well, and has a hard time with subtlety. This is not the character who understands the scheme-within-a-scheme being pulled off by the BBEG. That said, he makes other people feel at ease; he probably asks others lots of questions about themselves (always flattering) and expresses a simple (maybe naive, but nonetheless touching/inspiring) confidence in himself, his friends, and the forces of good.
This guy does not have a complex worldview. There are good guys, and there are bad guys. The good guys beat up the bad guys, because that's what the right thing to do is.
2) This guy is an old-fashioned working-class hero. He grew up in humble circumstances - he had no opportunity to get a real education, and he generally accepts the world as he sees it, without acknowledging the possibility of different perspectives. He relies on his own personal experience and home-spun wisdom (much of which might be questionable at best). Whenever someone quotes some scholar or devious idea to him, he counters with a folksy (but charming) saying that he got from his grandfather *(or any colorful member of the family - this is a fun place to explore in rp, as you can devise all kinds of fun sayings/stories)*. Most people respect him because he shoots straight with everyone else - he's always straight to the point, and doesn't sugar-coat anything. He lives humbly, which inspires others, and he's quick to share his wealth, even for non-critical things (he's the first to buy drinks at the tavern, and is more than willing to pass up a +1 sword in favor of donating to the local orphanage).
3) This guy has always had a deep, if simple, faith. He sees the miraculous in everything - the sunrise, a butterfly lighting on a flower, even a child's laughter. He's not good at quoting scripture chapter and verse, but his primary store of knowledge is holy texts, and he adheres to tenets of the church wholeheartedly and uncritically. He may (believe that he) experience(s) genuine visions sent by his deity (though these are often vague, leading to simplistic interpretations). He considers alternate philosophies/worldviews to be the product of perversion or sophistry, and refuses to engage them in any meaningful conversation. Despite this, he is always willing to try and show others "the way." He probably has a special litany or two that he likes to recite in combat or other difficult circumstances.
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I agree with daniel. His int is only slightly below normal, and he's very social and dashing. He's like a happy-go lucky frat-boy. His test scores never soar, but he brought his teacher an apple and a big smile.
This character should be a lot of fun to play.
And there are so many options in that Guild-build with race/class and such, that you can find many different ways to tweek him.
Have fun!!!
You probably know a bunch of Int 9 people in real life. You can adopt a trait to for your character to reflect a below average intelligence, but don't make the mistake of overdoing it. The wisdom of 7 I think you could have a little more fun with. The people who know your character know that you are more than a little foolish. Sometimes making a bad decision in character can lead to way more interesting game sessions. Don't use it as an excuse to screw over your party members though. Thats unforgivable to some.
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So...The Tick then?
It's for Curse of the Crimson Throne, with the Unhappy Childhood (Religious) trait, if that context helps...
I think we gamers overvalue the Int. Stat.
Gamers tend to be brighter than their typical peer group ( or at least we like to think so). And put too much stock in general knowledge. More than likely some of the less than average folks we deal with in real life have a better fundamental understanding of the world than the typical "god wizard" would at level 1. Public School does a good job of explaining why the sky is blue, how plants breath and where rain comes from.
For RP purposes a 9 Int. Puts a character on par with almost everyone they encounter, city guards, the farrier, the cobbler, the limners, even most merchants.
My boss, in the real world, is wildly successful, and freely admits that he is neither worldly nor particularly talented in a wide range of fields. But he's really good at one thing, and he makes buckets of money as a result. (He's a charming bastard though.) His charisma would be stellar, except he's not a great personel manager. Go figure.
A WIS of 7, could mean he's gullible (he is still trying to win at 3 Card Monty) or he invariably falls for the bad girl every single time. He could struggle with alcoholism or drug addiction or maybe he's a compulsive gambler. He could just be naive and steadfastly refuse to believe that other people aren't inherently good (or bad). Or maybe he has no idea when to shut up and listen.
I try really hard not to get hung up on stats. I'll throw a character flaw into even a trip 16 mental stats character; make em vain or arrogant or some such. Most of the really smart people I know suffer from some such ailment even though they'd never admit it.
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If 9 is supposed to be average, then why is it a penalty? A penalty indicates a deficiency. That when you try to use that stat, you actually are more likely to fail than succeed.
I suppose part of the problem is that I was drawing inspiration for the character from an unattainable ideal, Sir Galahad, to be specific.
Galahad would be Monty Haul point buy. Like 25 or 30 points.
I don't know about deficient.
I'm clumsy, or at least my wife says I am. I'm still a decent golfer and pretty good shot with a hand gun. I can brain you with a frisbee at 40 feet everytime. I can walk and chew gum at the same time. But I'll break stuff when I'm not paying attention. I couldn't juggle if my life depended on it, and I've tried for years to learn how.
I'm a 9 DEX.
I might be deficient but it's not a major impediment on my quality of life. I'm just not agile and as I get older it gets worse.
These stats would more or less peg the general public opinion of Sylvester Stallone, except maybe not quite as strong.
Now Stallone is probably smarter than that (he WROTE "Rocky" for example), but going by public opinion, that would be a fair guide how to play this guy. So think of Sylvester Stallone playing Galahad in an adventure flick. With explosions.
Lol. Yeah AD has it.
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These stats would more or less peg the general public opinion of Sylvester Stallone, except maybe not quite as strong.
Now Stallone is probably smarter than that (he WROTE "Rocky" for example), but going by public opinion, that would be a fair guide how to play this guy. So think of Sylvester Stallone playing Galahad in an adventure flick. With explosions.
That's gonna be a problem. I haven't seen any of Sylvester Stallone's movies. I'm just trying to find a way to get as close to an Arthurian knight as I can.
I always like characters that have a flaw or two, whether in books, games, or movies. Someone that is good at everything is boring and, to me at least, unrelateable.
For example, if you have read the belgariad by david eddings, i would see those stats easily fitting sir mandorallen. Not the sharpest hammer in the bag and impulsive certainly. Yet everyone loves him because he will throw himself in danger to protect his friends life or honor at the drop of a hat. His word and loyalty are always dependable.
Try playing him as someone who thinks he is invincible, and maybe is, because he just cant wrap his head around the concept that he isnt.
Just going to point out that "average" is still pretty dumb :p
And in any event, when the usual system that's used has a lowest possible score of 7... yea, 7 is pretty dumb.
If 9 is supposed to be average, then why is it a penalty? A penalty indicates a deficiency. That when you try to use that stat, you actually are more likely to fail than succeed.
10 is the average. 9 is just 1 pip below the average. 9 does not = druling empty head. 9 just means slightly below average. Not "real dumb" though.
I agree with the post above, don't over do it. Just have fun with it.
Another thing to consider, he can actually be educated. He just can't recall relevant info when necessary.
"hey, do you know which house has 2 lions for a sigil?"
"no, but I know that the first lions ever used on a banner were actually done in the color of silver, not gold, which is what most people assume."
"that doesn't help."
"the background was green."
Not exactly what I would use for a knight type, but hopefully helpful in how a stat can be played to seem higher, but with an essential flaw.
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I always like characters that have a flaw or two, whether in books, games, or movies. Someone that is good at everything is boring and, to me at least, unrelateable.
For example, if you have read the belgariad by david eddings, i would see those stats easily fitting sir mandorallen. Not the sharpest hammer in the bag and impulsive certainly. Yet everyone loves him because he will throw himself in danger to protect his friends life or honor at the drop of a hat. His word and loyalty are always dependable.
Try playing him as someone who thinks he is invincible, and maybe is, because he just cant wrap his head around the concept that he isnt.
I certainly want him to be flawed, and the "thinks he's invincible" bit certainly fits with the idea of him being essentially an HP battery for the party. I'm just really, really afraid of failing skill checks. I feel like I can't trust the rest of the party to think to make certain checks, and thus we miss out on side-quests or plot-critical details in the Adventure Path. I'm the kind of guy who tries to take as many skills as possible in games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age so I see the most content the game has to offer. Obsessive-completionist, or hundred-percenter you might call me.
The 9 INT is not a problem, and even the 7 WIS is not that bad. I would look at this character as someone without a formal education so is a little ignorant. For the WIS play him as someone who is so honest he has a hard time believing other people lie. He does not think outside the box but within his area of comfort he is competent.
You mentioned you are trying to play the knight in shining armor these stats are perfect for that. When it comes to basic combat tactics he will be able to quote you chapter and verse. He may not always understand why he does things this way but will have been trained to do it anyways. Where he will have some trouble is with unusual tactics.
He has good manners and sees the best in everyone so he is well liked. Physically he is a pretty big muscular guy that always seems happy so people respond well to him. He also has the knack for saying the right thing and always has a joke ready to lighten people up. His jokes are never mean or cruel and often about himself.
He is also always willing to help someone and people know it so he has a good reputation.
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I'm a 9 DEX.
I might be deficient but it's not a major impediment on my quality of life. I'm just not agile and as I get older it gets worse.
That's what I think of a 9 stat. It's below average, but only slightly. It's not going to significantly affect how the character functions, and training will overcome the deficit in many situations.
The 7 wis is a bit more noticeable. For an Arthurian knight, I'd play it as idealistic, naive, gullible, overconfident. The type to say "We must assist this fair maiden! Of course it's not a trap, and even if it was we'd be able to defeat the opponent through strength of arms!" He might also act on impulse in matters of honour.
I feel like I can't trust the rest of the party to think to make certain checks, and thus we miss out on side-quests or plot-critical details in the Adventure Path. I'm the kind of guy who tries to take as many skills as possible in games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age so I see the most content the game has to offer. Obsessive-completionist, or hundred-percenter you might call me.
I know what you mean. I get nervous playing a character with fewer than 4 skill points per level. I'd suggest talking to your fellow players to make sure that the major bases are covered, and sinking skill points into anything really important to your character or that the party is missing. Also talk to the DM about skills that might be important in the campaign terms of side quests or plot details. Knowledge(Nobility) for example can be very important or completely irrelevant depending on the campaign.
If you are worried about skill checks, pick up skill focus. It's a nice way to compensate for low ability scores.
I usually create my characters with low constitution score. I particularly think that a low-value constitution can be bypassed with high AC or high Fortitude. Good tactics in combat also reduce the amount of damage you'll take in combat.
Also, for me intelligence it's very important, and usually is high even with non-intelligence casters. High INT make the character more versatile.
There's no need for phobia in low values. Think it like a trade off. 10 is the average. Usually we're not average at all.
Don't see the low score characters as handicapped, but as specialized ones.
My first thought is roleplay his like a typical football player: high physicals, decent charisma, terrible decision-making abilities. So Terrell Owens, basically.
I feel like I can't trust the rest of the party ....
For me, this is the real issue. If you can't trust the other party members to play well, then you are not allowed to play a flawed character. You might want to spend some time asking why you do not trust them.
In any case, enjoy the character, have fun with him. If nothing else it will be a great opportunity to let go and let the others step up.
This guy would be a good-natured damned fool. He makes decisions based on gut feelings, without thinking them through. Unfortunately his intuition leads him astray frequently. That said, he's honest about it and apologises when he leads his friends astray, and tries his best to make amends.
The low Wis gives a foolish habit.
The slightly low Int doesn't let him think his way around foolish choices.
The high Cha means that he's still likable. Alternatively he could just be a bully that people fear but obey.
Could you play a low wisdom as being somewhat deaf or short-sighted (or both) as it also covers perception? Poor reading skills would affect int as well
I think most good role players over state deficiencies of low stats so it obvious that they are there. Sense no one sees your character sheet the tendency is to over state your strengths and weaknesses so its clear to others they exist. I have a huge issue with players who dump stats and then pretend the negatives don't effect how they role play your chars at all. Your not going to under play that awesome strength so why would you understate a int penalty.
9 int isn't that bad and that alone wouldn't make me play this char completely simple but when you add in the 7 wisdom which is extremely low things change. Both your prime mental stats are below average and one is very bad. Think of it this way if your not playing a race with an int penalty you shouldn't expect to have many members of society with a lower then 8 int so a 7 would mean something above and beyond is wrong with you. You need to have those effect your roleplaying in some ways that matter.
I think the problem with average stats are people over state them. A person of average intelligence especially in the frame work of the type of societies pathfinder is played in is not high. You have the int of the average uneducated commoner. If your below that it should affect you. Just how much varies from group to group but celebrate your characters strengths but also their weaknesses.
I actually prefer my paladins to have a negative wisdom. It makes it a lot easier for there to be shady people in the party; I may well just never notice.
I actually played a pally with an Int of 8 and Wis of 10. It was a lot of fun. He had the best intentions in the world, just never seemed to do anything right (except hitting things). It was great because he assumed everyone was the same way and very rarely used detect evil because he just didn't think people were inherently evil most times. There's a good amount of roleplaying fun that can be had with a build like that. He actually broke into someone's house at one point because the rogue made a bluff check to convince him that someone said come in when he knocked. Just run with it, it can be a blast.
Actually, looking at those stats, Gaston from Disneys Beauty and the Beast instantly comes to mind...maybe take leadership for a bard cohort :-)
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I usually create my characters with low constitution score. I particularly think that a low-value constitution can be bypassed with high AC or high Fortitude. Good tactics in combat also reduce the amount of damage you'll take in combat.
Also, for me intelligence it's very important, and usually is high even with non-intelligence casters. High INT make the character more versatile.
There's no need for phobia in low values. Think it like a trade off. 10 is the average. Usually we're not average at all.
Don't see the low score characters as handicapped, but as specialized ones.
The reason the CON is high in this setup (and if I really wanted to optimize, it'd be the highest score possible) is because basically this characters is about using Life Link and Shield Other so that he's damaged instead of his allies when hits are taken in combat, and then uses things like Channeling and Lay on Hands to keep himself alive. He's basically supposed to be a near-bottomless well of HP for the party.
I mean, if I really take this build as far as it will go, the character should NEVER be in front or taking damage directly himself, as that reduces the amount of HP he can sacrifice for his comrades, but that would be cowardly, and paladins aren't cowards.
As the guy who wrote the guide put it, it's basically a way to be a heal-bot without the bot part. To keep the party's HP completely topped off at all times, while still allowing some wiggle room for doing your own thing (whether that's spells or swords), so you're not bored by channeling or casting cure spells every damn round.