Some comments in another controversial thread got me thinking about this.
I am no biological flight expert. But from what I have read, few real world flying creatures have a lot of difference between slow flight and full speed flight. The aerodynamics of the situation just don't allow it. I don't think there is any winged creature that you could take 1/2 off the max wingbeats of full speed flight and it still be able to gain alttitude.
Not talking about gliding down or soaring on thermals. Obviously that would not be much affected because the wings are mostly not moving.
Hmm... If you wanted to get really technical about it, when you consider the high speed with which birds adjust tail position and feather angle. You could probably make the case that even soaring might not work too well.
Anyway, just some random thoughts while bored at work.
Real world biology and physics have nothing to do with Pathfinder. :)
Slow does not affect flight other than to reduce the amount of flight available.
- Gauss
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Interesting thought exercise, but using real world logic, most of your winged flying enemies wouldn't actually be able to fly. Glide at best and almost never hovering. See, there comes a point is size where it no longer matters how big your wings are, you just cannot get some things off the ground no matter how fast they flap. This is why helicopters have propellers and modern planes have jet engines. The dragon could never fly. His body isn't aerodynamic enough and doesn't have sufficient thrust to leave the ground. He probably couldn't even glide. An angel could never actually fly on the strength of its wings or with any level of thermal. Unless of course, magic was involved. Then you get into the argument I always use when players propose anything quasi-logical: most fantasy settings are flush with magic. It must exist everywhere to help people deal with all the things that otherwise don't make sense. Why doesn't a giant spiders exoskeleton crush the gooey inside? Magic! How do giants produce enough of anything to feed themselves and their children? Magic! How does a dire bat ever get off the ground? Magic! How does a giant piece of clay move around on its own power? Mag... okay that last one is kind of obviously magic.
So you see, magic must be a part of your fantasy campaign, and I personalize find that it is more fun to try and justify all the rules than to try and find holes in them. The holes are much easier to spot. From a rules point if a winged creature chooses to do anything but move while slowed, they would have to hover (DC15) to stay aloft. That says to me that if they do anything on their turn but try to stay aloft, it becomes much harder to do so. That's my two copper.
I don't think this belongs in the rules forum.
RAW obviously says nothing about grounding the winged targets.
It was just a thought/discussion excercise to see if anyone else had ever considered the idea.
But whatever. =)
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Also note that in the rules, there are already provisions forcing a flying creature affected by slow to make checks if he wants to stay flying:
"Flying Maneuver Fly DC
Move less than half speed and remain flying 10
Hover 15 "
Since Slow reduces you to one action per round, doing anything other than taking a move action will prompt a fly check to remain airborne.
While they are slowed to us, they are not slowed to themselves.
As they are not slowed to themselves, but are instead seeing everything around them moving much faster, they are still capable of keeping themselves aloft with their wings.
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While they are slowed to us, they are not slowed to themselves.
As they are not slowed to themselves, but are instead seeing everything around them moving much faster, they are still capable of keeping themselves aloft with their wings.
This has no basis in the Rules whatsoever.
However, as I noted above, the rules actually do have provisions in them forcing Slowed or Staggered creatures to either spend their turn moving just to stay airborne or make Fly checks to stay aloft.|
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good catch.Also note that in the rules, there are already provisions forcing a flying creature affected by slow to make checks if he wants to stay flying:
"Flying Maneuver Fly DC
Move less than half speed and remain flying 10
Hover 15 "Since Slow reduces you to one action per round, doing anything other than taking a move action will prompt a fly check to remain airborne.
Thanks :)
Ssalarn hit the nail on the head. There are already rules embedded into the Fly skill for this situation.
Less than half speed is not half speed. A single Move action is sufficient to stay aloft without the need to make a check.
- Gauss
Nicos:
Correct, I was just reinforcing it in a way I thought might be a little more clear. Ssalarn was using an Either/Or statement that might have been difficult for some people to muddle through. (There is an entire thread where people have a hard time understanding either/or statements. LOL)
- Gauss
Also note that in the rules, there are already provisions forcing a flying creature affected by slow to make checks if he wants to stay flying:
"Flying Maneuver Fly DC
Move less than half speed and remain flying 10
Hover 15 "Since Slow reduces you to one action per round, doing anything other than taking a move action will prompt a fly check to remain airborne.
Choosing to make less than half the possible forward speed is not really the same thing as wings moving at half speed.
The classic example is the hummingbird. I saw a show once that used slow motion photography to show that a hummingbird has an almost constant wing speed. What changes is the wing angle, body stance, feather aspect, and wing path.
A humming bird can hover just fine. If you somehow cut his wingspeed in half it would be walking.
But, I understand and agree with the first couple of replies. I'm being too much of an engineer dork and not enough of a magic dork. =)
Gloss it over in the name of the game. Magic lets them fly.
Kydeem de'Morcaine:
That is what the hover feat is for. A must have for any Dragon. :D
- Gauss