Had a discussing with my gaming crew about Two Weapon Fighting vs Two Handed Weapons and the rest of my crew was favouring the later. Something about bigger hits and more damage coming from the two handed weapon.
When I steered the conversation to combinations of two weapon fighting styles most agreed the usage of Sawtooth Sabres, and it is understandable why the Red Mantis use these.
My favourite however took the table by surprise: Great Sword and Armour Spikes. IMO it combines the glories of a two handed weapon with a touch of flavour: Fighter rushes in swinging a beastly two handed weapon and then shoulder slams them.
Always been fond of dual axes for some reason. Battle- or Waraxe in main hand, handaxe in off (or just straight up dual of whatever's in your main if you don't mind the extra penalty). I'd like to see it combined with Axe Knuckles though, I think that'd be amusing - axe slash, axe punch!
*blink* you can actually do that?
I know for my ranger, I use a Bastard Sword and Flaming Kukri.
Then cast Lead Blades (Or Enlarge Person... Or both)
1d10 --> 2d8 --> 3d8 (19-20/2x) - Average 6 --> 10 --> 15
1d4+1d6 --> 1d6+1d6 --> 1d8+1d6 (18-20/2x) average 6 --> 8 --> 9
Vs just a great sword
2d6 --> 3d6 --> 4d6 (19-20/2x) - Average 8 --> 12 --> 16
Note: I may have screwed up on scaling somewhere.
From the PRD
Armor Spikes: You can have spikes added to your armor, which allow you to deal extra piercing damage (see “spiked armor” on Table: Weapons) on a successful grapple attack. The spikes count as a martial weapon. If you are not proficient with them, you take a –4 penalty on grapple checks when you try to use them. You can also make a regular melee attack (or off-hand attack) with the spikes, and they count as a light weapon in this case. (You can't also make an attack with armor spikes if you have already made an attack with another off-hand weapon, and vice versa.) An enhancement bonus to a suit of armor does not improve the spikes' effectiveness, but the spikes can be made into magic weapons in their own right.
Armour spikes are a light martial weapon.
Edited:
I love it because if you can't make your full attacks, you are still able to deal impressive single attack damage.
Toothy half-orc with an orc double axe.
I've always liked the idea of rapier and dagger. It's more for style than anything else.
wow that is simply amazing
I will not attempt to prove this mathematically, but I think that sneak attack is the only way to make TWF viable (unless you're sword and board, but that's another conversation). The improved % chance to hit and increased damage done on every hit makes a two handed weapon superior.
As far as combinations, the double Wakizashi's are unrivaled!!!
I've played a number of 2wpn fighters, but I'd have to say my favorite was Eduardo the Lion Tamer who wielded a whip in one hand and a chair in the other.
I'm also kinda fond of my current character, a wizard who dual wields war fans.
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Even though the current system does not really do them justice and seeing as how I own a few myself... I'm always fond of the image of paired kukri.
My second favorite combo would be Hand-axe (tomahawk)/dagger
Rapier and dagger, a pair of daggers, or weapon/gauntlet or weapon/unarmed strike. My last rogue fought with a dagger and his fist, and I tell ya it was awesome. I love the idea of a slug to the jaw or a cheap kick to gain the upper hand, especially for those "dirty fighter" types.
With Dwarves I'm quite partial to dual warhammers/dwarven waraxes. Not the most effective, but it... feels right.
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From the PRD
Armor Spikes: You can have spikes added to your armor, which allow you to deal extra piercing damage (see “spiked armor” on Table: Weapons) on a successful grapple attack. The spikes count as a martial weapon. If you are not proficient with them, you take a –4 penalty on grapple checks when you try to use them. You can also make a regular melee attack (or off-hand attack) with the spikes, and they count as a light weapon in this case. (You can't also make an attack with armor spikes if you have already made an attack with another off-hand weapon, and vice versa.) An enhancement bonus to a suit of armor does not improve the spikes' effectiveness, but the spikes can be made into magic weapons in their own right.Armour spikes are a light martial weapon.
Edited:
I love it because if you can't make your full attacks, you are still able to deal impressive single attack damage.
But when you're using a great sword, you can't make an off-hand attack as it's a two-handed weapon. But hey, if your GM lets you get away with it...
I've played a number of 2wpn fighters, but I'd have to say my favorite was Eduardo the Lion Tamer who wielded a whip in one hand and a chair in the other.
Ha that's awesome. Did your GM let you use the chair as a shield at all, or was it just wielded as a standard improvised weapon?
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Double Sword. 1D8/1D8!
Ranger2 get two weapon fighting without need the dexterity requirement. 18 Starting strength at level two you can do pretty decent damage. Stack it with favored enemy, masterwork weapon and BAB you are going to be sexxxy.
I don't understand why I never see people using the double sword? It is treated as a one-handed and a light weapon. This stuff is candy.
Fighter with Heavy Pick, Armor Spikes and Tower Shield. Who says you must sacrifice AC for TWF. Plus, sometimes that Heavy Pick pushes out huge damage.
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Double Sword. 1D8/1D8!
Ranger2 get two weapon fighting without need the dexterity requirement. 18 Starting strength at level two you can do pretty decent damage. Stack it with favored enemy, masterwork weapon and BAB you are going to be sexxxy.
I don't understand why I never see people using the double sword? It is treated as a one-handed and a light weapon. This stuff is candy.
One of my players went all of the way through a PF version of RotRL as a Weapon Master fighter with a double-bladed sword. The guy was a machine and rolled through encounters. He did give up bravery, though, which was pretty funny at times, because while normally I wouldn't put much stock in the ability he missed every single fear effect save thorughout the entire campaign by exactly the bonus bravery would've given him had he had it.
Ha that's awesome. Did your GM let you use the chair as a shield at all, or was it just wielded as a standard improvised weapon?
It was in improvised weapon, but over time I mitigated all my penalties. I never actually got to tame a lion, but I did tame a few other animals, including a dire rhino which became my mount.
My fav was a dwarf in Legacy of Fire who used Med Shield & Kukri. (The shield being the primary weapon)
I will not attempt to prove this mathematically, but I think that sneak attack is the only way to make TWF viable (unless you're sword and board, but that's another conversation). The improved % chance to hit and increased damage done on every hit makes a two handed weapon superior.
As far as combinations, the double Wakizashi's are unrivaled!!!
Fighter out DPR rogues, and Falcata's with a cestus or kukri are potent combination also. I think the beat the Wakizashi.
Even though the current system does not really do them justice and seeing as how I own a few myself... I'm always fond of the image of paired kukri.
My second favorite combo would be Hand-axe (tomahawk)/dagger
That is the best combo IIRC without going into exotic weapons.
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Paired kukri is my favorite. Not because of damage, but because of the critical range. Once you take Improved Critical (kukri) you will be rolling critical hits multiple times in a combat. My group uses the Critical Hit deck, so the critical hits punch hard and do more than damage.
On top of that, the critical feats are amazing. My favorite is Bleeding Critical, which stacks with itself. While there are foes immune to bleed damage, I love the idea of turning around in the middle of a fight and leaving someone bleeding out to death.
hammer and sickle ;-)
Paired kukri is my favorite. Not because of damage, but because of the critical range. Once you take Improved Critical (kukri) you will be rolling critical hits multiple times in a combat. My group uses the Critical Hit deck, so the critical hits punch hard and do more than damage.
On top of that, the critical feats are amazing. My favorite is Bleeding Critical, which stacks with itself. While there are foes immune to bleed damage, I love the idea of turning around in the middle of a fight and leaving someone bleeding out to death.
That reminds me that I need to FAQ that. I was never sure that ability was supposed to stack with itself. New thread being created soon.
But when you're using a great sword, you can't make an off-hand attack as it's a two-handed weapon. But hey, if your GM lets you get away with it...From the PRD
Armor Spikes: You can have spikes added to your armor, which allow you to deal extra piercing damage (see “spiked armor” on Table: Weapons) on a successful grapple attack. The spikes count as a martial weapon. If you are not proficient with them, you take a –4 penalty on grapple checks when you try to use them. You can also make a regular melee attack (or off-hand attack) with the spikes, and they count as a light weapon in this case. (You can't also make an attack with armor spikes if you have already made an attack with another off-hand weapon, and vice versa.) An enhancement bonus to a suit of armor does not improve the spikes' effectiveness, but the spikes can be made into magic weapons in their own right.Armour spikes are a light martial weapon.
Edited:
I love it because if you can't make your full attacks, you are still able to deal impressive single attack damage.
OH WHY did you start tolling, its total bull. Site source from a Dev or Paizo official or don't bother arguing the rules.
You can still kick with armor spikes, they are available to attack even when your hands are not free. You would need to use TWF or take the normal penalties for attacks. Its not the best combo in the game, so I only wonder why people keep arguing this.
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That reminds me that I need to FAQ that. I was never sure that ability was supposed to stack with itself. New thread being created soon.... My favorite is Bleeding Critical, which stacks with itself. While there are foes immune to bleed damage, I love the idea of turning around in the middle of a fight and leaving someone bleeding out to death.
Edit: switched over to the other discussion.
My favorite is going all fighter, focusing on the Critical feats, and wielding twin kukris. I just love the idea of it.
Full Attack
>Crit twice
>>Ha - not only did I hurt you, but now you are also sickened and exhausted.
>>>Ha HA! More than just sickened and exhausted, you are now also blinded and deafened for life!
The only two weapon fighting character I have actually played is double sickles.
Short swords.
1) Two weapons, one feat (Weapon Focus) to shore up the bad BAB progression for rogues,
2) Both are light weapons! No hidden penalties for wielding one in the off-hand,
3) I can shout out my rogue-ish catch-phrase with each swing: "I don't get mad...I get STABBY™!" more often!
4)I can grab a handful of the same dice (d6) for rolling awesome wpn+sneak attack damage...no fiddling around for d8's then d6's and whatnot.
(Bonus Points if you know where the catch-phrase came from)
It might not count, but a Monk of the Empty hand wielding a Scythe has been etched into my mind for a while now. I probably watched too much Soul Eater! :)
I don't know why, but I like the idea of two blunt weapons or a quarterstaff over edged weapons in real life. In game though, I think it's a tie between Fighting Fans and Kukri.
for me it depends on the character. For about any dwarf going twf it's usually Dwarven waraxe and a shield. Elves, Humans, and other longshanks get the @ bladed sword if they have a feat free or shortswords if not. Rogue types I heavily favor daggers, Partially because I have a DM that let me use a custom magic item set of bracers that constantly create and enchant short lived daggers that I could throw like mad when needed.
Asta
PSY
Short swords.
1) Two weapons, one feat (Weapon Focus) to shore up the bad BAB progression for rogues,
2) Both are light weapons! No hidden penalties for wielding one in the off-hand,
3) I can shout out my rogue-ish catch-phrase with each swing: "I don't get mad...I get STABBY™!" more often!
4)I can grab a handful of the same dice (d6) for rolling awesome wpn+sneak attack damage...no fiddling around for d8's then d6's and whatnot.
(Bonus Points if you know where the catch-phrase came from)
2 daggers - for some of the same reasons listed above. Can be used as at rage also.
1) Two weapons, one feat (Weapon Focus) to shore up the bad BAB progression for rogues,
2) Both are light weapons! No hidden penalties for wielding one in the off-hand,
3) I can shout out my rogue-ish catch-phrase with each swing: "I don't get mad...I get STABBY™!" more often!
4)I can grab a handful of the same dice (d6) for rolling awesome wpn+sneak attack damage...no fiddling around for d8's then d6's and whatnot.
(Bonus Points if you know where the catch-phrase came from)
Double Gladius...works with Shortsword feats and allows either slashing or Piercing Damage
Depends on the class/race.
Dwarf-Dwarven Urgosh. Martial weapon that can be TWF or TWO Handed. And makes weapon fcs/spl apply to both ends.
Half-Orc- Double Axe. Martial weapon that can be TWF or TWO Handed. And makes weapon fcs/spl apply to both ends.
Any other race? Generally Scimitar/Cestus. Lets you TWF or just two hand the scimitar when you move.
Exceptions- TWWarrrior archetype- can treat med offhand weapons as light AND twf as a standard action. Dual Scimitars for crit fishing.
But when you're using a great sword, you can't make an off-hand attack as it's a two-handed weapon. But hey, if your GM lets you get away with it...OH WHY did you start tolling, its total bull. Site source from a Dev or Paizo official or don't bother arguing the rules.
You can still kick with armor spikes, they are available to attack even when your hands are not free. You would need to use TWF or take the normal penalties for attacks. Its not the best combo in the game, so I only wonder why people keep arguing this.
Cite. The word you're looking for is cite, not site.
Also, TWF specifically refers to a full round attack made with one weapon in your primary hand and a second weapon in your off-hand. No material is present for the use of a two-hander. You can't use two-handers and get the benefit of the TWF feats. Read the book.
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Even better if you can get a sun blade or two. :)
Exactly! Best TWF combo, a sun blade in one hand and another sun blade in the other!
(Well, if you can't get lightsabers, anyway...)
My favorite TWF fighter used a quarterstaff. I know the weapon isn't great, and others have better damage, better crit range, and/or better crit modifier... But being a fighter, you get to deal melee damage anyway, and beating up epic monsters with a piece of wood just adds to awesome.
hammer and sickle ;-)
+1
Had a TWF Ranger once with a Bear named "Misha" Don't remember the Ranger's name.
Man, I loved that bear.
I will not attempt to prove this mathematically, but I think that sneak attack is the only way to make TWF viable (unless you're sword and board, but that's another conversation). The improved % chance to hit and increased damage done on every hit makes a two handed weapon superior.
As far as combinations, the double Wakizashi's are unrivaled!!!
Anything that provides a nice source of non-strength damage (Cavalier's/Samurai's challenge, the Paladin's Smite Evil, Ranger's favored enemies, etc) is a fairly good choice for two-weapon fighting.
2 daggers - for some of the same reasons listed above. Can be used as at rage also.Short swords.
1) Two weapons, one feat (Weapon Focus) to shore up the bad BAB progression for rogues,
2) Both are light weapons! No hidden penalties for wielding one in the off-hand,
3) I can shout out my rogue-ish catch-phrase with each swing: "I don't get mad...I get STABBY™!" more often!
4)I can grab a handful of the same dice (d6) for rolling awesome wpn+sneak attack damage...no fiddling around for d8's then d6's and whatnot.
(Bonus Points if you know where the catch-phrase came from)
+1
Handaxe and heavy spiked shield.
Or Battleaxe and light spiked shield.
Axes and pointy shields are cool.
Although I had a lot of fun with my keen scimitar heavy spike shield ranger.
(Well, if you can't get lightsabers, anyway...)
Brilliant Energy Sun Blade and Brilliant Energy Sun Blade? ^_-
I GM two players who TWF. One is a fighter with a khopesh/morningstar mix. He does it partially for theme as his character is from a Mesopotamian-esque nation, and partially two get all three damage types in one turn to overcome DR. The other is a rogue with twin short swords who is infuriated by rolling really low on every attack.
