Very cool! Checked my folder and there it is - shiny ToN-update. I hope Gary manages to keep updates flowing.
Good to know that the cards progress as well.
im glad to see a new update :)
this is one of few ap i am looking forwards to
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For those of you interested in a Throne of Night update, Mr. McBride talks about it for a bit in his Demiplane of Gaming interview. It's an hour long but the ToN stuff is near the 30 min mark. The rest of the stuff about starting a small gaming company is pretty interesting too.
(Spoiler: the release of book 1 is "achingly close" to being released. So that's awesome!)
EDIT: Oops! That interview is actually dated 24 July... which is BEFORE the most recent Kickstarter update. Still an interesting interview just the same. :)
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As someone who has been receiving regular fortnightly updates from Kevin on the delays, I wish I wasn't affected by the way this kickstarter is being handled.
But I am.
Being told that he is busy prepping Book Two and editing Book One seems to me to be a sign of why things aren't going swimmingly. Forget Book Two we should have Book One now. By not setting hard deadlines this all smacks of procrastination, and maybe Fire Mountain Games are a victim of their previous success. If he is editing the Books himself then again that strikes me as a mistake.
No one can see all their own faults and errors.
Personally I am trying to be optimistic about the future Books but if the first one is this delayed then that cannot be good for the next five, can it?
Cheers
And I think that's great! Don't get me wrong - I have the utmost confidence Gary will deliver - in spades and top-quality. He's a straight up guy as far as I can tell and it was neither my intent, nor purpose to slander him in any way or doubt his willingness to deliver.
But the silence is hurting his business and standing - and I really hope he'll start being more communicative with updates - especially for those who backed the cards (which I didn't). People in my experience are still antsy after RC and WotA and while both projects are now in capable hands/delivered (Yay for FGG/Lou Agresta and SGG/Owen K.C. Stephens!!!), I think they left their marks. Most gamers are awesome, understanding people and as long as they're kept in the loop, all's well - even if an update says "not much new, chipping away at x" - it's silence that makes people concerned and I'd HATE a stand-up guy and extremely talented designer like Gary to suffer from a mistake that is so easily fixed.
So yeah - that are my 2 cents. Here's to ToN - it will quite probably be damn awesome and I'm glad I backed it.
This was my problem with WotW. I loved that game and I started it for my characters with enough time to reach the last book which was due out Halloween. Then the delays. No information. Delay. Lots of talk about the next project but not enough talk about the last bleeding book. In the end it was 3 months late. A game that my players LOVED, became the game they panned because every couple of weeks they would ask me if it had arrived yet and if we could jump back to their characters so they could wrap up and hit 20... It became a bit of a joke, then finally it became a massive annoyance. When the final book finally arrived no one in my group wanted to play. I don't blame them, they had moved on. What was saddest, is until the point we felt ignored, we had fallen in love with this game studio. We talked about how this was one of the best APs we had seen in a LONG time.
I really looked at Throne of Night when they began the Kickstarter, I wanted to trust them but I just couldn't. In the end they will get my money, because when the game is done... I will buy it. And I agree like Gary's previous work it will probably be top quality, but I will not leave my players hanging for months again. I've never even read the final chapter for WotW... wish I had a reason to.
When the product is finished I will buy it and I will run it and I will most likely love it. But not a drop of money till it's done.
Endzeitgeist, you end your post with you are glad you backed them. Good for you! I however, having read through the posts here, am happy I did not.
Oscar
Being an original Razor Coast preorder, I can safely say that I can wait for good stuff.
Remember : Patience is a virtue...
hmm must be close :D
Update from Facebook:
Book One of Throne of Night will be out in PDF by the end of August.
Sigh. I'm doubtful retailers will be updating their pages this afternoon, assuming they've even been provided the PDF. Willing to wait but very eager to have my paws on this and was hoping to have it for the long weekend here in the US.
Remember : Patience is a virtue...
Except in Ultima IV
Is punctuality also a virtue?
punctuality is the quality of the kings.
All I can see on the throne is ... darkness.
:D
^^
lol
Has anyone heard how the special Throne of Night event for backers held the Wednesday before Gen-Con went?
No one?
Damn it ! I wonder why my PC clock keeps on writing that it's september 12th... It can't be true since ToN isn't out yet...
Damn you Hewlett Packard and your untrustworthy internal clock.
Unless ....
We get ToNs of delay...
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Damn it ! I wonder why my PC clock keeps on writing that it's september 12th... It can't be true since ToN isn't out yet...
Damn you Hewlett Packard and your untrustworthy internal clock.
Unless ....
We get ToNs of delay...
I think both of our clocks are wrong. Or maybe we're trapped in some sort of time loop.
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Has anyone heard how the special Throne of Night event for backers held the Wednesday before Gen-Con went?It went very well (though after a day of travelling to get to Gen Con, I kept nodding off near the end), save for the fact that at almost five hours of play it was too short! My character, Ronk Gob-Lobber, didn't get to kill any goblins!
Good to hear, Alzrius. I am really hyped about this AP.
My condolences to Ronk. Maybe he will have better luck in the first module.
Hey kevin !! I can't wait for your suggestions to the AP, like Douglas Muir and others if they still stick with Gary.
One thing though: Don't you ever mention again your 162 gp teleporation ring again... (smirk and teasing ... ;o) ).
Can you see that i'm bored waiting ?
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Very interesting. I wonder if the Elemental Lord of Earth and the Moaning Diamond can be tied into this.
Also, Dudemeister's idea of linking this to Kingmaker just gave me a new idea for a little campaign storyline.
Maybe we will get lucky and he will do a simultaneous release of both books 1 and 2. He did say in a kickstarter update that he was working on both of them at once.
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Hey kevin !! I can't wait for your suggestions to the AP, like Douglas Muir and others if they still stick with Gary.
One thing though: Don't you ever mention again your 162 gp teleporation ring again... (smirk and teasing ... ;o) ).
Can you see that i'm bored waiting ?
Hey, it wasn't MY 162 gp teleporation ring. It was my GM's ring. He also has mercanes in the story (black market only) so you can literally get whatever you want in his version. The version I'm running doesn't have either. Besides, I redid the math. He had it divided by 50 as per the wand rules.
I want to read the AP soon and put my input on it soon as well.
Has anyone received the Way of the Wicked PDF's they purchased as a backer of Throne of Night yet?
Has anyone who backed the Creature Cards received them yet?
I know that about a six weeks ago Gary promised that the cards were shipping soon. As I understand it he even hired someone to do so about the same time.
Maybe we can use any answers we get to deduce how full Gary's overloaded plate is at the moment and in turn provide us with some insight into how far off a Throne of Night release might be.
I figure it's worth a try.
Hey, any news is good news, Douglasiv. Thanks for such a quick response.
Well, now we know that the Creature Cards issue has been addressed and is in the process of being dealt with.
Now, hopefully, we will hear from someone who received their WotW PDF's.
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Dear FMG,
You have soured my opinion of Kickstarter and backing projects with the lack of communication and delays on when Throne of Night will be delivered.
Initially it was promised with delivery on May, then June, Then August...
You said "Book One of Throne of Night will be out in PDF by the end of August. Book Two should follow by the end of September."
It is now Mid-September and you've not updated us yet again.
I appreciate the work you did with WotW and am hopeful that one day you will deliver on your promises for the people who spent 40000 dollars to fund this project for you.
If you can't handle the demands you have set for yourself then how can you expect people to buy your product in the future?
Personally after this I will NEVER support your company regardless of how spectacular the product because you are unprofessional in your expectations and estimations.
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Dear FMG,
You have soured my opinion of Kickstarter and backing projects with the lack of communication and delays on when Throne of Night will be delivered.
Initially it was promised with delivery on May, then June, Then August...
You said "Book One of Throne of Night will be out in PDF by the end of August. Book Two should follow by the end of September."
It is now Mid-September and you've not updated us yet again.
I appreciate the work you did with WotW and am hopeful that one day you will deliver on your promises for the people who spent 40000 dollars to fund this project for you.
If you can't handle the demands you have set for yourself then how can you expect people to buy your product in the future?
Personally after this I will NEVER support your company regardless of how spectacular the product because you are unprofessional in your expectations and estimations.
There's less of a chance that he's going to see this here, than he would at the KS.
I'm going to add to the chorus here a bit. I have greatly enjoyed products from this company and from its masters before it existed. I own all of the WotW books even though I will never get to run them because my group doesn't really like to play evil. I have also backed several kickstarters, from Reaper Bones to Realmsworks to dwarf miniatures to Pathfinder Online. I didn't back Throne of Night because right at that time I didn't have the cash, so I asked one of the members of my group to back it just on my recommendation.
So no I look like an arsewhole.
It doesn't bother me that the books are late. We are currently running Skull and Shackles, and after that we have book two of Mongoose's Drow Wars, which is ten levels long. It will be at least the middle 2014 before we can start Throne of Night, and I still think it will be available by then.
It does bother me that I check here and I check the Kickstarter page every day and there is no update. My buddy is a great guy and he is laughing it all off, but I recommended something to him that is looking pretty sketchy at the moment.
I would be happy with two sentences that said: After the Gencon game, we realized we needed to revise X. or After the Gencon game, we wanted to add some new content that seemed way cool and sandboxy. This will mean a delay, but things are still working.
One of the reasons I back kickstarter is because I enjoy watching the creative process. I have backed enough to expect things to be late and I don't care about that at all.
Has anyone received the Way of the Wicked PDF's they purchased as a backer of Throne of Night yet?
Yeah - Got my WotW Pdf's in short order after the KS (Via DTRPG).
Still - The kickstarter model of malleable delivery dates continues to hold true. Grrrr.
And I agree with Umarian. Delayed products is forgivable, Lack of communication is not.
Generally I am pretty forgiving with KS deadlines as that is the nature of the business model, just keep me informed please!
*edit* just checked my emails and the email notification for the WotW PDFs was dated 6 June.
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At least you are not waiting for the Creature Cards. The KS for them ended last November, was scheduled to be fulfilled in March, and still is not done, and receives even less communication than the ToN one does.
Granted he received the cards at his place weeks ago, but he is still expecting it to take several more weeks to get out the cards to all the backers. (Keep in mind there were only 550 backers)
But that has been updated. Twice. Once to say that Gary hired a new person to send everything out, and one saying that half of the orders had been filled and that a new shipment was leaving next week.
Gary might just need to hire a second intern for the ToN, as he did with the creature cards.
Kevin - I've posted this several places, facebook and the ks in hopes that FMG gets the message.
I'd not be so upset if when a deadline was failed we as the consumer would get an explanation as to what's causing the hold up. But Gary is flying around the country on what I feel is my dime doing conventions and not delivering on his promises.
In any other avenue of employment this kind of lack of communication/production would get you fired. Here we are held captive by a company that already has 40000 dollars worth of our money and has effectively stolen it. Yes that's a bit of sensationalism, but that's how I'm feeling at the moment.
I'm also considering other avenues to hold FMG accountable to those of us who gave them our money, but I won't go into those here because this is not the correct venue for that.
Personally I am not particularly angry, but it is a bit annoying. Ok, the other project I backed - Exalted 3E - also got delayed, but that was sort of expected considering their history, and they seem to be doing updates a bit more often.
Although it's just out of curiosity because we are still playing WotW (it took my players 1 year and 1 week to finish book one) I have to agree that the classic error is a lack of communication from FMG.
Nevertheless I understand perfectly that he's got workload all over him (and may be also tons of personal stuffs). It's like trains or planes delays, there nothing worse than not knowing anything.
So if you ever learn something Gary on this one. Communicate, even if you just say "sorry guys I had to do this and this.... and so .... therefore I'm expecting to deliver this time".
Nevertheless You guys at FMG have aaaaaall my trust.
Provided you communicate with people who gave you their trust and their money (not me I didn't have the dosh at that time for KS).
Has anyone received the Way of the Wicked PDF's they purchased as a backer of Throne of Night yet?Yeah - Got my WotW Pdf's in short order after the KS (Via DTRPG).
Still - The kickstarter model of malleable delivery dates continues to hold true. Grrrr.
And I agree with Umarian. Delayed products is forgivable, Lack of communication is not.
Generally I am pretty forgiving with KS deadlines as that is the nature of the business model, just keep me informed please!*edit* just checked my emails and the email notification for the WotW PDFs was dated 6 June.
Thanks Jaynay27. I was hoping that these PDF's was another problem that could be cleared from the chalkboard.
At least now everyone who reads this thread will know that the PDF fulfillment has been addressed and that is one more thing no longer standing between Gary finishing Throne of Night.
I can't believe how people keep defending Gary. The man took your money, lies to you, doesn't deliver what you paid for,and he refuses to answer any questions. That sounds like a criminal to me.
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I know that Gary's been a bit busy trying to prove who he is to a few websites that have been allowing his WotW pdfs to be hosted as pirated shares, and he's had to go to each one, prove who he is, and get them to remove each of the files. I don't know how long that would take, especially websites that aren't in English, but I do know that's been taking up some of his time. Just not how much exactly. Personally, I don't know if I should have brought this up publicly as Gary himself didn't bring it up, and piracy happens all the time to publishers, but that is where part of his energy's been focused on.
Truth be told, I don't really know how relevant the information is, just wanted to bring it up, just in case.
I can't believe how people keep defending Gary.We defended Nic after Razor Coast too.
From what I read Nic should be in prison. If Gary were doing home repairs or work on driveways and acting exactly the same way he would already have been arrested. Fraud is still a crime. The problem is that it is just rpg's and society thinks all of this is just worthless and silly stuff practiced by weird people who still live in their parents basement.
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Fraud is still a crime.
So take him to court.
You'll probably find that there is fine print in Kickstarters terms of use that specify that dates are estimates and not legally binding however.
That sounds like a criminal to me.
Lots of things sound like criminal behavior, but unfortunately we rely on the courts to determine who is and is not a criminal. You accusing Gary of it does not make it so.
Funny how Gary is too afraid to post anything himself but others feel the need to defend him. Why? Alias's of Gary or friends?
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Funny how Gary is too afraid to post anything himself but others feel the need to defend him. Why? Alias's of Gary or friends?
I've been around this forum far longer than Gary has, so not an alias. Also, don't know the guy personally, not to mention not in the same country as him either, so "friend" might be pushing it. It's not about defending him. Yes, he has my money. Yes, he doesn't communicate well. Still, while leery, I trust that he'll come through. All round he seems like a nice guy. Maybe it's because I'm Canadian, but I try to sometimes see a glass as half full. "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." So far, he hasn't fooled anyone. He's just been incredibly late. The joys of being human. We have our unfortunate faults.