I've had enormous fun with Great Cleave, Finishing Cleave, and Lunge. Though many sources say following the Cleave tree isn't optimal.
In my case it helped that the GM's adventures included a large number of mooks.
Nicos, you are correct. Cleave cannot be retrained to Extra Rage. Fighter retraining rules are retraining the Fighter's bonus feats only. Bonus feats can only be applied to Combat feats which Extra Rage is not.
Otherwise, it looks like a decent build. I like Lunge also.
Vital Strike is a feat that is mainly useful when you are unable to execute a full attack action. It makes a standard attack more palatable and is not a replacement for a full attack action. However, there are some Vital Strike builds that can be worthwhile but I don't think you are set up for any of them.
- Gauss
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i second cleave tree, but i would use a reach weapon not a great sword.
furious finish is a pretty badass way to take your character. you take vital strike tree, with power attack, furious finish, and boots of haste or striding and springing, great sword, potion of enlarge person and all the once per rage abilities you can stack on your barbarian.
i like barbarian 7/fighter5 get weapon training armor training mithril full plate and a bunch of barbarian powers that are used once per rage.
deuxhero, retraining normal feats is not possible by RAW. Only fighter feats may be retrained.
However, there are 3.5 rules on feat retraining if the GM allows them.
- Gauss
30ft is usually enough mobile for most melee: I'd go for mithril fullplate.
A second level of barbarian will give you rage powers (and access to the extra rage power feat) and DR1/- if you go for invulnerable rager.
Other than that I don't know how you may get the mobility you wish for unless you for barbarian10 (pounce with beast totem) or the mobile fighter archetype. Cleave may be your best bet.
One Vital Strike build that does this is the Titan Mauler archetype. Basically, get a rediculously large weapon and stack it with enlarge person, lead blade (requires UMD and a wand of Lead blade) and hit 12d6 damage per attack. With Vital Strike, Imp. VS, Gr. VS you eventually hit 48d6.
Great Sword = 2d6, Large GS = 3d6 (-2attack), Huge GS = 4d6(-4attack), Gargantuan GS = 6d6 (-6attack), Colossal GS = 8d6 (-6attack+enlarge), Colossal GS+Lead Blade = 12d6 (-6attack+enlarge+Lead Blade). That is at level 9 barbarian. Every 3 levels thereafter reduce the penalty by -1.
Note: this is if using the Massive Weapons ability the way it is supposed to run. It does not currently work that way due to an error in the RAW writing. The author of the archetype explained how it is supposed to run.
Another build is a Wild Shaped Druid who wild shaped into any number of creatures (usually dinosaurs) with a single big attack.
- Gauss
Marios, nope not game breaking. First, Gr. Vital Strike isnt until level 16. Second, Full-attack sequences (with haste) can accomplish very similar if not better damage. I have a 2-handed Fighter archetype build which at level 20 has a DPR of 348.25 damage with haste (241.38 at level 16). That is with 'expected' stats and equipment (ie: nothing special). Note: that is DPR which is based on attack percentages etc. The DPR of the Furious Finish build you are talking about will not be any better once you factor in attack percentages. All it does is to let you have your move action which frankly, a barbarian with Pounce would have anyhow.
- Gauss
Improved Sunder as an option would suit you well and its hard to fight when your weapon is lying on the ground broken in half.
If the opponent sticks around after that fine, cut-em up, if not move to the next target, repeat.
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I wonder how do you reach those numbers! I must admit that even though I've played D&D for almost 20 years now, I'm relatively new to Pathfinder and it would seem that characters are quite more powerful than 3.5!
lol no way in hell..
anyway furious finish is something you would want to invest in if mobility is your focus. ask your gm if you can use the 3.5 version of spring attack so you can spring and vital strike.
Str28 (18str to start, +4from level, +6from belt): +9attack, +13damage (first attack), +18damage (all others)
+5 Greatsword with Speed: +5attack/damage
Weapon Training: +6attack/damage (with Gloves of Dueling)
Gr. Weapon Focus: +2attack
Gr. Weapon Specialization: +4damage
Greater Power Attack with Furious Focus: -6attack (+0first attack), +24damage
Improved Critical: Threat range 17-20
Average enemy AC at level 20 is 36 (Bestiary table 1-1)
First Attack: +42attack, 2d6+52damage
Second Attack: +36attack, 2d6+57damage
Third Attack: +31attack, 2d6+57damage
Fourth Attack: +26attack, 2d6+57damage
Fifth Attack: +21attack, 2d6+57damage
The DPR formula (without precision damage) is: (chance to hit*average damage)+(chance to confirm*average damage*threat range*(multiplier-1))
(Note: the threat range cannot be greater than the chance to hit.)
Chance to hit/average damage:
First: 95%/59damage
Second: 95%/64damage
Third: 80%/64damage
Fourth: 55%/64damage
Fifth: 30%/64damage
Chance to confirm: 100% (Weapon Mastery)
Threat Range: 20%
Multiplier: x3-1 = 2 (Weapon Mastery)
Thus: we run the numbers and we get DPA of:
First: (0.95*59)+(1*59*0.2*2) = (56.05)+(23.6) = 79.65
Second: (0.95*64)+(1*64*0.2*2) = 60.8+25.6 = 86.4
Third: (0.80*64)+(1*64*0.2*2) = 51.2+25.6 = 76.8
Fourth: (0.55*64)+(1*64*0.2*2) = 35.2+25.6 = 60.8
Fifth: (0.30*64)+(1*64*0.2*2) = 19.2+25.6 = 44.8
Summing this up we get: 348.45DPR (I mistyped earlier when I wrote 348.25, my excel file also says 348.45.)
Haste (instead of Speed) would increase the DPR slightly (+1attack bonus). Any other bonuses to attack would increase it. Every +1 attack bonus will result in a 9.6increase in damage. After +3attack it drops off to 6.4 per attack bonus.
- Gauss
Edit: Oh, this is without including Enlarge Person which would add 3.5average for the sword and extra damage for the strength bonus (per attack).
Rage is a definite plus for the barbarian. However, your current character taken to level 20 would not auto-confirm any criticals and that would take your DPR down quite a bit.
In any case it is mostly irrelevant. Most characters are retired long before level 20. The damage of the mid levels is what really matters and that is far less dramatic.
- Gauss
You cannot use a claw attack while that hand is wielding a weapon. - Gauss
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One Vital Strike build that does this is the Titan Mauler archetype. Basically, get a rediculously large weapon and stack it with enlarge person, lead blade (requires UMD and a wand of Lead blade) and hit 12d6 damage per attack. With Vital Strike, Imp. VS, Gr. VS you eventually hit 48d6.
Great Sword = 2d6, Large GS = 3d6 (-2attack), Huge GS = 4d6(-4attack), Gargantuan GS = 6d6 (-6attack), Colossal GS = 8d6 (-6attack+enlarge), Colossal GS+Lead Blade = 12d6 (-6attack+enlarge+Lead Blade). That is at level 9 barbarian. Every 3 levels thereafter reduce the penalty by -1.Note: this is if using the Massive Weapons ability the way it is supposed to run. It does not currently work that way due to an error in the RAW writing. The author of the archetype explained how it is supposed to run.
Another build is a Wild Shaped Druid who wild shaped into any number of creatures (usually dinosaurs) with a single big attack.
- Gauss
How is the Massive Weapon Ability supposed to work?
It would be great if you could dig up the link to the Author's comments.
I thought it was pretty "meh" when you start to look at how you wield over-sized weapons.
Power Attack does not multiply with Vital Strikes.
Only the base damage of the weapon multiplies. So, you probably aren't going to be hitting 200 base damage with one vital strike. And the cost is three feats! You're probably better off looking at crit effects instead.
You want huge damage, you grab a naginata and the 2h Archetypes near-capstone where you can declare a crit strike as a standard action. At that level, x4 dmg is a guaranteed 200+ dmg with one swing.
==Aelryinth
So, how they are supposed to work is that you wield a weapon that is too large for you to normally wield. Every 3 levels you can either increase the maximum size of the weapon by 1 category (for an increased penalty of -2to attack) or you can decrease the size penalty to attack.
Thus:
level 3 you select Large size for a -2attack.
Level 6 you may reduce the attack penalty by 1 or select Huge for another -2attack (-4total now)
Level 9 you may reduce the attack penalty by 1 or select the next size up.
etc...
Thus, by level 18 you can have your greatsword go from Medium 2d6 -> Large 3d6 -> Huge 4d6 -> Gargantuan 6d6 -> Colossal 8d6 weapon with a -6penalty to attack.
However, since there is nothing beyond Colossal anymore I would suggest going to Gargantuan and then using Enlarge Person to get your Colossal weapon. Lead Blades (not a size effect) will increase it by 1 more damage category up to 12d6. Doing it that route will result in a -5attack penalty (instead of the -6) by level 18.
- Gauss
Edit: Note, that is using the author's first suggested fix. The second suggested fix can place a colossal weapon in the hands of a level 3 character for a -7attack penalty. I like this one less (for obvious reasons I hope).
48d6 is about 168 dmg. With Power attack and a lot of strength, you might tap 200 regularly. Of course, you're toting around a 20 foot sword that probably weighs half a ton, and having to justify it in a dungeon.
:) Lead Blades + a Heavy weapon + Enlarge will get you 3 size increases with only one size upgrade and one EWP. If you can wield oversized weapon, that'll be 4 size increases, but you're again tossing around an eighteen foot greatsword.
==Aelryinth
Aelrynith, Heavy weapon?
- Gauss
Would using the half giant race from psionics unleashed help this massive weapon wielding barbarian?
Improved Sunder as an option would suit you well and its hard to fight when your weapon is lying on the ground broken in half.
If the opponent sticks around after that fine, cut-em up, if not move to the next target, repeat.Hmmmm...very interesting indeed!
Have I seen a rule somewhere that in order to sunder a magical weapon you need a weapon of at least similar enchantment?
I may be incorrect but sundering a magical item is pretty basic with the difference being its number of hit points and hardness increased because its magical.
Smashing an Object
Smashing a weapon or shield with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon is accomplished with the sunder combat maneuver. Smashing an object is like sundering a weapon or shield, except that your combat maneuver check is opposed by the object's AC. Generally, you can smash an object only with a bludgeoning or slashing weapon.
Magic item sundering
Magic items take damage as nonmagical items of the same sort. A damaged magic item continues to function, but if it is destroyed, all its magical power is lost. Magic items that take damage in excess of half their total hit points, but not more than their total hit points, gain the Broken condition, and might not function properly.
Long sword normal = 10hardness/ 5hp
Your weapon = +1 Great sword = 12 hardness/ 20 hp
So a opponents +2 long sword =14hardness/25hp
Sunder is CMB attack so look at your Barbarian stat block.
Probably a +12 CMB = +5(BAB) +6(STR) -2(Power Attack) +2(Improved Sunder) +1(Weapon Focus)
Add this to your die roll vs opponents CMD probably around a 22. Decent odds to hit. Roll 11 or have someone aid you and roll a 9.
Once you do hit damage is good 2d6(great sword) +12(STR doubled for two hands and Raging) +1(magic) +2(Improved Sunder) +4(Power Attack) average damage 26.
Normal weapon = 0 hp left Broken/Destroyed
+1 weapon = 6 hp left Broken
+2 weapon = 13 hp left (1 hp away from broken)
I think I have the details correct but I am sure someone will chime in if not.
Here is a thought for you though. If the sword looks too tough, sunder the armor so others can help, its easier to sunder soft materials like leather straps or wood (staves). Sunder a saddle of a mounted foe (That might be questionable but if allowed its REALLY effective).
Incapacitation is an extremely effective way to win a battle with a little party teamwork and you have the gift to make the armored tanks open targets to the rest of your team.
Punchinpaper:
Neither wielding a weapon two-handed nor raging causes strength damage to double. Two-handed increases the strength damage bonus from 1x to 1.5x rounded down. There ARE abilities that increase the strength bonus from 1.5x to 2x but those two are not amongst them.
Also, you are forgetting to add the magic enhancement bonus to the CMB sunder attempt.
Finally, your power attack damage is incorrect. For power attack with a two-handed weapon the increase is +3damage for every -1attack.
- Gauss
Punchinpaper:
- Gauss
Thanks for the review Gauss. I will edit the post here shortly.
A Heavy Weapon is a weapon made from something other then steel, typically alchemically treated gold or platinum, but I suppose you could throw uranium and iridium into the mix ;). It deals damage as if it were one size larger.
From magic of Faerun. You need an EWP (Heavy Longsword) to wield a heavy longsword.
Really, probably the fairest use of an EWP I've seen.
And yes, it would be a huge hit with Furious Finish. 48d6 maxed is 294 all by it's lonesome. Add in Power Attack, a good strength and damage bonus, I can see you doing almost 350 a swing...a once/fight hit, with a twenty foot long sword, that should hopefully end the fight. Heh.
==Aelryinth
Aelryinth, ahhhh a 3.0 import. That is why I wasn't thinking about it. Now that you mention it I seem to remember that feat *checks his 3.0 books* yup, page179. Yeah, I don't allow 3.0 stuff in my PF game. (I MIGHT allow 3.5 stuff in my PF games.)
- Gauss
Thought MoF was 3.5? Meh. :)
==Aelryinth
Alas no, my copy of MoF has a copyright date of 2001 with no print date that I can find.
In comparison my copy of Players Guide to Faerun has a print date of March 2004 and a copyright date of 2004.
The cutoff date for 3.0 vs 3.5 is approximately July 2003. (IIRC there are a couple cases of books published around that cutoff that could be 3.0 or 3.5 even though they are on the wrong side of the cutoff date.)
- Gauss
Talk to your DM about how often you might be able to use feats such as cleave. I've seen it be a good option and other times a useless feat.
Yeah, MoF is 3.0.
We may find something similar in the new equipment manual though.