wow... An Aasimar (and Tiefling) are Outsiders too.
by this logic they would also be immune to sleep?
"Native outsiders eat, breathe and sleep."
Last time I checked, Aasimar and Tieflings (as well as Fetchlings and the elemental-touched races) were Native Outsiders.
|
Awesome all! Did anyone use the minis? And if you did, did you take pictures? E-mail if so, as we'd love to see - and potentially blog about them!
I ran this module at the Sentry Box in Calgary, I used minis (preprinted for the villains and hand-painted Reapers for the Iconics). I didnt take pictures day-of, but would be happy to send along some re-enactments...
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
I didn't take pictrues. Funny thing about the minis mapsheets.
[spoiler]I bought the flip map and had some tiles for the rooms. The party I ran for made the knowlege checks and bypassed the ambush. So much for the flip mat.
When I played in the afternoon I said "I've got the flip mat, so we're fine." The party made the knowlege checks and bypassed the ambush...[spoiler]
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
So hands up all those who think having the NPCs cast dominate makes things fun for the players?
There was non-stop laughter around the table when the succubus and the paladin "engaged" in a couple rounds of "unspeakable activity".
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
So hands up all those who think having the NPCs cast dominate makes things fun for the players?There was non-stop laughter around the table when the succubus and the paladin "engaged" in a couple rounds of "unspeakable activity".
I think you meant "the succubus and the lunchbox". :]
|
|
VC of St. Louis, Brett Sweeney, killed 2 people last Tuesday, Dwarf Barb and a Half Orc Rogue.
GM's don't kill people; monsters kill PC's.
If Brett is killing people, I need to get the money he owes me quickly then.The module is designed for a table of 6 (I believe it mentions this in the scenario introduction, but I have been known to be wrong.)
Also, the pregens are woefully adequate if played by individuals familiar with the game and stat blocks. I had the luxury of sitting next to a player who wasn't and realized that if I wasn't there providing some useful "attack with both weapons" advice, the game may have went differently.
I felt Chris didn't pull any punches, good game Mr. Mortika.
|
|
So hands up all those who think having the NPCs cast dominate makes things fun for the players?
Me, if it isn't carried too far.
I had players yesterday wiping their sweaty foreheads when the Fighter, again, made the Will save.
And, of course, I was playing when one of the players showed that there are way too many reasons you don't want the 8th level Fighter to haqve Wisdom as a full dump stat. +1 Will save is not a good thing at 8th level.
And, of course, having the players of spellcasters not know their own spells well enough to know how to handle someone who was Dominated, even though they had the spells to do so avaialble, is irritating to the player of the Dominated PC.
I had to cut it short, but I don't think they would have won.
On top of that, the Alchemist complained WAY too much about the Death attack against the cleric, and everyone meta-gamed the crap out of it.
|
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
SPOILERS.
Was 2/4 dead, should've been 3/4.
Valeros AKA Liability
Ezren AKA Lucky
Seelah AKA Equipped
Earl AKA The Real Adventurer (Sarenrae Cleric)
Avalexi breaks out of disguise with her assassination attempt. Misses horribly. Teleports the hell out of there as the party buffs themselves up and backs up to avoid any weird sneak attacks.
Meanwhile Avalexi conjures a ravenous Babau with no problems, and conjures herself a hot flame blade.
The party hears her in the catacombs and comes after her. Seelah uses her last smite on the Babau. The Babau breaks through the Cleric's circle of protection from evil and then dispels it, cackling away. Seelah is chopping him up and Valeros is effectively useless. Ezren is getting lucky on his magic missiles against Avalexi.
Avalexi isn't doing much at this point as she hasn't got her bow and every time she pulls out a flame blade Earl or Ezren dispel it. She gives up on that and dominates Valeros who, according to JJ "enjoys soft company at night" Rrrowl.
Valeros (non existent will save) turns around 180 degrees and stabs Ezren in the guts. Ezren goes white.
The party charms Valeros to stop him disembowelling the elderly mage. Valeros is confused! He hurt his choices in his confusion!
As Seelah's mighty smite polishes off the Babau, she has to focus on healing herself up. Ezren and Earl charm Valeros, which ends his murderous intent. He's keen to be a nuisance now, attempting to disarm everyone around.
Seelah, dripping in the blood of a freshly slain babau, moves in to contend with Avalexi. With no smites, she's out of puff and can't hit the dextrous demoness. Valeros decides to rugby tackle Ezren, who is blasting Avalexi with magic missiles.
Ezren shrieks as Valeros pins him in a bear hug. Seelah swears under her breath as she can't break through the armour or the temporary hit points of Avalexi, who is loving the use of vampiric touch and flame blade.
Avalexi gets bored with Seelah and descends on the pinned, wounded, wheezing old wizard. Within two flicks of the flame blade, Ezren has been killed outright. Avalexi pulls off his head and drop-kicks it down the corridor towards the Paladin, cackling away. Valeros is charmed and dominated and lying in the mud, covered in the gore of the old man that he loved like a father.
Seelah would rage if she could, but she's not able to wound Avalexi. Avalexi is (literally) cutting Seelah with the flame blade as if it was a hot knife through butter. Earl has been buffed through the wazoo but between Valeros disarming him and seeing the ineffectiveness of Seelah, he's seeing how the cards are falling.
The card (being Seelah) falls on negative HP, and Avalexi smiles at Earl. He gulps audibly and pulls off an obscuring mist, hoping to make his escape. He's scrambling, panting, running up the stairs to daylight and safety. He breaks out the trap door!
Avalexi has teleported to the opening of the trap door, and she's readied an flame blade attack on the running cleric.
It's a critical.
Damage dice show a 1 and a 2. Earl is all right. He sprints past the succubus and into the arms of the perturbed town guard.
Avalexi is never seen again.
Some time later, a weeping and PTSD riddled Valeros emerges from the catacombs, with Ezren's blood on his hands (and shirt!) weeping softly. He'll never be the same again.
BIG SUCCESS.
WOULD FREE RPG AGAIN.
|
|
I'm a necromancer raising this thread from the ground, but it's worth it... I ran this last night for a group of mostly experienced players, all level 5:
Ranger/Rogue - Elf, Archery Build
Barbarian - Half-Elf, Large Bastard Sword Beefcake
Alchemist - Dwarven Professor turned "Hairy Thing" (Internal Alchemist)
Alchemist - Half-Elf Miss Bombs-a-Lot
Oracle - Aasimar, Sarenrae's Favorite Life Oracle
Rogue - Vicious Tiefling, Well Prepared with... Claw Attacks!
They hear about the murders and immediately spring into ambush mode with only the information the guards gave them. On the surprise round, Zadendi throws the silent stone then promptly rolls a 1 for initiative. All the PCs dash into the middle of the street to defend the Oracle, who was murderer bait. This would scare off Zadendi, so she withdraws and is never seen, but the Scarlet Son is glimpsed flying over the rooftops. They identify it as a gargoyle, but not quite high enough to see it as a half-fiend.
The second ambush is successful, despite me giving them a -40% chance for Zadendi being suspicious. They tear through both of them like rabid wolverines due to some good tactics and magic weapons.
Heading straight to the shrine with key in hand, they find the wights who only manage to energy drain the rogue on a surprise round nat 20 (non-confirmed). After hitting the glyph, they stop to heal and prepare for what's in the room ahead, giving Avalexi time to prepare as well.
They fall for her ruse hook line and sinker; she is able to paralyze the poor Oracle. Avalexi teleports into a cell to get her "bow" (I gave her a non-magic short bow... then never actually used it). The barbarian and the rogue rush in to trap her in there; the trap is sprung! Avelexi provokes from both of them as she closes the door, locking them in, then teleports to the hallway.
The rogue is going to take 7 rounds (2d4) to pick the lock while she successfully summons the babau. They had barricaded the door with one of the pews, so the babau had to break through. The Oracle uses her Daylight SLA for protection against darkness, as she can do little else while paralyzed. Once the babau broke in, he dispels her daylight and casts darkness the next round.
The rest of the fight was a matter of crowd control for Avalexi. She crit with her first use of vampiric touch, giving her 46 temp hp, and that knocked the Oracle down to negative hp. The ranger/rogue had closed the other cell door to prevent getting locked in, but Avalexi suggested he go in there and hide... so he spends 5 rounds unlocking that door so he can hide. Now feeling cocky, she suggests that the half-elf alchemist make out with her... hurray for energy drain! While they're all running around in a panic, she dominates the now-stable Oracle with the command to heal her and take prisoners. Everyone is relieved when the Oracle is finally conscious... until she starts to heal up Avalexi! Eventually everyone runs, leaving the enlarged hairy dwarf on a strength mutagen to distract Avalexi. She decides to pull him in for a kiss, which promptly kills him. She pouts, then teleports away to cause havoc in another part of Golarion. The dwarf had used his Breath Mastery ability to fake his own death and trick Avalexi.
Total count: 1 PC dominated, 2 more charmed (but convinced to get the guards to stop all the fighting), and a seemingly dead dwarf. I thought about having Avalexi chase them, but we were looking at 7 hours of playing... it was time to call it.
It was an amazingly fun fight, and I can't wait to run another succubus... maybe a magus next time... >:-)
|
|
Played and ran this last weekend.
Player:
Gunslinger doing great damage until Barb dominated and chops him up.
Me and another melee guy can't hit her major AC.
Even with Bestow Curse, Barb hacking away quite successfully.
Healer stretched thin keeping us up until he's chopped up.
Other melee guy magically forced to leave (which he deeply appreciated), and me, alone vs. Barb & unhittable her carrying out one of the dead with my Monk ki speed boost.
Two paid their way back.
One death permanent, but since he was the low-Will Barb that killed the others, had mixed feelings.
GM: Running with three from a team that hit every room in Bonekeep with no deaths, and a veteran player with Snake Style.
Unseen yet, Summon got off, and then Dominate. This kept them occupied while she played around in catacombs and studied for Death Attack from corridor.
Lots of attempts to free Dominated PC (who had a decent Will, +7?), maybe 5 or 6 rolls with Pro. Evil, Prescience, etc, but nothing worked. Save is way too high for level.
Death Attack missed (I know, unlikely, but vs. Snake Style PC)
Finally seen after Death Attack, good Kn. (planes) roll reveals she's practically unstoppable with main melee turned against party.
Last command was "Kill Priest" before Pro. Evil cut her off, so Cleric runs out after Forbid stalls bad PC. Badly hurt, the others follow, blocking path of bad PC, and taking swings from her.
Three or four rounds later, they make it to the surface and split.
Plan exposed, BBEG TPs back and gathers objects.
Should have been a TPK, what with two or three of them within one hit of death, and another dominated, but half of my attacks were three or under or countered by Snake Style, and two crits didn't confirm.
I'm glad they made it. This module is too screwy for a death to be heroic here.
|
Let's see how we went thru this.
We had:
-Dwarf Fighter/Cleric of Cayden
-Human Shield Specialist (Mine)
-Half-elf Bard (Archeologist)
-Half-elf Bard
-Human rogue
-Iconic Cleric
The hunt for the murderer went well. Her friend flew in to rescue her when she got dropped by a sound hit from me and the dwarf, only to run into a tanglefoot bag (dropping it to the ground for a round) got hit by the fighter and dwarf, broke free and took to the air. Then got 'bagged again and the dwarf (now flying) came up to finish it off.
Then it was on to the shrine. The two clerics all but ate the undead. Moot fight.
Then it was on to Avalexi. My fighter comes in with Enlarge and sheild of faith going, ditto for Dwarven Fighter/Cleric. She lays the wammy on my fighter (I missed my first save by 2) and tells me to 'Take care of the others' as she closes with the Cleric. So my fighter turns to Bard #1 and cleaves his MW Lute. Then Dirty Tricks him (twice) and then moves on the other bard. Who manages to get a suggestion off (missed save by 1 point) and says 'You look thirsty, why don't you drink this?'. Then with the potion of protection from Evil makes her save.
Meanwhile the cleric and fighter/cleric were fighting the BBEG and her summoned friend. My fighter steps up with her sword and between her and the fighter/cleric beat her silly in four rapid fire hits.
There was one of the two nastiest fights my fighter ever had and as a result I go looking for ways to undo charms/compulsions and other will releated evil. So in additon to a Clear Spindle, she carries a scroll of two castings of Suppress Charms and Compulsions to give to a friendly caster in the group and a potion (or two) of Prot from Evil.
|
|
I have no sympathy for anyone failing multiple consecutive Will saves, especially with the +4 bonus that was probably involved.
DC 24 Will at 5th level, and you have no sympathy?
Jiggy, I'm a bit disappointed in you.Do the math. An average (non-Paladin, 12 Wis) martial will almost always fail, even with multiple tries. The +4 gives hope, but no surety.
As it stands, I ran dulac50's table.
The victim was a martial with a +7 Will save. Raging I believe got him to +9.
And the dice rolled average, which sadly was not enough. His good rolls came before the +4 kicked in for "Kill the Priest".
He never did kill the priest, so didn't get new saves that way.
(dulac50, he has no Paladin levels, though that was an initial plan)
Millefune, I was the Monk-ish guy.
You couldn't have stopped me. :P
I was uninjured (able to take several hits) and had ki to burn to get the hell out of there. Nobody swung at the guy who kept missing. :)
For the record, I only ran after the Nagaji was ordered to leave and I was the only other PC standing (other than the Barb turned enemy).
You ran it fine and with flavor, though to be honest, I'm not sure why she chose to target the Barbarian who hadn't entered the room, when I was Enlarged and right there with a cold iron battleaxe (looking just like a Barb myself). Targeting me would have made all the difference.
Frankly, it's just too tough for anything less than 6 5th levels.
Her Vamp Touch has to be overwhelmed really, really fast.
|
|
Didn't realize it was DC 24. I retract my previous statement.
Yeah, this plus any of the encounters involving the Spider are nasty of low to mid tier marginals who aren't paladins. There is a reason my tower shield specialist has a sword named 'Bardbeater'.
When to save you need to roll a 17+ and the bad guys tactics are to EXPLICITLY whammy the person in heavy armor FIRST that is hurtful.
And most of the martial types I know, with a few exceptions, like to stock up on potions of prot from evil clear spindles AND cloaks of resistJUST for that reason.
|
As I read this module, I am unsure how Avalexi does not kill every party, every time, and not even break a sweat.
There was talk about how a party was able to whittle away her hitpoints without batting an eye, or to kill her, or that not a single person died.
my thought is the GM did not play her correctly or remember all of her abilities - let alone use them.
I know she is supposed to fight to the death, but that doesn't mean she isn't intelligent or blatantly lets herself get killed.
There are also listed tactics, but that doesn't mean she still doesn't have feats that are available to her.
4 very important abilities that would prevent a party from killing her:
1. She can teleport at will - every round! If for some reason the party is able to get through 122+temp hps with 10DR, then she should be able to teleport away and rain down arrows from afar
2. She has the ability to use a 6d6 vampiric touch at will. Any time her temp hit points get low, she should be doing it again - every round!
3. She can turn ethereal at will. She goes ethereal, studies the party for 3 rounds, then comes in and death attacks them - every 3 rounds!
or study the party and perform a death attack with her bow within 30'
4. She can charm person at will with a DC 23 save. That will effect 95% of every average 5th lvl fighter, 85% of the remaining average 5th lvl melee types - every round!
---
just to throw some Combat options out there -
1. use vital strike and vampiric touch and death attack together
2. use ethereal jaunt and detect thoughts together to learn what the party is going to do next or what they are capable of, then ambush them with that knowledge?
3. party casted spells on themselves to buff themselves? have her teleport away and wait for the spells duration to expire.
4. the party is in a sealed catacomb. have her teleport to the door and lock it/bar it/blockade it.
with the Gargoyle -
1. did the GM have the gargoyle grapple a pc, fly up into the air, and drop a party member?
2. did it cast darkness on a pebble, drop it into the party, and then single out a party member to attack?
the way this module is written, there should be a TPK every time.
|
|
Since we just had free RPG day (and played this as our second slot) I can respond to quite a bit of this.
Yes, she is lethal. However it's not generally a TPK as some of the characters will start fleeing. Those groups that handle her easily either get lucky or use advanced tactics. A poor save from her vs. a Stunning Fist or a glitterdust can put her out of the fight. Tactics include a monk who's willing to eat a negative level or two to grapple her (followed by an all-out blitzkrieg by the rest of the party) or a rogue who gets a flank on her in a narrow corridor and just readies actions to attack if she casts a spell.
Bear in mind that all the spell-like abilities you mentioned require concentration checks if casting defensively. She's got a really high concentration check (+21) but that still leaves her a 35% chance to fail on ethereal jaunt or greater teleport. Plus an additional check if she takes any damage.
Those parties that win but don't handle her easily generally just wear her down gradually. A hasted, smiting paladin will generally keep up with her vampiric touch and the damage other players do keeps dropping her HP.
---
As for your Combat Options - first, remember that the object isn't to "beat" the players. The tactics (and even moreso the morale) sections of modules are often written to give players a tough but winnable fight. The enemy may be capable of more - as a creature - than it actually does. Sure Avalexi can make death attacks to kill, but that's not her objective and not how her tactics are written.
1) Death Attack requires three rounds of studying and has to be a sneak attack. After the initial attack - where she deliberately paralyzes, rather than kills - she is unlikely to get another sneak attack off. And three rounds of not doing anything is probably bad for her. You can't Vital Strike with a vampiric touch. Vital Strike is a special use of the attack action. (And even if you could, it does twice weapon damage.)
2) She could, but again... it's not part of her tactics.
3) See 2.
4) See 2.
the way this module is written, there should be a TPK every time.
The way this module is written, it should be an extreme challenge for most groups with a potential for a TPK looming over the final fight. If you want to change her tactics and objectives in order to kill players more effectively then yes, you could probably have a TPK every time.
|
I ran this just the other night and had a TPK (my first in PFS, actually), but the party came *really* close to winning.
The tactics that worked best on her were Protection from Evil / Communal to prevent her charms, and the Ninja with vanishing trick was able to get lots of sneak attack in on her because unlike her "friend", she can't see invisibility. My group was a TPK because the Paladin went 1-vs-1 with her and while the Ninja kept trying to go for her, after getting hit twice, she ordered the Babau to get between her and the ninja, who was no match toe-to-toe. The pregen ranger and gunslinger were hampered by the tight quarters to be too effective (although Harsk had the idea to run back into the sanctuary and smash/destroy the four hearts they had collected. That, plus telling the city guards to follow them into the Shrine the next day = Avalexi deciding to pack up and move instead of fighting off the whole city. However, the player who got a raise dead got her "un" boon :P
|
|
When I played this I had a table of optimized people. We busted in, handled everything before the succubus like a hot knife through butter. Our two -handed fighter got dominated attacked my non-lethal damage monk. A ki point later he was asleep. A player used a silver crusade boon to smite evil so he guns put a hurt on her.
She got away, but we took her allies alive.
|
|
Tactics say she uses the Paralyze from death attack, it doesn't say she only uses this once. while paralyze is not lethal in of itself, what happens when all party members are paralyzed?
her tactics say she will only keep alive any religious party members. if there are none to be found, she is killing the rest.
also, the tactics do not state how she will attack every round. just that when she is below 40hps, she uses vampiric touch.
when that condition happens, she can use vampiric touch every round until the end of the fight. its not like she will only use an at will ability once, then give up.
to the point above, you absolutely can vital strike and vampiric touch.
Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack ith a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren’t considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. (If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack.) If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.
she casts vampiric touch, then next round makes a claw attack with vital strike. the damage is 2d4+2+6d6
she could even combine multiple abilities together, such as:
uses ethereal jaunt, casts vampiric touch, studies an opponent for three rounds, then dispels the EJ in a spot she can hide, then moves in with a sneak attack
dmg would be 2d4+2+6d6+1d6
as I said earlier, tactics doesn't do a round by round. but, to provide a counter argument against the statement that says her tactics do not say she will use ethereal jaunt or detect thoughts, the opposite is also true, the tactics doesn't say she Can't or won't use ethereal jaunt or detect thoughts.
She is very intelligent, after the first round of getting owned from being grappled, she should really decide to teleport out of the grapple.
as teleporting away is part of her tactics in both combat tactics and defensive tactics when she is low on hitpoints, she can use this anytime she wishes (see 3 and 4 above). and her DC check for concentration of d20+21 vs 16+CMD shouldn't be that problematic.
For the ninja with vanish or her being attacked while grappled. please keep in mind she has uncanny dodge. so vanish will not work on her by itself as she will retain her dex, and she doesn't lose her dex while being grappled - only if she is pinned(held).
For the monks that want to grapple her, keep in mind that while grappled, she can make 2 (two) attacks at a -2 penalty. not because she has two natural attacks, but because her BAB is high enough to allow this. which means she is draining 2 levels per round from the monk, and if that same monk took a level drain from the wight, that means he has less than 2 rounds till he is dead.
Energy Drain (Su) An unwilling victim must be grappled before the succubus can use this ability.
A grappled creature takes a –2 penalty on all attack rolls and combat maneuver checks, except those made to grapple or escape a grapple.
also, keep in mind that each energy drain from her has an accompanying suggestion DC 24 (write up is incorrect as its 10+1/2HD +Chr modifier), and if needed can tell the monk to let her go or carry her away from danger.
I don't understand the comment, the objective isn't to beat the party.
that's absolutely what her objective is! she wants to kill the party, but keep any religious PCs alive to kill later in a ritual.
with that said, it's the GM's objective to ensure the party has fun. So while the opponent is absolutely intent on killing the party, the GM should provide the party plenty of opportunity to roleplay or research about the BBEG. provide the party opportunities to supply themselves with the right tools for the job. so they can make the fight a challenge but not die.
but of course, as mentioned above, that is not in the tactics of this module, so there really isn't much chance of success within the combats.
|
|
Wrong stuff
The energy drain is it's own attack. Not fromt he claws. SO if a DM gave her two level drains from her claws they are cheating.
Now a DM argueing that the PLayer makign the grapple can be targeted with this special attack is a fair arguement. But it is only once per round, with a save to force the next round.
|
|
Wrong stuffThe energy drain is it's own attack. Not fromt he claws. SO if a DM gave her two level drains from her claws they are cheating.
Now a DM argueing that the PLayer makign the grapple can be targeted with this special attack is a fair arguement. But it is only once per round, with a save to force the next round.
Her specific energy drain only says that the opponent must be grappled.
Her energy drain specifically comes from her kiss, and if she has a high enough BAB, she can perform that many kisses in any round that another Creature has her grappled.
The kiss is a special attack, much like a vampire's bite, that is typically performed in a grapple.
also, as an additional measure, she could perform both attacks on the monk, and then suggest that on his turn, he kisses her - where again, he would be level drained from the kiss. to which she gets another free suggestion for him to kiss her again, and if he has high enough BAB, he would kiss her a second time in that same round for an additional drain along with another free suggestion to just keep the cycle going until he is dead.
|
|
I don't understand the comment, the objective isn't to beat the party.
Actually the comment was 'the object isn't to "beat" the party.'
Your post was quite full of ideas that would kill players more effectively. You are correct, having the gargoyle grapple a PC, fly up 200', and drop it IS going to kill any 5th level that can't cast feather fall. Avalexi COULD try to make death attacks on all the arcane casters (after barring the doors). But she doesn't. She wants to use her flame blade.
All your suggestions were more suited to a "vs." environment. I'm sure you'd make a wonderful Evil Overlord playing Descent: Journeys in the Dark but that degree of "me against the players" doesn't lead to a fun table in most PFS situations.
edit: By the way, I killed 2 of 5 PCs at my table last week using a flame blade, vampiric touch, and dominate. (The others fled.). I'm not suggesting that you should softball so no one is in danger. I'm saying that you shouldn't make it harder.
|
|
Wrong stuffThe energy drain is it's own attack. Not fromt he claws. SO if a DM gave her two level drains from her claws they are cheating.
Now a DM argueing that the PLayer makign the grapple can be targeted with this special attack is a fair arguement. But it is only once per round, with a save to force the next round.
Her specific energy drain only says that the opponent must be grappled.
Her energy drain specifically comes from her kiss, and if she has a high enough BAB, she can perform that many kisses in any round that another Creature has her grappled.
The kiss is a special attack, much like a vampire's bite, that is typically performed in a grapple.
also, as an additional measure, she could perform both attacks on the monk, and then suggest that on his turn, he kisses her - where again, he would be level drained from the kiss. to which she gets another free suggestion for him to kiss her again, and if he has high enough BAB, he would kiss her a second time in that same round for an additional drain along with another free suggestion to just keep the cycle going until he is dead.
This tpye of dming would prompt me to walk away from the table and never play with that DM again.
|
|
with any adventure, the BBEG is meant to defeat the PCs, while it is the job of the GM to make it enjoyable for the table. I cant stress this point enough. this is what separates the diet coke of pathfinder PFS tables with normal risk vs reward gaming.
However, this adventure is written to defeat a party, plain and simple.
When the second sentence of Concluding the Adventure discusses what happens when the party fails and what the GM should do, should be testament enough of this perspective.
To go back to my initial posting message:
I would not recommend this module for any PFS table. as there won't be fun or enjoyment if the GM plays the end boss as written and intended.
this is not a PFS friendly module.
the idea that the succubus has all her base feats over written to allow for the heavy hitting feats such as vital strike and deadly aim; that should be enough to underline the case and point that modifications were done to the BBEG to kill a party, not to challenge them.
with the comments of 'ill never play with that DM again' or 'DM vs. party', it points to the fact that there is a complete misinterpret of my entire post - that this module as written is not social table friendly.
and as a PFS GM, I wouldn't run this at a PFS event.
With all that said, this Module is written to challenge a regular gaming table. A table that allows roleplaying and information gathering and prepping - something that PFS Roll-playing is typically on the lighter side (prepping, roleplaying, and discussing tactics)
I would easily run this with at a home game that allows all the flexibility for the party to prepare itself and gather all the necessary tools for the job.
|
|
with any adventure, the BBEG is meant to defeat the PCs, while it is the job of the GM to make it enjoyable for the table. I cant stress this point enough. this is what separates the diet coke of pathfinder PFS tables with normal risk vs reward gaming.
However, this adventure is written to defeat a party, plain and simple.
When the second sentence of Concluding the Adventure discusses what happens when the party fails and what the GM should do, should be testament enough of this perspective.To go back to my initial posting message:
I would not recommend this module for any PFS table. as there won't be fun or enjoyment if the GM plays the end boss as written and intended.
this is not a PFS friendly module.the idea that the succubus has all her base feats over written to allow for the heavy hitting feats such as vital strike and deadly aim; that should be enough to underline the case and point that modifications were done to the BBEG to kill a party, not to challenge them.
with the comments of 'ill never play with that DM again' or 'DM vs. party', it points to the fact that there is a complete misinterpret of my entire post - that this module as written is not social table friendly.
and as a PFS GM, I wouldn't run this at a PFS event.
There is a huge difference between reading somethign grey and adding things into the reading.
If you want to say the bab gives extra attacks why not just say both of the claws get extra attacks that all and energy drain with vampiric ttouch and sneak attack. Then each touch attack gives a suggestion as well? The rules are clear. One kiss one enegry drain. Then this kiss gives a very speicific suggestion. Not one the Dm can change without cheating.
GMs that cheat wreck the game worse than PCs that do. Life is too short to deal with the frustration of someone that cheats.
This scenario can easily be run without cheating. It is challenging enough.
|
|
My stuff, that can be read aboveThere is a huge difference between reading somethign grey and adding things into the reading.
If you want to say the bab gives extra attacks why not just say both of the claws get extra attacks that all and energy drain with vampiric ttouch and sneak attack. Then each touch attack gives a suggestion as well? The rules are clear. One kiss one enegry drain. Then this kiss gives a very speicific suggestion. Not one the Dm can change without cheating.
GMs that cheat wreck the game worse than PCs that do. Life is too short to deal with the frustration of someone that cheats.
This scenario can easily be run without cheating. It is challenging enough.
Not even sure where you went there.
Vampiric touch is spell that requires a touch attack. as per rules with touch attacks, it can be held till discharged.
also with touch spells, they can be delivered with an attack.
sneak attack damage can be applied for every attack that meets the requirements for this ability. if an opponent is flanked or flat-footed when a spell's touch attack is delivered, then yes, sneak attack damage can be applied as well as the spell's stated damage.
BAB, kind of self explanatory. every 6 bab, a creature receives an iterative attack although -5 adjustment.
energy drain specifically states how this is delivered in the creatures write up, either a slam attack (I.E. the Wight in this adventure), a bite (vampire), a kiss (succubus), or with each attack (some other type of creature I don't care to look up)
the succubus's entry also provides additional conditions around the energy drain:
Energy Drain (Su) A succubus drains energy from a mortal she lures into an act of passion, such as a kiss. An unwilling victim must be grappled before the succubus can use this ability. The succubus’s kiss bestows one negative level.
The kiss also has the effect of a suggestion spell, asking the victim to accept another act of passion from the succubus.
The victim must succeed on a DC 22 Will save to negate the suggestion. The DC is 22 for the Fortitude save to remove a negative level. These save DCs are Charisma-based.
as you will note, in the monster's entry, it provides that exact example of the succubus using her free suggestion that the effected victim kisses her again.
I think you should reevaluate your perspective before you start calling people cheaters. that brings communication to a halt, and nothing conductive gets accomplished then.
|
|
my stuff.There is a huge difference between reading somethign grey and adding things into the reading.
If you want to say the bab gives extra attacks why not just say both of the claws get extra attacks that all and energy drain with vampiric ttouch and sneak attack. Then each touch attack gives a suggestion as well? The rules are clear. One kiss one enegry drain. Then this kiss gives a very speicific suggestion. Not one the Dm can change without cheating.
GMs that cheat wreck the game worse than PCs that do. Life is too short to deal with the frustration of someone that cheats.
This scenario can easily be run without cheating. It is challenging enough.
With the above rant, how would you handle a Wight's attack of opportunity?
scenario:
round 1
Wight: attacks a PC and drains a level
PC: tries to run away, provoking an Attack of Opportunity.
Same Round, Same Wight: takes the attack of opportunity and drains another level.
2 levels in 1 round, are you suggesting that would be "cheating" too?
|
For the monks that want to grapple her, keep in mind that while grappled, she can make 2 (two) attacks at a -2 penalty. not because she has two natural attacks, but because her BAB is high enough to allow this. which means she is draining 2 levels per round from the monk, and if that same monk took a level drain from the wight, that means he has less than 2 rounds till he is dead.
Energy Drain (Su) An unwilling victim must be grappled before the succubus can use this ability.
A grappled creature takes a –2 penalty on all attack rolls and combat maneuver checks, except those made to grapple or escape a grapple.Her energy drain specifically comes from her kiss, and if she has a high enough BAB, she can perform that many kisses in any round that another Creature has her grappled.
I do not believe this quite works out as you describe. To begin with, you skipped the entire first sentence of a succubus's energy drain attack, as well as key pieces of information there in.
Energy Drain (Su) A succubus drains energy from a mortal she lures into an act of passion, such as a kiss. An unwilling victim must be grappled before the succubus can use this ability. The succubus's kiss bestows one negative level. The kiss also has the effect of a suggestion spell, asking the victim to accept another act of passion from the succubus. The victim must succeed on a DC 22 Will save to negate the suggestion. The DC is 22 for the Fortitude save to remove a negative level. These save DCs are Charisma-based.
As I read this, a succubus using energy drain with claw attacks under any circumstances seems incorrect.
I also believe that the logic of higher BAB = multiple kisses is quite a stretch. An act of passion usually takes a few moments if you are doing it right. ;) I would personally call a passionate kiss a standard action.
She does not need these stretches to prove a challenge anyhow, as this thread well indicates.
|
|
my stuff about a PC grappling a succubus and her draining himI do not believe this quite works out as you describe. To begin with, you skipped the entire first sentence of a succubus's energy drain attack, as well as key pieces of information there in.
Energy Drain (Su) A succubus drains energy from a mortal she lures into an act of passion, such as a kiss. An unwilling victim must be grappled before the succubus can use this ability. The succubus's kiss bestows one negative level. The kiss also has the effect of a suggestion spell, asking the victim to accept another act of passion from the succubus. The victim must succeed on a DC 22 Will save to negate the suggestion. The DC is 22 for the Fortitude save to remove a negative level. These save DCs are Charisma-based.As I read this, a succubus using energy drain with claw attacks under any circumstances seems incorrect.
I also believe that the logic of higher BAB = multiple kisses is quite a stretch. An act of passion usually takes a few moments if you are doing it right. ;) I would personally call a passionate kiss a standard action.
She does not need these stretches to prove a challenge anyhow, as this thread well indicates.
Again, I never said she drains levels with her claw attacks. I said her 9 BAB gives her two attacks while being grappled.
if she is grappled, she has the option to attack her grappler for as many attacks as her BAB will allow, with a -2 to each attack.this is fact. not a grey area.
also, in your above quote, please take note of the second line of her Energy Drain attack. An unwilling victim must be grappled.
if the opponent is already grappling her, that gives her free reign to use her kiss attack to bestow 1 negative level.
so, to do the math:
each kiss bestows only 1 negative level.
if she kisses twice, she will bestow 2 negative levels.
if she kisses three times, she will bestow 3 negative levels.
just to clarify, are you stating that if an opponent grapples her, she is completely unable to use her energy drain attack?
from a game mechanics perspective, if she is grappled, how would she be able to use her energy drain ability?