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Excellent, thank you everybody!

Maybe I'm missing something or can't use an index, but I can't find anywhere in Starfinder where it talks about fighting with two weapons, yet nearly every picture in the Corebook shows some guy wielding or attacking with two weapons (in a few cases four weapons). I've done CTRL+F, I've browsed the index... maybe I'm looking to hard and that's why I'm not finding it.

Where are the rules that govern that sort of attack? I remember reading somewhere that it was a -6 to the attack roll, I think? If so when a Soldier takes their two attacks, do they get a third with their off hand, and what's the penalty?

At any rate, can someone field this one for me? What's the rule or process for two weapon fighting and where can I find it in the Corebook?

Thanks in advance.

Scoundrel the Tiefling wrote:
Interested in seeing if they steal anything from Spell Jammer

I've been using my Spell Jammer stuff like crazy for this setting. It meshes real nicely, as long as you enclose the crafts and make them out of metal... :P

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The platypus doesn't count.
No one knows what it is. It's a what... but hardly a something... it's like a... y'know...

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Now, I know I'm going to sound crazy here but... shouldn't the character be designed based off the character you'd like to play, not the math involved? When ever I see people who've done all this math I always see players who are trying to 'win' or 'survive' in a game where they make dying damn near impossible.

Also, I'm not sure what sort of Game Master you have, but I generally don't let PCs walk around civilized areas (where quite a bit of trouble can occur) with armed drones sporting heavy, and no doubt restricted, weaponry. Have you given consideration to what happens when you don't have access to your drone, or after your drone is destroyed (the drone doesn't keep on, keepin' on once the Mechanic falls in combat)? Combat drones are not small and they don't fold up to fit in your pocket. Chances are your PC can not just strut through the streets with a small tank near him.

Our Mechanic has gone through two drones already, it makes the Mechanic a larger target so all that math just draws more fire and attacks.

The Exocortex can function at anytime, in any environment and properly made can be quite the s**t starter.

There are advantages and disadvantages to each path. It's not in the math, as much people would like to believe. Ultimately it's what whatever you wanna go with.

Awesome work, excellent job.

Thank you!

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A part of me wanted to run from this thread because I'm dumbfounded that this is even an issue. Honestly... I'd say 'who gives a flying fart in the breeze', but apparently you guys do, so...

Lemme help...

Okay, a Cyborg is: a human (or appropriate life form), who is implanted with, or installed with machinery to supplement or replace organic functionality. Example: Dude get his arm cut off and replaces it with a mechanical one that does all the cool things arms do... he/she is now a 'cyborg'. Androids are not cyborgs because they are manufactured (either by themselves, or by others).

An android is an anthropomorphic machine (most commonly a robot) designed to simulate and function like a human being. In Sci-Fi they are either full on robots with human-like flesh (a Terminator, for example) or a combination of mechanical and biological components (Bishop, from Aliens for example). Starfinder is quite specific in stating that androids are, indeed, 'alive' (constitution scores), so they can not be robots (constructs do not have constitution scores). I'm in awe that it was even issue. Do the books even get read anymore?

Cyborg (DC), The Street Preacher (Johnny Mnemonic), John Silver (Treasure Planet), RoboCop (RoboCop)... all cyborgs. People who had machines installed after messed up things happened to them... or voluntary.

Data (Star Trek), Bishop (Aliens), Roy Batty (BladeRunner), Cherry 2000 (Cherry 2000)... all androids. They were machines designed to be, act, and pass for human.

still bugs me for not being able to play a PC without armor...

You can. No where in the book does it say 'armor is mandatory, you must own it'.

Take cover.

Configure a force field to act like Kinetic Barriers from Mass Effect so it's attached to a belt or clips on to your belt like a fanny pack.

Create an Ablative Harness that provides a deflection bonus.

Max your Charisma so you're so wonderful enemies feel that by destroying you the galaxy would be a less wonderful.

Max your Religion Skill so you can inflict enemies with 'guilt trip' and convince them that by killing you they'd never hear the end of it.

Don't get into fights while in your nickers.

You have options.

120) A loner... a drifter... cast out among the stars in a universe that seems to have gone mad... and all he wants is a damn Twinkie.

121) A ragtag crew set out to the stars doing crime for pay. Whatever it takes, as long as they keep flyin'.

122) That one guy who was in that show that one time who could do all those things! Yeah, that guy!

I do think that the questions contained within this thread should be brought up with the developers, however.

I don't see why this needs to go to the developers. If people want it that way in their game's then let them change it. The developers have done their part, they gave us the game with everything we need to improve upon it the ways that best suit our gaming style.

Have we devolved into such an unthinking, incapable community that we need to run to the developers and make sure something is in writing by them before we decide it's okay to include it in our games?

Then again, people will cry out for it, they will put it into a small little 15-30 page booklet and some co-dependent, sucker will pay 20 dollars for it. Fools with money = profits.

You know what the developers are gonna say? "Sure, if you wanna, go for it. We don't care. You already bought our book/PDF... do what you want with it. Use it as a coaster, we still got your money."

You've noted the math, but haven't noted the why. The reason the armor increases like it does is because characters, unlike in Pathfinder, are not longer getting a series of pluses on their equipment. Aside from the rings in the book, there are no real magical do-dads that keep the characters AC increasing to match the expected challenges ahead of them.

To account for that they incrementally added bonuses to the armor to keep the characters safe. The +1/level is about average for most characters considering magical trinkets, spells, class abilities and whatnot.

I get what you're saying, Star Wars used to do it. Characters received a Defense Bonus based on their level. Personally I didn't think it worked out well then, and it doesn't seem like something SF needs.

That said, if you wanna do it, feel free.

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So my level 1 character is walking out of the shower and get shot by laser and dies.

Same character, getting out of the shower is now level 12 and the laser bounces off his skin... yeah... not seeing it.

Also this causes problems with hygiene... how is my character going to shave if his natural armor bonus prevents the razor from cutting his whiskers?

Much like Craig Christ... sorely under rated professionals living in the shadows of their brother's success.

And it was just unsettling then as it is now. :)

I'm going back to my drow mega-corp planet so I can turn in my black market commission earnings reports and attend our end of the quarter demon worship office orgy...

Y'all are just to weird for me.

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Could you, for example, play an Android who looked like C-3PO or K-2SO from Star Wars? How about one that looked like a T-800 from Terminator? Or a Necron from WH40K? As long as it fits the basic humanoid frame?

It these examples, the part you're missing is the synthetic aspect. What these examples are are robots, machines with an AI that governs their functionality, not a soul. They are constructs.

Now, as far as appearances go, providing the android appeared as another humanoid species, then there shouldn't be any reason why you couldn't play a larger or smaller version of the basic android character. If you want to look like a vesk, a goblin, or a drow... or a jackal, then go for it. I highly doubt it's what the people Paizo had in mind, but since when do we listen to them?

Point being is that androids have souls because the their creation process is synthetic and well and nano based. They have physiologial functions that can be improved with training and work. A machine doesn't have a soul and it's capabilities are limited by its hardware (it's physical atts can't increase unless its equipment it upgraded). Now, that's not to say a machine can't have a soul, but that's not for me to decide, I don't play in your game.

If you wanna make it happen though, go nuts.

I've already converted the d20 Mecha rules for mecha over to SF. It was pretty solid, but needed some tweaks to fit the vehicle rules.

If you need some inspiration, try there. It might help you if you bump into a snag.

My wish list?
I wish people would stop being so concerned with how all the aliens mate with each other and just play the game. Way to many questions about how insect people are getting their freak on that it seriously makes me wonder how mentally stable gamers are these days...

Subtypes are hardly accurate. Yskoi don't have the vermin subtybe. They're still chipmunks.

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72) The Krogan.

The vesk are lizard-folk on roids (am I the only who hasn't noticed the art work is almost the same).

Chances are if it applies to the lizard folk, it applies to the vesk. I'm talking about biology here, how they raise their families and how they act or manage their checkbooks, that's all cultural.

Lizard folk lay eggs (meaning they have a cycle and aren't 'ready to go').

Lizard folk molt.

Vesk are carnivores. See the teeth? Also, carnivores are generally not strictly carnivorous, any carnivore can subsist of vegetation it needs to, they mostly prefer not to. Although capable, the term omnivore isn't used, since the primary preferred diet is meat.

As an aside, who cares of some material comes out later and over rides it. If it's what you want in your game, then that's how it is.

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Our experience so far has been amazing. We've had a genuine good time with a group of rag-tag screw ups hired by the Starfinder Society to locate information where Golarion has gone. In every fantasy world the main planet the PCs live on is always the third from the sun, so, they decided to investigate all these planets to see if there is some connection or another disappearance.

Frankly, no one cares, it just give them a reason to drift to various star systems and do their thing while we learn the rules. I'm not sure how other peopel are running their games, but I used Starfinder as an excuse to break out all my old Starjammer stuff (with modernized Sci-Fi upgrades) and the characters are venturing to Krynn Space, Realm Space, and Greyhawk Space. Each fantasy space is simply it's own system in another part of the big fantasy galaxy.

I've even stole some stuff from the old Alternity game that TSR made a long time ago, back before WotC ruined the RPing industry.

I have three players, one is a Vesk and the other is a yskoi. They recently picked up their third party member, a human (Envoy) actor from Earth. The ysoki learned all he could of Earth culture by listening to our music and watch our television broadcasts. The human was a star in a televisions show where her people saved another civilization from their planet 'disappearing'. So they did what any aliens would do... they kidnapped her to save Goalrion... hilarity ensues.

I've been GMing games for 30 years (since I was 10). All combat so far has been smooth and simple, and the space battles have taken off without a hitch. Someone mentioned that only the pilot does anything while everyone else sits around... if that's the case from them, then I recommend the people at your table get more involved, you're a team, play as one. I have 5 people in my group, only three are actually in the game at the moment while the other two are waiting to be introduced they assist me and help the party. You don't have to have a PC in the game to have a good time. I person acts as the ships AI, helps keep track of information while another helps me run the game by keeping tallies in initiative and stats... if you're the GM don't hide behind the screen and horde everything, let the players help you.

Also, if any of you have or can find the d20 FutureTech or d20 Modern books from ages past... the information in those books can meld almost seemlessly with Starfinder. I'm converting the FutureTech's cyberware and Gadget system over for SF, it's a good tweak.

Notable quotes so far:
Vesk: "And we will find this human in 'Calif-orn-eyah'? What do we know of it?"
Yoski: "Accroding to one, Doctor Dre, it's 'where the bomb-ass hemp be'."
Vesk: "And this 'Dre'... you think he's reliable?"
Yoski: "Well, he is a doctor."
Vesk: "I'm packing my demolitions kit, just in case, and configure the scanner to detect for 'hemp'.

Trying to fill in the human on Pact Space stuff:
Vesk: "So, that's that. Everything's been still since that whole Norborger incident."
Human: "Incident? What, they forget to add pickles or something?"
Ysoki: "Borger, not burger."
Human: "Ahh, see, now that makes sense. What doesn't make sense is why a bipedal rat and a talking alligator are in my apartment. I'd scream... but honestly, this I have to hear."
Vesk: "We lost a planet."
Human: "A whole planet? Of course you did, not all solar systems validate parking... if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna call the police now."

There are billions of opportunities for stories for this system, take what you like, cast the rest away. Most importantly, have fun.

I'm looking on the SRD for the 'mythic' template and I don't see it. Care to elaborate?

In my current campaign the PCs are going down a rather bastardized version of the Curse of the Crimson Throne.

Instead of just facing the 'big bad' in her final confrontation room I'm going to go with something a bit grander, Kazavon himself is resurrected and they have to deal with it/him... you know what I mean.

So far the PCs are one step behind and I've had to do a lot of improvising, since every chance they've had to stop the baddies from collecting the relics they've seriously screwed up. Well, now the resurrection is taking place and hey have a chance to stop it (but just in case)...

Were you guys making a Great Wrym Blue Dragon who exemplified all the spiritual creaminess that is Zon-Kuthon, what templates would you add to it?

I was considering adding just adding the 'advanced' template to it, but I thought maybe with it having the blessing Zon-Kuthon it might have one other one that might befit it's nature.

Anyone have ideas?

I'll skip all the rules jargon because we should all know it by now.

The jist is, since metamagic mastery doesn't increase the level of the spell when it's cast could you potentially apply metamagic feats when crafting certain items that have a maximum level restriction, like wands and potions. Essentially maximizing a wand of fireballs for example.

While we're on the topic...

Healer's Blessing.

When a Cleric with Healer's Blessing makes scrolls, potions or wands, are the healing spells she casts into these items considered Empowered as well?

Just a few things our gaming group has been curious of.

Oh, and completely out of context, but one more question:

What are people's thoughts on the Maestro bloodline? Is it worth it since you pretty much are forced to multiclass to take advantage of the lingering performance ability? I've heard mixed opinions, but I'd like to hear what you guys/gals think.

Are there any Paizo products for Modern or Future d20? They did such an awesome job on Pathfinder I was hoping they had a few ideas for how to improve a Future Sci-Fi game.

Druids kinda get the shaft, I'm noticing. Every other class seems to have loads of feats dedicated to enhancing their abilities and the Druid pretty much gets Natural Spell... that's about it.

BBT is right. People do lose out on a lot of what a class can do simply by not being able to let go of the stereotype of that class.

I currently play an elven druid. Elves have always had strong ties with the natural world. My Druid is not a 'Druid' per se, he is simply an elf who listens to the spirits of the woods and the lands and implores them for assistance when needed. Whispers in elvish, or a whistle on the breeze and suddenly the forests answer his call.

Instead of his Nature's Ally spells making an animal appear out of thin air, they rush suddenly from the foliage and strike from cover, or swoop from the trees, or, hell, in the case of the Land Shark he called, right up from the ground.

I think the farmer druid is an awesome idea and all the 'common tools' you mentioned that'll serve as a means of defending himself are brilliant.

Looks like it's Feat making time then...

divby0 wrote:
The DM thinks the +2 to two abilities, darkvision, daylight, resistances and two languages are to much.


Aasimar get two languages?! A bit OP if you ask me... good thing he nerfed them or everyone woulda been speaking gibberish.

On a less sarcastic note, I might have actually nerfed them or even asked you to play a different race, perhaps one of the core, and my reason is this:

You're entire build is min/maxed for one specific purpose. Everything is set up and designed to offer you every possible advantage in your chosen field. Don't get me wrong, I know everyone plays the game their on way but as a GM, when my players create something that encompasses every possible means by which they can be 'perfect' at what they do, I hand it back and tell them to rewrite it.

Everything about the character from the attributes, to the age, to the feats and the traits and especially the race, do nothing but provide the message of "I'm trying to milk every 'plus' I can."

I don't think your GM is trying to 'limit the party's fun'. I think he's actually trying to prevent you from running roughshod over the entire game he plans on running. He's taken the time to set the game up for your group and your designing PCs that'll walk through it like it's a waste of your time. If that's the case, why did he even bother setting up the game for you guys to begin with. Just sit around the table and play "1-2-3 I win!" with yourselves all night.

I would have handed the PC back to you and said to make something else. Just my two cents.

Well, they've done it.

My PCs have found themselves in a bind where an approaching army is set to invade while they're locked behind the walls of a small town and keep. Acting as spies I had hoped that they'd be in and out before the army arrived, but oh no, they had to go and have "Lord of the Rings" delusions of grandeur and now hope to hold off the approaching army of 2,500 soldiers with nothing more than themselves and the 350 able-bodied warriors the keep calls home.

I hate to say it, but I'm pretty sure they're screwed. However, I'm one to give all parties a chance, after all they surprised by getting into this mess, hopefully they'll surprise me by actually living through this.

Are there any rules for mass combat? One army taking on another?

Are there any feats that will add power to a companion? Similar to how a Wizard/Sorcerer can summon a more powerful familiar, I was hoping to find something that would allow a Druid/Ranger to acquire something more than just a standard animal.

I've looked through what sources I have and I've yet to see anything useful, in fact, it seems like most caster feats are designed for Clerics/Paladins and Wizard Sorcerers.

I find it odd that Wizards/Sorcerers can have things like devils, demons, and dragons as familiars but a Druid is limited to only normal animals, not the dire variety or even a magical beast (which they are allowed to raise and domesticate)

Any ideas?

By the way the rules are written the guantlets are not a part of the suit. They come with the suit as a freebie.

You guys do it your way, I do it mine. When a character purchases a suit of armor it's assumed that the entire suit is made from the same material. Gauntlets, boots, tighty whities, helemt, the whole she-bang.

Personally if I went to but armorer and found that the breast plate was adamatine, the pauldrons were iron, vambraces were mithral and the greaves were steel, and then they wanted to surcharge me for the helmet, I'd go somewhere else. Either sell me the complete suit, or don't sell me anything.

Ultimate Equipment Guide & Core Book:

A complete suit of full plate includes gauntlets, heavy leather boots, a visored helmet, and a thick layer of padding that is worn underneath the armor.

The RAW clearly states 'gauntles'. If you want to, sure you can take them away from the suit and give the PC something else, but just simply state that, don't try and weave some convoluted theory or excuse about armorers and costs. Were that the case adventurers would be walking around looking like C3-PO with their shiny breastplate and off colored arms and legs because the BP is mithral but his arms are steel, but in order to cut costs the made his legs from iron...

For crying out loud.

Winter Witch. The picture was cool.

...pun intended.

Since this thread is about Nidal, I'll ask this here.

I read that Zon-Kuthon stretched the First Shadow across the land of Nidal but it doesn't really describe what exactly that means. Maybe I missed it in the various texts about Nidal but I've always accepted it to mean that the land is cloaked in perpetual night. Is that true?

If not, oops, but my players think it's awesome to have a spot in the world where it's always night time.

Tahirah wrote:

All my Orcs sound like Antonio Banderas...

I don't know why, they just do.

This made me chuckle.

All my Goblins sound like Stitch (from Lilo and Stitch).

The bones of the dead are up and walking around all their own... but talking!?!

Egads! We can't have the thing talk, that'd just be silly!

Answer: Yes. If you want them to, they can talk. If you don't want them to, they can't.

I've played the module mentioned above, and that guy talked to us right before we wooped up on him, so I agree with Urath DM.

The entire suit is made from adamantine. That includes the gauntlets.

I honestly can't believe the number of Paladin debates that go on here.

I'm siding with the Kobold.

I'm not saying why, mostly because I don't feel like reading someone trying to breakdown my reasoning into a myriad of 'what ifs' and extrapolated examples just to prove they're right and I'm wrong.

In my game he would have lost his status as a Paladin too, and there's not examples or explanations that would have swayed my decision. Go get an attonement.

Your Paladin sounds more like a Hellknight, not a Paladin to me. Make a Hellknight and the 'judge' everyone you come across with out mercy.

Have at it.

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I've read both these threads from the players perspective as well as the GMs. Below are my opinions, they may seem harsh and sarcastic, but I'm just being honest. I don't know anyone here so I'm not judging and there is always more to a tale than meets the eye. Try not to take offence, and read with an open mind.

1. Put your big girl panties on and talk it through.

2. You, the GM, have essentially created an immortal spy to be sent into the PCs party and consistently feed the enemy with all the information they need and the PCs are powerless to stop it.

Not powerless in the sense that they can't kill her, but in the sense that you, as the GM, are on here posting and looking for ideas to thwart your players attempt to remove a liability that could potentially offer up to the enemy everything they need to win. Plus, she has unlimited clones so even if they do kill her, the cat comes back the very next day.

Might as well just say "Rocks fall, everyone dies. You can't kill her, because I won't let you. Even if she dies, I had her jump on the magic koopa shell in world 3-1 right before the campaign began so she has unlimited clone lives. The guys on the forums gave me all the information I need to make sure you never succeed. So there."

3. You created the mess you're currently in. Flip the script on yourself, would you allow a person in your party to continue to be a conduit for the enemy, feeding them intel and giving away all your secrets while you're trying to save the world?

I wouldn't. I don't care if she was the hottest woman to walk the earth and we were knockin' boots from dusk til dawn and back again. Booty isn't worth the price I, and my fellow party members, will pay if they lose, and neither is love. I may not kill the Sorceress, but I'd find a quiet, dark hole to lock her up in until the threat was gone. The life of a single person is not worth the life of everyone in the world I'm trying to save. If people had an issue with that it'd be on and we could settle it with steel, a settlement that would require my GM to stand aside and let me and my party handle our business.

4. I won't even get into the issue that the NPC is enamoured to the PC being played by the GMs wife. That's a nasty can o' worms right there.

5. The PC in this case is in the right, sorry bro, that's my take on it. I'm sorry you invested a lot of time in this NPC, but you made the problem, and now you have to deal with the PCs reacting to it. Let them.

The game is about having fun, not protecting your precious NPCs or precious plots. As the GM you have to be flexible, roll with the punches and recreate opportunities for the enemies where the PC have breached through carefully laid plans.

It's not a competition. Pathfinder is not GM vs. the Players where you roll dice and try to beat their characters. You are writing, telling, and creating a story where your players are heroes. It's their story, not yours. Let them tell it and simply react to their actions within that world. Sometimes, NPCs die. It happens.

The PC doesn't seem to want to kill her (not that it would work, she has several more clones chilling in her closet. Probably with special hair dos so she can just shift her soul into the body of which hair style she wants that day) he seems to just want her 'out of the way' until your heroes can save the world. So far, he seems to the only person who's trying to solve the problem you've created, and peacefully too.

That seems pretty damn reasonable to me and if your Sorceress had a lick of sense, and her lover had a lick of sense, they'd realize that the Rogue is offering up the most viable option for victory where no one has to die. The GM and the Sorceress just seem like parts of the problem since they don't seem to contribute anything to the solution.

Just my two cents, harsh as they may sound.

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Just remember, you're under no obligation to use any of your abilities or powers for the betterment of the group as long as that abomination remains with the group.

Settle it by offering to get a new mount for the player, be diplomatic about (Look, since I'm destroying your mount, I'll buy you a new one.) and if that doesn't work, default to the old fashioned:

"Wow, you're in pretty bad shape. That thing really messed you guys up, what with the damage and ability draining and all. What? Healing? Yeah, I could, no problem... So uhh... how's that horse situation working out? Because Pharasma and I had a chat and it seems that when you piss my goddess off and spit in the eye of my faith, healing becomes a bit difficult for me to justify."

Pharasma would probably not like the idea of your party, knowing how you feel about undead, blatantly spitting your face like that. Simply refuse divine assistance until the situation is resolved.

Were it me, frankly, I'd not even ask. The thing would have been dead (again) the moment the party let their guard down. If they want skewer me for it, so be it. As a Cleric I'd be ready to fight, and die, for what me and my Goddess stand for. I may not win, but best bet at least one PC is coming with me to the afterlife.

In our game the Ranger has been doing exceptionally well but when it comes to random loot she's been getting the short end of the stick. The other players are sporting +2 weapons, magic bracers, mithral fullplate... the list goes on. Not that the game is magic heavy, but the random rolls have been favoring everyone in the group but the lowly Ranger Archer.

I want to fix this because, like I said, she's been a sport. Not once has she complained or sighed that the randomness hasn't favored her so I plan on slipping in a magic bow for her and have the Wizard who is funding their next mission for them (go collect rare reagents I'm running low on) fashion her a magical quiver.

It's a non-standard item so I'm not sure how to work up the costs and such (in case someone else wants to make one of their own).

Basically using the Ranger spell Abundant Ammunition, I wanted to create a quiver that was never empty (of non-magical arrows). Depending on the level of the caster maybe even increase it make enchanted arrows too. I don't find the concept of unlimited enchanted arrows (in the +1 or +2 range) game breaking.

For now, I'm just going with non-magical. Abundant Quiver is a 1st level Ranger spell, so what would the cost of something like this be?

So, just in case any of the Paizo guys who control where the money goes are reading this...

I completely think you guys should make a PC game. Seriously, NWN and NWN 2 are just getting old. The Pathfinder system is so much more streamlined and I'd love to see a game that gave us the option to play online with persistent worlds and such. Plus, I'd love to see a rendition of Golarion on my PC.

I'm sure I'm not the first to bring this up... but, c'mon you know you wanna! I'll put money that someone at Paizo on the staff at least once a month or so says: 'So, uh... when can we make a PC game guys?'

And if they don't say it, they're thinking it... you know they are.

Just sayin'. :)

Look and Circle of Death.

Change it to Enchantment.

You can now put to sleep 1d4 HD of creatures per level. When the character can finally cast 6th level spells she's already able to send 11d4HD worth of creatures into a slumber.

Take already existing spells and simply change the way they work to suit your needs. A lot of times my players have submitted new spells that were simply rewritten versions of spells that already existed, like chain contagion that worked like chain lightning except it bounced disease all over the place...

Just be careful not to let remade spells unbalance the game you're in.

I allow characters to retrain their feats, but it's not free. They need time and they need money to cover the training expenses.

Usually it's 1d6 x 100GP x PC Level and 1d10 x PC Level in days to retrain.

Sometimes it can take a couple months, or less.

As a Wizard/Sorcerer you are allowed to make your own spells. You are not limited to what's in the books.

Just make something up and run it by your GM.

Deep Slumber
School enchantment(compulsion) [mind-affecting] Level Bard 5, sorcerer/wizard 5
Casting Time 1 round
Components V, S, M (a lock of hair from a witch who knows slumber hex, or a harpy's feather)
Range medium (100ft +10ft./level)
Area one or more creatures within a 10ft. radius burst
Duration 1 minute/level
Saving Throw Will negates; Spell Resistance yes

Functions like sleep save that the caster may affect 4HD of creatures plus 1 additional HD for every 2 caster levels (Maximum of 15HD).

Just a quick question and I'll let you all get back to rescuing maidens and wrecking taverns with loud, raging brawls...

What Paladin abilities require a Paladin's holy symbol to be present (not necessarily in hand, but present on his/her person)?

Channelling, obviously, but does a mercy require it? We have a Paladin that didn't bother getting a holy symbol for whatever reason and I want to call him out on it as a 'lesson'.

Does Paizo make a Psionics book for Pathfinder?

When you come across weapons and armor of unusual metals (mithral, adamantine, etc), has anyone ever ran into the PCs wanting to melt it down and make something else from it instead?

Recently they stumbles a +2 adamantine battle axe and they decided they'd rather try and make something else from it instead. I sort of made it up on the fly, but I ruled the moment they melt it down it's destroyed and loses its enchantment (obviously), but I wasn't sure how much adamantine it'd give them so I ruled it'd equal half the base materials, or 3lbs.

Thoughts, opinions?

Also, what bonuses stack with what? Last session I was throughly confused because one of the PCs ended up with a natural armor bonus, deflection bonus, a dodge bonus, his enhancement bonus, and bracers of armor which are an armor bonus...

I know two identical effects don't stack (you use the better), but aren't there a few bonuses that don't stack with other bonuses?

I'm in the same boat with everyone else. Consider it a weapon, but it simply doesn't cover enough to provide adequate DR.

However, it's sheer durability makes it almost impossible to destroy. I've had Fighters use it to hold open falling portcullises or even jam up traps.

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This happens from time to time in our games as well. While it's left largely up to the GM we say 'yes', but caveats is that the target can not be aware that the action is going to cause them harm. The exception is the movement that provokes the AoO, since this stated in the book.

Here's a few ways I handle it.

When the target moves, if any of the AoOs connect and score damage, the command effect is broken and the stop on the square where they were injured.

Asking them to 'read' a warded book is acceptable, since they don't know it's warded. Triggering a pressure plate they didn't know was there. Walking into a Gelatinous Cube was acceptable, but the target still got their perception roll to notice it (remember, they're transparent).

The 'fall' command would not have worked in my game, since 'falling' would have caused direct harm as a result of obeying the command.

The rune trap may have worked, but the target would still have been permitted a perception check to notice they were being asked to walk into a trap.

Hope that provides some insight.


Lets say that there is a remote town with a mayor who is LE. The town laws state that carrying weapons in town is punishable by arrest and death. The townies know this and stay within the law and are thus treated well, but outsiders are generally killed with in a day since the trip here is dangerous and most are carrying weapons. Is the mayor "legitimate authority" or can the paladin try to get rid of him? Especially since the paladin was already arrested for carrying a sword into town (their holy bond weapon).

Does the paladin have to follow the law there and accept their death, or fight against the evil ruler?

This has nothing to do with alters, gods, and whether or not destroying them is good/evil.

To answer your question, yes. The Paladin would accept the Mayor as the law and adhere to those laws while in his town. As the GM, you should have guards at the gate notify the PCs of that upon their arrival, not just let them walk in, get arrested, and beheaded.

Not providing any warning to the PCs and then attempting to arrest them, could be considered unlawful, since any crime punishable by death should be made public knowledge, even to visitors. The party as a whole (not just a Paladin) should be given the option to leave their weapons at the gate (to pick them up when they leave) or simply be given the option to move on to the next village.

Unless it's plot based, you shouldn't put the party in the 'ignorance of the law is no excuse, now you have to die' scenario. Since the Paladin has already been arrested in your scenario, he'd petition for a trial and should be allowed a Diplomacy check to plead his case. Entrapment is unlawful and basically that is what you described above and the Paladin should not stand for it.

How it plays out after that, is up to the GM.

Define 'get rid of'. The Paladin, despite how unlawful a law might seem, doesn't have carte blanche to simply put ever low life to the sword. In your scenario, providing the Paladin got out of it, would work with the ruler to find ways of making the law more readily available to anyone entering the city so they aren't blind sided by it and put to death. He'd also state that a death penalty is a bit much for simply carry a weapon.

If that failed he'd petition the local Lord and try to have the mayor removed from office on the grounds that he's unfit for the position. It could become quite political but in the end if things didn't end well at all, the church itself may, through communing with the God and seeking approval, grant the Paladin righteous providence to depose the mayor by force (step down, 'or else'). In this scenario the Paladin is backed by his church and the 'crimes' he may commit in the process fall on the back of the church when the local Lord comes knocking. The Paladin could lay siege to the town, depose the mayor, and work towards installing a more lawful ruler in it's place. The mayor would then answer for his crimes unless the church specifically authorized the Paladin to act as the executioner.

Paladins, Inquisitors, and Clerics of good faith are decent folk, but you do not want to piss them off. Once the church backs them and approves of their course of action it's the same thing to them as their God standing over them saying "It's okay." As long as they are still acting on the tenants of their faith (depose the ruler, protect the people in the case above) they will put an army at the gate and do what needs to be done and there will be no stopping them.

War could happen... all because a guard didn't say "Carrying weapons in the town is illegal, leave it at the gate or face the guillotine. Hey, you know... I used to be an adventurer like you. Then I took an arrow to the knee."

Holy wars have started over less.

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