Additional Resources Updates

[Chris Lambertz]

Additional Resources updates occur on the street dates for the new products (sometimes it's off by a day if too many things get piled up, but it's the most accurate for checking if they've been updated).

[Nefreet]

I picked my copy up a week ago... what is a "street date"?

[Chris Lambertz]

The street date for products can be found on their product page (listed as the PDF release date). If a store is putting out Paizo new releases before their street date, you can let our sales team know so they can contact the distributor to see whats going on. You can email them at [e-mail].

[Cpt_kirstov]

Halloween I believe... if you look at any of this month's books, the day the PDF is availibe is the street date

[Nefreet]

Hmm. I don't think my local game store would be too thrilled if I ratted them out. I bought their only copy on Wednesday. Would be pretty easy to trace the "complaint" back to me.

[Finlanderboy]

When I worked in video game sales we loved it when someone broke street date. If another store broke it we were able to without penalty. This happened maybe once a year.

[graywulfe]

Nefreet wrote:

Hmm. I don't think my local game store would be too thrilled if I ratted them out. I bought their only copy on Wednesday. Would be pretty easy to trace the "complaint" back to me.

Then why did you bring up that you got it before street date, at all?

I for one would rather not have people rubbing it in my face when they get stuff, in a manner unavailable to the average consumer, early. And before anyone brings up subscribers, I consider us average consumers. It is a method available to anyone who wants to use it.

[pH unbalanced]

graywulfe wrote:

Nefreet wrote:

Hmm. I don't think my local game store would be too thrilled if I ratted them out. I bought their only copy on Wednesday. Would be pretty easy to trace the "complaint" back to me.

Then why did you bring up that you got it before street date, at all?

I for one would rather not have people rubbing it in my face when they get stuff, in a manner unavailable to the average consumer, early. And before anyone brings up subscribers, I consider us average consumers. It is a method available to anyone who wants to use it.

Especially since many of us subscribers haven't had our product shipped yet...

[Nefreet]

If you read up thread, you'll see I didn't know what or when the "street date" was when I posted. It certainly wasn't on my mind when I saw the book on the shelf.

[neferphras]

Chris or Michael, i was wondering is we can have an addition resources update on the following:

Spell-Like Abilities as Spells: Does a creature with a spell-like ability count as having that spell on its spell list for the purpose of activating spell completion or spell trigger items?
No. A spell-like ability is not a spell, having a spell-like ability is not part of a class's spell list, and therefore doesn't give the creature the ability to activate spell completion or spell trigger items.

—Sean K Reynolds, 08/22/11 Back to Top

Spell-Like Abilities, Casting, and Prerequisites: Does a creature with a spell-like ability count as being able to cast that spell for the purpose of prerequisites or requirements?
Yes.
For example, the Dimensional Agility feat (Ultimate Combat) has "ability to use the abundant step class feature or cast dimension door" as a prerequisite; a barghest has dimension door as a spell-like ability, so the barghest meets the "able to cast dimension door prerequisite for that feat.

Edit 7/12/13: The design team is aware that the above answer means that certain races can gain access to some spellcaster prestige classes earlier than the default minimum (character level 6). Given that prestige classes are usually a sub-optimal character choice (especially for spellcasters), the design team is allowing this FAQ ruling for prestige classes. If there is in-play evidence that this ruling is creating characters that are too powerful, the design team may revisit whether or not to allow spell-like abilities to count for prestige class requirements.

—Pathfinder Design Team, 06/06/13

So thats what it says right now, and reading through it i can see great opportunity for confusion when it comes to feats that require one to cast a spell. In fact a GM i have great respect feels that the example using Dimensional Agility infers that you can use a spell like ability, Such as comp languages of an elf envoy trait, or a gnomes base racial spell like abilities, to qualify for feats like arcane strike.

Arcane Strike: Prerequisite: Ability to cast arcane spells.

You have ruling one, saying-spell likes are not a spell, followed immediately buy ruling two, saying spell likes can satisfy preqs. Its going to be confusing.

What i believe the correct interpretation is:
Spell like abilities are A CAST, so if a feat requires you to be able to CAST spell x, then a spell like can satisfy it.

However they are not a spell (per what Sean stated), so if the feat preq mentions divine or arcane 'SPELL' then a spell like ability will not cut it.

having the two rules, which on the surface can lead to different conclusions, is confusing. Can we add a bullet to clear it up, or add to one of them to clear it up, even if my reading of this is incorrect. I can just see this coming up on a PFS character audit.

btw i did try to find an answer to this in rules first, different threads lead different conclusions and referenced different FAQ points so its a mess in rules.

[John Compton]

neferphras wrote:

Request for clarifications

Neferphras, what you're asking for sounds more like a clarification for the rules team, not an entry for Additional Resources (which covers primarily what character options are available from which books).

[neferphras]

John Compton wrote:

neferphras wrote:

Request for clarifications

Neferphras, what you're asking for sounds more like a clarification for the rules team, not an entry for Additional Resources (which covers primarily what character options are available from which books). [/QUOTE

I will definitely take a clarification from the rules team. I tried to find something in rules on this and different threads used different FAQ bullets and lead to different conclusions, so it was not helpful. I just dont want this to come up at a pfs event as an audit issue because i like gaming with the person in question. So trying to prevent the audit issue anyway i can.

[CRobledo]

Edit: on top of that, what John said.

neferphras wrote:

So thats what it says right now, and reading through it i can see great opportunity for confusion when it comes to feats that require one to cast a spell. In fact a GM i have great respect feels that the example using Dimensional Agility infers that you can use a spell like ability, Such as comp languages of an elf envoy trait, or a gnomes base racial spell like abilities, to qualify for feats like arcane strike.

Nefer, this is probably a topic for another thread, but currently that GM is correct. You CAN qualify for Arcane Strike by having a racial SLA.

[neferphras]

CRobledo wrote:

Edit: on top of that, what John said.

neferphras wrote:

So thats what it says right now, and reading through it i can see great opportunity for confusion when it comes to feats that require one to cast a spell. In fact a GM i have great respect feels that the example using Dimensional Agility infers that you can use a spell like ability, Such as comp languages of an elf envoy trait, or a gnomes base racial spell like abilities, to qualify for feats like arcane strike.

Nefer, this is probably a topic for another thread, but currently that GM is correct. You CAN qualify for Arcane Strike by having a racial SLA.

if thats the answer cool. again rules forum is all over the place on this topic.

[Crystal Frasier]

October products have been added to the Additional Resources page.

The Stalking the Beast chronicle will be added at a later date.

[GreySector]

Here are some fixes for the next revision of Additional Resources.

Ultimate Combat wrote:

A cavalier of 4th level or higher may take the Horse Master trait, ignoring the expert trainer class feature. A cavalier who trades this class feature for another as part of an archetype can not take the Horse Master feat.

Horse master is a feat, not a trait, so the first bolded word should be changed from trait to feat.

Pathfinder Adventure Path: Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition wrote:

Spells: Blood money, covetous aura, deathwine, raiment of command, sign of wrath, swipe, and unconscious agenda

All of those spells should be italicized, and blood money should not be capitalized.

[jcederberg]

Bestiary 4 coming soon? I don't know how I will ever get by if I can't have my trusty giraffe companion by my side. :P

[Nefreet]

Lol, I seriously just bought three Giraffe toys to mount on bases. I was probably too happy to see them in there.

[Illeist]

Any more news on Bestiary 4 as an additional resource?

[Chris Lambertz]

The information for the Advanced Class Guide Playtest is now available on the Additional Resources page.

[CRobledo]

Loose scribe scroll, get nothing back? Sheesh, harsh!

[Dylos]

Carlos Robledo wrote:

Loose scribe scroll, get nothing back? Sheesh, harsh!

I'm sure that is subject to change.

[John Compton]

Dylos wrote:

Carlos Robledo wrote:

Loose scribe scroll, get nothing back? Sheesh, harsh!

I'm sure that is subject to change.

Subject to change, yes, but it's not entirely reasonable to assign replacements when a) the core mechanics are subject to change, which would b) mean changing out or removing a replacement feat that one might use as a prerequisite, thereby forcing one to rebuild the character; that's to say nothing of c) Mike and I still having not settled on exactly what we would want to have replacing those feats at this time, as an archaist makes sense to receive Spell Focus, but the skald is open to some more pondering.

It's all a part of the playtest process.

[Nefreet]

...any ideas on when Bestiary 4 will be available?

My Saurian Shaman is anxious to wildshape into a Dimorphodon =D

[Apocryphile]

I just had an idea regarding the new acg classes. If you want some good playtest information at the mid levels, release a boon which allows a PC to retrain their base class levels into an appropriate hybrid class (ranger into hunter for example). The retraining should be reversible at the end of the playtest if desired.

Then the high-mid level playtest info you get would be all off PFS scenarios. Just a thought..

[Benrislove]

more on the subject of playing characters are more levels for the playtest.

Can you open "campaign mode" to all the modules? It would allow people to play the new classes at various different levels. without breaking the normal PFS structure.

With campaign mode coming out for new modules, as well as AP sanctioned portions I don't think it would really change much.

[Michael Brock]

We aren't going to open campaign mode for all modules. We aren't going to let people just change characters on a whim and then back again. Nethier was needed for previous play tests and they aren't needed now.

[Finlanderboy]

Will we have the option to change out of the play test classes when it is finished?

[Michael Brock]

Finlanderboy wrote:

Will we have the option to change out of the play test classes when it is finished?

Only through the retraining rules as they are currently laid out.

[Mattastrophic]

Michael Brock wrote:

We aren't going to open campaign mode for all modules. We aren't going to let people just change characters on a whim and then back again. Nethier was needed for previous play tests and they aren't needed now.

Just to clarify...

Do you mean "all PFS scenarios and sanctioned modules" there, or "all sanctioned modules?"

Because, from my experiences with sanctioned modules, they were kinda written with "Campaign Mode" in mind, the intention being that they are overlaid onto an existing campaign, and the experience would improve if Campaign Mode were opened up for them.

-Matt

[Paz]

'Campaign mode' was only given as an option because APs and 64-page modules are so far away from normal PFS assumptions that things would begin to break down if you tried to play them fully with normal PFS rules.

Mattastrophic wrote:

from my experiences with sanctioned modules, they were kinda written with "Campaign Mode" in mind, the intention being that they are overlaid onto an existing campaign, and the experience would improve if Campaign Mode were opened up for them.

If you're playing a bunch of modules as a campaign, why do you need PFS credit at all? Modules were sanctioned to give people additional material to play with their PFS characters when there was a perceived shortage of scenarios. If you don't want to play them with PFS characters, what's the relevance of the PFS rules?

[Steve Shippy aka Beerwolf]

Has any thought been given to making a 1st, 4th, and 7th level versions of all the classes for the play test and let folks use them like an iconic? Which would allow folks to apply the scenario to a character AND produce feedback on the new classes?

It would help with the higher level play testing of these classes.

[CRobledo]

Steve Shippy aka Beerwolf wrote:

Has any thought been given to making a 1st, 4th, and 7th level versions of all the classes for the play test and let folks use them like an iconic? Which would allow folks to apply the scenario to a character AND produce feedback on the new classes?

It would help with the higher level play testing of these classes.

I disagree that this would be a good idea.

First, we still dont have iconics for APG, and UM classes.

Second, this is the ADVANCED Class Guide. A pregen's #1 customer is new players. I seriously do not want a new player showing up to my table saying they just downloaded these and it looked cool, so he printed it and brought it.

Third, part of the playtest is tot est differnt builds and different ideas on how these classes can work. If they suddenly get a lot of data from a lot of people using the exact same build, it may skew their feedback.

[Bbauzh ap Aghauzh]

Mattastrophic wrote:

Paz wrote:

If you're playing a bunch of modules as a campaign, why do you need PFS credit at all? Modules were sanctioned to give people additional material to play with their PFS characters when there was a perceived shortage of scenarios. If you don't want to play them with PFS characters, what's the relevance of the PFS rules?

Respectfully, that question is one I've asked and worked through myself, and really has no bearing on the question of clarification I have asked.

-Matt

Please explain the relevance then.

[Apocryphile]

Michael Brock wrote:

We aren't going to let people just change characters on a whim and then back again.

I wasn't really thinking of it as a whim, more of giving a player with an established PC the chance to try the new class, and to provide feedback on the play experience in a PFS scenario beyond level 1.

But fair enough.

[Spaarky]

Here is an idea. Make a group of level (whatever) and run it through a PFS scenario, now you would not get credit, but you could certainly test it in a pfs setting and give the valuable feedback you are so desperate to give with higher level characters.

[Tigerkralle]

Is that right, that all elven equipment in the "Advanced Race Guid" are not legal?

I just want a hanging tent and a bear bag for my elven fighter. :(

The compact spellbook weights only 1 lbs. thats very useful for Wizards with a strenght score of 10 or less...

The Arcane Family Workbook would be nice to have for my wizard.

And yes the "Artificer's Lab, Portable" is something that's not legal in PFS. ;)

So why is the elven equipment not legal in PFS?

And yes i'm not a native speaker in english so the grammar could be weird.

[Nefreet]

Tigerkralle wrote:

The compact spellbook weights only 1 lbs. thats very useful for Wizards with a strenght score of 10 or less...

I believe there's a traveling spellbook in the APG that is basically the same thing.

[redward]

Point of clarification:

Quote:

All ten classes...are legal for play so long as you have a print or PDF version of the playtest document...players using these playtest options are expected to frequently monitor the Pathfinder Society messageboards for changes while playing these classes during the playtest.

Does this mean that PCs should be using the class only as reflected in the playtest document, or should players be incorporating changes as they are posted in the class discussions? For example, should a PFS Arcanist be using Blood Focus (the original Arcanist) or Arcane Reservoir/Exploits (the revised Arcanist)?

[Tony Lindman]

It is my understanging that the officially posted revisions are considered part of "the playtest document". This does mean that you could find a character requiring changes through the course of the playtest (such as happened with Arcanist).

[CRobledo]

Tony Lindman wrote:

It is my understanging that the officially posted revisions are considered part of "the playtest document". This does mean that you could find a character requiring changes through the course of the playtest (such as happened with Arcanist).

This. You are actually expected to keep track of all official changes to your playtest classes.

Looks like Paizo is going to do major updates on the playtest on Tuesdays, so you should keep an eye out then.

[Chris Lambertz]

A reminder: let's keep this thread strictly about updates to the Additional Resources to keep it easier to sort through, please.

[Ellias Aubec]

I think the playtest addition resources section needs to be updated. The arcanist no longer gets the scribe scroll, but they do have an item crafting exploit that should probably be banned. Possibly a few others.

[thistledown]

I'm a bit confused on how the acg classes work with additional resources. Once the play test ends, if you have a character with acg class levels, can you not play the character any more until the book comes out in August? Or do you replace the acg levels with normal levels? Or do you just keep playing with the last printed version? If the last, can you continue to level up in the acg class or do you have to take other classes until august?

[Pirate Rob]

thistledown wrote:

I'm a bit confused on how the acg classes work with additional resources. Once the play test ends, if you have a character with acg class levels, can you not play the character any more until the book comes out in August? Or do you replace the acg levels with normal levels? Or do you just keep playing with the last printed version? If the last, can you continue to level up in the acg class or do you have to take other classes until august?

IF it works like previous playtests. The characters and all playtest materials will be legal until the book comes out. At which point the playtest material will stop being legal and characters with playtest material must be updated to the new material, updating only aspects of their character that changed.

I have no reason to believe this one will work any differently, but you never know.

[Michael Brock]

Pirate Rob wrote:

thistledown wrote:

I'm a bit confused on how the acg classes work with additional resources. Once the play test ends, if you have a character with acg class levels, can you not play the character any more until the book comes out in August? Or do you replace the acg levels with normal levels? Or do you just keep playing with the last printed version? If the last, can you continue to level up in the acg class or do you have to take other classes until august?

IF it works like previous playtests. The characters and all playtest materials will be legal until the book comes out. At which point the playtest material will stop being legal and characters with playtest material must be updated to the new material, updating only aspects of their character that changed.

I have no reason to believe this one will work any differently, but you never know.

^^^THIS

[thistledown]

Great!

[Chris Lambertz]

Additional resources has been updated.