Was the Never ending quiver an item that was lost in the transition and if so is there anything similar named different or will I just have to custom make it? Our Druid gets frustrated when the DM says did you subtract your arrows and from my memory a never ending quiver isn't that expensive. I just took craft wonderous and figure I can make her one for a thousand gold or so.
Also there was a 4th ed. item called pouch of platinum. It converted coins and gems into the equal value in platinum. Is there anything like it or similar in Pathfinder? While coin weight is ignored in our campaign it would be nice to just be able to convert it with a simple magic item. Maybe make it like a handy haversack coin pouch where you think I need 7 silver to pay for my room and meal and pull it out without having to pull out 1 platinum and have every broke starving villager stare at you. I haven't looked into making one, but most of the things I have read said there really isn't a spell to convert coins... so any suggestions?
For what its worth in my campaigns we don't track individual ammunition. Its kind of assumed that enough arrows are recovered - both arrows shot and arrows recovered from foes - to keep my players resupplied. Ditto things like water, basic rations, etc.
On extended campaigns where they don't have access to regular resupply (like in the Underdark, desert journeys, etc,), at an appropriate point I'll let them know that they are getting 'low on supplies' and if they don't make a successful effort to address the issue each day I'll roll a d6, determining:
1) Party is out of food.
2) Party is out of water.
3) Party is out of ranged ammunition of a particular type.
4) Party is out of general spell components.
5) No shortage.
6) No shortage.
I figure that's the best way to monitor it without actually monitoring it.
I dont see it being a problem, but the party likes to take for granted that the DM just lets us slide on a few to many things. So now just by saying did you mark off your arrows can make them feel like he is being a hard ass... However, at any moment in our current campaign setting we can resupply by simply taking 15 min out of the day to buy more. We stay in an inn in a large city nightly. So it really shouldn't be a problem, but in case it ever did come up it would be nice to just be like hey I have an never ending quiver I'm good.
The money is basically the same way. We often just say I hand the Inn keep 2 gold to pay for our room. does it matter that all I have is a coin pouch filled with silver? No, but would it be better to have a pouch where I can just say hey I give him 2 gold and it actually be 2 gold. These were basically just cosmetic things. I don't see our DM asking us to make perception checks while we sleep to catch someone breaking into our room to steal our coin pouch cause I pulled out platinum to pay 7 silver for a room and food. However, if I was DM I could totally see myself doing that just to add flare to the story. Maybe that is how you make a friend in the town and the inn keep suddenly remembers things about the questions you were asking around about now that you helped get rid of Sammy Stickyfingers. I have found that the most memorable parts of a game are the ones that no one is really prepared for. So in a "quest" type go here and kill these bandits if someone tries to rob you and there is suddenly a chase through the city... or if you get pickpocketed while you been drinking at the bar... then have to fight with lower physical stats it can be a nice fun change from the normal serious grind. Imaging trying to shoot a bow while drunk? not gonna happen DM rolls a d6 and you lose that much Dex for the fight. It can be both frustrating and funny. I think I just had an idea about my next DM'n session :)
If you're going to make it continuous anyway, just use caster level 1. (IIRC) The only benefit you get for the higher CL is that it makes it harder to dispel, which isn't worth tripling the price for.
There are plenty of items in the books at a lower caster level than the minimum for the feat. This is RAW and RAI. Phylactery of Faithfulness is the first item I happened to run across. But consider that a +1 sword is CL 3, while you must be CL 5 to get the feat.
Actually, a hat of disguise is a better example, since it is pretty much just a command-word spell item.
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This one comes up from time to time. Here's the solution:
Assuming you fire 6 arrows per round for 13 10-round encounters per level, a type I bag of holding with 750 gp worth of regular arrows (that's 15,000 arrows) will last your entire adventuring career levels 1-20. You won't actually shoot that many arrows.
If anyone can show cause for that I would love to see it, because there are a lot of spells i would use at a lower caster level to make items that would make anyone ridiculous.
The same text you quoted is located in the 3.5e rules as well, it was always possible to create an item lower than your own level.
Here's a link to the 3.5e magic item crafting rules. It's the 3rd paragraph in, and the exact same text; copy-pasted into Pathfinder's ruleset.
The only restriction on how low level the abundant ammunition based magic item has is that it's a 1st level spell.
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Assuming you fire 6 arrows per round for 13 10-round encounters per level, a type I bag of holding with 750 gp worth of regular arrows (that's 15,000 arrows) will last your entire adventuring career levels 1-20. You won't actually shoot that many arrows.
There are a number of incorrect assumptions here. My quick'n'dirty math gives me more around 12k arrows, considering you won't be able to afford the magic items needed here until you've spent a few levels. So I'll even be working will less than your number there.
So let's see what it takes to carry 12 thousand arrows on you easily...
First, we need these arrows in quivers, otherwise they will pierce the extra-dimensional bag. So at 20 arrows per quiver, that's 600 quivers of arrows.
At 3 lbs per quiver, that's 1800 lbs of weight. That's higher than the largest (Type IV bag is 1500 lbs limit).
So we are looking at two Type III bags (14,800gp), to handle these arrows.
Now, since it will take at least a move action to retrieve a single quiver of arrows, and your 10-round combat will need more than a single quiver of arrows (20), you are also talking about getting an Efficient Quiver (1800gp).
Also, if you want someone to enchant your arrows in some fashion (align weapon or greater magic weapon), you'd rather have more than 20 done at a time.
Plus the 600gp for the arrows.
We are talking about 15k gp for this setup. Plus 70 lbs of weight from the bags of holding alone.
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Now, this is comparing to an abundant ammunition quiver: Spell Level 1 x Caster Level 1 x 2000gp continuous item x minute duration (2), 4000gp.
I mean, even if you spent the cash just on an Efficient Quiver and a Handy Haversack (to carry a modest number of arrows per run), you are looking at 3800gp to hold about 30 quivers at a time (assuming the efficient quiver is full).
Now the big savings: consider that you can place a small set of unique ammunition (cold iron, silver, adamantine, etc) up to the number of shots you'll be shooting a round in there and get them repeatedly, over and over, the cost savings on an abundant ammo quiver becomes amazing.
Whats the price difference between 10 adamantine arrows and this quiver vs 12 thousand?
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I would compare The abundant quiver/bolt case/repeating crossbow clip to a rope of climbing which is essentially a permanent animate rope. 1500gp to make, 3000gp to purchase. Each uses a first level spell, however animate rope is rounds/level. Still worth it, epecially if you use alchemical arrows or special materials.
Abundant ammunition it's amazing for the specialty non magical arrows especially bleeding, smoke, and even prepoisoned arrows get made clones, with their poison still on.
There are a number of incorrect assumptions here. My quick'n'dirty math gives me more around 12k arrows, considering you won't be able to afford the magic items needed here until you've spent a few levels. So I'll even be working will less than your number there.So let's see what it takes to carry 12 thousand arrows on you easily...
First, we need these arrows in quivers, otherwise they will pierce the extra-dimensional bag. So at 20 arrows per quiver, that's 600 quivers of arrows.
At 3 lbs per quiver, that's 1800 lbs of weight. That's higher than the largest (Type IV bag is 1500 lbs limit).
So we are looking at two Type III bags (14,800gp), to handle these arrows.Now, since it will take at least a move action to retrieve a single quiver of arrows, and your 10-round combat will need more than a single quiver of arrows (20), you are also talking about getting an Efficient Quiver (1800gp).
Also, if you want someone to enchant your arrows in some fashion (align weapon or greater magic weapon),...
1gp=20 normal arrows= 5 cp/arrow.... Adamantine is +60 gp per ammunition piece. 60x10= 600 gp.... 600gp+5sp...+either 4k gp for an abundant ammunition quiver, or 8k gp for an efficient quiver with abbundant ammunition.
..... 12,000 arrows/20= 600 quivers... Each quiver of arrows is 1gp..thus it's 600 gp.
Total= 4,600gp 5 sp - 8,600 gp 5sp. VS. 600 gp for 12k arrows.
Where do the two break even price wise, only for arrows?
4601gp ( abundant ammunition) X 20 arrows= 92,020 arrows
For storage of said arrows, each bag of holding, largest size can handle 500 quivers.
At 92,020 arrows/ 20 per quiver=4601 quivers....4601 quivers/500 per bag=9.2 largest size bag of holding.
Now, the largest bag of holding weighs 60lbs, and is 10k each.. So 9.2 bags X 10kgp each= 92kgp for bags.
92kgp + 4601gp for the 92,020 arrows ( non masterwork)= 96,621 gp just for that many arrows and to carry them... At 540lbs bare minimum for just 9 bags.
All this versus the 4,601 gp abundant ammunition quiver which to fire and create up to 92k arrows. At 6 arrows per turn, that's 15,333.33... Rounds. Even at 5 rounds of combat, with 3 combat encounters a day, so 15 rounds a day= 1,202 days of combat with 3 battles each day at 5 rounds each, always full attacking.
With all that fighting, to just have the arrows, in all those bags and whatnot, vs. just the one quiver for the abundant ammunition, hands down abundant ammunition is better.
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Was the Never ending quiver an item that was lost in the transition and if so is there anything similar named different or will I just have to custom make it? Our Druid gets frustrated when the DM says did you subtract your arrows and from my memory a never ending quiver isn't that expensive. I just took craft wonderous and figure I can make her one for a thousand gold or so.
Also there was a 4th ed. item called pouch of platinum. It converted coins and gems into the equal value in platinum. Is there anything like it or similar in Pathfinder? While coin weight is ignored in our campaign it would be nice to just be able to convert it with a simple magic item. Maybe make it like a handy haversack coin pouch where you think I need 7 silver to pay for my room and meal and pull it out without having to pull out 1 platinum and have every broke starving villager stare at you. I haven't looked into making one, but most of the things I have read said there really isn't a spell to convert coins... so any suggestions?
Quiver of Plenty
Aura faint conjuration; CL 1st (mundane), 5th (+1), 8th (+2), 12th (+3), 16th (+4), 20th (+5)
Slot none; Price 4,000 gp (mundane), 35,000 gp (+1 bonus), 53,000 gp (+2 bonus), 77,000 gp (+3 bonus), 101,000 gp (+4 bonus), 125,000 (+5 bonus), adamantine +6,000 gp, alchemical silver +200 gp, cold iron +1,200 gp; Weight 1 lb.
DESCRIPTION
These magical quivers seem well made and decorated with elvish runes. Each quiver is created with a full set of arrows, and when an arrow is removed, the arrow is replenished in the quiver. Arrows removed from the quiver vanish after being used. Some quivers can be created to create adamantine, cold iron, and/or alchemical silver arrows. Finally, certain quivers of plenty are endowed with exceptional enchantments that bestow an enhancement bonus on all arrows drawn from the quiver. These arrows can bypass magic damage reduction but not other types of special damage reductions as normal magic weapons can.
CONSTRUCTION
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, abundant ammunition, greater magic weapon (if created with enhancement bonuses); Cost 2,000 gp (mundane), 17,500 gp (+1 bonus), 26,500 gp (+2 bonus), 38,500 gp (+3 bonus), 50,500 gp (+4 bonus), 62,500 gp (+5 bonus), +3,000 gp (adamantine), +100 gp (alchemical silver), +600 gp (cold iron).
I'll think about the coin conversion thing as well.