Instead of going for scimitar and dervish dance, you could go for an aldori dueling sword using the kensai's free exotic weapon proficiency, or use the half-elf ancestral arms alternate racial trait to gain proficiency. It has the same damage as a longsword but can be finessed if you have EWP. Then get str to 13 and use power attack for extra damage. When you get a chance, get it enchanted up to +1 and Agile.
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Get yourself a weapon with the Agile property from the Pathfinder Society Field Guide.
That's basically Dervish Dance without having to be a damn generic-scimitar-wielder-n°2863, and lets you add your Dex to damage instead of Str.
If you want to do combat maneuvers, also get a Dueling weapon from the same PFS supplement, that adds a Luck bonus to Trip/Disarm equal to twice your weapon's enhancement bonus... in addition to said bonus.
Black Blade Kensi Aldori Dueling Sword get agile property asap.
Black Blade Kensi Aldori Dueling Sword get agile property asap.
You can't add agile or any other property to a Black Blade.
Why the Aldori Dueling Sword, when as a Half Elf you could get a Elven Curve Blade for a 1d10 18-20 x2 that is finessable?
Mind to quote the relevant RAW ? Because I've already seen this discussion, and this wasn't the final conclusion.Black Blade Kensi Aldori Dueling Sword get agile property asap.You can't add agile or any other property to a Black Blade.
I've seen it in numerous threads, have there been any concusions? If you can produce a link with an official ruling by one of the games developers (JJ if he's said anything) then I will retract my statement.
I don't think you can use a two handed weapon as a magus, right? You could just weapon finesse with a rapier, add agile on it later, and enjoy the high to hit.
You're right you can't, you need a hand free.
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I've seen it in numerous threads, have there been any concusions? If you can produce a link with an official ruling by one of the games developers (JJ if he's said anything) then I will retract my statement.Mind to quote the relevant RAW ? Because I've already seen this discussion, and this wasn't the final conclusion.Black Blade Kensi Aldori Dueling Sword get agile property asap.You can't add agile or any other property to a Black Blade.
Please do so, instead of asking me to prove that you are wrong. You were the first to affirm your stance, show the RAW.
Until further information, the black blade is by RAW a magic weapon. As such, feel free to spend gold and get enhancements on it. Just pray that you don't miss your crafting, that you will have enough money to follow the natural progression of the blade (hint : it will cost a lot in comparison to your WBL), and be ready to find out that it will be useless in the end, since your black blade natural progression + your temporary arcane pool bonus gives you a final +10 weapon.So any money spent on your blackblade is effectively lost when reaching higher levels.
And, honestly, this isn't going to break the game. We already allow a magus to add Agile and Dueling to his weapons with his arcane pool as a houserule, and it worked fine to make any concept work for the player.
Houseruling it that way is fine Maxximilius but this is for PFS play.
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I've seen it in numerous threads, have there been any concusions? If you can produce a link with an official ruling by one of the games developers (JJ if he's said anything) then I will retract my statement.Mind to quote the relevant RAW ? Because I've already seen this discussion, and this wasn't the final conclusion.Black Blade Kensi Aldori Dueling Sword get agile property asap.You can't add agile or any other property to a Black Blade.Please do so, instead of asking me to prove that you are wrong. You were the first to affirm your stance, show the RAW.
Until further information, the black blade is by RAW a magic weapon. As such, feel free to spend gold and get enhancements on it. Just pray that you don't miss your crafting, that you will have enough money to follow the natural progression of the blade (hint : it will cost a lot in comparison to your WBL), and be ready to find out that it will be useless in the end, since your black blade natural progression + your temporary arcane pool bonus gives you a final +10 weapon.
So any money spent on your blackblade is effectively lost when reaching higher levels.And, honestly, this isn't going to break the game. We already allow a magus to add Agile and Dueling to his weapons with his arcane pool as a houserule, and it worked fine to make any concept work for the player.
its the non standard ego progression on an intelligent weapon, since there is no way to calculate its ego progression, you cant add abilities
i would reccomend strength and a katana.
you can use a katana 1handed as a kensai, or 2handed.
free hand? taking one of your hands off a weapon and putting it back on are free actions you can do in the same turn. meaning you can with a bit of free action finangling, combine a 2handed weapon with spellstrike/spell combat.
a katana is also a valid target for black blades.
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The only houserule here is the Agile and Dueling part added with the arcane pool. Please spare your straws in your next answer and actually quote the relevant part forbidding the black blade to be enhanced.just curios, what happens to its ego when you add new abilities?
Love happens.
There's no reason not to just stick to rapier. Focus on getting your damage through your spells rather than your weapon, that's what the magus does best anyways. Sure, it might not be quite as powerful as the dervish magus, but you could still build a really good character with a rapier.
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Spellstrike, yes, you can combine a two-handed weapon with it as you describe. Taking your hand off a weapon to cast spells is certainly no action, or wizards with a staff wouldn't be able to cast spells. Likewise, putting your hand back on a weapon as you attack. However, the Spell Combat rule explicitly states you can only use it with a light or one-handed weapon and a free hand, even if the spell being cast requires no somatic components. So a weapon that can go from two-handed to one handed, such as a katana, scimitar, dueling sword, even bastard sword, would be optimal. That way if you don't get the opportunity for a full attack, you can cast and then spellstrike for an attack with a spell attached.
The best thing about spellstrike though is that your spell crits if your weapon attack crits. So a 18-20 weapon is preferred, that you can use your arcane pool to gain keen or enchant it with keen, or take improved critical.
I really REALLY really wish the Longsword, not the Scimitar, was the most statistically powerful Magus weapon.
I really REALLY really wish the Longsword, not the Scimitar, was the most statistically powerful Magus weapon.Your wish is granted:
Longsword 15 gp 1d6 1d8 19–20/x2 — 4 lbs. S — CRB
Gambit Long Sword - 15 gp 1d4 1d6 18–20/x2 — 4 lbs. S — CRB
(Gambit Long Sword counts as a Scimitar for all purposes other than visual appearance)
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You can reskin anything to suit the flavour you want.
Maybe the Gambit Longsword is a different shape, or maybe its used with a different combat style focussing more of slashing than stabbing and thus deals less damage but criticals are more deadly?
If you don't like the fluff reskin it. So long as it doesn't affect the rules it doesn't really matter.
Can we make my magic missile where I shoot 5 cute, furry bunnies out of my fingers that all have a razor sharp force carrot sticking business end side out of their mouth that does 1d4+1 damage too.....can I can I???
It goes way beyond a simple refluffing in one persons home game. I think I stated my desire pretty succinctly, my desire is for the Longsword (the one in the Pathfinder Core Rulebook, the classic D&D sword, one that elves like to play with, elves who were once by default all fighter/mages, fighter/mages being the inspiration for the Pathfinder Magus class) to be the most statistically powerful Magus weapon.
Did you like elves and longswords um, I meal dungeons and dragons so much?
There are enough classes/builds where the longsword still is above par.
Why can't there be one class where another slashing weapon is better?
I'm really bored with wielding a scimitar - it seems a lot of builds end up using them for the Dervish Dance feat.
Are there some viable (for PFS play) options to the scimitar for a melee focused magus? I'm planning on building a Tiefling magus (have the racial boon) and was probably going to stay as the standard tiefling (so +2 Dex and Int -2 Cha though I'm open to suggestions for of racial heritages that would work well). I am also thinking about some levels of Lore Warden for the many bonus feats and the melee focus (I want to be heavily melee based with spells used to augment my melee effectiveness)
I'm also considering the hexcrafter archetype but may choose kensai for the melee focus.
Thanks!
Play the Kensai, choose a light or finessable weapon and weapon finesse, then as many other suggested enchant it with the Agile Property. You won't need to multiclass, magi are not that feat-starved, nor a kensai needs more melee focus than it has. Whatever you need to melee, the kensai has it.
Use Variant Tiefling Abilities and ask your GM if you can choose your ability (instead of rolling the d%), just a few that you will like:- You have oversized limbs, allowing you to use Large weapons without penalty.
- You gain an additional +2 racial bonus to your Intelligence score.
- Your skin is unnaturally tough, granting you a +1 natural bonus to your AC.
- You receive +1 bonus hit point per level.
And here some of my favorites:
- You do not need to sleep. You are not immune to sleep effects.
- As a full-round action, you can bleed and collect 5 sp worth of precious blood per day.
- You can speak to all birds/insects.
- You heal yourself of double the normal amount of damage by resting.
EDIT:
It goes way beyond a simple refluffing in one persons home game. I think I stated my desire pretty succinctly, my desire is for the Longsword (the one in the Pathfinder Core Rulebook, the classic D&D sword, one that elves like to play with, elves who were once by default all fighter/mages, fighter/mages being the inspiration for the Pathfinder Magus class) to be the most statistically powerful Magus weapon.
In one way it is... Possible. Magi have problems bypassing SR past level 10. Well in a high level campaign, you can choose the Rod Wielder magus arcana to add the magus' Int modifier to overcome enemies SR while spellstriking with a rod. The best rod to use in combat that I know is the Rod of Lordly Might which can turn into a Longsword (use arcane pool to enhance the sword). The longsword here is the most suitable weapon for the magus.
Also with the feat Iomedaean Sword Oath and the Kensai class feature Fighter Training you may have a fighter level equal to magus level +1...
First I did not mean to derail the thread with a rules question about blackblades. I was just suggesting a des magus build that might be fun. If you are not going blackblade but are going Kensi I would resubmit my recomendation for the Aldori dueling sword. As Kensi you would get the exotic proficency I believe making it a 1 hand finessible wep that deals 1d8.
I understand your pain. The problem, the 800lb gorilla in the room, is that Paizo made a feat that's simply too good. That made one of the most valuable attributes in the game, even more so.
I disagree, Dervish dance specifically says one handed and the other hand has to be free, it's excellently balanced but it should be for any one handed finessable weapon. That character won't be touching a TWF or 2H fighter IMO.
Agile enchantment is worse, IMO, because that does allow you to begin to really compare to the above fighter mentioned.
I understand your pain. The problem, the 800lb gorilla in the room, is that Paizo made a feat that's simply too good. That made one of the most valuable attributes in the game, even more so.It goes way beyond a simple refluffing in one persons home game. I think I stated my desire pretty succinctly, my desire is for the Longsword (the one in the Pathfinder Core Rulebook, the classic D&D sword, one that elves like to play with, elves who were once by default all fighter/mages, fighter/mages being the inspiration for the Pathfinder Magus class) to be the most statistically powerful Magus weapon.
Why does it go beyond refluffing?
Unless you're saying that there should be more choice of weapons that are balanced rather than a few which are clearly much better than all the others.
That I would agree with!
But its not really suited to the D&D mechanics.
But that didn't appear to be what you were saying. You were either saying long sword should be buffed or scimitar nerfed. Not quite sure which...
Both...neither, I dunno, all I meant was it would be more appropriate for the longsword to be intrinsically connected to the Magus in the minds of players as the go to weapon. Maybe I'm tired of everything being over crunchified, maybe this would make a good weapons list
Dagger 1d4
Short Bladed/Hafted 1d6
Long Bladed/Hafted 1d8
Polearm 1d10
Two Handed 1d12
And all crits are on a roll of 20 only and do double damage. Then specific weapons become solely about a characters flavor.
Given that agile is a +1 weapon enhancement it's not as huge a deal as people want to make of it. Likely dervish dance should apply to every finessable weapon, but c'est la vie.
a +1 enchantment eats of +1 out of a limit of +10, those little +1's add up
it delays your chances to get generic DR bypassing plusses by a huge progressively growing financial cost
the only weapon that can compete with the scimitar is an agile wakazashi and they are still pretty far behind.
the magus only has 2 real options
be really feat starved and use a scimitar
be attribute/gold starved an use an alternative weapon
I blame the magus shackling spell critical damage solely to a weapon's threat range more than I blame Dervish Dancer for the cookie-cutter magus.
Dervish Dance is fine, in of itself.
But when you combine all the factors:
- Spellstrike spells critical threat based on weapon critical threat range, but remain x2 crit always, so any Magus who doesn't give up Spellstrike has a clear reason to prefer 18-20/x2 weapons over anything else.
- A Magus spends approximately 1/3 of his career (and more like 1/2 of a typical campaign) in light armor or less (most archetypes reduce armor proficiency if they affect it). This makes Dex, already an appealing stat, all the more appealing.
- Now Dervish Dance comes in, offering for two feats and two skill ranks, the ability to use Dex not only for hit, but also damage, on a one-handed weapon with the 18-20 crit range. And the required empty hand feature is essentially irrelevant.
Even if Spellstrike also conferred the crit multiplier on the spell, 19-20/x2 weapons would generally not be of interest in the optimization sense, as +1 damage per hit doesn't general compare against the higher chance of a spell crit. It would, at least, make x3 weapons appealing.
If the Magus had earlier access to medium or heavy armor, he might be less likely to go for the Dex route. That wouldn't inherently affect weapon choices, but it would at least affect how many go for Dex.
As things stand, we've got, essentially, a perfect storm that leads to the Dervish Dance Magus and the Agile weapon Magus as almost all of them.
Dervish Dance is fine, in of itself.
lol.
In PFS play, are you required to buy the appropriate book to use the DD feat?
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I understand your pain. The problem, the 800lb gorilla in the room, is that Paizo made a feat that's simply too good. That made one of the most valuable attributes in the game, even more so.I disagree, Dervish dance specifically says one handed and the other hand has to be free, it's excellently balanced but it should be for any one handed finessable weapon. That character won't be touching a TWF or 2H fighter IMO.
Agile enchantment is worse, IMO, because that does allow you to begin to really compare to the above fighter mentioned.
Actually, I think making it Scimitar only was quite an effective balance choice - why?
Because it's not a light or finessable weapon. That means you can't use it with Piranha Strike and, if you want the option of sacrificing to-hit for damage have to use Power Attack and therefore cannot completely dump Strength.
For a feat that would otherwise make Strength almost obsolete (only relevant for encumbrance purposes, and that can be negated using items as well), I think that's actually quite a clever little trick.
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Have you considered a brief dip into Flowing monk for access to the Temple Sword and Improved Trip as a bonus feat? D8 weapon, adds to trip, could still spell combat, would net you couple AC points and flurry if you can get by without armor. Plus you could take Furious Stomp later to get a free AOO when the trip goes off. Not a bad net gain. You will need a decent strength...but it could be really fun.