Is it as simple as casting `Lesser Restoration` the next morning to remove the Fatigue?
Please advise.
By RAW spells that remove fatigue or make you immune to fatigue. In practice I'd argue that sane DMs shouldn't allow a person to be awake 24/7/365 without suffering from insanity :)
I would think lesser restoration would also help get rid of mental fatigue, which is what can lead to madness.
Lichdom
Or any other kind of undead.
While becoming a Lich sounds interesting, I doubt my LG diety would approve.
Mountain Dew? Might have some ill effects in the long run though.
I'm an Elf...if that matters.
By RAW spells that remove fatigue or make you immune to fatigue. In practice I'd argue that sane DMs shouldn't allow a person to be awake 24/7/365 without suffering from insanity :)
So RAI you'd think a house rule saying that you become Insane after a week or so of clearing the Fatigue?
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In the first part of Rise of the Runelords there is a goblin druid who uses the Lesser Restoration spell to avoid the effects of lack of sleep. I think I could use a few castings myself. In fact, potions of Lesser Restoration would likely be a best-selling item in every city in the world.
If you don't like the idea of transforming into a lich to stay awake all the time, well, there's always the Starstone.
I was thinking black beauties, but the whole insanity issue comes up after a while, not to mention they might be hard to come by in a fantasy world... and you DO build up an immunity or resistance to them over time... I discovered that one year at Strategicon.
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I am more interested in how it works for overland movement. Especially for a Paladin using a mercy to remove Fatigue.
So say the Paladin with only a +2 charisma bonus and of 3rd level wants to move his armored self as far as he can go. He has Lay on hands and Mercy of removing Fatigue. In armor he moves 20 ft per round, or 2 miles per hour of walking, 4 miles per hour of hustling. He can lay on hands 3 times a day.
Each hour he uses a swift action to lay on hands on himself to remove fatigue and 1 pt of non lethal damage while hustling. So for 4 hours of movement he goes 16 miles.
Now instead he wants to force march. He uses his lay on hands to counter act the non lethal damage, each being 1d6, for each hour of walking he does beyond 8. So he can theoretically walk for 11 hours with no ill effects. Covering 22 miles.
Now lets up the character to say 10th level and say he put the bonus stat increase into charisma giving him a +1 Charisma. He can now lay on hands 8 times a day.
So to hustle, he can do so for 9 hours. This gives him 36 miles he can cover on foot during this time.
Forced marching, well he can do that for 17 hours. Yet it only gives him 34 miles traveled.
Obviously at some point he no longer chooses to force march and just jogs in full plate to where he needs to go.
Also if he is mounted, well the Paladin can just use this ability on his horse. A heavy horse can usually go 5 miles per hour, i infer from the rules that a hustle would be 10 miles per hour. So at 3rd level you can ride that horse for four hours covering 40 miles in that time. The usual amount of distance a heavy horse can cover in 8 hours. Or you can force march the poor beast for 11 hours and cover 55 miles in that time.
At 10th level with 9 lay on hands, you can hustle for 10 hours or 100 miles. Force marching gives you only a meager 85 miles covered.
The horse has no ill effects of this, because of the lay on hands ability and the fatigue mercy.
Oh and if you must need to get there even faster, well the heal mount spell does the same thing for you. You just have to use that one on a Paladins mount.
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As far as getting by with no sleep. Well the a Mage can always cast this on others, so as to keep his meat shield awake while he sleeps. It is worthless for the Mage to do it to himself. Why? Well simply put if he doesn't rest he doesn't get those spells back. Might as well take a load off and catch a few zzz's.
Ring of Sustenance, FTW!
A Ring of Sustenance still requires that you sleep for 2 hours.
I'm an Elf...wait that's 3.5 nevermind.
I'm totally failing to find the rules for what happens if you stay up all night... But if you just get fatigued, then a human with the Heart of the Fields alternate racial trait never needs to sleep as once per day they can just negate the fatigue. This is far off into the absurd land of RAW though and probably would never happen in a real game ;)
By RAW spells that remove fatigue or make you immune to fatigue. In practice I'd argue that sane DMs shouldn't allow a person to be awake 24/7/365 without suffering from insanity :)So RAI you'd think a house rule saying that you become Insane after a week or so of clearing the Fatigue?
I think I'd do something like this. If it was becoming disruptive I would house-rule something like after 3 days make a DC 10 will save, a new save every 8 hours with an increasing + 1 difficulty.
Love your maths Jester, I'm cutting and pasting for future reference. Although I've never known a lipstick to get bored and cause mischief. (A+ for maths, D- for spelling).
In terms of preventing ill effects in game, I think lesser restoration does it. However, the OP asked 'how do you stay up all night'. Most of us will have done this a few times in our lives. If you're busy and have things to do it's not that big a problem. If you're sitting at home with nothing much to do, you'll get tired and fall asleep, you'll get cold and hungry and you'll feel a bit rubbish so you'll want to fall asleep. I would probably rule that it's a fort and a will save (sans something actually keeping you awake) every hour to stay awake at increasing difficulties. One thing I've never done just because it's a trope of fantasy game is give players a hard time over 'we keep watch over night', but having actually done this at some live role play events, unless you have someone to talk to you're very likely to fall asleep and your ability to measure time without a wrist watch is virtually nil. In a medieval environment with no paper back novels and no tv there's very little to keep your mind active to stave off sleep.
... I think I'd do something like this. If it was becoming disruptive I would house-rule something like after 3 days make a DC 10 will save, a new save every 8 hours with an increasing + 1 difficulty.
I believe the army (from several countries) did some research on this during the cold war. they key point is keeping them from deep sleep where the dreaming state starts. If I remember correctly though it was longer than 3 days (5 is what comes to mind, but I may be wrong). Once the problems start though the subjects degenerate pretty quickly into hallucinations and other dementia.
However, if you also screw with the sensory feed most subjects lost reality very quickly. I think it was 24 - 48 hours. Since they had already voluntereed for the amilitary it was considered implied consent. Just , "You 90 guys go in that building and do what the guys in the white coats tell you to do." It was an interesting and disturbing read.
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Walk: A character can walk 8 hours in a day of travel without a problem. Walking for longer than that can wear him out (see Forced March, below).
Forced March: In a day of normal walking, a character walks for 8 hours. The rest of the daylight time is spent making and breaking camp, resting, and eating.A character can walk for more than 8 hours in a day by making a forced march. For each hour of marching beyond 8 hours, a Constitution check (DC 10, +2 per extra hour) is required. If the check fails, the character takes 1d6 points of nonlethal damage. A character who takes any nonlethal damage from a forced march becomes fatigued. Eliminating the nonlethal damage also eliminates the fatigue. It's possible for a character to march into unconsciousness by pushing himself too hard.
Rules are pretty simple about it. After 8 hours you are doing Forced March and rolling begins.
So... everyone are cool with the fact that divine magic can cure blindness, disease, etc, and even bring people back from the dead... but using magic to stay awake is where immersion breaks?
Also, it calls for rest, not sleep. To demand they need sleep is an interpretation, and thus a house-rule.
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Huh. I just noticed the Forced March rules don't apply any modifier to the Con check other than how many hours straight you've marched. So if a PC marched for, say, 12 hours, then failed his DC 18 Con check, and promptly drank a potion of lesser restoration, he'd need to make a DC 20 Con check an hour later. Whether the PC takes nonlethal damage, or becomes fatigued, is irrelevant to the DC of the Con check. Now, many GMs may houserule that once you're no longer fatigued, the 8-hour clock resets (I've done so myself), the RAW doesn't.
In Carrion Hill,
Lichdom is your best choice. Sure, your diety may not approve, but what has your diety done for you lately?
Hm.
This is a house rule my table uses, but i will share it anyways. We consider the fatigued state from lack of sleep as a 'permanent condition' until you actually get rest and so lesser restoration and other effects that remove fatigue will give reprieve for an hour when used. This allows the condition to be bypassed and remain functional for periods of time (think of the spell/magic as being a shot of energy)but not remove the need for sleep entirely.
We also allow the '4th level:Restoration' and above negate the need entirely. Yet to do so you are trading a gp cost in expensive material component, or burning a 6th level spell slot (Heal for example.). Our group found this a reasonable and acceptable middleground.
Note: I said it was a house rule, not RAW.
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The problem with the whole "no sleep" thing is that technically speaking, if you remove the physical exhaustion, you'd be absolutely fine, no insanity or whatever (that actually happens as a result of brain irregularities caused by a disrupted sleep cycle, which I assume lesser restoration or fatigue immunity items would counter). The only problem, well, two problems, are the following:
1.) The brain naturally fluctuates its wave patterns, even if you stay awake. In other words, people who stay awake long enough will actually experience the brain waves normally associated with sleep. Their brain will basically start shutting down while they're still walking around (but this is extreme cases, and again, magic probably circumvents this).
2.) Nobody knows what sleep is actually for, all in all. We know its too keep your body running energy-efficient, but the trouble is, it also has other benefits which scientists haven't really pin-pointed. For instance, some studies indicate that your brain uses the time you get to sleep in order to help you store the memories of the day into your long-term memory, while others believe that there are other uses, so since we don't know what happens when you deprive someone of sleep, yet still give their body enough energy to function...meh...
On the other hand, it could be a great plot-hook, especially since magic exists. For example, it could be that dreams are necessary for some sort of cosmic balance, and that mortals need to dream to "refresh" their souls, or some such. Perhaps eschewing sleep while alive might raise the ire of a dream god or goddess, or perhaps it would cause your soul to wither, or your spellcaster to lose magic because they need the power of the dream world to commune with the gods/memorize spells (going off the whole sleep=memory shtick from above), or even attract the attention of living nightmares and denizens of leng, who would be attracted to anomalies in the dream universe thingy...
But with knowledge so far, there is no RAW for it, as stated, but it should be fine to house-rule any of the above or whatever you want...
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I stand corrected for the divine spell casters. They are locked into the one hour meditation at the set point in order to regain their spells. So for them sleep of course is not required.
For Arcane Casters...see pg 218 in the Core Rulebook right under Rest. It clearly states SLEEP for 8 hrs is required to regain their spells. However it also mentions that if for some reason sleep is not needed that a restful calm must take place. The section goes more into what they can or cannot do in order to regain spells...which is basically want spells, do nothing.
The house rule I would impose however is simply magic (both types) takes a toll on the mind. The greater the spell, the greater the need for actual sleep. Think of a clean chalk board. You write your spells on the chalk board. When you cast you use an eraser to wipe the writing off, but leave chalk residue behind clouding the board. Only way the board truly becomes clean however is using a wet cloth and wiping the area clean. Thus the way I see magic and sleep.
Also has anyone actually looked that the definitions of exhaustion and fatigue? Both conditions only affect Str and Dex, not Int and Wis (See pgs 567 of the Core Rulebook). Since these are both physical effects I would say Lesser Restoration would not prevent the need for sleep. It would only repair any mental conditional effects (i.e temporary stat loss). Even Greater Restoration I have a very hard time thinking it would prevent the need for sleep. Both spells are intended for repair only, returning the body back to its natural healthy state. Otherwise you might as well say that a migraine pill not only fixes your headache, but also keeps you up 48 hours at the top of your game. You might feel physically refreshed after the spell is cast, but would still feel the urge to go to sleep.
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So... everyone are cool with the fact that divine magic can cure blindness, disease, etc, and even bring people back from the dead... but using magic to stay awake is where immersion breaks?
I do think magic is possible to prevent sleep, and even possibly keeping any negative effects away. However none of the current spells listed would be able to do so, exception being Wish. A "Red Bull" spell would need to be researched and created. However such a spell needs to have a limitation/penalty of some kind associated with it to prevent power gaming. There was a spell in 3.5 (I think..might be an earlier version) called Nap. It did not prevent sleep but did allow you to nap for an hour to regain the ability to memorize a new complement of spells. You could not cast is again however within a 24 hour time frame, and required 8 hours of sleep (4 hours meditation if you were an elf).
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Love your maths Jester, I'm cutting and pasting for future reference. Although I've never known a lipstick to get bored and cause mischief. (A+ for maths, D- for spelling).
I was up late. Sadly I was in fact using spell checker.
PS. That also is one of my pet peeves. I have since fixed it. Thanks for pointing it out.