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I have an idea. Let's take the Paladin out of this special category that he's somehow been put into, and treat him like any other character with motivations.
A code is no different than how any other character should see his/her motivations. Every character is living by their own codes, they just don't name them.
Role-Play him like The TICK! Isn't the Tick a paladin with some well placed low scores?
Yes, I believe you'd be correct.
I am curious, can a Paladin joke? Can he tell stories? Can he trick his friends, play pranks on them? Can he be a smartass? Can he be sarcastic? Is he able to be all these things while maintaining his code of conduct?
Just some questions I had, please feel free to answer them.
NO. No way. ;)
I think they're usually tightasses.
I mean, they're "funny" as in "they change their underwear four times a day," but........being a comedian? Naaaaah.
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I have an idea. Let's take the Paladin out of this special category that he's somehow been put into, and treat him like any other character with motivations.
A code is no different than how any other character should see his/her motivations. Every character is living by their own codes, they just don't name them.
@#$%in' this. Paladins can be any number of things. Pigeonholing them into the role of "uptight humorless jerks" isn't the fault of the paladin class, it's the fault of unimaginative gamers.
Paladins absolutely can be humorous, be it in a gentle inoffensive way or downright raunchy or caustic. Not everything falls neatly or exclusively into classifications of good, evil, law, or chaos.
Go for it. The game needs more atypical paladins.
Does David Boreanez joke around on Bones? Cause he's a perfect example of a paladin on television
He does, which can be very frustrating to him because Bones herself doesn't get many of his jokes, though she has gotten better over time.
Booth is either incredibly high level, has an intelligence in the 20s, or is cheating somehow, he's got way too many skills to be a normal paladin.
Hmm.. Now I'm thinking of creating a paladin of Asmodeus. He's always (unknowingly) been taught lies about the religion, and believes it's just been given a bad rap this entire time. He's out to show everyone how good of a religion it really is.
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Hmm.. Now I'm thinking of creating a paladin of Asmodeus. He's always (unknowingly) been taught lies about the religion, and believes it's just been given a bad rap this entire time. He's out to show everyone how good of a religion it really is.
Stop. Just stop. Don't open that can of worms again. Forget the thought ever occurred to you. Or at least act like you've forgotten it. Please.
Hmm.. Now I'm thinking of creating a paladin of Asmodeus. He's always (unknowingly) been taught lies about the religion, and believes it's just been given a bad rap this entire time. He's out to show everyone how good of a religion it really is.Stop. Just stop. Don't open that can of worms again.
New to the forum. Wasn't aware it was a huge problem. But I could easily see an evil god wanting to trick people into worshiping him, in order to gain more power.
Depending on the campaign setting, though, it would be a short life for the poor paladin. Might go well in Cheliax, but venturing outside of that would lead to a quick death.
Hmm.. Now I'm thinking of creating a paladin of Asmodeus. He's always (unknowingly) been taught lies about the religion, and believes it's just been given a bad rap this entire time. He's out to show everyone how good of a religion it really is.Stop. Just stop. Don't open that can of worms again.New to the forum. Wasn't aware it was a huge problem. But I could easily see an evil god wanting to trick people into worshiping him, in order to gain more power.
Depending on the campaign setting, though, it would be a short life for the poor paladin. Might go well in Cheliax, but venturing outside of that would lead to a quick death.
Quick summary from a very lengthy and heated discussion: Not on Golarion. On Golarion paladins have to follow the same one-step alignment rule as clerics, and even then only specific deities call paladins. Asmodeus is not one of them. There was a mention of paladins of Asmodeus in an AP volume, but that was in error and should have never made it into print. It has been officially retconned.
Everything else is up in the air. Decide for yourself if it is appropriate for your home game.
Hmm.. Now I'm thinking of creating a paladin of Asmodeus. He's always (unknowingly) been taught lies about the religion, and believes it's just been given a bad rap this entire time. He's out to show everyone how good of a religion it really is.Stop. Just stop. Don't open that can of worms again.New to the forum. Wasn't aware it was a huge problem. But I could easily see an evil god wanting to trick people into worshiping him, in order to gain more power.
Depending on the campaign setting, though, it would be a short life for the poor paladin. Might go well in Cheliax, but venturing outside of that would lead to a quick death.
Quick summary from a very lengthy and heated discussion: Not on Golarion. On Golarion paladins have to follow the same one-step alignment rule as clerics, and even then only specific deities call paladins. Asmodeus is not one of them. There was a mention of paladins of Asmodeus in an AP volume, but that was in error and should have never made it into print. It has been officially retconned.
Everything else is up in the air. Decide for yourself if it is appropriate for your home game.
Ah. Makes sense. I haven't seen that ruling. Can you point to where it's at?
It is spread over several separate threads, but if I were to use a single post it would be the following, in reference to the mention of paladins of Asmodeus:
Source Are Asmodean paladins legal for play?
Technically, it's a DEVELOPMENT error and not an editing error that the bit about paladins of Asmodeous slipped through into print. The whole "what is Lawful Good" and "what's okay to do as a paladin" scene is WAY too complicated as it stands without us confusing things more by saying a paladin can serve a lawful evil deity. It should have been changed before it saw print, but it slipped through.Paladins of Asmodeus are, in any event, not allowed in the Pathfinder Society. They're fine in home games if the GM is cool with them. I would not be.
Additional statements go on to state why no such paladins exist in Golarion, and that no such paladin will ever be included in any published material.
When I read the title I thought that this thread was about having a Paladin as a comic relief in the party. A Paladin with dumped INT could be such a comic relief: think Pontius from Trine 2. A paladin with a very high CHA could also be so much full of himself that it would become ridiculous: think Holy Avatar from Grotesque Tactics.
To answer the real question of the OP: Yes, why not? As long as the jokes are not mean or made with a bad intent, I don't see any problem with that.
Self-depreciative humour would probably be the "safest" kind for a Pally - that way he doesn't hurt anyone, or at least not anyone who matters.
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I didn't think Michael Carpenter was that funny, now Sanya, that's a funny paladin.
There would definitely be lots of room for "powerful paladin flummoxed by family dilemma" humor in The Carpenter Files. It was off-screen, but his mission kept him busy and his wife kept everything together. I can only imagine the scenes of awkward un-relating that led to his oldest becoming Harry's protege -- definitely an act of rebellion, given Dresden's safety record.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Let us not forget Benton Frasier (Ok, so he's a LG Ranger, still very Paladin and very funny).
I am curious, can a Paladin joke? Can he tell stories? Can he trick his friends, play pranks on them? Can he be a smartass? Can he be sarcastic? Is he able to be all these things while maintaining his code of conduct?
Just some questions I had, please feel free to answer them.
Buddhism can be a rather strict discipline, and a rigorous lifestyle, but I dare anyone to say that the Dalia Lama is not a fun guy to be around. In answer to your question, "Yes" paladins can be fun people.
"But Brox...Dalia Lama is a monk...we'z askin bout pallydinz!"
Answer: You just got a TWOFER! Monks AND paladins can be funny when they want to!!! Hurray!
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16
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I am curious, can a Paladin joke? Can he tell stories? Can he trick his friends, play pranks on them? Can he be a smartass? Can he be sarcastic? Is he able to be all these things while maintaining his code of conduct?
Just some questions I had, please feel free to answer them.
Buddhism can be a rather strict discipline, and a rigorous lifestyle, but I dare anyone to say that the Dalia Lama is not a fun guy to be around. In answer to your question, "Yes" paladins can be fun people.
"But Brox...Dalia Lama is a monk...we'z askin bout pallydinz!"
Answer: You just got a TWOFER! Monks AND paladins can be funny when they want to!!! Hurray!
I am now making a Champion of Irori with ranks in Perform (comedy) to relieve the stresses of others to make room for their enlightenment. I imagine a controlled Buster Keaton/Three Stooges thing going on (I mean, there's a reason for those amazing saves, right?)
Let us not forget Benton Frasier (Ok, so he's a LG Ranger, still very Paladin and very funny).
He's clearly got at least 3 levels of paladin. Man's fearless.
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He's clearly got at least 3 levels of paladin. Man's fearless.Let us not forget Benton Frasier (Ok, so he's a LG Ranger, still very Paladin and very funny).
I like to think of the Mounties as a hybrid paladin/ranger class.
The Palaradinger.
Eh, not all Mounties are gestalt abominations.
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What about Alistair from Dragon Age (if you don't find him to be overly whiny). I personally liked his wisecracks, and is as close to a Paladin as you'd find in Dragon Age.
now Sanya, that's a funny paladin.
"There is, I think, humor here which does not translate well from English into sanity."
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Putting the comedian role aside for a moment, 'funny' can easily be considered 'witty'. It's not likely we'll see Paladins doing stand-up at some tavern's improv night (not to say it can't happen, it's just not likely).
Wit: Paladins can be witty, even snarky. Remember, while a Paladin may be an embodiment of honour and virtue, they are still warriors. Warriors are trained to win and the best way to defeat an opponent is to trick them into defeating themselves. Angered opponents make mistakes that Paladin can take advantage of (and it's not dishonourable, the mistake was theirs to make). This also assists the Paladin in subduing opposition instead of outright killing them, as some realms in Golarion prefer trials before handing out death sentences.
Every Paladin has a limit to the amount of crap they can tolerate. For adventurers, where their lives are just one big ball of misfortune after another, a Paladin expressing his dislike for certain situations with a witty comment is an awesome way to relieve the stress at hand without risking a breakdown that could violate their ethics. Psychologically, laughing at our problems is one of our best coping mechanisms.
After being captured and tortured: "Well, on the upside, starving in a dungeon is preferable to another night of Fighter's cooking. Let's try and come up with a plan..."
That's a joke, but the paladin remains focused on an escape of some sort, refusing to give up. As a Paladin, stay funny, crack jokes, taunt your enemies, but remember to stay modest about it. Don't chastise all the Lords of Hell and issue a challenge because you smote a Lemure. Keep it on a personal level. Paladins are nothing if not honest and if your opponent is performing poorly against you, you are well within your code of ethics to chastise him on proper fighting stances, where to keep his shield at all times, the condition of his armor, even his personal hygiene.
Remember, what might sound insulting to your or I, could just be the Paladin trying to be helpful. Redeeming a soul of poor personal hygiene is just as important as smiting the undead.
Practical Jokes: I'll agree with a comment someone made earlier: "pranks and practical jokes display a chaotic nature." Now, I'll disagree. :) Excessive pranks or practical jokes are certainly signs of a chaotic personality, they've been around since the dawn of time. Let's face it, the occasional prank is hilarious and for adventurers sometimes the only way for them to keep their sanity is to share a laugh around the camp fire.
I'd not encourage a Paladin to be an excessive prankster, but she could certainly be a witty and retributive one. For example: returning upon a prankster in the party a prank of her own providing there's no immediate or possible danger involved.
For example, the prankster is deathly afraid of undead and they stand before a tomb: "Yup, looks like undead for sure. Shame I lost my holy symbol last night (knowing the prankster has it stashed). Oh, well, looks like I'll have to sit this one out. Fighter, Prankster... you two do me proud, okay? I'll be praying for ya." Fighter smirks because he knows what Paladin is up to and goes along with it. Within seconds the prankster cracks and gives up the holy symbol because they need the Paladin's channel ability if they're to survive the tomb. The prankster's been pranked. The same as with wit, be modest about it. If the prankster hadn't caved and given up the holy symbol, the Paladin would have ventured in anyway and demanded his holy symbol back (knowing he had it all along), since not going would have resulted in injury to his allies and that doesn't make for a funny prank at all.
But the Paladin lied: Paladins can, and do, engage in deception and/or misdirection when necessary. While in everyday dealings a Paladin should remain forthright and honest, a Paladin is still at war with evil. War demands that a Paladin may sometimes have to bend the truth to get to a greater evil and destroy it. Kicking down the doors of an evil cult's hideout and screaming "Death to all heretics!" is not the best way to handle things. By the time they make it to the 'big bad' he's skipped out the back door to start a new cult in some other town. A wise Paladin should know that the goal is the Urgathoan Priest at the heart of it all, and the peon cultists are a secondary objective.
Now, their aura sometimes makes undercover work difficult, but not impossible. Providing the Paladin commits no atrocities (or allows any to be committed in her presence) then the Gods, in their infinite wisdom, will surely understand the Paladin's misdirection and subterfuge for the greater good. You'd be amazed what a Paladin can do with a decent Bluff skill in righteous circumstances.
Again, be modest. A Paladin should never lie to the good and decent folk of the world, but bluffing a few bandits into giving up the location of their boss when intimidation fails, well, in that case, the Gods of B.S. be praised.
Those are my opinions, and they may not jive with everyone. That's cool, to each their own. Happy adventuring.
Not only can paladins be funny, they are the ultimate straight man.
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I would really say just look at Sheyln. She's a goddess of art and beauty that has paladins which would include things like humor and especially love and the good will they can foster with them. For a paladin to deny these things because they don't fall into the "big serious no fun" category people keep trying to put them in would actually be a huge disservice to needs of law and good that a paladin is trying to promote.
An example could be a paladin telling a raunchy joke to turn a tavern full of drunks angry at the parties rogue for steal drinks and dances with beautiful women into an all night party with life long allies or using his sharp tongue to turn a bad social foe paw at a royal party into the talk of the evening and scoring the party some powerful contacts. Hell you could use it to convince that protean your fighting that not all paladins are sticks in the mud and decide "What the hell lets help the little bound shape out" just to be chaotic in a whole new way for once. The real question you need to ask yourself is "Can humor be used for good and/or can it be used to promote law?" and if the answer is yes the of course a paladin can do it! Look at stand up comics who use bad government as fertile soil for satire to get the word out or those who use comedy to break the ice with new people, these are all tools that paladins not only would know about but are probably trained in the use of as they allow them to promote good and law without causing harm and rely on the high amounts of charisma they would already have.
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Paladins have no sense of humor that they are aware of.
Paladins have no sense of humor that they are aware of.
Actually, the 'stick-up-your-ass' effect is not an official class feature of the Paladin. It's just that many players choose to play him that way.
Paladins have no sense of humor that they are aware of.Actually, the 'stick-up-your-ass' effect is not an official class feature of the Paladin. It's just that many players choose to play him that way.
I was paraphrasing a joke from MiB.
Well, with Purify Food & Drink being cantrips, the strict need for alcoholic beverages as safe drinks is lessened somewhat.
A paladin shouldn't be a drunkard, but he doesn't have to be straight-edge either I'd say. Some of them probably are, preferring maximum purity, while others think it's better to keep the common touch, that it's much easier to convince others to lead good lives if they don't think you're an elitist prick.
This.
There is nothing in the 'code' that says you can't drink. However, getting Drunk leads to lowered inhibitions... and lowered inhibitions lead to fallen Paladins.
Their lives are WAY to combat based to have their judgement clouded in a rowdy bar ;)
WIll getting drunk make them fall? Nope. Can getting drunk lead to actions that MAY make them fall? QUITE possibly.
As for jokes, I'm all for it. Paladins can be hilarious if they want to be. Having a strict moral code, does NOT mean you have no sense of humor.
All paladins are hysterical. Just saying.
I was paraphrasing a joke from MiB.Paladins have no sense of humor that they are aware of.Actually, the 'stick-up-your-ass' effect is not an official class feature of the Paladin. It's just that many players choose to play him that way.
And for that we gave you a "favorite" :D
Captain America.
Fun is the politeness of despair.
You will find a lot of jokers in populations under a lot of stress.
Go anyplace where Paladins face impossible odds (that is almost everywhere) and you will find Paladins who joke and have a good laugh.
I once read a collection of (pretty darn funny) jokes told by Jews in Auschwitz. So I'd say you're definitely right.
And yes, they were definitely mostly of the gallows-humour kind.
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This the best Paladin thread ever. Just saying'.
The best (in terms of fun) paladin I ever played was a snob, sex fiend, who was a racist (hated every non-human there is). He would defend a non-human vs evil, but he would also be cussing them out and insulting them while he saved them. He always stated his edicts demanded he aid them, not like them.
Regarding paladins and humor/sarcasm, I think to a certain degree many paladins have to have a certain sense of humor about things. Because if you don't, you're much more likely to take yourself (and what you do) too seriously. This is a measure of pride, the eternal bane of the paladin's existence. I'd dare say that one is more in danger of falling if they can never see the ironic side of things or engage in/be engaged in wit simply because to otherwise is to put yourself above other people and in doing so run the risk of deifying yourself instead of your god/code/religion etc. If a man holds himself and his actions beyond reproach, then he has already done most of evil's work for him.
On a practical OOC level, the humorless paladin is also sometimes played out by self-indulgent players and gms who see the code as a way to enforce their wills supposedly in the name of gods and justice. The humorless/uptight view of the paladin is sometimes also exploited by tricky gms and players who seek to make the paladin fall by pushing and barbing him into demeaning situations expecting him to go into bloody murder mode b/c he has no sense of humor.
Basically, if you want be a bastion of light and good, it should be all the more reason for you to consider having some sense of humor. Humor banishes fear and livens the heart. It reminds us and gives us perspective, and can give us humility. For example, in many cultures of times past, ironic punishment was favored by the divine as a way to humble mortals and teach them moral lessons. Similarly, a paladin may not be in a position to openly question or stand up to a superior or ally who shows questionable behavior, but may be able to strategically leave a prank as a sort of "I'm keeping my eye on you" sort of thing or to make sure the frenemy doesn't quite win the day. Whereas direct insults or challenges may in may D&Desque cultures result in the immediate loss of life or bloodshed, a well disguised backhanded compliment can put a verbal opponent off edge and also curry favor in court.
I am so going to make a high-Cha paladin now, thanks to this thread. And actually play him as charming and fun to be around.
Actually, paladins, being lawful and GOOD with a really nice charisma, can be pleasant and awesome people to be around. Somehow people always seem to think that all paladins should be like that one really cranky and unsmiling cop that they had to deal with as a teenager in their neighborhood. Really! Good laws benefit everyone, not just those that follow the paladin's religion. A paladin is a good person, not just an unflinching law spouter with out a personality. A paladin should make everyone around them feel good and even a small amount of humor could be part of that. Paladin's are charismatic people. Even a quiet and stern paladin should be played as someone with an intangible "something" that inspires those around him/her. Some of the best old westerns have good paladin archtypes of this kind. Kurt Russell, as Wyatt Earp, in Tombstone plays a great paladin type, dryly funny, but not over the top. You, of course, don't need to play your paladin as a clown. But yeah, paladins can most certainly be funny, just not the kind of "funny" that is hurtful or damage causing to anyone =}
One of my players has a paladin who is absolutely the funniest man alive. Gilaine is always saying hilarious things in the middle of battle that inspire and encourage the other players and their characters. It's truly funny to listen to. =]
Annika, demi-deity of dark chocolate
A Paladin can be:
Sexual/Erotic: They just can't forced or coerce themselves on others and moderate their actions at times to be respectful of others morals, to a point
Funny/Joker: As long as the jokes are not harmful (without cause)
Hot Headed: But must control their actions and be certain on their aqctions
Paladins are not stick in the mud, humorless, sexless and without emotion machines
I think where that idea comes from is a combination of two major factors:
1- Way back when, the guidelines for playing various alignments (along with most of the rules to the game honestly) were written in this extremely harsh language that did not at all reflect realistic human personalities unless you went Chaotic Good (NG may also have been reasonable). This would be the same system that prescribed, if you were TN, and a fight broke out, you would have to constantly be switching sides and killing people to keep them evenly matched.
2- The whole concept of someone who just stands for everything good and lawful conjures to mind the mental image of the sort of people who typically consider themselves to have the moral high ground on ever issue. Which is to say, condescending arrogant jerks who think they're better than everyone and suck up to authority figures, often by trying to police everyone else. But... that's just flat out wrong. Those people try to project the whole Lawful Good image, but the reason they stick out in your mind so much is that they're petty jerks.
So yeah. The way you should play a paladin is really to go out of your way not to be the stereotypical antagonistic lawful stupid strawman with a stick up your butt and instead to just roleplay a legitimately well-intentioned person who sticks up for others just as a matter of general principle. Doing so should fulfill all those vows and alignment restrictions without you even having to make an effort, and allows you to still have any personality from carefree and innocent to bitter and jaded, a stick-in-the-mud to the life of the party, just so long as you don't go around abusing power and authority, making the lives of those around you miserable, assuming everyone you meet is a horrible monster that must be killed on sight... honestly, basically everything you'd imagine the aforementioned strawman paladin doing is actually totally out of alignment.
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Another sad thing is that sometimes even when paladin players go out of their way to not play that stereotype, some other players still project that image onto them.
Online, the stick-in-the-mud image seems to be put forth by paladin haters far more than anyone else.
Still, +1 to focusing on playing a genuinely good person and letting the paladin image flow from that.