Aspis consortium Silver Badge Cost?

[CanineCascade8]

Hi there, this is my First post on paizo. :-)

I recently took part in a low tier game which involved the Aspis consortium (both minions and a boss) and retrieved a Silver Aspis Consortium badge (from the Boss) which when I checked with my GM & VC was okayed to keep as long as I could track down how much it Cost & pay for it.

The purpose of the Badge is that I have a Barbarian Breaker archetype character who likes to Smash & Sunder everything and tells npc's that it's ok, he's with the Aspis consortium & flashes the badge.

Have searched the Paizo boards And modules and have found that a Bronze Aspis Consortium badge costs 1 GP But I can't find a price for a Silver Badge...

Does anyone have any ideas How Much a Silver Aspis Consortium Badge Costs??

[Chris Mortika]

I would consider it a Masterwork Tool (+2 circumstance bonus) for Bluffling people about an Aspis Consortium affiliation. A more general purposes Masterwork Tool costs 50 gp. So, 50 gp, or maybe 25 in recognition that this is a much more limited tool.

[Dan Luckett]

I'm in the same vein of thought that Chris is. Though, I lack the RAW knowledge to know if the 25gp is right, or even doable. Either way, the 50gp would at minimum do the trick.

[Jiggy]

Careful not to stray into "custom items" territory. But if you buy a Masterwork Tool (bluff) and simply choose to only use it in relation to the Aspis Consortium, you're golden! :)

[Don Walker]

I'm of the mind that if these badges are not listed on the Chronicle sheet then they are not available to PCs. I assume Pathfinders would turn them over to the Society.

[Dan Luckett]

Though, there are Masterwork tools Don that would do it, all he's doing it making it only for one Faction which is more limited than it normally would be. I don't see how that's a bad thing. I smell no cheese, and lots of green fresh RP.

[Jiggy]

Daniel Luckett wrote:

I smell no cheese, and lots of green fresh RP.

Hm, I imagine RP more like pasta or a delicious burger.

[nosig]

isn't this drifting into the realm of GM? not that I would question the above replies to the OP, but ... perhaps a Bronze badge would work for the RP purpuses.
I seem to recall a faction mission where the PCs are tasked with recovering a silver badge. Perhaps "the powers that be" are limiting access to the silver badges, and the Ten are grabbing up all the silver ones they can get their hands on. In any event, perhaps we should not make the GM call here - just wait to see what M&M say on it.

Also, the Masterwork Tool would weigh in at 1 pound... which would make this a big piece of jewelry.

NOW, all that said - I see no reason NOT to get a Masterwork Tool bluff made. One that looks like an original Silver Badge (but is a copy), in a stylish carrying case, that wieghs in at 1 lb. Perhaps it even has several different Badges (Legion of Man, Eagle Knights, Order of the Nail, ... pick your organization).... Now that has potential.

[Jiggy]

nosig wrote:

Perhaps it even has several different Badges (Legion of Man, Eagle Knights, Order of the Nail, ... pick your organization).... Now that has potential.

Ooh, I like it...

[nosig]

Jiggy wrote:

nosig wrote:

Perhaps it even has several different Badges (Legion of Man, Eagle Knights, Order of the Nail, ... pick your organization).... Now that has potential.

Ooh, I like it...

and because we have GM ruleing on MW tools - this should be very little YMMV in going from table to table.

[CanineCascade8]

nosig wrote:

isn't this drifting into the realm of GM? not that I would question the above replies to the OP, but ... perhaps a Bronze badge would work for the RP purpuses.

I seem to recall a faction mission where the PCs are tasked with recovering a silver badge. Perhaps "the powers that be" are limiting access to the silver badges, and the Ten are grabbing up all the silver ones they can get their hands on. In any event, perhaps we should not make the GM call here - just wait to see what M&M say on it.

From everything I have read on the Paizo website, the Aspis consortium agents have 3 lvls of badges:

Bronze for local members, (low responsibility - recruit)
Silver for small Area/town bosses (medium responsibility - Veteran)
Gold for large-scale operations (high responsibility - strategic command)

The reason behind pursuing a Silver Badge is that my character wants to pass off blame for smashing stuff onto the Aspis Consortium (the enemy/competition).
My understanding is that a character carrying a Silver badge in an unfamiliar area would be more likely to be able to bluff locals & local Aspis Agents into believing him to be genuinely doing under orders from theoretical big bosses than an unfamiliar out-of-town guy smashing stuff and flashing his bronze badge... aka a veteran is trusted more than a recruit.

The idea of a MW Tool for 50 GP as the cost of Aspis Consortium Silver Badge sounds good but will wait for more responses as someone may know an official paizo PFS Silver badge price. Happy to pay almost any price...

[Jiggy]

Reledhel wrote:

someone may know an official paizo PFS Silver badge price.

If you're looking for an Aspis Badge as a pre-existing item, you have two options: find where it's listed in the Core Assumption (CRB or Field Guide), or look for it in all legal Additional Resources you own.

If you can't find it, it doesn't exist in the capaign as a purchasable item that you could keep from scenario to scenario.

That pretty much leaves you with the Masterwork Tool (bluff) item from the CRB, fluffing it as a silver Aspis Badge.

[nosig]

I can recall one scenario with a faction mission to retrieve a Silver badge... the reason I recall it, we were unable to find it in the write-up (even the Judge was unable to find it, as he went back thru each write-up and checked each agent for what color badge they had). The Judge finally found a senior agent that had no badge listed - and concluded that HE must have the silver one (thus getting "the cookie" for the faction mission).

But even that one did not list the price... at least not that I recall.

[MisterSlanky]

nosig wrote:

I can recall one scenario with a faction mission to retrieve a Silver badge... the reason I recall it, we were unable to find it in the write-up (even the Judge was unable to find it, as he went back thru each write-up and checked each agent for what color badge they had). The Judge finally found a senior agent that had no badge listed - and concluded that HE must have the silver one (thus getting "the cookie" for the faction mission).

But even that one did not list the price... at least not that I recall.

Spoiler:

To Scale the Dragon. In fact it's sewn into the clerics vestments is in the flavor text, not the developments block. It took me 5 minutes to find it.

[nosig]

Ryan Bolduan wrote:

nosig wrote:

I can recall one scenario with a faction mission to retrieve a Silver badge... the reason I recall it, we were unable to find it in the write-up (even the Judge was unable to find it, as he went back thru each write-up and checked each agent for what color badge they had). The Judge finally found a senior agent that had no badge listed - and concluded that HE must have the silver one (thus getting "the cookie" for the faction mission).

But even that one did not list the price... at least not that I recall.

** spoiler omitted **

yep, that's the one. does it list a price?

[MisterSlanky]

nosig wrote:

Ryan Bolduan wrote:

nosig wrote:

I can recall one scenario with a faction mission to retrieve a Silver badge... the reason I recall it, we were unable to find it in the write-up (even the Judge was unable to find it, as he went back thru each write-up and checked each agent for what color badge they had). The Judge finally found a senior agent that had no badge listed - and concluded that HE must have the silver one (thus getting "the cookie" for the faction mission).

But even that one did not list the price... at least not that I recall.

** spoiler omitted **

yep, that's the one. does it list a price?

Nope. My guess? 1sp ;-)

[Kyrie Ebonblade]

Don Walker wrote:

I'm of the mind that if these badges are not listed on the Chronicle sheet then they are not available to PCs. I assume Pathfinders would turn them over to the Society.

I simply said my character collected them, till I paid for a MW tool for intimidate (a Kapanenia full of badges with bullet holes) THEN I paid for a benefit for it.

[Azothath]

just buy Masterwork tool $50 state the skill and then the description (aka fluff) and then bonus. Nobody will have an issue with that.
I would think a bronze badge would be more appropriate. Otherwise you risk, "Hey, I don't remember YOU ever giving a talk at the briefing!"... not that the Aspis are suspicious murder hobos...

With year 7's theme we might see some more boons in this thematic area...

If you get a fake (which any silver badge would probably be) make sure it's marzipan so you can eat the evidence... *mmrph**gulp* what badge?

[chris manning]

there is a current scenario in which some of the Aspis have fake badges...

[nosig]

????

What's with all the tread necro's?

[Azothath]

as Paizo does not archive old threads in a data mausoleum technically there's no necro's.

[Quintin Verassi]

Badges? We don't need no stinking badges!

[Wei Ji the Learner]

nosig wrote:

????

What's with all the tread necro's?

As new people show up, do searches, find forum information, don't see the date of the thread, and then post to the thread, thus old threads become new.

[Lorewalker]

Yes, it's really more of a conjuration(healing) at that point.

[zefig]

Breath of Life!

[Giamo Casanunda]

zefig wrote:

Breath of Life!

more than 4 years is a long time for BoL...

[nosig]

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

nosig wrote:

????

What's with all the tread necro's?

As new people show up, do searches, find forum information, don't see the date of the thread, and then post to the thread, thus old threads become new.

oh, I know HOW, and even understand WHY some... my question was more about why ALL (or almost all) the Threads on the PFS board were necros of old threads. It's like no one had anything new to say...

Not a problem with old threads - sometimes it's good to re-hash old stuff.

[Flutter]

We played a scenario where the society was being impersonated.

"Ok, we don't want to get pathfinders into more trouble when we burn things down so...

"We don't burn things down?

"no! everyone put on your aspis badge

3/4s of the party has them and pins them on

A players showed up late and hopped in after the mission briefing, says they're a pathfinder and they're here to help

"If you're really a pathfinder... where's your aspis badge?

We weren't convinced he was a pathfinder till he said that drendle drang woke him up at 4 am.

[nosig]

In one game, we ran a bluff that we were an Aspis Team posing as a Pathfinder team - which explained why we had a few Wayfinders with us, and no Aspis badges.

"It would blow our cover to be carrying our Badges - so we left them back at Base.
"And we didn't have enough Wayfinders to go around, so we are making do with the ones we could get ahold of. Now, we need you to help with the cover story... remember, a gang of Pathfinders came to talk to you..." {wink-wink} "...totally not an Aspis team."

The funniest part was one of the players kept getting mixed up and saying she was a Pathfinder and the NPCs would just say something like "Yeah, I got that"...

Yeah - we were Pathfinders, claiming to be Aspis agents posing as Pathfinders...see we have a couple Wayfinders...

[nosig]

this happened in a home game, so maybe is out of place on the PFS board, but it makes a nice story.

Setting is: the Group of PCs (delivery men) shortly after entering an old ruined temple, are ambushed without warning by a group from hiding.

Player #1:"who the heck are these guys and what kind of people attack without warning?"
Player #2: "Pathfinders!"
Player #3: "Damn Murder Hobos..."
Player #4: "Check the bodies for Wayfinders..."

[CBDunkerson]

According to the Faction Guide actually achieving 'silver rank', which includes being presented with a 'free' silver badge, in the Aspis Consortium requires 20 CPA / 20 TPA.

Sadly, no GP cost for the item itself.

[Azouth]

Try the Pathfinder Greatcoat . It is not the cheapest way to get a silver Aspis Consortium badge but it has other useful items.

[Azothath]

Azouth wrote:

Try the Pathfinder Greatcoat . It is not the cheapest way to get a silver Aspis Consortium badge but it has other useful items.

those NPC crafters have been busy again! lol

Pathfinder Greatcoat PFSP charges[21] $8000... [1] A silver Aspis Consortium badge and three bronze Aspis Consortium badges.
Everything else seems to be priced, so it's just a matter of backtracking.

[BartonOliver]

Stephen Ross wrote:

Azouth wrote:

Try the Pathfinder Greatcoat . It is not the cheapest way to get a silver Aspis Consortium badge but it has other useful items.

those NPC crafters have been busy again! lol

Pathfinder Greatcoat PFSP charges[21] $8000... [1] A silver Aspis Consortium badge and three bronze Aspis Consortium badges.
Everything else seems to be priced, so it's just a matter of backtracking.

Not quite (technically there's no price I can find for cloth or mirrors that big - a small mirror is 10gp though which I used.) But I once priced everything I could find out, and ended up at just under 2400 gp. Maybe double that 'to make the patches count as slotless' (which is a huge stretch) and call the coat a handy haversack (for the carrying) and the badges and items that are missing worth 1200 gp or so. Which seems like a stretch. That Greatcoat is cool and is a good reminder of things Pathfinders should have (at least at a certain point in their career), but, oh boy, is it overpriced.

Pathfinder Greatcoat Item Pricing:

10 trail rations (10 * 5 sp) and 5 waterskins (5*1gp) -10gp
5 adamantine bolts (5*60.1gp), 5 cold iron bolts (5*.2gp) 2 silver bolts (2*2.1gp) = 305.7gp
Large scroll case (2 (for size)*1gp), 2'*10' paper (13.33 (height) * 4 (width)* 4 sp - to extrapolate paper of that size), and 2 charcoal sticks (2*.5gp) - 24.33 gp
5 adamantine arrows (5*60.05gp), 5 cold iron bolts (5*.1gp) 2 silver bolts (2*2.05gp) = 304.85gp
10 yd. canvas (??) 10 pitons (10 * 1 sp), hammer (5sp) - 1.5gp + cloth
Silver Aspis badge and 3 Bronze Badges - ??
2 Bullseye Lanterns (full and lit) (2 * 12gp) - 24gp
2 Daggers (2*2gp) - 4gp
Disguise Kit - 50gp
Healer's Kit - 50gp
2 Hemp Ropes (2 * 1gp) - 2 gp
Light Combat trained horse (110gp) and a military saddle (20gp) - 130gp
2 Mirrors (2'*4') (best guess = small mirror 2*10gp) - 20gp
Noble's Outfit (75gp) with 200 gp of jewelry (200 gp) - 275gp
Oil of Bless Weapon - 50 gp
Oil of Daylight - 750gp
2 Poles (2*5cp) - .1gp
Potion of Cure Moderate Wounds - 300 gp
2 Sacks (2*.1gp) - .2gp
Universal Solvent - 50gp
Wand of Prestidigitation 5 charges (375/50 * 5)- 37.5 gp

Total - 2389.18 gp (and some missing stuff)

[Azothath]

Stephen Ross wrote:

Azouth wrote:

Try the Pathfinder Greatcoat . It is not the cheapest way to get a silver Aspis Consortium badge but it has other useful items.

those NPC crafters have been busy again! lol

Pathfinder Greatcoat PFSP charges[21] $8000... [1] A silver Aspis Consortium badge and three bronze Aspis Consortium badges.
Everything else seems to be priced, so it's just a matter of backtracking.

I calculate the badges are worth $1109.65(GP) using the $4000 crafting cost.

I estimated:

cost and item
5+5 10 days of trail rations and five full waterskins
305.7 A case containing five adamantine bolts 5(60+0.1), five cold iron bolts 5*2*0.1, and two silver bolts 2*(2+0.1)
2+11.3+1 A large scroll case (thanks Joe 2*$1) containing a 2-foot-by-10-foot roll of paper and two sticks of charcoal {paper is let's say standard 8.5/11, so every 24"*8.5" costs 2 pages}
304.85 A quiver containing five adamantine arrows5(60+0.05), five cold iron arrows5*2*0.05, and two silver arrows 2*(2+0.05)
1+1+0.5 A 10-square-yard roll of canvas containing 10 pitons and a small hammer
1109.65 A silver Aspis Consortium badge and three bronze Aspis Consortium badges
24+0.2 Bullseye lanterns (2; full and lit)
4 Daggers (2)
50 Disguise kit
50 Healer’s kit
2 Hemp ropes (2; 50-foot coil)
110+20 Light combat-trained horse with a military saddle
~80 Mirrors (2; highly polished 2-foot-by-4-foot steel mirrors) {if small mirrors are 10, then med are 20 and large are 40}
275 Noble’s outfit with jewelry worth 200 gold pieces (both or just the jewelry?...lol, let's go whole hog and say it's just the accessories)
50 Oil of bless weapon
750 Oil of daylight
0.1 Poles (2; 10-foot length)
750 Potion of cure moderate wounds
0.2 Sacks (2)
50 Universal solvent
37.5 Wand of prestidigitation (CL 1st, 5 charges)

[BartonOliver]

Stephen Ross wrote:

Stephen Ross wrote:

Azouth wrote:

Try the Pathfinder Greatcoat . It is not the cheapest way to get a silver Aspis Consortium badge but it has other useful items.

those NPC crafters have been busy again! lol

Pathfinder Greatcoat PFSP charges[21] $8000... [1] A silver Aspis Consortium badge and three bronze Aspis Consortium badges.
Everything else seems to be priced, so it's just a matter of backtracking.

I calculate the badges are worth $1109.65(GP) using the $4000 crafting cost.

** spoiler omitted **

More or less what I got - seems high IMO. Also as a note Cure Moderate Potion is only 300gp not 750. Oh and I took the sheets of paper from the APG which are 9" by 6". I like the thought on the mirro pricing though, makes sense.

[Azothath]

Stephen Ross wrote:

Azouth wrote:

Try the Pathfinder Greatcoat . It is not the cheapest way to get a silver Aspis Consortium badge but it has other useful items.

those NPC crafters have been busy again! lol

Pathfinder Greatcoat PFSP charges[21] $8000... [1] A silver Aspis Consortium badge and three bronze Aspis Consortium badges.
Everything else seems to be priced, so it's just a matter of backtracking.

edit(yep, 2nd not 3rd lvl potion) - I calculate the badges are worth $1559.65(GP) using the $4000 crafting cost.

** spoiler omitted **

technically with Fabricate, it's just some raw materials and a skill check...lol... so the crafter is doing quite well... I'm still wondering how he got the LIVE horse in there... hmmm... ahh well...

[Azouth]

I agree the price is high but compared to the Robe of "Useful" Items it is only 1,000gp more and has better stuff.

[CBDunkerson]

Joe Ducey wrote:

More or less what I got - seems high IMO.

Keep in mind that there is likely some additional value assigned to each of the items for the fact that they are magically stored, weigh nothing, and are undetectable by anyone other than the wearer. Not to mention that the coat itself would be worth something.

[Azothath]

for PFS Play I can't recommend either coat/robe as cost effective. While tricks are fun and handy these things are single use charged items that are expensive. Most of the effects/items can be reproduced by a caster using a Handy Haversack, Shrink Item, various summonings, Wall of Stone(shapeable), pit spells, etc. So really more for rouges and bards with excess gold.

The point was to price out the silver aspis badge. I don't think it's a big surprise they came out overpriced.

In a home game I'd price it at $25 (like a silver holy symbol) but due to it's nature probably retails for $125-200 on the black market. Again as a mstrwrok tool $50 is usual but half cost($25) makes sense due to it's limited use. Bronze badges I'd put at $2 but again retail for $10 as that'll get you in the door (past a badge check) and that's all most rogues want. Only spys or fools would want to be in the command hierarchy as the odds of you getting discovered are higher and the penalties if caught much more severe.
If I were the Aspis you wouldn't get a bronze badge until after a year of service or you proved your loyalty (aka got us a big haul). Maybe the Aspis should have d6s made with their logo...

[surfbored]

Per Archives of Nethys (quoting page 8 of the Inner Sea NPC codex), silver Aspis badges are worth 25gp.

[John Compton]

The answer to the original question is that they're not for sale, much as wayfinders are very hard to procure for non-Pathfinders. Chalk it up to limited supply and the Consortium taking countermeasures to change up the design to counter PCs taking badges and causing trouble.

Were the Aspis Consortium badge a completely innocuous piece of metal with no special connotations, I wouldn't mind people collecting them and waving them around; it makes an interesting bit of continuity. However, there are non-numeric benefits that accompany the possession of an Aspis badge, making the clever workaround of purchasing one as a masterwork tool for Bluff or Disguise deceptively potent—at least for an ongoing campaign in which the Aspis Consortium features regularly as a rival. Holding onto badges is a little like dragging around a corpse from a previous adventure for the purposes of animate dead; it's something that might make sense in a home game but throws off the expectations in the organized play environment.

There's at least one scenario that lends the PCs Aspis Consortium badges. The Pathfinder greatcoat is otherwise a unique source for pristine badges. PCs are welcome to keep defaced badges (e.g. a string of bullet-riddled badges, a bronze mace forged from badge copper, or a set of alchemical silver arrows tipped with sharpened badges) as trophies or other mementos.

[Da Goblin]

John Compton wrote:

The answer to the original question is that they're not for sale, much as wayfinders are very hard to procure for non-Pathfinders. Chalk it up to limited supply and the Consortium taking countermeasures to change up the design to counter PCs taking badges and causing trouble.

Were the Aspis Consortium badge a completely innocuous piece of metal with no special connotations, I wouldn't mind people collecting them and waving them around; it makes an interesting bit of continuity. However, there are non-numeric benefits that accompany the possession of an Aspis badge, making the clever workaround of purchasing one as a masterwork tool for Bluff or Disguise deceptively potent—at least for an ongoing campaign in which the Aspis Consortium features regularly as a rival. Holding onto badges is a little like dragging around a corpse from a previous adventure for the purposes of animate dead; it's something that might make sense in a home game but throws off the expectations in the organized play environment.

There's at least one scenario that lends the PCs Aspis Consortium badges. The Pathfinder greatcoat is otherwise a unique source for pristine badges. PCs are welcome to keep defaced badges (e.g. a string of bullet-riddled badges, a bronze mace forged from badge copper, or a set of alchemical silver arrows tipped with sharpened badges) as trophies or other mementos.

I do have several PCs with masterwork tools for Bluff or Disguise that I present as Aspis Consortium badges - should I not be using those? I am normally careful to point out to the judge that the ones I have are FAKES (hopefully good ones at 50 gp each), and I'm only using them as Masterwork tools for my skill rolls. I've got them for both Bluff & Disguise (costed as 50gp + 50gp) and I've been planning to pick one up for Diplomacy (for use in Gather Information checks) and maybe for Intimidate...

[Mike Lindner]

As a GM I have allowed the PCs to borrow Aspis badges from a VC when appropriate. I have also done the same as a player. Is this acceptable or should it not be allowed unless explicitly provided for in the scenario?

[LoPan666]

So, if a badge is listed in the possessions of an Aspis Consortium member in a scenario and a PC tries to keep it at the end, is it then confiscated by the Pathfinder Society, unless damaged to the point it can no longer be used to identify oneself as an Aspis agent?

[Wei Ji the Learner]

Pete Winz wrote:

So, if a badge is listed in the possessions of an Aspis Consortium member in a scenario and a PC tries to keep it at the end, is it then confiscated by the Pathfinder Society, unless damaged to the point it can no longer be used to identify oneself as an Aspis agent?

Oh, dangit! *fails Will save to not comment*

What would prevent someone in such a case from 'damaging' such a badge in one scenario and then using 'Mending' in a different one to 'restore it' then damaging it again so it is in the same state it started the scenario, lather, rinse, repeat?

*apologizes for asking the painful question*

[Drahliana Moonrunner]

Don Walker wrote:

I'm of the mind that if these badges are not listed on the Chronicle sheet then they are not available to PCs. I assume Pathfinders would turn them over to the Society.

That's correct. if a badge is available, it will be on the Chronicle sheet, which has happened in the past.

[Vinyc Kettlebek]

Mike Lindner wrote:

As a GM I have allowed the PCs to borrow Aspis badges from a VC when appropriate. I have also done the same as a player. Is this acceptable or should it not be allowed unless explicitly provided for in the scenario?

You should not be giving out free equipment to players during an adventure. Unless the adventure specifically mentions that an NPC gives it to them. There are adventures where the VC gifts the party a bag of goodies during the briefing for use on the mission.

[GreySector]

Stephen Ross wrote:

just buy Masterwork tool $50...

Pet peeve alert. There are no $ on Golarion.

[BigNorseWolf]

Pete Winz wrote:

So, if a badge is listed in the possessions of an Aspis Consortium member in a scenario and a PC tries to keep it at the end, is it then confiscated by the Pathfinder Society, unless damaged to the point it can no longer be used to identify oneself as an Aspis agent?

Perhaps they coil themselves into different patterns on a daily/hourly basis to prevent forgeries?