Dysfunction's page

I just noticed the word doc has been updated, its now 136 pages!!

I guess my question is regarding if enhancement bonuses or temporary increases from spells would be limited by the Archetype.

in other words, is this limitation written to cap the Int increase that familiar's gain for being bonded or is this cap intended as a global cap for everything

The Mauler Familiar limits the familiar's Int as per below:

Increased Strength (Ex): At 3rd level and every 2 levels thereafter, a mauler’s Strength score increases by 1. As a result

of this ability, the familiar’s Intelligence score remains 6; a
mauler can never have an Intelligence score higher than 6.

what happens if it uses a headband of intellect - would it have a 6+2=8 or would it be 6+2=6?

also, is the familiar considered an animal or is it a construct?

Resurrecting this thread.
With Occult Adventures out now, would that affect/change any of your choices for this class?

Sounds like I will need a different direction if I'm trying to recreate an Attack on Titan - Recon Corps/Scout Legion character build.

As the blast only has a range of 30', does that mean that you are essentially looking at 4pts of burn just for 30' of movement?

I know Extended Range and Extreme Range can increase that 30' limitation, but as these are form infusions, you wouldn't be able to apply them if you are already applying Force Hook.

Dysfunction wrote:

I know homebrew rules are always available. but, what about adding options within the document for applying these rules to advanced core classes?

a promethean alchemist - instead of a homunculus, it's a bonded mech.
an aegis - instead of an astral suit, they get a bonded mech

Additionaly, to expand on the feats/modifications, what about any class that has inherent options like discoveries, talents, or revelations - could instead take modifications or a select available mech feats (cybernetic integration)

I dont think aegis gets bounded mech as main feature with out blending in to class smoothly in my idea aegis gets something like

astral frame When formed into astral frame, an astral suit resembles mech chassis of aegises choosing and is treated as such for all mechanical purposes. Should the aegis be wearing armor when forming his astral suit in this fashion, the astral suit encloses the armor and the aegis gains the benefits of only his astral suit and not that from his armor, even if his armor would confer better benefits. Forming an astral suit into this form takes a move action. The aegis gains the following free customizations: mech augmentation

my question was more in line of if there was (un)official rules on swapping out the class features where instead of a eidolon/companion/familiar/pet that would be gained they would gain a bonded mech.

in my above example for the aegis, instead of a companion that would be swapped it would be the class's ability to gain an astral suit. the class would get the bonded mech feature instead of the suit.

this was just similar thinking to the other archetype updates that the word document has in it.

I know homebrew rules are always available. but, what about adding options within the document for applying these rules to advanced core classes?

a promethean alchemist - instead of a homunculus, it's a bonded mech.
an aegis - instead of an astral suit, they get a bonded mech

Additionaly, to expand on the feats/modifications, what about any class that has inherent options like discoveries, talents, or revelations - could instead take modifications or a select available mech feats (cybernetic integration)

for those that still play with this, shouldn't the below:

Superior Arcforged Armor- The mech increases its Hardness by 5. This stacks with the increase granted by the Advanced Armor Plating enhancement. The mech must have the Advanced Armor Plating enhancement and must be at least 13th level to take this enhancement.

actually read:

Superior Arcforged Armor- The mech increases its Hardness by 5. This stacks with the increase granted by the Arcforged Armor enhancement. The mech must have the Arcforged Armor enhancement and must be at least 13th level to take this enhancement.

I know there have been several conversations about this topic, and everyone seems to have their own opinions.

Can someone provide the source of where it says that if a Hybrid class meets all the requirements, it can/can't take an archetype of the parent class?

1) The sword sticks around. You started play with it, and so it is in play. The cost benefit for getting it for free do not outweigh the cost of retraining.

2) You can still modify/enhance it as if it were a masterwork sword (because it is one), but you do not gain the ability to act as if you had Craft Magic Arms and Armor for free, as those only apply to Arcane Bonded items, which it is not.

3) See 1/2. For note, nothing says the wizard crafted the sword to begin with; he very easily could have bought it, received it as a family heirloom, stole it, etc.

so, how is that sword any different than starting play with a homunculus from an archetype, then retraining to a different archetype?

the homunculus is still there, the bond as the master is still there.
it's still a construct that can be improved both as standard construct and as the specific rules to enhance a homunculus.

the only thing that changes is the archetype's level advancement/progression of the homunculus.

Lets take a different approach.

If I were to take a level of wizard, and bond with a sword.
Under the class description, I begin play with a masterwork sword:

Wizards who select a bonded object begin play with one at no cost. Objects that are the subject of an arcane bond must fall into one of the following categories: amulet, ring, staff, wand, or weapon. These objects are always masterwork quality.

No where in this description talks about the crafting of said masterwork item or the specifics on how to improve it.

Now, lets say I retrain the whole level of wizard to fighter.
1. Does the sword just disappear?
2. Would I lose the capabilities of modifying/ enhancing that sword?

Or to link back to an earlier point, lets keep the wizard level.
3. Because there's no crafting rules on how the masterwork bonded item is formed, does that mean the wizard wouldn't be able to modify/enhance the sword either?

loyal...how would you describe a master/slave relationship?

as the homunculus description states: "The person whose blood is used to form a homunculus's body becomes its master"

Dysfunction wrote:

I said stuff

Yep. But you have to choose a normal homunculus, not a homunculus companion.

Can you quote the source that states the homunculus companion is not considered a homunculus? or that the homunculus companion doesn't qualify as a homunculus?

I would suggest making your own thread on that question rather than necro year old threads for the purpose.

I'm sure you obviously missed that this thread was last responded to in 2016...

it doesn't mean that the homunculus disappears. it still exists. and is still tied to you the same way that any other homunculus would be tied to you.
or the same way that if someone else created a homunculus but used your blood in its creation.

"The person whose blood is used to form a homunculus's body becomes its master; it is possible for one person to give blood for the creation, another to sculpt the base material, and another to magically animate it as a minion for the one who provided the blood"

when you retrain, you loose the ability for the homunculus to advance in level.

with all the ways to qualify for familiars, I'm not going to debate how one could qualify for improved familiar.
A different example would be for the character to take Eldritch Heritage, take the Arcane bloodline and gain the ability to qualify for familiars.

either way, at 7th level equivalent, the PC then takes improved familiar and gains access to the ability to choose a Homunculus.

Dysfunction wrote:

take the archetype, make the companion, then retrain the archetype to what ever you choose.

I'm very sure you don't get to cheat the system by giving up an archetype and yet keeping permanent benefits from it.

While the rules are generally vague on what actually happens to retained-away familiars / animal companions / eidolons/ etc., the GM does get a say in the matter.

(And it's my understanding that in PFS, they just vanish into not existing anymore.)

does that mean, that if I take a crafting feat, make a magic item, then retrain the feat into some other feat - I lose the magic item I just created?

Also, under the Promethean description, it states that it's just a specialized homunculus.

Where is everyone getting or assuming, that its not a homunculus or that it's rules apply differently and doesn't apply any sources homunculus additional rules/modifications?

Alchemist extracts only. The investigator extracts are not your alchemist extracts. The homonculus knows what you know, but it doesn't have the ability to create investigator extracts that your class levels in investigator grant you.

Infusion discovery from Investigator levels works, but the homonculus is still considered a construct for those extracts, so no Enlarge Person, etc.

Except under Investigator, it states that the extracts are like the Alchemist's. and uses the same rules for governing them.

most people will say that your animal companion can not be your familiar.
luckily for you, the homunculus companion is not an animal companion.
as the class description states, its a specialized version of homunculus.
which means that if your alchemist took the tumor discovery to gain a familiar, then took improved familiar at 7th level, dismissed the tumor, he could select the homunculus companion to be the familiar.

the downside to that would be, your companion/familiar would be gimped on HP, since a familiar only gets half the master's HP.
where the companion gains d10 HD, bonus HP for size, and you can increase it's HD for only 2k gold/ HD.

take the archetype, make the companion, then retrain the archetype to what ever you choose.

Except the target is the rope... does the rope make the save?

There's no obvious sign how this is supposed to work. My best guess is, as Diego says, that the rope tries to trip automatically for anybody who moves into or through its guarded area.

oh, good call!

did you notice this spell offers a save?

does that mean that the opponent gets a reflex save first, and then if they fail it, there's a trip check?

So, basically the verdict is that the best one could do, would be to have one PC carry the other.

Even though one of the PCs would be a skin-sack.

Maybe ride checks if a battle started.
Maybe encumbrance would apply.

But, no wearing the skinsend as a skin suit.

1) You cannot wear another creature. Another creature cannot occupy you space (except for mounts, and the rules for riding anything other than a mount are non-existant) If it was a small skin, or the skin creature had undersized mount feat, and your GM allowed you to ride another PC, it would be just like any other mount.

2) You might not be recognizable as yourself, it is difficult to imagine though when looking like an animated skin would be better than looking like yourself.

3) The PC that was attacked would take the damage. The skin is not armor of anykind.

4) Normal encumbrance rules would apply. A GM might give a circumstance bonuses for concealing things with slight of hand, although when such a thing would ever apply is hard to imagine.

5) The spell ends, and the skinsender dies. The other PC would be left with a human skin, which does nothing as far as game mechanics are concerned. It certainly isn't leather armor, even a cow skin isn't leather armor. Leather armor is treated and crafted to become a) leather and b) armor.

6) Theoretically if someone had craft construct, then new abilities could be added at the rate of 1 day/1000 gp of cost. Since skinsend last 1 hour/level this is unlikely to be useful. If the spell ends then any progress would be lost and if a construct modification was completed it would be gone, as the skin is no longer a construct.

1. you absolutely can wear another creature.

All of that is not even dipping into the fact that intelligent items are considered constructs - which are creatures.
so, any set of intelligent armor you put on, you are wearing a creature.

5. the spell already states that if it ends, the caster's consciousness automatically goes back to the body. so, your explanation is flawed from the description of the spell.
Typically, if a construct is dispelled or enters an anti-magic area, there's a whole slew of variables that come into effect.
I was asking how one would label the skin construct and what rules should apply for this type of construct.

6. It wouldn't take much to keep casting the spell. At 5th level, it would last 5 hours, get an extend rod and it now lasts 10 hours. Cast the spell again before duration expires and get another 10 hours.
a third time and it lasts all day.
As you are now considered a construct, its not like you would need to sleep.

Dysfunction wrote:

I said stuff

1. That would be leather armor. Leather is the Politically correct term for skin when used in manufacturing. I'd add a penalty if the leather/skin isn't made into armor, but is instead the PC slipping into the skin of another creature, I'd use the rules for Leather armor, but applye broken property to represent that it isn't really designed to be armor. Craft armor would be required to make this "suit."

2. The skin wouldn't really qualify as a disguise on it's own, unless you intended to disguise as a zombie version of the original creature. I'd add circumstance bonuses if you disguised as the original and were using other props, like the normal weapons and clothing that the character would wear. Bonus would be along the lines of the result of your craft armor check to make the skin suit, divided by 5. So I'd give a +4 circumstance bonus to the disguise check if you made a DC 20 craft check when making the suit. I'd be applying simliar penalties to any social rolls, as that is a gross idea.

3. Your not wearing the other PC. That one is dead, you are just wearing *creepy* leather armor. Damage dealt to the armor would be as normal per sunder. This is not construct armor,...

You wouldn't be wearing a dead PC. Skinsend allows you to animate your skin and travel as normal, the caster PC is very much alive.

In case you haven't run across it yet, you might enjoy the Seamless Skin magic item from Inner Sea Intrigue.

that's cool! makes me feel like I'm not the only morbid player here.

As morbid as this sounds, I'm thinking of Silence of the Lambs or Men in Black, when the skin was worn like a body suit.

with that in mind, here are some initial questions:

1. What are the rules if one PC wanted to wear the skin of the other?

2. Would this be a disguise?

3. If the PC was attacked while wearing the other PC, who would take the damage?
Would this be considered to fall under the rules of the 'construct armor' from ultimate magic?

4. Could the PC that has this spell casted on them, put things inside their skin and carry it around like they were one big bag?

5. What happens if the PC's skin goes into an anti-magic area or gets dispel magic casted on them?

6. As your skin is now a construct, can you improve your construct skin following the standard modify construct rules?

<bump>

also, can I request versioning on the doc, so we know when new content is added?

thank you!

Scenario: I have an animal companion where I have gained 4th level in the class that gave me the companion. the companion is now increased in size, plus I have trained it feats, tricks, and skills.

in regards to the below situations, my question is what happens to the animal's size increase when:

1. I retrain from animal bond to something else

2. I gain a negative level, and am no longer 4th level

3. Dismiss the animal, letting it free

4. Cast awaken on the animal and it's no longer viable to be an animal companion

thanks!

Dysfunction wrote:

I am very passionate about this subject/line of progression, and I would love to see this project completed!

I have been looking for ways to get a progressive rule set in place for a mech style suit/power armor that wasn't just an animated item in place for some time.

Sure, everyone can house rule something, but it's always looked at as breaking/twisting the rules. It would be nice to have something published that can be referenced that is Pathfinder compatible.

Please keep up the good work!!!

To be fair, just because it is published doesn't make it any less 'house ruled', even PFRPG is essentially house rules for 3.5 in the end. It isn't any less (or more) broken or twisted because it is published.

The biggest difference is our DM generally allows published work and very rarely allows house rules.

I am very passionate about this subject/line of progression, and I would love to see this project completed!

I have been looking for ways to get a progressive rule set in place for a mech style suit/power armor that wasn't just an animated item in place for some time.

Sure, everyone can house rule something, but it's always looked at as breaking/twisting the rules. It would be nice to have something published that can be referenced that is Pathfinder compatible.

Please keep up the good work!!!

Lots of things that I love here and the ideas are amazing!

However, I wanted to start with some of the concerns:
1. Psi-tech is already in the Pathfinder world with their latest release of Occult Realms. There's a whole chapter based on the idea using that naming convention.
2. The cores are used in the NeoExodus core rule structure and Iron Kingdoms - Full Metal Fantasy.
3. Mechs are also already written up in both D20 Mecha and Iron Kingdoms - Full Metal Fantasy.

With that said here is my input on options/ideas for continuing to move this forward:

For leveling purposes of the Mech - which many people have asked about or voiced concern on how it would level, take a look at a lot of the content that has already been published within the Pathfinder Realm:

Synthesist Archetype for Summoner in Ultimate Magic
Construct Rider Archetype for Alchemist in Cohorts and Companions
Promthean Archetype of Alchemist in Occult Adventurers

For Mech modifications, you could take a look at the evolutions that Eidolons choose from, or additions that your Astral Constructs get to choose when they are created.
Another source could be the additions one could add by spending construction points to their animated object first listed in Ultimate Magic.

Also, Sean Reynolds wrote something up for a robot variant of Summoner in his Robomancer guide.

In the technology guide, there are several spells (destroy robot, antitech field, ect) that list they can affect both androids and cyborgs.

where are cyborgs listed, and are they a race or a template?

thanks!

I just GM'd this over the weekend, it didn't really end the way I thought it would go.

in the 10min that the party had, they had already defeated tig0 with the help of the Azer, they removed the drives and were just trying to figure out what to do with the portals.

during the first round of the fight with Jethzerai, one party member flew up, and used the combat maneuver - steal to take the remote.
Using UMD with technologist feat, they shut the portals back off and then they all left.

without really knowing what the control device was, I didn't really see any reason the party couldn't do this.

"As he lands, he uses a remote control to activate the portals..."

"Combat Gear: ..., portal control device, ..."

anyone have any ideas on what this remote portal control device is?

"As he lands, he uses a remote control to activate the portals..."

"Combat Gear: ..., portal control device, ..."

anyone have any ideas on what this remote portal control device is?

to repair one item as though you had cast make whole (CL 10th)

So, he's able to perform a spell-like effect...and that's supposed to fix the misforging...got it.

Master Smith’s Service: <...> You can cross this boon off your Chronicle sheet at the end of an adventure to repair one item as though you had cast make whole (CL 10th). Alternatively, if you also own the sword Gamin the Misforged, you may cross this boon off your Chronicle sheet and spend 5 Prestige Points to permanently remove the broken condition from that weapon.

How is this any different than paying 60g to have the Make Whole spell casted on the sword for the same affect?

TABLE 5–2: SAMPLE SPELLCASTING COSTS FOR COMMON SPELLS

Make whole 60 gp

Make whole can fix destroyed magic items (at 0 hit points or less), and restores the magic properties of the item if your caster level is at least twice that of the item. Items with charges (such as wands) and single-use items (such as potions and scrolls) cannot be repaired in this way. When make whole is used on a construct creature, the spell bypasses any immunity to magic as if the spell did not allow spell resistance.

Mending: This spell repairs damaged objects, restoring 1d4 hit points to the object. If the object has the broken condition, this condition is removed if the object is restored to at least half its original hit points.

It's not destroyed, so you don't need the twice the caster level of the sword to remove the broken condition.

Damaged Objects: A damaged object remains functional with the broken condition until the item’s hit points are reduced to 0, at which point it is destroyed.

Damaged (but not destroyed) objects can be repaired with the Craft skill and a number of spells.

Broken: Items that have taken damage in excess of half their total hit points gain the broken condition, meaning they are less effective at their designated task. The broken condition has the following effects, depending upon the item.

Intelligent items are no different than normal magic items. Which means a Make Whole, or Mend should work no problem.

Magic items sometimes have intelligence of their own.

So, why does this need to be a PP sink/waste of a boon to fix Gamin?

Again, as a player race, as a monster to fight, what? If it's just a monster you can just make one up using the rules I previously posted.

Helmed Horror tells me nothing.
Phantom Armor is already pathfinder and a @#$%ing undead.

Do you want a construct with an Int score? Here's one. There's a few more (Soulbound dolls, any construct with the "brain modification", lots of choices). I already posted the construct player race.

An animated suit of armor? Use Animate Objects. Might even be one of the examples.

Seriously, describe what you actually want, then maybe someone can help you.

Deep breath.

Keep calm, and chive on.

Again. I'm not trying to convert.
I am asking if anyone knows of an equivalent race to the Nimblewright.

this should be regardless of race, creed, or class.
I also do not need the rules for converting.

I am asking if Paizo already has in existence a creature that is similar to the Nimblewright.

Example would be:

3.5 had Helmed Horrors

Pathfinder has Phantom Armor

----

they are not the exact same, but, close enough.

I know there have been many attempts to convert this Construct race over to Pathfinder in the past, but, my question is if there is an equivalent race already in Pathfinder existence that could closely be used as a stand in

You didn't say the rider would get a standard attack? Hmmmmm

Dysfunction's first post wrote:

The way I read this, is that the player uses the full-round action to charge up to an opponent, make a standard attack while the mount gets to perform a full attack, then the player can move again.

(Bold/size is mine)

allow me to correct the context of the sentence:

as per charge rules:

Attacking on a Charge

After moving, you may make a single melee attack. You get a +2 bonus on the attack roll and take a –2 penalty to your AC until the start of your next turn.

Never said the rider would get a standard attack.

I said the rider/mount charges up, the mount pounces, the rider attacks, then the rider continues moving - with a ride check to dismount as a free action - since he has RBA.

By your explanation, the mount wouldn't get to move anymore, and the rider would have to dismount to continue his action?

regardless, I found a thread that answers it in detail: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p6qc?Rideby-attack-and-pounce#1

I just noticed that Overrun, per RAW, doesn't work with a Charge, since it takes a Standard Action to perform an Overrun, which cannot be done with a Full-Round Action like Charge in the same turn.

Except, the first line of Overrun talks about how you use it in a charge...

Overrun
As a standard action, taken during your move or as part of
a charge, you can attempt to overrun your target, moving
through its square

Mounted player has the Improved Overrun feat:

Benefit: As a standard action, taken during your move or as part of a charge, you can attempt to overrun your target, moving through its square

and the player's mount has pounce:

When a creature with this special attack makes a charge, it can make a full attack (including rake attacks if the creature also has the rake ability)

The way I read this, is that the player uses the full-round action to charge through an opponent's square, while the mount pounces the opponent after they are prone.